Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Mashing

Expand Messages
  • David Holden
    ... nearby ... Mashing being the new topic of discussion here. What recipe are you using? ... this group asking why their all grain mash didnt work only to
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 3, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      >> I guess the devil is in the details like usual. Well I'm in the 
      >> experimenting stages. I bought a 50# bag of cracked corn from a nearby 
      >> farm supply store. Tonight I'm thinking about making my first mash 


      >Hello David,
      >Are you new to the hobby? Do you have any all grain experience? "Mashing" being the new topic of discussion here. What recipe >are you using?
      >I ask all of this because more than once we have seen folks come to this group asking why their all grain mash didnt work only to 

      Yes, perfectly new.  Also not afraid to fail.  I'm reading through some recipes and haven't decided on one yet.

      One thing I was going to do is let corn mash ferment without adding yeast. Then some with it.  Then some using recipes off this list and elsewhere.  I school children at home so this is fun for them too.

      David
      St. Louis
    • Trid
      ... Sugar wash...period. Start basic and work your way up. Now s not the time for grain. It s the whole walk before you run principle at work. Get going
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 3, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, David Holden
        > >Hello David,
        > >Are you new to the hobby? Do you have any all grain experience?
        > "Mashing" being the new topic of discussion here. What recipe >are you
        > using?
        > >I ask all of this because more than once we have seen folks come to
        > this group asking why their all grain mash didnt work only to
        >
        > Yes, perfectly new. Also not afraid to fail. I'm reading through
        > some recipes and haven't decided on one yet.

        Sugar wash...period.
        Start basic and work your way up. Now's not the time for grain. It's the whole "walk before you run" principle at work. Get going on a simple method first, as there are fewer potential "gotchas" that could very well lead to wasted money right or worse (I'll tell you about "worse" in a bit).

        > One thing I was going to do is let corn mash ferment without adding
        > yeast.

        By this I assume you mean by allowing wild yeast to colonize? Not a good idea...and has potential for disaster (getting closer to the "worse" I was telling you about).

        > Then some with it.

        When it comes time to use corn, this is a must.

        > Then some using recipes off this list and
        > elsewhere. I school children at home so this is fun for them too.

        OK, here's my story...learn from it (as have I...and the Mrs. will NEVER let me live it down).

        Once upon a time...
        When I was new to the hobby, I hadn't a clue about, well, everything. I had just figured out that you're not starting with a bag of sugar, a packet of yeast and distilling the same on the same day. I got a few sugar washes under my fingernails and was given a 50 lb. bag of cracked corn from a friend. Simple, right? Corn in bucket, water in bucket, yeast in bucket...yeast eats corn, yeast makes alcohol, distills into white lightening, right?
        (stick with me here)
        Day one...no bubbly goodnes.
        Day two...less than no bubbly bubbly. Say, what happens if I toss in a little sugar? Hey look, bubbles :)
        Day three...no more bubbles.
        Day fourfivesixseveneightnineten...still no bubbles, but hey, I'll be patient.
        Day eleven, open up the bucket...
        OHMYGODITSHIDEOUSLYFOUL...RUN!!! Oh crap...put the lid back on...THEN RUN!!!
        Worse, it not only stunk _me_ out of house and home, but also SWMBO [1] as well as the houseguest who was staying with us at the time.

        Thus I learned what an important part of the whole process enzymes play[2]...and that I failed to use them. I also learned, the hard way, that corn has the potential to be an olfactory nightmare in a bucket. I have since learned from my mistake (yet SWMBO will not let me live it down...I said that already, didn't I).

        To make a long story sh...er, too late.
        Bottom line, start simple and then build on that experience

        Trid
        -who'd a thunk the school of hard knocks had postgraduate programs?


