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Re: Cognac Grapes...

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  • waljaco
    North France is not the best region to ripen grapes fully! Le terroir est terrible? wal
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 31 9:49 PM
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      North France is not the best region to ripen grapes fully! Le terroir est terrible?
      wal
      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Dana,
      > I think you might well be right in that the grapes are harvested early to get that right sweetness and acidity, because those guys and their ancestors have been doing this a long time and know from hundreds of years experience what makes a good quality and saleable Cognac.
      > You and most of us here know that a sweeter grape will make a higher % Abv in the fermented wine but it won't necessarily make a better brandy.
      > It's like eating young cow 'veal' or adult cow `beef' both are the same beast but producing very different end flavours and textures in your eating experience.
      > I think the Cognac vineyard owner /manager must be constantly monitoring the exact taste in sweetness and acidity in the grape to get it perfectly right.
      > To you or me the grape would seem wrong to taste but they know what makes their end Cognac product the envy of the world. They also know that with the right grape they can command the top prices they do. The knowledge that you/we are guessing at, they already know and know how to a turn around a bad situation coming up long before it does and that long experience handed down from generation to generation will let them come out with at least a saleable product whereas we in a similar situation would be up the creek without the paddle
      > Now if you look at the great Scottish whiskeys'. It's no mistake they use top notch ingredients down to the very spring water and ferment out to the lower Abv percentage as this will make a superior end product and therefore command top bracket prices. These Jocks (Scottish) are "canny" when liberating you from your cash the really smart Jocks will even leave you thinking they have done you a favour. I think done is the operative word in this case. Was it Zymurgy Bob who said if you put garbage in you get garbage out.
      > If you put the right experience type and quality of grapes in, and you get the perfect Cognac out
      > I'm just giving you my best-est guess-tum-ation as to how I see it
      > Geoff
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ACKERFORGE" <ackerforge@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Greetings all,
      > >
      > > In the Cognac region of France some the primary grapes used are Ugni Blanc, Colombard, and more formerly, Folle Blanche. From what I've read, the Ugni Blanc is harvested at a lower Brix so that a return of 8-10% alcohol is expected post-fermentation.
      > >
      > > Not having worked with Ugni Blanc, as it is not grown in our appellation, I was wondering if someone out there knew why it is picked at the lower Brix levels. Is it picked before complete ripening purposely to limit the amount of alcohol in the mash, towards the hope of gaining a better flavor and aroma? 22-24 degrees Brix is what many winemakers hope for in order to get 11-12% alcohol in their wines. In California of late, the trend towards longer hanging grapes, higer sugars and consequently higher alcohols than what were previously considered standard.
      > >
      > > Or, like many of the Native American grape varieties, and table grape varieties, does the Ugni Blanc only get to into the mid to upper teens in Brix at full ripeness?
      > >
      > > If the grapes are harvested before complete ripeness, the naturally occuring acidity would be higher, which can be desireable, the sugars lower, thus lower alcohol in teh fermentation, but in my experience, the grapes could also have diminished flavors as well. We pick by a number of criteria, Brix, acidity pH and flavor, all hopefully in balance. Lower flavors could be problem if the grapes are harvested prior to fully ripening.
      > >
      > > Whatever the French are doing...I think they are on the right track, as I just saw a bottle of Louis XIII Cognac in our liquor store for something like $1200.00 Also I accepting contributions towards the purchase of said Cognac--my favorite charity. Contact me via e-mail for details. :)
      > >
      > > Any light on the subject would be interesting.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > Dana
      > >
      >
    • waljaco
      The reason why distillation is extensive in the Charente region is that it made crappy white wine without much character but which makes a great neutral spirit
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 1, 2009
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        The reason why distillation is extensive in the Charente region is that it made crappy white wine without much character but which makes a great neutral spirit (eau-de-vie de vin) which the Dutch needed. Cognac/fine/brandywine/brandy - its character comes from oak and caramel. In Australia the white sultana grape is used as it is not a suitable wine grape.
        wal
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Dana,
