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Re: whiskey fermentation/temp question

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Hi Bill, The idea temp really depends on the strain of yeast your using, but as Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok. Remember that for every 10
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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      Hi Bill,

      The "idea temp" really depends on the strain of yeast your using, but as Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok. 

      Remember that for every 10 degree temp increase between their ideal  minimum/maximum operating temps (usually between 50F to 86F), Yeast will double their fermentation performance - as far as reproduction and alcohol production.  This is why Mason said it will add days to the fermentation when working with lower temps.

      However, again depending on the yeast strain, dont go beyond 86F (30C) as this is most strain's maximum.  Also remember that the faster the yeast work (ie. the hotter the temp) the more stress they are under.  This tends to create more cogeners and off-flavors.  Frankly, I perfer lower temps and a slower fermentation to prevent this (especially when making wines for brandies or neutral alcohol). 

      Regarding your second question for areation, this depends on the fermtation speed and again the yeast strain - some yeasts will ferment faster than others (especially Turbo yeasts).  What you have to consider and experiment with is how fast your fermentation is going through the various stages - ie - the lag, exponential growth phase and then the stationary phase which is the anarobic period when most alcohol is produced.  You may do some reading on this at: http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php in the Info base. 

      Usually I would aerate for no more than the first 4 to 6 hours.  The aerobic stages (lag through exponential growth) last no more than 24 to 36 hours before the stationary phase begins.

      The best way I have found to maintain temps in a fermentation when the outside temp gets too cold is by a heating pad that they use for water beds with an adjustable thermostat.  The fermentation bucket is then wrapped in either a blanket or better yet, some house insulation.

      HTH.

      Vino es Veritas,

      Jim aka Waldo.

       


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Mason.
      > Do you or anyone else use a submersible aquarium heater for mash temp control?
      > Bill
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" rye_junkie@ wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > What's the ideal temperature to maintain during whiskey fermentation (Smiley's thin mash) for both speed and taste? How far into the ferment is it still beneficial to aerate? I'm a day and a half in and though my mash is fizzing and corn/rye/barley sludge from the bottom occasionally rises to the surface and disperses, it's nowhere near as active as the molasses ferments I'm used to.
      > > > Bill
      > > >
      > >
      > > That first one is really a tough question Bill. Since temperature affects both Speed and flavor(at least contributed by the yeast) one could, in theory, play around with temperature and make a perfect whiskey for themselves. I am betting though that only the most discerning sense of taste and smell could tell the difference.
      > > Short answer: I like to keep a ferment between 79 and 84F. Seems when you start dipping into the 77 and below range you start adding DAYS to the ferment time.
      > > As for aerating the mash/wash. I never go past the 36 hour mark on AERATING but a gentle stirring to get the grains back into suspension, that I do daily. Usually creates quite an eruption. Gentle is the key.
      > >
      > > Mason
      > >
      >

    • billfitz49
      Thanks, Jim. Your information is very interesting. One reason I asked about the whiskey yeast is that I have no experience with it until now, as all my
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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        Thanks, Jim.
        Your information is very interesting. One reason I asked about the whiskey yeast is that I have no experience with it until now, as all my previous ferments have been molasses based washes which I try to keep a lot hotter, at 30C to 35C (86F to 95F). I use Danstil EDV 493 about which the White Labs literature says the following:

        TEMPERATURE TOLERANCE :
        Due to its tropical origin, the DANSTIL 493 EDV strain demonstrates excellent high temperature tolerance. The DANSTIL 493 EDV will tolerate up to 38C, however, the optimum ethanol yield is achieved when the fermentation temperature is between 30 and 36°C.

        As for the Prestige Whiskey Yeast, so far I haven't found any info as to it's temperature tolerances so your info and Mason's is appreciated.

