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Re: Ignorance WAS bliss...

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  • Charles
    Lalvin EC-1118. Found that on the website I m going to order from. Mason s recipe (at least the one that I m reading) is a comparison of the norm vs. the
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 3, 2009
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      Lalvin EC-1118. Found that on the website I'm going to order from. Mason's recipe (at least the one that I'm reading) is a comparison of the norm vs. the hybrid, so while the recipe says 2 packs, it also says he only used one pack per wash. The Lalvin I see is sold in 5g packs. Mason says a 4gal total volume (20L I think?) - so for a 20L/4gal wash, do you use 5g or 10g of the Lalvin? Also, you say it can withstand a higher ABV, but this time I'm trying for (I believe the way it was worded was) an unstressed yeast mix...still go with Lalvin?

      --Mad Hatter
      *Why is it I'm more concerned about keeping my yeast unstressed on my vacation than I am about keeping myself unstressed?*

      > However, I only use and perfer the Lalvin EC-1118 yeast strain over
      > regular old Baker's yeast. It is a very neutral, highly competitive
      > yeast, much faster acting, and can withstand a much higher ABV (18% vs
      > only 14% for Baker's yeast), since it is a strain of the S. Bayanus
      > champagne family (species). Due to its highly competitive nature, you
      > really dont have to worry about wild yeast infections either.
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      For a 20 liter wash, start off with 2 packs - of 5 grams. Where I buy it, EC-1118 comes in 11 gram packs. So start off with 2. I have found you can re-use
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 3, 2009
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        For a 20 liter wash, start off with 2 packs - of 5 grams. Where I buy
        it, EC-1118 comes in 11 gram packs. So start off with 2. I have found
        you can re-use the trub for new batches over 10 to 15 times without new
        yeast. This is due to its high competitiveness. Why it has the
        nickname "The Killer Strain".

        And yes, although it withstands up to 18%+ ABV, tis much better not to
        over-stress it. I usually only bring it up to a 14% to 16% ABV. But
        again, since its a neutral type strain, its fine for making neutral type
        alcohols. However I also used it for my rums and corn sour mashes with
        good success.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <jazzvandoren@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Lalvin EC-1118. Found that on the website I'm going to order from.
        Mason's recipe (at least the one that I'm reading) is a comparison of
        the norm vs. the hybrid, so while the recipe says 2 packs, it also says
        he only used one pack per wash. The Lalvin I see is sold in 5g packs.
        Mason says a 4gal total volume (20L I think?) - so for a 20L/4gal wash,
        do you use 5g or 10g of the Lalvin? Also, you say it can withstand a
        higher ABV, but this time I'm trying for (I believe the way it was
        worded was) an unstressed yeast mix...still go with Lalvin?
        >
        > --Mad Hatter
        > *Why is it I'm more concerned about keeping my yeast unstressed on my
        vacation than I am about keeping myself unstressed?*
        >
        > > However, I only use and perfer the Lalvin EC-1118 yeast strain over
        > > regular old Baker's yeast. It is a very neutral, highly competitive
        > > yeast, much faster acting, and can withstand a much higher ABV (18%
        vs
        > > only 14% for Baker's yeast), since it is a strain of the S. Bayanus
        > > champagne family (species). Due to its highly competitive nature,
        you
        > > really dont have to worry about wild yeast infections either.
        > >
        >
      • tgfoitwoods
        I d emphatically second that, on all counts, but plain ol baker s yeast really does work pretty well in a MUM wash. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 3, 2009
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          I'd emphatically second that, on all counts, but plain ol' baker's yeast really does work pretty well in a MUM wash.

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          ----snip----
          >
          > However, I only use and perfer the Lalvin EC-1118 yeast strain over
          > regular old Baker's yeast. It is a very neutral, highly competitive
          > yeast, much faster acting, and can withstand a much higher ABV (18% vs
          > only 14% for Baker's yeast), since it is a strain of the S. Bayanus
          > champagne family (species). Due to its highly competitive nature, you
          > really dont have to worry about wild yeast infections either.
          >
          > Vino es Veritas,
          >
          > Jim aka Waldo.
          >
          >
          ----snip----
        • Trid
          ... The Lalvin 1118 is a good universal go-to yeast and gets the job done well. Personally, though, I m a fan of the baking yeast. Interestingly enough,
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 3, 2009
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'd emphatically second that, on all counts, but plain ol' baker's yeast really does work pretty well in a MUM wash.
            >
            > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

            The Lalvin 1118 is a good universal "go-to" yeast and gets the job done well.