        [1] She Who Must Be Obeyed
        [2] Grain is not fermentable by yeast, as it's primarily starch. Enzymes are used (in the process called "mashing") to break starches into sugars which are *then* fermentable by yeast. Putting yeast with grain, unmashed, leads to rot, not fermentation. Did I mention SWMBO will never let me live that down?
      • M W
        ... Aaah. You have a female cat too, then.
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
          > [1] She Who Must Be Obeyed

          Aaah. You have a female cat too, then.
        • Trid
          ... No...that would be the naked rat monkey . SWMBO has thumbs :) Trid -but they behave similarly
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, M W <rd232d@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
            > > [1] She Who Must Be Obeyed
            >
            > Aaah. You have a female cat too, then.

            No...that would be the "naked rat monkey". SWMBO has thumbs :)

            Trid
            -but they behave similarly
          • gavinflett
            I have been mashing for a little while now (27 batches). I have always mashed with a 4:1 ratio of water to grain and that got me 1.062 gravity Now I have
            Message 5 of 21 , May 6, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              I have been mashing for a little while now (27 batches). I have always mashed with a 4:1 ratio of water to grain and that got me 1.062 gravity

              Now I have increased the ratio to 3.25:1 to shoot for a gravity of approximately 1.080. The thing is I am not getting that reading, I am still getting a 1.062 reading.

              I am mashing for 60 minutes with an average temperature of 65.5C, so what am I doing wrong? How long do I have to mash 8.3kg of grain in 27L of water?
            • tgfoitwoods
              Gavin, I don t have a direct answer to your problem, but our favorite beer is a strong scotch ale with water-grain-SG numbers very much like what you are
              Message 6 of 21 , May 7, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Gavin,

                I don't have a direct answer to your problem, but our favorite beer is a
                strong scotch ale with water-grain-SG numbers very much like what you
                are trying to do. In metric, it's 8.64kg of (mixed) grains, in 22.6 l
                (before sparging) of water. While there may have been a wee bit of sugar
                left on the grain (but not a helluva lot), after sparging I had 26.4
                liters of 1.076 wort. Note that mashing was 75 minutes at 68.3 C.

                I'd suggest studying the differences between this recipe and what you
                are doing, and if that doesn't work, make some of the beer and just
                chill out. It's wonderful stuff, and has won a lot of brewing contests.

                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gavinflett" <gavin_flett@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I have been mashing for a little while now (27 batches). I have always
                mashed with a 4:1 ratio of water to grain and that got me 1.062 gravity
                >
                > Now I have increased the ratio to 3.25:1 to shoot for a gravity of
                approximately 1.080. The thing is I am not getting that reading, I am
                still getting a 1.062 reading.
                >
                > I am mashing for 60 minutes with an average temperature of 65.5C, so
                what am I doing wrong? How long do I have to mash 8.3kg of grain in 27L
                of water?
                *************THE Scotch Ale Recipe******************
                This recipe makes a 6 gallon batch of Scotch ale.

                Brewing Method: All Grain
                Yeast: Nottingham Ale
                Yeast starter: pitched dry
                Batch Size: 6 gal Scotch ale
                Original Gravity: 1088
                Final Gravity: 1025
                Alcohol Content: 8.5 %
                Total Grains: 19 Lbs.
                Boiling Time: 70 mins.

                Grain Bill:

                7 lbs British Pale Ale Malt
                7 lbs American 2-row
                1 lbs cara-pils
                1 lb Munich Malt (8-10 Lov)
                2 lb medium crystal malt 60
                4 oz chocolate malt
                4 oz roasted barley
                8 oz Canadian honey malt

                Hop Bill: Scotch ale

                1/2 oz fuggles whole hops boil 70 mins
                1/2 oz fuggles whole hops 10 mins.
                Add Irish moss for the last 10 mins

                Mash Schedule:

                Mash at 155 for 75 mins mash out at 170 5 mins
                Sparge 170
                1 tsp gypsum in 6 gallons mash water (my water is soft)
                2 tsp gypsum in 8 gallons sparge water
                Sparge to get ~7 gallons. In a 70-minute boil this will yield about 6
                gallons.


