Re: Enzymes and Methanol
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
> Hi Dana,
> Im sure as you know, pectin in the primary cause of methanol in wine
> fermentations ( fruit based musts). Pectin is also the cause of
> methanol with grain based fermentations (mashes).
> Pectinases are definitely a way of breaking down and reducing the amount
> of pectin in a fruit must or grain mash and thereby reducing the amount
> of methanol in the fermentation and in the following distillation.
> Now I hear that Scottzyme Cinn-Free from Scotts Labs -
> <http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/enzymes.asp> is a great
> product for white wines to reduce vinyl phenols and at the same time
> release pectin trapped juices. For red wines, Scottzyme® Color Pro
> from Scotts Labs is a great product for red wines. [;)] [;)]
> Theres a good article I read about the differences between white and red
> grapes and their skins from Wynboer in S. Africa on Enzymes in
> Winemaking - http://www.wynboer.co.za/recentarticles/0411enzymes.php3
> Grappa has been discussed here and in Advanced Distillers, over the
> years and we have a member - Micio - miciofelice2003
> <http://profiles.yahoo.com/miciofelice2003> who lives in Italy and is
> our resident Grappa expert, if you want to get ahold of him.
> As far as methanol being produced from your distillations, if I recall
> your using a 30 gallon still from Col. Wilson. Before answering your
> question regarding worring about the methanol, I need you to clarify
> something. You said your removing the first 50-100 ml. per liter of
> distilled product. Now do you mean for every liter your removing 50 to
> 100 ml? If so, your wasting one hell of alot of good distillate.
> First off, as I stated in an earlier posting today, the idea that
> methanol comes out in foreshots is total mis-information and an old
> wives tale.
> Please read my earlier message I posted today -
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/36361> This
> pretty much explains it.
> Let me know what you ment by your statement above. Then maybe I can
> help out some more.
> Vino es Veritas,
> Jim aka Waldo.
> PS> Got any job openings at your winery for a grunt? Been looking for
> one :):).
> --- In email@example.com, "ACKERFORGE" <ackerforge@>
> > Hello fellow spirit makers/lovers,
> > From all I've read and learned, there is quite a connection between
> enzymes and fruit based mashes and the amount of methanol created as a
> result of using them. Primarily we are using enzymes in our winery to
> aid in the breaking down of the grapes to get as much of the desired
> properties by variety and color as possible. We use two different ones
> for reds and whites respectively.
> > That said, we are distilling grape wine into brandy, primarily for
> fortification purposes, but we are also going to start making some from
> white grapes/wine that will be barrel aged and hopefully beverage
> quality. Our apple brandy is made of fermented apple cider, and to my
> knowledge no enzymes are used in the process. But, back to grapes.
> > The white grape enzyme, as advertised in the producer's catalog says
> the following:
> > "...BrandXXXX is a purified pectinase with very low cinnamyl esterase
> activity which helps reduce the formation of vinyl phenols. It is used
> in white must for release of varietal aromas and aromatic precursors. In
> addition to releasing desirable pectin-trapped aromas, BrandXXXX aids in
> pressability, yield, settling, clarification, and filtration."
> > Not trying to be overly secretive, but as this is a brand name product
> from a company with whom I do a fair amount of business, I'd prefer not
> to discuss it in a public forum without their permission, especially as
> it is in the context of deadly poison. Should anyone be interested in
> discussing the particular product privately, I will gladly do so via
> > As to the product's effectiveness, as far as wine goes, it is a great
> product! With our white grapes, we crush and destem them, adding the
> enzyme (20 mL/Ton diluted to 10% in an H2O solution) during the crushing
> phase. Then we pump the grapes into our press, and allow them to soak
> for about an hour, then commence the press, pumping the juice to tank to
> chill, clarify, rack and then ferment.
> > The hulls of some white varieties, after pressing, are re-hydrated and
> then fermented and used for grappa production. Our red grape hulls after
> fermentation and pressing are re-hydrated, refermented, then distilled
> for grappa. A different, color-enhancing enzyme is used on the reds.
> > So how much do I have to worry (any more than usual) about methanol in
> the distillate? As to the foreshots or heads, we are removing at least
> the first 50-100 milliliters of distillate per liter of fermented liquid
> (wine) in the still, and using that for paint thinner or burning in our
> alcohol lamps for lab tests. We hold the still under 174 degrees F. or
> ~80 degrees C. until we are collecting nothing, then we turn the heat up
> to begin catching the main body of the run, stopping the collection in
> the mid-190's F. or 90 C. or when we get below 110 proof/55%. We do
> continue collecting liquor down to about 80 proof/40% (as long as it
> does not taste bad--checking constantly) which is later redistilled.
> > Also for the record, we use very good, scientiffically cultured yeast
> for every fermentation, fermenting in stainless steel, and temperature
> controlling the fermentations, preferring longer, cooler fermentations
> to hot, fast ones.
> > Thoughts or advice?
> > Thanks, Dana
I remove off the front end about 50-100 mL of distillate for each 20 L of mash or fermented wine in the pot. So if I have a 30 gallon batch or 113.5 Liter mash, I remove the first 285-579 mL of distillate only. Perhaps, in light of all that's been written, it may be a waste, but I figured better safe than sorry. I am sending samples to labs both from the heads and heart to see what the official ruling is. Thanks for your input. Dana