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Continuous still design

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  • maxwelldodge
    Anyone know of a source for good tech info on continuous still design? John
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 8, 2009
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      Anyone know of a source for good tech info on continuous still design?

      John
    • jamesonbeam1
      Riku should know. Vino es Veritas, Jim aka Waldo.
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 9, 2009
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        Riku should know.

        Vino es Veritas,
        Jim aka Waldo.

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "maxwelldodge" <maxwelldodge@...> wrote:
        >
        > Anyone know of a source for good tech info on continuous still design?
        >
        > John
        >
      • abbababbaccc
        I know a good practical example of a continuous stripper. I also know how to achieve azeotrope and I know how to remove heads in continuous system. What I
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 9, 2009
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          I know a good practical example of a continuous stripper. I also know how to achieve azeotrope and I know how to remove heads in continuous system. What I haven't tried is to put all that together and to get them work in practise. In principle we are looking at 2-3 column setup with some electronics controls. It also gets quite expensive and requires trial and error to make it work. Are you really quite sure that you want a continuous system instead of a upscaled batch distillation equipment?

          Slainte, Riku

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Riku should know.
          >
          > Vino es Veritas,
          > Jim aka Waldo.
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "maxwelldodge" <maxwelldodge@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Anyone know of a source for good tech info on continuous still design?
          > >
          > > John
          > >
          >
        • tgfoitwoods
          Riku, You d remember better than I (hell, *anyone* would), but there used to be a guy on the yahoo distillers list that was successful using a continuous still
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 9, 2009
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            Riku,

            You'd remember better than I (hell, *anyone* would), but there used to be a guy on the yahoo distillers list that was successful using a continuous still design off of Tony Ackland's site. Admittedly, his continuous input was once-distilled low wines from stripper batches.

            Anybody remember him?

            If you know a continuous stripper design, couldn't a separate continuous stripper feed a reservoir that fed a separate continuous refluxer?

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
            >
            > I know a good practical example of a continuous stripper. I also know how to achieve azeotrope and I know how to remove heads in continuous system. What I haven't tried is to put all that together and to get them work in practise. In principle we are looking at 2-3 column setup with some electronics controls. It also gets quite expensive and requires trial and error to make it work. Are you really quite sure that you want a continuous system instead of a upscaled batch distillation equipment?
            >
            > Slainte, Riku
            >
            ----snip----
            > > >
            > > > Anyone know of a source for good tech info on continuous still design?
            > > >
            > > > John
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • gff_stwrt
            Hi, Maxwell and folks, To me it seems that the biggest timewaster with batch distillation, especially with a pot still, is because you have to stop the
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 9, 2009
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              Hi, Maxwell and folks,
              To me it seems that the biggest timewaster with batch distillation, especially with a pot still, is because you have to stop the process, open up the boiler,empty it out, refill it with cold wash, and seal it, before you can start again.

              So, to me, the most efficient installation would be something like the very old pictures you see (couldn't find it on the web but it's there) of a pot still that works like this:

              The boiler has a fill pipe with a tap, and that comes from a tank which the lyne arm goes through to pre-heat the wash. The boiler has a tap for emptying.

              So when the wash is spent you turn off the flame, empty the boiler through the tap, fill it again with pre-warmed wash, turn on the flame again. Elapsed time less than five minutes to empty and fill, and not long before the warm wash is being distilled again.

              And then if want vodka/ neutral spirit, you could use your reflux still. Perhaps after stripping through the pot still one or two more times so that there is not much to put through the reflux still.

              Much simpler than a continuous still. Maybe the oldies knew what they were doing.

              Regards,

              The Baker

              P.S. The big advantage of having completely separate pot and reflux stills, given electrical safety and so on, is that you can do both distillations at the one time, maybe doubling your effectiveness for the same investment of time. G.S.