                **********************************************************8

                12/31/07
                Scotch ale SG before boil 1.076
                Scotch ale SG after boil 1.085

                10/10/10
              • Adam Fordham
                Don t know if this helps as I m not a beer Brewer but I get a noticeable increase in my mashing effecincy when I adjust my Ph to 5 or 6.
                Message 7 of 21 , May 7, 2011
                • 0 Attachment

                  Don't know if this helps as I'm not a beer Brewer but I get a noticeable increase in my mashing effecincy when I adjust my Ph to 5 or 6.


                  Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                  From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>;
                  To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mashing
                  Sent: Sat, May 7, 2011 4:16:26 PM

                   

                  Gavin,

                  I don't have a direct answer to your problem, but our favorite beer is a
                  strong scotch ale with water-grain-SG numbers very much like what you
                  are trying to do. In metric, it's 8.64kg of (mixed) grains, in 22.6 l
                  (before sparging) of water. While there may have been a wee bit of sugar
                  left on the grain (but not a helluva lot), after sparging I had 26.4
                  liters of 1.076 wort. Note that mashing was 75 minutes at 68.3 C.

                  I'd suggest studying the differences between this recipe and what you
                  are doing, and if that doesn't work, make some of the beer and just
                  chill out. It's wonderful stuff, and has won a lot of brewing contests.

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gavinflett" <gavin_flett@...>
                  wrote:

                  >
                  > I have been mashing for a little while now (27 batches). I have always
                  mashed with a 4:1 ratio of water to grain and that got me 1.062 gravity
                  >
                  > Now I have increased the ratio to 3.25:1 to shoot for a gravity of
                  approximately 1.080. The thing is I am not getting that reading, I am
                  still getting a 1.062 reading.
                  >
                  > I am mashing for 60 minutes with an average temperature of 65.5C, so
                  what am I doing wrong? How long do I have to mash 8.3kg of grain in 27L
                  of water?
                  *************THE Scotch Ale Recipe******************
                  This recipe makes a 6 gallon batch of Scotch ale.

                  Brewing Method: All Grain
                  Yeast: Nottingham Ale
                  Yeast starter: pitched dry
                  Batch Size: 6 gal Scotch ale
                  Original Gravity: 1088
                  Final Gravity: 1025
                  Alcohol Content: 8.5 %
                  Total Grains: 19 Lbs.
                  Boiling Time: 70 mins.

                  Grain Bill:

                  7 lbs British Pale Ale Malt
                  7 lbs American 2-row
                  1 lbs cara-pils
                  1 lb Munich Malt (8-10 Lov)
                  2 lb medium crystal malt 60
                  4 oz chocolate malt
                  4 oz roasted barley
                  8 oz Canadian honey malt

                  Hop Bill: Scotch ale

                  1/2 oz fuggles whole hops boil 70 mins
                  1/2 oz fuggles whole hops 10 mins.
                  Add Irish moss for the last 10 mins

                  Mash Schedule:

                  Mash at 155 for 75 mins mash out at 170 5 mins
                  Sparge 170
                  1 tsp gypsum in 6 gallons mash water (my water is soft)
                  2 tsp gypsum in 8 gallons sparge water
                  Sparge to get ~7 gallons. In a 70-minute boil this will yield about 6
                  gallons.

                  **********************************************************8

                  12/31/07
                  Scotch ale SG before boil 1.076
                  Scotch ale SG after boil 1.085

                  10/10/10

                • Gavin Flett
                  To Zymurgy an Adam, Thanks for the replies, I am actually going for Whisky not beer but I m sure that makes no difference the process is almost the same. I
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 9, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    To Zymurgy an Adam, 

                    Thanks for the replies, I am actually going for Whisky not beer but I'm sure that makes no difference the process is almost the same. I have been experimenting with using the backset, and although it's traditionally used in a corn mash I have been using it in barley. I am not sure if this is part of what's wrong (using it in a barley mash vice corn), but judging by what Adam said maybe my pH is too low as I have been increasing the amount of backset in each subsequent batch (I am up to using 50% now and will stop there).

                    One question I do have though, will I get a higher SG if I mash it for longer. Or do I just have to reach the 40 minute mark and that's as good as it's going to get?

