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Re: whiskey fermentation/temp question

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  • rosnekcaj
    What seems to work for me in the mid-atlantic (all activity is indoors) is to wrap a blanket around the fermenter and add a heating pad if necessary.
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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      What seems to work for me in the mid-atlantic (all activity is indoors) is to wrap a blanket around the fermenter and add a heating pad if necessary.

      > > > Do you or anyone else use a submersible aquarium heater for mash temp control?
      > > > Bill
      > >
      > >
      > > This past winter here in north Florida I switched to a 8 gallon SS stock pot for my fermenter and set it on a heating pad. The metal helped transfer heat and regulate the temp much better than using the heating pad with one of my plastic fermenters.
      > > The winter before I used an aquarium heater but used it in a water bath and not directly in the wash/mash. It was very consistent and allowed me to ferment out in my shop even during weeks when we were in the 30's(Fahrenheit).
      > > I have decent size closets in my house and I set one of those up with some shelves and turned it into a nice little somewhat climate controlled fermenting room about a year ago. I try to keep my house around 75F in the summer so temp regulation is not an issue but in the winter I will let it dip into the 60's(20C) and the heating pad seems to do the trick for me.
      > >
      > > Mason
      > >
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hi Bill, The idea temp really depends on the strain of yeast your using, but as Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok. Remember that for every 10
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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        Hi Bill,

        The "idea temp" really depends on the strain of yeast your using, but as Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok. 

        Remember that for every 10 degree temp increase between their ideal  minimum/maximum operating temps (usually between 50F to 86F), Yeast will double their fermentation performance - as far as reproduction and alcohol production.  This is why Mason said it will add days to the fermentation when working with lower temps.

        However, again depending on the yeast strain, dont go beyond 86F (30C) as this is most strain's maximum.  Also remember that the faster the yeast work (ie. the hotter the temp) the more stress they are under.  This tends to create more cogeners and off-flavors.  Frankly, I perfer lower temps and a slower fermentation to prevent this (especially when making wines for brandies or neutral alcohol). 

        Regarding your second question for areation, this depends on the fermtation speed and again the yeast strain - some yeasts will ferment faster than others (especially Turbo yeasts).  What you have to consider and experiment with is how fast your fermentation is going through the various stages - ie - the lag, exponential growth phase and then the stationary phase which is the anarobic period when most alcohol is produced.  You may do some reading on this at: http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php in the Info base. 

        Usually I would aerate for no more than the first 4 to 6 hours.  The aerobic stages (lag through exponential growth) last no more than 24 to 36 hours before the stationary phase begins.

        The best way I have found to maintain temps in a fermentation when the outside temp gets too cold is by a heating pad that they use for water beds with an adjustable thermostat.  The fermentation bucket is then wrapped in either a blanket or better yet, some house insulation.

        HTH.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.

         


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Mason.
        > Do you or anyone else use a submersible aquarium heater for mash temp control?
        > Bill
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" rye_junkie@ wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > What's the ideal temperature to maintain during whiskey fermentation (Smiley's thin mash) for both speed and taste? How far into the ferment is it still beneficial to aerate? I'm a day and a half in and though my mash is fizzing and corn/rye/barley sludge from the bottom occasionally rises to the surface and disperses, it's nowhere near as active as the molasses ferments I'm used to.
        > > > Bill
        > > >
        > >
        > > That first one is really a tough question Bill. Since temperature affects both Speed and flavor(at least contributed by the yeast) one could, in theory, play around with temperature and make a perfect whiskey for themselves. I am betting though that only the most discerning sense of taste and smell could tell the difference.
        > > Short answer: I like to keep a ferment between 79 and 84F. Seems when you start dipping into the 77 and below range you start adding DAYS to the ferment time.
        > > As for aerating the mash/wash. I never go past the 36 hour mark on AERATING but a gentle stirring to get the grains back into suspension, that I do daily. Usually creates quite an eruption. Gentle is the key.
        > >
        > > Mason
        > >
        >

      • billfitz49
        Thanks, Jim. Your information is very interesting. One reason I asked about the whiskey yeast is that I have no experience with it until now, as all my
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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          Thanks, Jim.
          Your information is very interesting. One reason I asked about the whiskey yeast is that I have no experience with it until now, as all my previous ferments have been molasses based washes which I try to keep a lot hotter, at 30C to 35C (86F to 95F). I use Danstil EDV 493 about which the White Labs literature says the following:

          TEMPERATURE TOLERANCE :
          Due to its tropical origin, the DANSTIL 493 EDV strain demonstrates excellent high temperature tolerance. The DANSTIL 493 EDV will tolerate up to 38C, however, the optimum ethanol yield is achieved when the fermentation temperature is between 30 and 36°C.

          As for the Prestige Whiskey Yeast, so far I haven't found any info as to it's temperature tolerances so your info and Mason's is appreciated.