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
              >
              > I know a good practical example of a continuous stripper. I also know how to achieve azeotrope and I know how to remove heads in continuous system. What I haven't tried is to put all that together and to get them work in practise. In principle we are looking at 2-3 column setup with some electronics controls. It also gets quite expensive and requires trial and error to make it work. Are you really quite sure that you want a continuous system instead of a upscaled batch distillation equipment?
              >
              > Slainte, Riku
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Riku should know.
              > >
              > > Vino es Veritas,
              > > Jim aka Waldo.
              > >
              > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "maxwelldodge" <maxwelldodge@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Anyone know of a source for good tech info on continuous still design?
              > > >
              > > > John
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • tgfoitwoods
              About 35 years ago, my James Bond Secret Squirrel magic disappearing still had those features, except for the preheating part. If you opened the drain valve
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 9, 2009
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                About 35 years ago, my James Bond Secret Squirrel magic disappearing still had those features, except for the preheating part. If you opened the drain valve and turned off the valve to the condenser, it would blow its spent wash out a washing-machine hose down a drain into a gully.

                Close the drain valve, open the condenser valve, open the fill valve and turn on the washing-machine pump to refill the boiler. The first time I shot that cold wash into a hot still, I was surprised at the vacuum created, sucking booze back out of the condenser.

                When I was through, it came apart to make a canning cooker, a .50-calliber ammo can, a garbage incinerator, a bunch of iron on my blacksmith's scrap pile, and some suspicious-looking copper pipe and valves.

                I was both proud *and* amused.

                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Maxwell and folks,
                > To me it seems that the biggest timewaster with batch distillation, especially with a pot still, is because you have to stop the process, open up the boiler,empty it out, refill it with cold wash, and seal it, before you can start again.
                >
                > So, to me, the most efficient installation would be something like the very old pictures you see (couldn't find it on the web but it's there) of a pot still that works like this:
                >
                > The boiler has a fill pipe with a tap, and that comes from a tank which the lyne arm goes through to pre-heat the wash. The boiler has a tap for emptying.
                >
                > So when the wash is spent you turn off the flame, empty the boiler through the tap, fill it again with pre-warmed wash, turn on the flame again. Elapsed time less than five minutes to empty and fill, and not long before the warm wash is being distilled again.
                >
                > And then if want vodka/ neutral spirit, you could use your reflux still. Perhaps after stripping through the pot still one or two more times so that there is not much to put through the reflux still.
                >
                > Much simpler than a continuous still. Maybe the oldies knew what they were doing.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > The Baker
                >
                ----snip----
              • abbababbaccc
                I think that was manu. He s nowadays hanging in AD and/or HD forums. If I m not mistaken he didn t quite get neutral azeotrope with his setup. The design at
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 10, 2009
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                  I think that was manu. He's nowadays hanging in AD and/or HD forums. If I'm not mistaken he didn't quite get neutral azeotrope with his setup. The design at Tony's site does not separate heads so it's more suited for fuel alcohol production.

                  But let's play a bit with the idea.

                  First of all we'll take a 110cm packed column and fill that with propak so that we can feed mash through it. The bottom 10cm forms a boiler with overflow and small heating element. 20cm from the bottom we have a temperature sensor. That sensor operates solenoid valve that feeds the mash to the top of the column. At the top we have a product condenser. The goal here is to keep the temperature at 99.8C. If it gets lower we'll stop feeding the mash. Such a stripper should be able to produce high 80s ABV while stripping off all the alcohols in the mash. Of course we could just use AFC but this is more accurate way of doing things.

                  Then we'll take another column that separates tails and produces azeotrope. This time about 140cm column filled with mesh/scrubbers. At the top we have a reflux condenser and boiler at the bottom as usual. The condensate from the stripper column is fed to about 30cm from the bottom of this column. At the top we'll install E-ARC that ensures azeotrope and keeps tails away from the top. Tails and water accumulate at the boiler and come off as overflow.

                  Now the product from this column is fed to the middle of a third column. This column could be about one meter high with mesh packing and boiler at the bottom. To the top we'll install E-ARC, but this time it is used for removing heads, not ethanol so we'll set it accordingly. What happens is heads components get to the top while ethanol flows to the boiler. Eventually the boiler fills and 95.6% ethanol will flow out from the boiler overflow.

                  As we can see this is starting to get quite complicated and actually would be better suited to advanced distillers group.