                    And one Q for you Zymurgy, how did you manage to get more wort after sparging? Every time I do it I lose about 20% of my liquid to the grain, and no matter how long I leave it, it's disappeared.


                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    From: zymurgybob@...
                    Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 16:16:26 +0000
                    Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mashing

                     
                    Gavin,

                    I don't have a direct answer to your problem, but our favorite beer is a
                    strong scotch ale with water-grain-SG numbers very much like what you
                    are trying to do. In metric, it's 8.64kg of (mixed) grains, in 22.6 l
                    (before sparging) of water. While there may have been a wee bit of sugar
                    left on the grain (but not a helluva lot), after sparging I had 26.4
                    liters of 1.076 wort. Note that mashing was 75 minutes at 68.3 C.

                    I'd suggest studying the differences between this recipe and what you
                    are doing, and if that doesn't work, make some of the beer and just
                    chill out. It's wonderful stuff, and has won a lot of brewing contests.

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gavinflett" <gavin_flett@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I have been mashing for a little while now (27 batches). I have always
                    mashed with a 4:1 ratio of water to grain and that got me 1.062 gravity
                    >
                    > Now I have increased the ratio to 3.25:1 to shoot for a gravity of
                    approximately 1.080. The thing is I am not getting that reading, I am
                    still getting a 1.062 reading.
                    >
                    > I am mashing for 60 minutes with an average temperature of 65.5C, so
                    what am I doing wrong? How long do I have to mash 8.3kg of grain in 27L
                    of water?
                    *************THE Scotch Ale Recipe******************
                    This recipe makes a 6 gallon batch of Scotch ale.

                    Brewing Method: All Grain
                    Yeast: Nottingham Ale
                    Yeast starter: pitched dry
                    Batch Size: 6 gal Scotch ale
                    Original Gravity: 1088
                    Final Gravity: 1025
                    Alcohol Content: 8.5 %
                    Total Grains: 19 Lbs.
                    Boiling Time: 70 mins.

                    Grain Bill:

                    7 lbs British Pale Ale Malt
                    7 lbs American 2-row
                    1 lbs cara-pils
                    1 lb Munich Malt (8-10 Lov)
                    2 lb medium crystal malt 60
                    4 oz chocolate malt
                    4 oz roasted barley
                    8 oz Canadian honey malt

                    Hop Bill: Scotch ale

                    1/2 oz fuggles whole hops boil 70 mins
                    1/2 oz fuggles whole hops 10 mins.
                    Add Irish moss for the last 10 mins

                    Mash Schedule:

                    Mash at 155 for 75 mins mash out at 170 5 mins
                    Sparge 170
                    1 tsp gypsum in 6 gallons mash water (my water is soft)
                    2 tsp gypsum in 8 gallons sparge water
                    Sparge to get ~7 gallons. In a 70-minute boil this will yield about 6
                    gallons.

                    **********************************************************8

                    12/31/07
                    Scotch ale SG before boil 1.076
                    Scotch ale SG after boil 1.085

                    10/10/10


                  • tgfoitwoods
                    Gavin, When you are comparing making beer and making barley whisky, the processes are almost identical, and the same principles apply. Of course whisky-wash
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 9, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gavin,

                      When you are comparing making beer and making barley whisky, the
                      processes are almost identical, and the same principles apply. Of course
                      whisky-wash beer has no hops, and beer has no way to get backset, but
                      other than that, the comparison holds.

                      Technically, "lautering" is draining the liquid off the spent grain, and
                      "sparging" is rinsing that lautered, spent grain with additional hot
                      water to get that last bit of sugar. For that beer recipe I sparge with
                      enough additional water to get 7 gallons total wort, before the boil.
                      For mashing barley, I've never gone longer than 90 minutes, and that's
                      always been plenty. I've never worried about adjusting pH for mashing,
                      but maybe I should with con and backset.