        > I think you might well be right in that the grapes are harvested early to get that right sweetness and acidity, because those guys and their ancestors have been doing this a long time and know from hundreds of years experience what makes a good quality and saleable Cognac.
        > You and most of us here know that a sweeter grape will make a higher % Abv in the fermented wine but it won't necessarily make a better brandy.
        > It's like eating young cow 'veal' or adult cow `beef' both are the same beast but producing very different end flavours and textures in your eating experience.
        > I think the Cognac vineyard owner /manager must be constantly monitoring the exact taste in sweetness and acidity in the grape to get it perfectly right.
        > To you or me the grape would seem wrong to taste but they know what makes their end Cognac product the envy of the world. They also know that with the right grape they can command the top prices they do. The knowledge that you/we are guessing at, they already know and know how to a turn around a bad situation coming up long before it does and that long experience handed down from generation to generation will let them come out with at least a saleable product whereas we in a similar situation would be up the creek without the paddle
        > Now if you look at the great Scottish whiskeys'. It's no mistake they use top notch ingredients down to the very spring water and ferment out to the lower Abv percentage as this will make a superior end product and therefore command top bracket prices. These Jocks (Scottish) are "canny" when liberating you from your cash the really smart Jocks will even leave you thinking they have done you a favour. I think done is the operative word in this case. Was it Zymurgy Bob who said if you put garbage in you get garbage out.
        > If you put the right experience type and quality of grapes in, and you get the perfect Cognac out
        > I'm just giving you my best-est guess-tum-ation as to how I see it
        > Geoff
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ACKERFORGE" <ackerforge@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Greetings all,
        > >
        > > In the Cognac region of France some the primary grapes used are Ugni Blanc, Colombard, and more formerly, Folle Blanche. From what I've read, the Ugni Blanc is harvested at a lower Brix so that a return of 8-10% alcohol is expected post-fermentation.
        > >
        > > Not having worked with Ugni Blanc, as it is not grown in our appellation, I was wondering if someone out there knew why it is picked at the lower Brix levels. Is it picked before complete ripening purposely to limit the amount of alcohol in the mash, towards the hope of gaining a better flavor and aroma? 22-24 degrees Brix is what many winemakers hope for in order to get 11-12% alcohol in their wines. In California of late, the trend towards longer hanging grapes, higer sugars and consequently higher alcohols than what were previously considered standard.
        > >
        > > Or, like many of the Native American grape varieties, and table grape varieties, does the Ugni Blanc only get to into the mid to upper teens in Brix at full ripeness?
        > >
        > > If the grapes are harvested before complete ripeness, the naturally occuring acidity would be higher, which can be desireable, the sugars lower, thus lower alcohol in teh fermentation, but in my experience, the grapes could also have diminished flavors as well. We pick by a number of criteria, Brix, acidity pH and flavor, all hopefully in balance. Lower flavors could be problem if the grapes are harvested prior to fully ripening.
        > >
        > > Whatever the French are doing...I think they are on the right track, as I just saw a bottle of Louis XIII Cognac in our liquor store for something like $1200.00 Also I accepting contributions towards the purchase of said Cognac--my favorite charity. Contact me via e-mail for details. :)
        > >
        > > Any light on the subject would be interesting.
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > >
        > > Dana
        > >
        >
      • burrows206
        Hi Wal, Sorry Wal I live in the Sarlat area in the south/west area of France and a little further west toward Bergerac and Bordeaux the countryside is full of
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 1, 2009
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          Hi Wal,
          Sorry Wal I live in the Sarlat area in the south/west area of France and a little further west toward Bergerac and Bordeaux the countryside is full of square mile after square mile of vineyards (or should that be square Kilometre) all with the own individual licensed vineyard names.
          Maybe not used at the moment, as a lot sell to a central grape collection area and their grapes get swallowed up under the big wine conglomerates.
          But they all jealously guard and keep up to date their own government register wine making licence even though they sell to a central winery. Some of these small vineyards are only a couple of acres and most farms keep a private vineyard for their own personal use over and above the grapes they sell
          If they were ever to sell their property that licence could be resurrected and the new owner could sell his own local wine and if really good to a global internet market.
          Geoff