        Regards,
        Bill


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Bill,
        >
        > The "idea temp" really depends on the strain of yeast your using, but as
        > Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok.
        >
        > Remember that for every 10 degree temp increase between their ideal
        > minimum/maximum operating temps (usually between 50F to 86F), Yeast will
        > double their fermentation performance - as far as reproduction and
        > alcohol production. This is why Mason said it will add days to the
        > fermentation when working with lower temps.
        >
        > However, again depending on the yeast strain, dont go beyond 86F (30C)
        > as this is most strain's maximum. Also remember that the faster the
        > yeast work (ie. the hotter the temp) the more stress they are under.
        > This tends to create more cogeners and off-flavors. Frankly, I perfer
        > lower temps and a slower fermentation to prevent this (especially when
        > making wines for brandies or neutral alcohol).
        >
        > Regarding your second question for areation, this depends on the
        > fermtation speed and again the yeast strain - some yeasts will ferment
        > faster than others (especially Turbo yeasts). What you have to consider
        > and experiment with is how fast your fermentation is going through the
        > various stages - ie - the lag, exponential growth phase and then the
        > stationary phase which is the anarobic period when most alcohol is
        > produced. You may do some reading on this at:
        > http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
        > <http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php>
        > in the Info base.
        >
        > Usually I would aerate for no more than the first 4 to 6 hours. The
        > aerobic stages (lag through exponential growth) last no more than 24 to
        > 36 hours before the stationary phase begins.
        >
        > The best way I have found to maintain temps in a fermentation when the
        > outside temp gets too cold is by a heating pad that they use for water
        > beds with an adjustable thermostat. The fermentation bucket is then
        > wrapped in either a blanket or better yet, some house insulation.
        >
        > HTH.
        >
        > Vino es Veritas,
        >
        > Jim aka Waldo.
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hey Bill, You are correct. Danstil 493 strain was originally cultivated from wild yeasts found on cane sugar plants in the carribean. This strain is more
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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          Hey Bill,

          You are correct. Danstil 493 strain was originally cultivated from wild
          yeasts found on cane sugar plants in the carribean. This strain is more
          tolerant to heat than others. However, look up some of the info on
          Lalvin yeast strains in the Info base like EC-1118 and the other wine /
          champaigne strains, and they have around a 30C max. level.

          But again - remember - you dont want the yeast to go crazyand get
          over-stressed.

          Vino es Veritas,

          Jim aka Waldo.






          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thanks, Jim.
          > Your information is very interesting. One reason I asked about the
          whiskey yeast is that I have no experience with it until now, as all my
          previous ferments have been molasses based washes which I try to keep a
          lot hotter, at 30C to 35C (86F to 95F). I use Danstil EDV 493 about
          which the White Labs literature says the following:
          >
          > TEMPERATURE TOLERANCE :
          > Due to its tropical origin, the DANSTIL 493 EDV strain demonstrates
          excellent high temperature tolerance. The DANSTIL 493 EDV will tolerate
          up to 38C, however, the optimum ethanol yield is achieved when the
          fermentation temperature is between 30 and 36°C.
          >
          > As for the Prestige Whiskey Yeast, so far I haven't found any info as
          to it's temperature tolerances so your info and Mason's is appreciated.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Bill
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
          wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Bill,
          > >
          > > The "idea temp" really depends on the strain of yeast your using,
          but as
          > > Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok.
          > >
          > > Remember that for every 10 degree temp increase between their ideal
          > > minimum/maximum operating temps (usually between 50F to 86F), Yeast
          will
          > > double their fermentation performance - as far as reproduction and
          > > alcohol production. This is why Mason said it will add days to the
          > > fermentation when working with lower temps.
          > >
          > > However, again depending on the yeast strain, dont go beyond 86F
          (30C)
          > > as this is most strain's maximum. Also remember that the faster the
          > > yeast work (ie. the hotter the temp) the more stress they are under.
          > > This tends to create more cogeners and off-flavors. Frankly, I
          perfer
          > > lower temps and a slower fermentation to prevent this (especially
          when
          > > making wines for brandies or neutral alcohol).
          > >
          > > Regarding your second question for areation, this depends on the
          > > fermtation speed and again the yeast strain - some yeasts will
          ferment
          > > faster than others (especially Turbo yeasts). What you have to
          consider
          > > and experiment with is how fast your fermentation is going through
          the
          > > various stages - ie - the lag, exponential growth phase and then the
          > > stationary phase which is the anarobic period when most alcohol is
          > > produced. You may do some reading on this at:
          > >
          http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
          > >
          <http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php>
          > > in the Info base.
          > >
          > > Usually I would aerate for no more than the first 4 to 6 hours. The
          > > aerobic stages (lag through exponential growth) last no more than 24
          to
          > > 36 hours before the stationary phase begins.
          > >
          > > The best way I have found to maintain temps in a fermentation when
          the
          > > outside temp gets too cold is by a heating pad that they use for
          water
          > > beds with an adjustable thermostat. The fermentation bucket is then
          > > wrapped in either a blanket or better yet, some house insulation.
          > >
          > > HTH.
          > >
          > > Vino es Veritas,
          > >
          > > Jim aka Waldo.
          > >
          >
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