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > To Zymurgy an Adam,
                      > Thanks for the replies, I am actually going for Whisky not beer but
                      I'm sure that makes no difference the process is almost the same. I have
                      been experimenting with using the backset, and although it's
                      traditionally used in a corn mash I have been using it in barley. I am
                      not sure if this is part of what's wrong (using it in a barley mash vice
                      corn), but judging by what Adam said maybe my pH is too low as I have
                      been increasing the amount of backset in each subsequent batch (I am up
                      to using 50% now and will stop there).
                      > One question I do have though, will I get a higher SG if I mash it for
                      longer. Or do I just have to reach the 40 minute mark and that's as good
                      as it's going to get?
                      > And one Q for you Zymurgy, how did you manage to get more wort after
                      sparging? Every time I do it I lose about 20% of my liquid to the grain,
                      and no matter how long I leave it, it's disappeared.
                      >
                      ----snip---
                    • Gavin Flett
                      Great Bob thanks again, If my pH is to low and I need to raise it, what can I do to raise it other than diluter the wash with more water? To:
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 9, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Great Bob thanks again, 

                        If my pH is to low and I need to raise it, what can I do to raise it other than diluter the wash with more water?


                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        From: zymurgybob@...
                        Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 19:53:26 +0000
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mashing

                         
                        Gavin,

                        When you are comparing making beer and making barley whisky, the
                        processes are almost identical, and the same principles apply. Of course
                        whisky-wash beer has no hops, and beer has no way to get backset, but
                        other than that, the comparison holds.

                        Technically, "lautering" is draining the liquid off the spent grain, and
                        "sparging" is rinsing that lautered, spent grain with additional hot
                        water to get that last bit of sugar. For that beer recipe I sparge with
                        enough additional water to get 7 gallons total wort, before the boil.
                        For mashing barley, I've never gone longer than 90 minutes, and that's
                        always been plenty. I've never worried about adjusting pH for mashing,
                        but maybe I should with con and backset.

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > To Zymurgy an Adam,
                        > Thanks for the replies, I am actually going for Whisky not beer but
                        I'm sure that makes no difference the process is almost the same. I have
                        been experimenting with using the backset, and although it's
                        traditionally used in a corn mash I have been using it in barley. I am
                        not sure if this is part of what's wrong (using it in a barley mash vice
                        corn), but judging by what Adam said maybe my pH is too low as I have
                        been increasing the amount of backset in each subsequent batch (I am up
                        to using 50% now and will stop there).
                        > One question I do have though, will I get a higher SG if I mash it for
                        longer. Or do I just have to reach the 40 minute mark and that's as good
                        as it's going to get?
                        > And one Q for you Zymurgy, how did you manage to get more wort after
                        sparging? Every time I do it I lose about 20% of my liquid to the grain,
                        and no matter how long I leave it, it's disappeared.
                        >
                        ----snip---


                      • tgfoitwoods
                        Gavin, This gies you better detail than anything I can dream up. http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-6.html I also like it because he agrees with my
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 9, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Gavin,

                          This gies you better detail than anything I can dream up.

                          http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-6.html

                          I also like it because he agrees with my "Don't screw with the pH unless you know absolutely for sure it's what's biting your butt, and absolutely sure why" principle.  Un-enlightened putzing with pH can open many worm cans. If you absolutely must raise pH, winemakers go with calcium carbonate or potassium carbonate because they don't mess up flavor/mouthfeel much, but for whisky, sodium carbonate or bicarbonate will work, 'cause none of that stuff goes through the still.

                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Great Bob thanks again,
                          > If my pH is to low and I need to raise it, what can I do to raise it other than diluter the wash with more water?
                          >
                          >----snip----
                        • Gavin Flett
                          That is a plethora of good info, thank you kindly for that. Do you think that it s safe to apply the principles of beer making to Whiskey making. It gets
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 9, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            That is a plethora of good info, thank you kindly for that. Do you think that it's safe to apply the principles of beer making to Whiskey making. It gets pretty complicated with the chemical composition of the water and the flavours it introduces into the brew, does all of that apply to Whiskey, since after all it's being distilled?