                  Slainte, Riku

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Riku,
                  >
                  > You'd remember better than I (hell, *anyone* would), but there used to be a guy on the yahoo distillers list that was successful using a continuous still design off of Tony Ackland's site. Admittedly, his continuous input was once-distilled low wines from stripper batches.
                  >
                  > Anybody remember him?
                  >
                  > If you know a continuous stripper design, couldn't a separate continuous stripper feed a reservoir that fed a separate continuous refluxer?
                  >
                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                  >
                  >
                • drjulianxyz
                  ... Sounds like picture in book series Foxfire ,on moonshining. Many libraries have this,or intralibrary loan,might be online. Good luck,DJ
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 12, 2009
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > So, to me, the most efficient installation would be something like the very old pictures you see (couldn't find it on the web but it's there) of a pot still that works like this:
                    Sounds like picture in book series "Foxfire",on moonshining.
                    Many libraries have this,or intralibrary loan,might be online.
                    Good luck,DJ
                  • Harry
                    ... the very old pictures you see (couldn t find it on the web but it s ... You mean this one? The Appalachian Blockade Still
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 12, 2009
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                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "drjulianxyz" <drjulianxyz@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" gff_stwrt@ wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > So, to me, the most efficient installation would be something like the very old pictures you see (couldn't find it on the web but it's there) of a pot still that works like this:
                      > Sounds like picture in book series "Foxfire",on moonshining.
                      > Many libraries have this,or intralibrary loan,might be online.
                      > Good luck,DJ
                      >


                       

                      You mean this one? 

                      The Appalachian Blockade Still

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/Harry/Untitled-1.gif
                      MOONSHINING AS A FINE ART  325
                       
                      PLATE 270  Refined to the ultimate, this version—Diagram A— of the Block-
                      ade Still works as follows: The steam (arrows) from the beer boiling in the
                      still (1) moves into the cap (2), through the cap arm (3), and into the dry or
                      "relay" barrel (5). Beer which bubbles over or "pukes" into the relay barrel is
                      returned to the still via the relay arm (4). From this barrel (usually a fifty-
                      gallon one which is mounted so that it slants slightly back toward the still), the
                      steam moves into the long thump rod (6) which carries it into the bottom of
                      the fifty-gallon thump barrel (7), and releases it to bubble up through the fresh
                      beer, which was placed there earlier via inlet (8)--now closed to keep the
                      steam enclosed in the system. The beer in this barrel is drained after each run
                      and replaced with fresh beer before the next. Picked up again at the top by the
                      short thump rod (9), the steam moves into the heater box or "pre-heater" (10)
                      which is also filled with fresh beer. Here the steam is not set loose, however,
                      but is forced through a double-walled ring (11) that stands about nine inches
                      high, is thirty-four to forty inches in diameter, and mounted so that it stands
                      about a half inch off the floor of the heater box. The top and bottom of the
                      ring are sealed so that the steam cannot escape. Heat from the steam is trans-
                      ferred to this cool, fresh beer thus heating it to make it ready for the next run
                      when it will be transferred into the drained still via a wooden trough connect-
                      ing the two (not shown here). The steam then moves via another connecting
                      rod (12) into the flake stand (13) and into the condenser (15)--in this case
                      another double-walled ring, higher and narrower than the previous one. The
                      steam is condensed in this ring by the cold water flowing into the flake stand
                      from (14) and exiting by outlet (18). As the steam is condensed into alcohol,
                      it flows through a strainer and funnel (16) into the container (17).
                       