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > North France is not the best region to ripen grapes fully! Le terroir est terrible?
          > wal
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Dana,
          > > I think you might well be right in that the grapes are harvested early to get that right sweetness and acidity, because those guys and their ancestors have been doing this a long time and know from hundreds of years experience what makes a good quality and saleable Cognac.
          > > You and most of us here know that a sweeter grape will make a higher % Abv in the fermented wine but it won't necessarily make a better brandy.
          > > It's like eating young cow 'veal' or adult cow `beef' both are the same beast but producing very different end flavours and textures in your eating experience.
          > > I think the Cognac vineyard owner /manager must be constantly monitoring the exact taste in sweetness and acidity in the grape to get it perfectly right.
          > > To you or me the grape would seem wrong to taste but they know what makes their end Cognac product the envy of the world. They also know that with the right grape they can command the top prices they do. The knowledge that you/we are guessing at, they already know and know how to a turn around a bad situation coming up long before it does and that long experience handed down from generation to generation will let them come out with at least a saleable product whereas we in a similar situation would be up the creek without the paddle
          > > Now if you look at the great Scottish whiskeys'. It's no mistake they use top notch ingredients down to the very spring water and ferment out to the lower Abv percentage as this will make a superior end product and therefore command top bracket prices. These Jocks (Scottish) are "canny" when liberating you from your cash the really smart Jocks will even leave you thinking they have done you a favour. I think done is the operative word in this case. Was it Zymurgy Bob who said if you put garbage in you get garbage out.
          > > If you put the right experience type and quality of grapes in, and you get the perfect Cognac out
          > > I'm just giving you my best-est guess-tum-ation as to how I see it
          > > Geoff
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ACKERFORGE" <ackerforge@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Greetings all,
          > > >
          > > > In the Cognac region of France some the primary grapes used are Ugni Blanc, Colombard, and more formerly, Folle Blanche. From what I've read, the Ugni Blanc is harvested at a lower Brix so that a return of 8-10% alcohol is expected post-fermentation.
          > > >
          > > > Not having worked with Ugni Blanc, as it is not grown in our appellation, I was wondering if someone out there knew why it is picked at the lower Brix levels. Is it picked before complete ripening purposely to limit the amount of alcohol in the mash, towards the hope of gaining a better flavor and aroma? 22-24 degrees Brix is what many winemakers hope for in order to get 11-12% alcohol in their wines. In California of late, the trend towards longer hanging grapes, higer sugars and consequently higher alcohols than what were previously considered standard.
          > > >
          > > > Or, like many of the Native American grape varieties, and table grape varieties, does the Ugni Blanc only get to into the mid to upper teens in Brix at full ripeness?
          > > >
          > > > If the grapes are harvested before complete ripeness, the naturally occuring acidity would be higher, which can be desireable, the sugars lower, thus lower alcohol in teh fermentation, but in my experience, the grapes could also have diminished flavors as well. We pick by a number of criteria, Brix, acidity pH and flavor, all hopefully in balance. Lower flavors could be problem if the grapes are harvested prior to fully ripening.
          > > >
          > > > Whatever the French are doing...I think they are on the right track, as I just saw a bottle of Louis XIII Cognac in our liquor store for something like $1200.00 Also I accepting contributions towards the purchase of said Cognac--my favorite charity. Contact me via e-mail for details. :)
          > > >
          > > > Any light on the subject would be interesting.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > >
          > > > Dana
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • gff_stwrt
          Hi, Wal and hi, folks, I lived for many years around Mildura where the Sultanas were the grape most grown for dried fruit. It is also known, especially in the
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 1, 2009
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            Hi, Wal and hi, folks,