                            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            From: zymurgybob@...
                            Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 22:54:33 +0000
                            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mashing

                             
                            Gavin,

                            This gies you better detail than anything I can dream up.

                            http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-6.html

                            I also like it because he agrees with my "Don't screw with the pH unless you know absolutely for sure it's what's biting your butt, and absolutely sure why" principle.  Un-enlightened putzing with pH can open many worm cans. If you absolutely must raise pH, winemakers go with calcium carbonate or potassium carbonate because they don't mess up flavor/mouthfeel much, but for whisky, sodium carbonate or bicarbonate will work, 'cause none of that stuff goes through the still.

                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gavin Flett <gavin_flett@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Great Bob thanks again,
                            > If my pH is to low and I need to raise it, what can I do to raise it other than diluter the wash with more water?
                            >
                            >----snip----

                          • tampagamer
                            That is a plethora of good info, thank you kindly for that. Do you think that it s safe to apply the principles of beer making to Whiskey making. It gets
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 9, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment

                               

                              That is a plethora of good info, thank you kindly for that. Do you think that it's safe to apply the principles of beer making to Whiskey making. It gets pretty complicated with the chemical composition of the water and the flavours it introduces into the brew, does all of that apply to Whiskey, since after all it's being

                               

                              When using a reflux still it does not matter as crap in makes good out

                              However when using a pot still is appositely matters as your transmitting flavor with the alcohol  so only good in becomes good out

                              Magnus brewer

                            • jamesonbeam1
                              Definitely Tamp, Read ZB s prior responses to this thread. Beer making and whiskey making are the same except for the ingredients - no hops. JB. aka Waldo.
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 10, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Definitely Tamp,

                                Read ZB's prior responses to this thread. Beer making and whiskey
                                making are the same except for the ingredients - no hops.

                                JB. aka Waldo.

                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tampagamer" <tampagamer@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > That is a plethora of good info, thank you kindly for that. Do you
                                think
                                > that it's safe to apply the principles of beer making to Whiskey
                                making. It
                                > gets pretty complicated with the chemical composition of the water and
                                the
                                > flavours it introduces into the brew, does all of that apply to
                                Whiskey,
                                > since after all it's being
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > When using a reflux still it does not matter as crap in makes good out
                                >
                                > However when using a pot still is appositely matters as your
                                transmitting
                                > flavor with the alcohol so only good in becomes good out
                                >
                                > Magnus brewer
                                >
                              • Gavin Flett
                                Got it...... it would seem then that Whiskey making is faaaaaaaar more complex than I had originally anticipated. The more I know, the more I find out that I
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 10, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Got it...... it would seem then that Whiskey making is faaaaaaaar more complex than I had originally anticipated. The more I know, the more I find out that I don't know. Thanks guys, I will now retire to my electronic library to read for a month or five.


                                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: jamesonbeam1@...
                                  Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:29:12 +0000
                                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mashing

                                   
                                  Definitely Tamp,

                                  Read ZB's prior responses to this thread. Beer making and whiskey
                                  making are the same except for the ingredients - no hops.

                                  JB. aka Waldo.

                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tampagamer" <tampagamer@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > That is a plethora of good info, thank you kindly for that. Do you
                                  think
                                  > that it's safe to apply the principles of beer making to Whiskey
                                  making. It
                                  > gets pretty complicated with the chemical composition of the water and
                                  the
                                  > flavours it introduces into the brew, does all of that apply to
                                  Whiskey,
                                  > since after all it's being
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > When using a reflux still it does not matter as crap in makes good out
                                  >
                                  > However when using a pot still is appositely matters as your
                                  transmitting
                                  > flavor with the alcohol so only good in becomes good out
                                  >
                                  > Magnus brewer
                                  >


                                • jkmccull
                                  About 4 years back I made bourbon using the recipe of 5 lbs cracked corn, 1 lbs of cracked rye and 3.4 lbs of 6-row malted barley. I mashed the mixture,
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 16, 2014
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    About 4 years back I made bourbon using the recipe of 5 lbs cracked corn, 1 lbs of cracked rye and 3.4 lbs of 6-row malted barley. I mashed the mixture, fermented, distilled and ended up with what I considered a good bourbon. I let the bourbon age for a few months and started sipping it. I gave some to my son-in-aw who stored it away with some charred white oak strips.  Once I started sipping the bourbon, it disappeared pretty fast. A month or so ago my son-in-law and I tasted the now 4 year old bourbon and good had turned to great. Now I have a hankering to make some more of the bourbon.