            Personally, though, I'm a fan of the baking yeast. Interestingly enough, high alcohol tolerance is quoted as being a strong point of the 1118 and at the same time, you'll also hear people talk about doing lower abv washes for cleaner and more efficient fermentations. If that matters, then it's worth knowing that those values fall well within baking yeast's capabilities.

            Either one will get the job done. As with any brewing, the yeast will have some effect on the end result, so it's a matter of what end result you want in the first place. If you're not sure, try a little of both (provided it's within your means). Bulk-wise, baking yeast is going to be cheaper.

            Happy brewing,
            Trid
          • cestujici2
            ... Accepting this as true, and I don t dispute that it most probably is true, the question remains: why is it true? Simple market economics of supply and
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Trid" <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
              >Bulk-wise, baking yeast is going to be cheaper.
              >
              > Happy brewing,
              > Trid
              >

              Accepting this as true, and I don't dispute that it most probably is true, the question remains: why is it true? Simple market economics of supply and demand? Or does brewing yeast demand a better standard of living? Why should some yeast be costlier than others?
            • jamesonbeam1
              Hi Cest, Frankly, considering the amount of bread which the world consumes and makes on a daily basis, versus the amount of beers, wines and other alcholic
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                Hi Cest,

                Frankly, considering the amount of bread which the world consumes and makes on a daily basis,  versus the amount of  beers, wines and other alcholic imbibments made and consumed with the hundreds of different strains of beer, wine, turbo and other types of yeasts, I would offer to suggest its a supply/demand factor.

                Tis almost certain that the amount of Baker's yeast sold around the world, outweighs these specialty yeasts demands by at least a factor of 1000 to 1 or more. 

                You might want to research the quantity of bread eaten per day, per person versus the average quantity of alcoholic beverages consumed per person, per day...   Of course, members of this site and Advanced Distiller's must not be included in this survey,  since we would definitely skew the over all numbers.... :)

                Vino es Veritas,

                Jim aka Waldo.

                "Give a man a loaf of bread and he will eat for a day - Teach a man to grow grain and he will be feed for a lifetime. "  Author - Lao Tzu

                "Give me a fish, I eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I eat for a lifetime. "  Author -  Robert Louis Stevenson

                "Give a man a loaf of bread;  you have fed him for today. Teach a man to grow grain and fish and by Geezzz,  he will start making shine and sit in a boat with a fishin pole over the side  gettin drunk every day."         Author - Jim Beam


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "cestujici2" <cestujici2@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Trid" triddlywinks@ wrote:
                > >Bulk-wise, baking yeast is going to be cheaper.
                > >
                > > Happy brewing,
                > > Trid
                > >
                >
                > Accepting this as true, and I don't dispute that it most probably is true, the question remains: why is it true? Simple market economics of supply and demand? Or does brewing yeast demand a better standard of living? Why should some yeast be costlier than others?
                >

              • Steve Spence
                Aren t certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly, allowing a higher
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                  Aren't certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than
                  others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly,
                  allowing a higher percentage of alcohol.


                  Steve Spence
                  Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                  http://www.green-trust.org
                  http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




                  jamesonbeam1 wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Cest,
                  >
                  > Frankly, considering the amount of bread which the world consumes and
                  > makes on a daily basis, versus the amount of beers, wines and other
                  > alcholic imbibments made and consumed with the hundreds of different
                  > strains of beer, wine, turbo and other types of yeasts, I would offer to
                  > suggest its a supply/demand factor.
                  >
                  > Tis almost certain that the amount of Baker's yeast sold around the
                  > world, outweighs these specialty yeasts demands by at least a factor of
                  > 1000 to 1 or more.
                  >
                  > You might want to research the quantity of bread eaten per day, per
                  > person versus the average quantity of alcoholic beverages consumed per
                  > person, per day... Of course, members of this site and Advanced
                  > Distiller's must not be included in this survey, since we would
                  > definitely skew the over all numbers.... :)
                  >
                  > Vino es Veritas,
                  >
                  > Jim aka Waldo.
                  >
                  > "Give a man a loaf of bread and he will eat for a day - Teach a man to
                  > grow grain and he will be feed for a lifetime. " *Author - Lao Tzu
                  > *
                  >
                  > "Give me a fish, I eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I eat for a
                  > lifetime. " * Author - Robert Louis Stevenson
                  > *
                  >
                  > "Give a man a loaf of bread; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to
                  > grow grain and fish and by Geezzz, he will start making shine and sit
                  > in a boat with a fishin pole over the side gettin drunk every
                  > day." * Author - Jim Beam*
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "cestujici2" <cestujici2@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Trid" triddlywinks@ wrote:
                  >> >Bulk-wise, baking yeast is going to be cheaper.
                  >> >
                  >> > Happy brewing,
                  >> > Trid
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >> Accepting this as true, and I don't dispute that it most probably is
                  > true, the question remains: why is it true? Simple market economics of
                  > supply and demand? Or does brewing yeast demand a better standard of
                  > living? Why should some yeast be costlier than others?
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                • gff_stwrt
                  Hi, folks and hello 2 (can t pronounce the rest of your name, sorry!)- Well, to me the answer is simple. I think (never bought any, for reasons that will be
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                    Hi, folks and hello 2 (can't pronounce the rest of your name, sorry!)-