            I lived for many years around Mildura where the Sultanas were the grape most grown for dried fruit.
            It is also known, especially in the USA, as Thompson's Seedless (Raisin, especially when dried).
            These days it is often blown up to over twice its natural size with the application of gibberelic acid, which I think might be a hormone, and sold as fresh fruit.
            One can still get beautiful dried sultanas but only from a couple of very small independent packers; the bigger companies mix it with inferior imported fruit, and it is not nearly as nice.

            Regards,

            The Baker

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
            >
            > The reason why distillation is extensive in the Charente region is that it made crappy white wine without much character but which makes a great neutral spirit (eau-de-vie de vin) which the Dutch needed. Cognac/fine/brandywine/brandy - its character comes from oak and caramel. In Australia the white sultana grape is used as it is not a suitable wine grape.
            > wal
          • jamesonbeam1
            Hey Baker, While the Sultanas grapes might not be good for making wine by themselves, I ve used Thompson s seeedless raisins in many of my wine recipes,
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1, 2009
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              Hey Baker,

              While the Sultanas grapes might not be good for making wine by themselves, I've used Thompson's seeedless raisins in many of my wine recipes, including apple, blackberry and peach.  Has something to do with the added nutrients, flavor and sweetness.

              Jack Keller in his "The Winemaking Home Page" also recommends them in many of his recipes as well.

              Vino es Veritas,

              Jim aka Waldo.


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Wal and hi, folks,
              >
              > I lived for many years around Mildura where the Sultanas were the grape most grown for dried fruit.
              > It is also known, especially in the USA, as Thompson's Seedless (Raisin, especially when dried).
              > These days it is often blown up to over twice its natural size with the application of gibberelic acid, which I think might be a hormone, and sold as fresh fruit.
              > One can still get beautiful dried sultanas but only from a couple of very small independent packers; the bigger companies mix it with inferior imported fruit, and it is not nearly as nice.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > The Baker

            • gff_stwrt
              Hi,Jim and hello folks, Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding; the sultana and the Thompson s seedless are exactly the same fruit. But it might or might
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 1, 2009
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                Hi,Jim and hello folks,
                Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding; the sultana and the Thompson's seedless are exactly the same fruit.
                But it might or might not be more correct to call the Thompson's seedless a RAISIN after it has been dried.
                Anyway they taste great but I was astonished at the size the first time I saw the treated ones for sale as fresh fruit.

                Regards,

                The Baker



                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hey Baker,
                >
                > While the Sultanas grapes might not be good for making wine by
                > themselves, I've used Thompson's seeedless raisins in many of my wine
                > recipes, including apple, blackberry and peach. Has something to do
                > with the added nutrients, flavor and sweetness.
                >
                > Jack Keller in his "The Winemaking Home Page" also recommends them in
                > many of his recipes as well.
                >
                > Vino es Veritas,
                >
                > Jim aka Waldo.
                >
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi, Wal and hi, folks,
                > >
                > > I lived for many years around Mildura where the Sultanas were the
                > grape most grown for dried fruit.
                > > It is also known, especially in the USA, as Thompson's Seedless
                > (Raisin, especially when dried).
                > > These days it is often blown up to over twice its natural size with
                > the application of gibberelic acid, which I think might be a hormone,
                > and sold as fresh fruit.
                > > One can still get beautiful dried sultanas but only from a couple of
                > very small independent packers; the bigger companies mix it with
                > inferior imported fruit, and it is not nearly as nice.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > >
                > > The Baker
                >
              • jamesonbeam1
                Yuppers Baker, Well aware that the Sultanas and the Thompson s seedless rasins are one in the same - when the Sultanas are dried, they are indeed called
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 2, 2009
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                  Yuppers Baker,

                  Well aware that the Sultanas and the Thompson's seedless rasins are one in the same - when the Sultanas are dried, they are indeed called "raisins.;)

                  "The sultana grape is cultivated in the United States under the name Thompson Seedless, named after William Thompson, a viticulturist who was an early grower in California and is sometimes credited with the variety's introduction.[4][5] According to the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, the two names are synonymous.[6] Virtually all of California raisin production (approximately 97% in 2000) and roughly one-third of California's total grape area is of this variety, making it the single most widely-planted variety.[7][5] 

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)

                  But again, Thompson's seedless raisins are widely used in many fruit wine (not grape wines lol) recipes that I have seen.

                  Vino es Veritas,

                  Jim aka Waldo.


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,Jim and hello folks,
                  > Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding; the sultana and the Thompson's seedless are exactly the same fruit.
                  > But it might or might not be more correct to call the Thompson's seedless a RAISIN after it has been dried.
                  > Anyway they taste great but I was astonished at the size the first time I saw the treated ones for sale as fresh fruit.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > The Baker
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hey Baker,
                  > >
                  > > While the Sultanas grapes might not be good for making wine by
                  > > themselves, I've used Thompson's seeedless raisins in many of my wine
                  > > recipes, including apple, blackberry and peach. Has something to do
                  > > with the added nutrients, flavor and sweetness.
                  > >
                  > > Jack Keller in his "The Winemaking Home Page" also recommends them in
                  > > many of his recipes as well.
                  > >
                  > > Vino es Veritas,
                  > >
                  > > Jim aka Waldo.