          Regards,
          Bill


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Bill,
          >
          > The "idea temp" really depends on the strain of yeast your using, but as
          > Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok.
          >
          > Remember that for every 10 degree temp increase between their ideal
          > minimum/maximum operating temps (usually between 50F to 86F), Yeast will
          > double their fermentation performance - as far as reproduction and
          > alcohol production. This is why Mason said it will add days to the
          > fermentation when working with lower temps.
          >
          > However, again depending on the yeast strain, dont go beyond 86F (30C)
          > as this is most strain's maximum. Also remember that the faster the
          > yeast work (ie. the hotter the temp) the more stress they are under.
          > This tends to create more cogeners and off-flavors. Frankly, I perfer
          > lower temps and a slower fermentation to prevent this (especially when
          > making wines for brandies or neutral alcohol).
          >
          > Regarding your second question for areation, this depends on the
          > fermtation speed and again the yeast strain - some yeasts will ferment
          > faster than others (especially Turbo yeasts). What you have to consider
          > and experiment with is how fast your fermentation is going through the
          > various stages - ie - the lag, exponential growth phase and then the
          > stationary phase which is the anarobic period when most alcohol is
          > produced. You may do some reading on this at:
          > http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
          > <http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php>
          > in the Info base.
          >
          > Usually I would aerate for no more than the first 4 to 6 hours. The
          > aerobic stages (lag through exponential growth) last no more than 24 to
          > 36 hours before the stationary phase begins.
          >
          > The best way I have found to maintain temps in a fermentation when the
          > outside temp gets too cold is by a heating pad that they use for water
          > beds with an adjustable thermostat. The fermentation bucket is then
          > wrapped in either a blanket or better yet, some house insulation.
          >
          > HTH.
          >
          > Vino es Veritas,
          >
          > Jim aka Waldo.
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          Hey Bill, You are correct. Danstil 493 strain was originally cultivated from wild yeasts found on cane sugar plants in the carribean. This strain is more
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 28, 2009
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            Hey Bill,

            You are correct. Danstil 493 strain was originally cultivated from wild
            yeasts found on cane sugar plants in the carribean. This strain is more
            tolerant to heat than others. However, look up some of the info on
            Lalvin yeast strains in the Info base like EC-1118 and the other wine /
            champaigne strains, and they have around a 30C max. level.

            But again - remember - you dont want the yeast to go crazyand get
            over-stressed.

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.






            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Thanks, Jim.
            > Your information is very interesting. One reason I asked about the
            whiskey yeast is that I have no experience with it until now, as all my
            previous ferments have been molasses based washes which I try to keep a
            lot hotter, at 30C to 35C (86F to 95F). I use Danstil EDV 493 about
            which the White Labs literature says the following:
            >
            > TEMPERATURE TOLERANCE :
            > Due to its tropical origin, the DANSTIL 493 EDV strain demonstrates
            excellent high temperature tolerance. The DANSTIL 493 EDV will tolerate
            up to 38C, however, the optimum ethanol yield is achieved when the
            fermentation temperature is between 30 and 36°C.
            >
            > As for the Prestige Whiskey Yeast, so far I haven't found any info as
            to it's temperature tolerances so your info and Mason's is appreciated.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Bill
            >
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@
            wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Bill,
            > >
            > > The "idea temp" really depends on the strain of yeast your using,
            but as
            > > Mason stated, between 74 to 84F is perfectly ok.
            > >
            > > Remember that for every 10 degree temp increase between their ideal
            > > minimum/maximum operating temps (usually between 50F to 86F), Yeast
            will
            > > double their fermentation performance - as far as reproduction and
            > > alcohol production. This is why Mason said it will add days to the
            > > fermentation when working with lower temps.
            > >
            > > However, again depending on the yeast strain, dont go beyond 86F
            (30C)
            > > as this is most strain's maximum. Also remember that the faster the
            > > yeast work (ie. the hotter the temp) the more stress they are under.
            > > This tends to create more cogeners and off-flavors. Frankly, I
            perfer
            > > lower temps and a slower fermentation to prevent this (especially
            when
            > > making wines for brandies or neutral alcohol).
            > >
            > > Regarding your second question for areation, this depends on the
            > > fermtation speed and again the yeast strain - some yeasts will
            ferment
            > > faster than others (especially Turbo yeasts). What you have to
            consider
            > > and experiment with is how fast your fermentation is going through
            the
            > > various stages - ie - the lag, exponential growth phase and then the
            > > stationary phase which is the anarobic period when most alcohol is
            > > produced. You may do some reading on this at:
            > >
            http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
            > >
            <http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php>
            > > in the Info base.
            > >
            > > Usually I would aerate for no more than the first 4 to 6 hours. The
            > > aerobic stages (lag through exponential growth) last no more than 24
            to
            > > 36 hours before the stationary phase begins.
            > >
            > > The best way I have found to maintain temps in a fermentation when
            the
            > > outside temp gets too cold is by a heating pad that they use for
            water
            > > beds with an adjustable thermostat. The fermentation bucket is then
            > > wrapped in either a blanket or better yet, some house insulation.
            > >
            > > HTH.
            > >
            > > Vino es Veritas,
            > >
            > > Jim aka Waldo.
            > >
            >
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