                       
                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • drjulianxyz
                      ... ....That s it ,Harry,but I seem to remember a slightly different picture. .....The main idea was to use the beer as the coolant for the alkie,saved a
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 30, 2009
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                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "drjulianxyz" <drjulianxyz@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" gff_stwrt@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > So, to me, the most efficient installation would be something like
                        > the very old pictures you see (couldn't find it on the web but it's
                        > there) of a pot still that works like this:
                        > > Sounds like picture in book series "Foxfire",on moonshining.
                        > > Many libraries have this,or intralibrary loan,might be online.
                        > > Good luck,DJ
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You mean this one?
                        >
                        > The Appalachian Blockade Still
                        >
                        > [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/Harry/Untitled-1.gif\
                        > ] MOONSHINING AS A FINE ART 325 PLATE 270 Refined to the ultimate,
                        ....That's it ,Harry,but I seem to remember a slightly different picture.
                        .....The main idea was to use the beer as the coolant for the alkie,saved a tremendous amount of time and energy.
                        .....The quote that stuck in my mind (after 30+ yrs) was the stiller saying "The beer was almost at a boil when I refilled the pot!"
                        ....They were using a steamer,producing at a rate and quality we would consider fuel production today!
                        ....Harry,I want to thank you for your Simple Still idea,along with the great instructions and directions you gave us.GREAT!
                        ....For people with little knowledge or skills in metalworking (like myself) the slant-plate(Boka?) head is obviously even easier and cheaper to build,if not necessarily as efficient.
                        ...I have drawn plans,and am now constructing,a still I would judge to also be very easy and economical to build and to run,using several different ideas from various sites,RLM,column as a pot,condensers.
                        ...If I ever figure out how to attach pictures/plans to my e-mail that people can see,I'd appreciate your comments.
                        ...The main problem I have left is an Economic way to convey HOT coolant and distillate. Even if I have to use copper all the way,I still need hose of some sort to make joins,as brass fittings are worth their weight in gold,practically.
                        ...Told that clear fuel line from auto part store is inert,hi-temp.
                        ...Have read thousands of words (anti-plastic) but what does anyone think of using short sections just as couplings,unions?
                        .......Any help appreciated. DRJ
                      • drjulianxyz
                        ... Anybody try to help?...DRJ
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 5, 2009
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                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "drjulianxyz" <drjulianxyz@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "drjulianxyz" <drjulianxyz@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" gff_stwrt@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > So, to me, the most efficient installation would be something like
                          > > the very old pictures you see (couldn't find it on the web but it's
                          > > there) of a pot still that works like this:
                          > > > Sounds like picture in book series "Foxfire",on moonshining.
                          > > > Many libraries have this,or intralibrary loan,might be online.
                          > > > Good luck,DJ
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > You mean this one?
                          > >
                          > > The Appalachian Blockade Still
                          > >
                          > > [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/Harry/Untitled-1.gif\
                          > > ] MOONSHINING AS A FINE ART 325 PLATE 270 Refined to the ultimate,
                          > ....That's it ,Harry,but I seem to remember a slightly different picture.
                          > .....The main idea was to use the beer as the coolant for the alkie,saved a tremendous amount of time and energy.
                          > .....The quote that stuck in my mind (after 30+ yrs) was the stiller saying "The beer was almost at a boil when I refilled the pot!"
                          > ....They were using a steamer,producing at a rate and quality we would consider fuel production today!
                          > ....Harry,I want to thank you for your Simple Still idea,along with the great instructions and directions you gave us.GREAT!
                          > ....For people with little knowledge or skills in metalworking (like myself) the slant-plate(Boka?) head is obviously even easier and cheaper to build,if not necessarily as efficient.
                          > ...I have drawn plans,and am now constructing,a still I would judge to also be very easy and economical to build and to run,using several different ideas from various sites,RLM,column as a pot,condensers.
                          > ...If I ever figure out how to attach pictures/plans to my e-mail that people can see,I'd appreciate your comments.
                          > ...The main problem I have left is an Economic way to convey HOT coolant and distillate. Even if I have to use copper all the way,I still need hose of some sort to make joins,as brass fittings are worth their weight in gold,practically.
                          > ...Told that clear fuel line from auto part store is inert,hi-temp.
                          > ...Have read thousands of words (anti-plastic) but what does anyone think of using short sections just as couplings,unions?
                          > .......Any help appreciated. DRJ
                          >
                          Anybody try to help?...DRJ
                        • abbababbaccc
                          ... I d say you end up with Chateau Michelin , extremely dry and rubbery white wine. Fuel is different from ethanol + other high/low boiling point compounds.
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 5, 2009
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                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "drjulianxyz" <drjulianxyz@...> wrote:
                            > > ...Have read thousands of words (anti-plastic) but what does anyone think of using short sections just as couplings,unions?
                            > > .......Any help appreciated. DRJ
                            > >
                            > Anybody try to help?...DRJ
                            >

                            I'd say you end up with "Chateau Michelin", extremely dry and rubbery white wine. Fuel is different from ethanol + other high/low boiling point compounds. It will most likely leach nasties. Even silicone hose gives off taste.

                            Slainte, Riku
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