                • gff_stwrt
                  Hi, Jim and folks, That s the difference, you see. In Australia the dried fruit of the sultana is not called a raisin but -- wait for it -- a SULTANA! The
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 3, 2009
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                    Hi, Jim and folks,

                    That's the difference, you see. In Australia the dried fruit of the sultana is not called a raisin but -- wait for it -- a SULTANA!
                    The dried fruit we call a raisin is generally from a larger grape, quite often a Waltham Cross or perhaps (memory a bit uncerain) Gordo Blanco or others the names of which I don't know.

                    Regards,

                    The Baker
                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Yuppers Baker,
                    >
                    > Well aware that the Sultanas and the Thompson's seedless rasins are one
                    > in the same - when the Sultanas are dried, they are indeed called
                    > "raisins. [;)]
                    >
                    > "The sultana grape is cultivated in the United States
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> under the name Thompson
                    > Seedless, named after William Thompson
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thompson_(viticulturist)> , a
                    > viticulturist <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viticulturist> who was an
                    > early grower in California <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California>
                    > and is sometimes credited with the variety's introduction.[4]
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-ahr-3> [5]
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-appellationameri\
                    > ca-4> According to the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Federal_Regulations> , the two
                    > names are synonymous.[6]
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-7cfr999.300-5>
                    > Virtually all of California raisin production (approximately 97% in
                    > 2000) and roughly one-third of California's total grape area is of this
                    > variety, making it the single most widely-planted variety.[7]
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-usda-6> [5]
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-appellationameri\
                    > ca-4>
                    >
                    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape
                    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape> )
                    >
                    > But again, Thompson's seedless raisins are widely used in many fruit
                    > wine (not grape wines lol) recipes that I have seen.
                    >
                    > Vino es Veritas,
                    >
                    > Jim aka Waldo.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi,Jim and hello folks,
                    > > Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding; the sultana and the
                    > Thompson's seedless are exactly the same fruit.
                    > > But it might or might not be more correct to call the Thompson's
                    > seedless a RAISIN after it has been dried.
                    > > Anyway they taste great but I was astonished at the size the first
                    > time I saw the treated ones for sale as fresh fruit.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > >
                    > > The Baker
                  • jamesonbeam1
                    Welp heck Baker, As usual ya ll Aussies always have to go your own way LOL.... To me a dried grape is a friggin raisin - as it is to most of the world: Raisins
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 3, 2009
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                      Welp heck Baker,

                      As usual ya'll Aussies always have to go your own way LOL....

                      To me a dried grape is a friggin raisin - as it is to most of the world:

                      Raisins are dried grapes. They are produced in many regions of the world, such as Armenia, the United States, Australia, Chile, Argentina, Macedonia, Mexico, Greece, Syria, Turkey, India, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, China, Afghanistan, Togo, and Jamaica, as well as South Africa and Southern and Eastern Europe. Raisins may be eaten raw or used in cooking and bakinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raisin

                      Although, Im sure someone like Wal will have a different scope on this subject... ;)

                      Vino es Veritas,

                      Jim aska Waldo.

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi, Jim and folks,
                      >
                      > That's the difference, you see. In Australia the dried fruit of the sultana is not called a raisin but -- wait for it -- a SULTANA!
                      > The dried fruit we call a raisin is generally from a larger grape, quite often a Waltham Cross or perhaps (memory a bit uncerain) Gordo Blanco or others the names of which I don't know.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > The Baker

                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yuppers Baker,
                      > >
                      > > Well aware that the Sultanas and the Thompson's seedless rasins are one
                      > > in the same - when the Sultanas are dried, they are indeed called
                      > > "raisins. [;)]
                      _____snip

                    • tgfoitwoods
                      Hmmmm. In the upper-left USA, raisins are dark, and when we want light-colored raisins, we ask for golden raisins , or (drumroll) sultanas! Zymurgy Bob, a
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 3, 2009
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                        Hmmmm. In the upper-left USA, raisins are dark, and when we want light-colored raisins, we ask for "golden raisins", or (drumroll) sultanas!