                    Well, to me the answer is simple.
                    I think (never bought any, for reasons that will be obvious) that distillers yeasts come in say 5g or 11g packets.

                    Now, I am a baker (so I can get baker's yeast 'free' from our bakery and just have to walk in the door and take some so no trouble ordering and so on.)

                    But, because bakeries use larger quantities of yeast to make bread doughs, the dried yeast (and a lot use fresh, not dried) comes in a standard 500g vacuum pack. And of course these bigger packs are cheaper, especially when they are bought by the carton.

                    Maybe ten bucks a pack, it's a long time since I actually worked making the bread so I could be quite wrong there.

                    I'll ask my son, who does all that now, so I will know the supplier's rate, anyhow.
                    So make friends with your local neighbourhood baker....

                    Regards,

                    (of course...) Bhe Baker




                    - In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "cestujici2" <cestujici2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Trid" <triddlywinks@> wrote:
                    > >Bulk-wise, baking yeast is going to be cheaper.
                    > >
                    > > Happy brewing,
                    > > Trid
                    > >
                    >
                    > Accepting this as true, and I don't dispute that it most probably is true, the question remains: why is it true? Simple market economics of supply and demand? Or does brewing yeast demand a better standard of living? Why should some yeast be costlier than others?
                    >
                  • tgfoitwoods
                    Steve, That s quite true, but high alcohol level washes are not always the goal. In fact,they are often the opposite of desirable, depending on what you re
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                      Steve,

                      That's quite true, but high alcohol level washes are not always the goal. In fact,they are often the opposite of desirable, depending on what you're doing.

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Aren't certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than
                      > others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly,
                      > allowing a higher percentage of alcohol.
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve Spence
                      > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                      > http://www.green-trust.org
                      > http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                      >
                      >
                      ----snip----
                    • Steve Spence
                      we are primarily cider makers (similar to making wine), and though we have experience making ethanol fuel, we have no experience distilling ethanol for
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                        we are primarily cider makers (similar to making wine), and though we
                        have experience making ethanol fuel, we have no experience distilling
                        ethanol for internal consumption.


                        Steve Spence
                        Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                        http://www.green-trust.org
                        http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




                        tgfoitwoods wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Steve,
                        >
                        > That's quite true, but high alcohol level washes are not always the
                        > goal. In fact,they are often the opposite of desirable, depending on
                        > what you're doing.
                        >
                        > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                        >
                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:new_distillers%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Aren't certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than
                        >> others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly,
                        >> allowing a higher percentage of alcohol.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Steve Spence
                        >> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                        >> http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>
                        >> http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                        > <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
                        >>
                        >>
                        > ----snip----
                        >
                        >
                      • burrows206
                        Hi, Give a man enough knowledge to know what yeast is and how to use it and he ll be pissed for a lifetime and rich enough (while sobering up) to know how to
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                          Hi,
                          Give a man enough knowledge to know what yeast is and how to use it and he'll be pissed for a lifetime and rich enough (while sobering up) to know how to how to keep everyone else pissed while he fleeces them and stays rich for a lifetime

                          regards Geoff (who's absolutely pissed right now on this red winy stuff but hey struth wot the hell it's cheap and I'm breaking self imposed forum rules now sorry guys )
                          Geoff





                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Aren't certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than
                          > others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly,
                          > allowing a higher percentage of alcohol.
                          >
                          >
                          > Steve Spence
                          > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                          > http://www.green-trust.org
                          > http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > jamesonbeam1 wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi Cest,
                          > >
                          > > Frankly, considering the amount of bread which the world consumes and
                          > > makes on a daily basis, versus the amount of beers, wines and other
                          > > alcholic imbibments made and consumed with the hundreds of different
                          > > strains of beer, wine, turbo and other types of yeasts, I would offer to
                          > > suggest its a supply/demand factor.
                          > >
                          > > Tis almost certain that the amount of Baker's yeast sold around the
                          > > world, outweighs these specialty yeasts demands by at least a factor of
                          > > 1000 to 1 or more.
                          > >
                          > > You might want to research the quantity of bread eaten per day, per
                          > > person versus the average quantity of alcoholic beverages consumed per
                          > > person, per day... Of course, members of this site and Advanced
                          > > Distiller's must not be included in this survey, since we would
                          > > definitely skew the over all numbers.... :)
                          > >
                          > > Vino es Veritas,
                          > >
                          > > Jim aka Waldo.
                          > >
                          > > "Give a man a loaf of bread and he will eat for a day - Teach a man to
                          > > grow grain and he will be feed for a lifetime. " *Author - Lao Tzu
                          > > *
                          > >
                          > > "Give me a fish, I eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I eat for a
                          > > lifetime. " * Author - Robert Louis Stevenson
                          > > *
                          > >
                          > > "Give a man a loaf of bread; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to
                          > > grow grain and fish and by Geezzz, he will start making shine and sit
                          > > in a boat with a fishin pole over the side gettin drunk every
                          > > day." * Author - Jim Beam*
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "cestujici2" <cestujici2@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Trid" triddlywinks@ wrote:
                          > >> >Bulk-wise, baking yeast is going to be cheaper.
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Happy brewing,
                          > >> > Trid
                          > >> >
                          > >>
                          > >> Accepting this as true, and I don't dispute that it most probably is
                          > > true, the question remains: why is it true? Simple market economics of
                          > > supply and demand? Or does brewing yeast demand a better standard of
                          > > living? Why should some yeast be costlier than others?
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • jamesonbeam1
                          Hi Steve, Well, most wine yeasts are of the species Saccharomyces cerevisiae as is Baker s yeast.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                            Hi Steve,

                            Well, most wine yeasts are of the species  Saccharomyces cerevisiae as is Baker's yeast.  The various strains within this species have alcohol tolerances of around the 14% ABV area.

                            However, there are champagne yeast strains that are members of the Saccharomyces bayanus species, such as Lalvin  K1V-1116 and EC-1118, which are a few of the better know strains.

                            These strains have an alcohol Tolerance of 18+ % ABV, with some strains used in Turbo washes that will go up to 20% ABV.

                            However, as Z Bob mentioned, high ABV in wines and ciders is not always desired if distilling them into fruit brandies, since the higher the ABV, the more flavors are lost in the distilling process.

                            Vino es Veritas,

                            Jim aka Waldo.


                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Aren't certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than
                            > others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly,
                            > allowing a higher percentage of alcohol.
                            >
                            >
                            > Steve Spence
                            > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                            > http://www.green-trust.org
                            > http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                             

                          • Steve Spence
                            Thank you. Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency http://www.green-trust.org http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 4, 2009
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                              Thank you.

                              Steve Spence
                              Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                              http://www.green-trust.org
                              http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




                              jamesonbeam1 wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Steve,
                              >
                              > Well, most wine yeasts are of the species /Saccharomyces cerevisiae/
                              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae>/ /as is Baker's
                              > yeast. The various strains within this species have alcohol tolerances
                              > of around the 14% ABV area.
                              >
                              > However, there are champagne yeast strains that are members of the
                              > */Saccharomyces bayanus/* species, such as Lalvin K1V-1116 and EC-1118,
                              > which are a few of the better know strains.
                              >
                              > These strains have an alcohol Tolerance of 18+ % ABV, with some strains
                              > used in Turbo washes that will go up to 20% ABV.
                              >
                              > However, as Z Bob mentioned, high ABV in wines and ciders is not always
                              > desired if distilling them into fruit brandies, since the higher the
                              > ABV, the more flavors are lost in the distilling process.
                              >
                              > Vino es Veritas,
                              >
                              > Jim aka Waldo.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Aren't certain yeasts more tolerant of higher alcohol levels than
                              >> others? I was told that wine yeasts do not get killed off as quickly,
                              >> allowing a higher percentage of alcohol.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Steve Spence
                              >> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                              >> http://www.green-trust.org
                              >> http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
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