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Welp heck Baker,
                        >
                        > As usual ya'll Aussies always have to go your own way LOL....
                        >
                        > To me a dried grape is a friggin raisin - as it is to most of the world:
                        >
                        >----snip----
                        > >
                        > > That's the difference, you see. In Australia the dried fruit of the
                        > sultana is not called a raisin but -- wait for it -- a SULTANA!
                        > > The dried fruit we call a raisin is generally from a larger grape,
                        > quite often a Waltham Cross or perhaps (memory a bit uncerain) Gordo
                        > Blanco or others the names of which I don't know.
                        > >
                        > > Regards,
                        > >
                        > > The Baker
                        ----snip----
                      • jamesonbeam1
                        ROTF ZB, Welppers, guess ya ll Maniacs must a have a huge Aussie population up there too.... [:D] [:D] [:D] Yes raisins are dark - especially the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 3, 2009
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                          ROTF ZB,

                          Welppers, guess ya'll Maniacs must a have a huge Aussie population up there too....  :D:D:D

                          Yes raisins are dark - especially the Thompson's seedless raisins, about which Baker and I were having a somewhat sophmoric, but really funny discussion on....

                          But guess you didnt read my earlier post #36458 where, according to U.S. Code of Federal Regulations - you ready - BUTA BING BUTA BANG BUTA BOOM:

                          "The sultana grape is cultivated in the United States under the name Thompson Seedless, named after William Thompson, a viticulturist who was an early grower in California and is sometimes credited with the variety's introduction.[4][5] According to the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, the two names are synonymous.[6] Virtually all of California raisin production (approximately 97% in 2000) and roughly one-third of California's total grape area is of this variety, making it the single most widely-planted variety.[7][5]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)

                          Now since the Sultana and Thompson's seedless dark raisins are one in the same, then golden raisins should be some other type right???

                          But guess what... (nother drum roll):

                          "Raisin varieties depend on the type of grape used. Seedless varieties include the Sultana (also known as "Thompson Seedless" in the USA) and Flame. Raisins are typically sun-dried, but may also be "water-dipped," or dehydrated. "Golden raisins" are made from Sultanas, treated with Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) , and flame dried to give them their characteristic color." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_raisin

                          So you see ZB, Thompson's seedless raisins, "Golden Raisins, and Sultanas Grapes are all one in the same animal.....

                          So as some famous poet wrote once upon a time:

                          "A Raisin is a Raisin, Is a Raisin... "  Or something along them thar lines. LOL :x.

                          Vino es Veritas,

                          Jim aka Waldo. 


                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hmmmm. In the upper-left USA, raisins are dark, and when we want light-colored raisins, we ask for "golden raisins", or (drumroll) sultanas!
                          >
                          > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                          >
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Welp heck Baker,
                          > >
                          > > As usual ya'll Aussies always have to go your own way LOL....
                          > >
                          > > To me a dried grape is a friggin raisin - as it is to most of the world:
                          > >
                          > >----snip----
                          > > >
                          > > > That's the difference, you see. In Australia the dried fruit of the
                          > > sultana is not called a raisin but -- wait for it -- a SULTANA!
                          > > > The dried fruit we call a raisin is generally from a larger grape,
                          > > quite often a Waltham Cross or perhaps (memory a bit uncerain) Gordo
                          > > Blanco or others the names of which I don't know.
                          > > >
                          > > > Regards,
                          > > >
                          > > > The Baker
                          > ----snip----
                          >

                        • jamesonbeam1
                          BTW Z Bob, Thinks it was Gertrude Stein that said something like that - but she was talking bout some type of flower.... [;)] JB....
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 3, 2009
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                            BTW Z Bob,

                            Thinks it was Gertrude Stein that said something like that - but she was talking bout some type of flower.... ;)

                            JB....

                          • tgfoitwoods
                            Aw, Jim, Now you got me *all* confused, but if Gertrude Stein said it, there s a good chance my delicate sensibilities might be offended. She was big on
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 3, 2009
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                              Aw, Jim,

                              Now you got me *all* confused, but if Gertrude Stein said it, there's a good chance my delicate sensibilities might be offended.

                              She was big on raisins, wasn't she? (LOL)

                              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > BTW Z Bob,
                              >
                              > Thinks it was Gertrude Stein that said something like that - but she was
                              > talking bout some type of flower.... [;)]
                              >
                              > JB....
                              >
                            • waljaco
                              In OZ raisins usually have seeds, dried sultanas are labelled as a separate category. Quirky? wal
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 4, 2009
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                                In OZ raisins usually have seeds, dried sultanas are labelled as a separate category. Quirky?
                                wal
                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > ROTF ZB,
                                >
                                > Welppers, guess ya'll Maniacs must a have a huge Aussie population up
                                > there too.... [:D] [:D] [:D]
                                >
                                > Yes raisins are dark - especially the Thompson's seedless raisins, about
                                > which Baker and I were having a somewhat sophmoric, but really funny
                                > discussion on....
                                >
                                > But guess you didnt read my earlier post #36458 where, according to U.S.
                                > Code of Federal Regulations
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Federal_Regulations> - you ready
                                > - BUTA BING BUTA BANG BUTA BOOM:
                                >
                                > "The sultana grape is cultivated in the United States
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> under the name Thompson
                                > Seedless, named after William Thompson
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thompson_(viticulturist)> , a
                                > viticulturist <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viticulturist> who was an
                                > early grower in California <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California>
                                > and is sometimes credited with the variety's introduction.[4]
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-ahr-3> [5]
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-appellationameri\
                                > ca-4> According to the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Federal_Regulations> , the two
                                > names are synonymous.[6]
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-7cfr999.300-5>
                                > Virtually all of California raisin production (approximately 97% in
                                > 2000) and roughly one-third of California's total grape area is of this
                                > variety, making it the single most widely-planted variety.[7]
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-usda-6> [5]
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)#cite_note-appellationameri\
                                > ca-4> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape> )
                                >
                                > Now since the Sultana and Thompson's seedless dark raisins are one in
                                > the same, then golden raisins should be some other type right???
                                >
                                > But guess what... (nother drum roll):
                                >
                                > "Raisin varieties depend on the type of grape used. Seedless varieties
                                > include the Sultana <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)>
                                > (also known as "Thompson Seedless" in the USA) and Flame. Raisins are
                                > typically sun-dried, but may also be "water-dipped," or dehydrated.
                                > "Golden raisins" are made from Sultanas, treated with Sulfur Dioxide
                                > (SO2) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_Dioxide> , and flame dried
                                > to give them their characteristic color."
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_raisin
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_raisin>
                                >
                                > So you see ZB, Thompson's seedless raisins, "Golden Raisins, and
                                > Sultanas Grapes are all one in the same animal.....
                                >
                                > So as some famous poet wrote once upon a time:
                                >
                                > "A Raisin is a Raisin, Is a Raisin... " Or something along them thar
                                > lines. LOL [:x] .
                                >
                                > Vino es Veritas,
                                >
                                > Jim aka Waldo.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hmmmm. In the upper-left USA, raisins are dark, and when we want
                                > light-colored raisins, we ask for "golden raisins", or (drumroll)
                                > sultanas!
                                > >
                                > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                                > >
                                > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
                                > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Welp heck Baker,
                                > > >
                                > > > As usual ya'll Aussies always have to go your own way LOL....
                                > > >
                                > > > To me a dried grape is a friggin raisin - as it is to most of the
                                > world:
                                > > >
                                > > >----snip----
                                > > > >
                                > > > > That's the difference, you see. In Australia the dried fruit of
                                > the
                                > > > sultana is not called a raisin but -- wait for it -- a SULTANA!
                                > > > > The dried fruit we call a raisin is generally from a larger grape,
                                > > > quite often a Waltham Cross or perhaps (memory a bit uncerain) Gordo
                                > > > Blanco or others the names of which I don't know.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Regards,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The Baker
                                > > ----snip----
                                > >
                                >
                              • jamesonbeam1
                                I mean really Wal. Those Aussies even have the gaul to sell some of our Bourbons at a lower ABV then is legally allowed to call it Bourbon here in the US
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 4, 2009
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                                  I mean really Wal.  Those Aussies even have the gaul to sell some of our Bourbons at a lower ABV then is legally allowed to call it Bourbon here in the US  which is 40%.

                                  Have half a mind to e-mail our fearless leader - Pres. Obama and have him fly down to Oz in Air Force 1 to straighten their heads out down there .... ;)

                                  Vino es Veritas,

                                  Jim aka Waldo.


                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > In OZ raisins usually have seeds, dried sultanas are labelled as a separate category. Quirky?
                                  > wal

                                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ROTF ZB,
                                  > >
                                  > > Welppers, guess ya'll Maniacs must a have a huge Aussie population up
                                  > > there too.... [:D] [:D] [:D]
                                  > >

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