                                     

                                    I want to change my mashing procedure to see if I can increase the yield and make the process a little easier. I want to vigorously boil the cracked corn with the intent of extracting as much of the starch as possible. After the boiling I will strain out all the corn solids and save then. Then I will mash the corn starch, malted barley and cracked rye to convert to sugar. After the mashing, I will strain out all the solids and then ferment the resulting mixture with the corn, barley and rye solids in a mesh bag.

                                     

                                    Will this work?

                                  • Jay cell
                                    How much water did you add to the mash?
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 16, 2014
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      How much water did you add to the mash?
                                      On Apr 16, 2014, at 3:43 PM, <jkmccull@...> <jkmccull@...> wrote:



                                      About 4 years back I made bourbon using the recipe of 5 lbs cracked corn, 1 lbs of cracked rye and 3.4 lbs of 6-row malted barley. I mashed the mixture, fermented, distilled and ended up with what I considered a good bourbon. I let the bourbon age for a few months and started sipping it. I gave some to my son-in-aw who stored it away with some charred white oak strips.  Once I started sipping the bourbon, it disappeared pretty fast. A month or so ago my son-in-law and I tasted the now 4 year old bourbon and good had turned to great. Now I have a hankering to make some more of the bourbon.

                                       

                                      I want to change my mashing procedure to see if I can increase the yield and make the process a little easier. I want to vigorously boil the cracked corn with the intent of extracting as much of the starch as possible. After the boiling I will strain out all the corn solids and save then. Then I will mash the corn starch, malted barley and cracked rye to convert to sugar. After the mashing, I will strain out all the solids and then ferment the resulting mixture with the corn, barley and rye solids in a mesh bag.

                                       

                                      Will this work?



                                    • Jim Graves
                                      You really don t want to boil the corn, rather bring the water to a boil, add the corn and then maintain a temp of 152-160F for several hours, for me, the
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 16, 2014
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        You really don't want to "boil" the corn, rather bring the water to a boil, add the corn and then maintain a temp of 152-160F for several hours, for me, the longer the better, but don't boil the corn. When you do you kill the necessary enzymes and other good stuff that makes the mash a mash. I would crack the rye and do it with the corn and then the next day, with temp still at 150F add the malted barley. I leave it all together and let it cool before pitching the yeast and then let it work until it clears and it will. then carefully pump the liquids off, distill and then to the mash add sugar(1 to 1 1/2 pounds per gallon) and then pump the spent liquid back into it and let it ferment again. This is now sour mash and boy howdy is it good! You can do this 10-12 times, the mash is giving the flavor, the sugar giving the alcohol...

                                        If you can age the liquor in a oak keg, you will really get true whiskey. Only putting slabs in sealed containers is just giving it a oak taste.  Oxygen will pass thru the oak kegs and this is where the liquor is truly aged. Whiskey put in a glass jar and let set for four years is only as old as it was the day you put it in the jar! It will NOT age in glass...

                                        Just my .02$ worth Jim

                                        --------------------------------------------
                                        On Wed, 4/16/14, jkmccull@... <jkmccull@...> wrote:

                                        Subject: [new_distillers] Mashing
                                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 2:43 PM
















                                         











                                        About 4
                                        years back I made bourbon using the recipe
                                        of 5 lbs cracked corn, 1 lbs of cracked rye and 3.4 lbs of
                                        6-row malted barley.
                                        I mashed the mixture, fermented, distilled and ended up with
                                        what I considered a
                                        good bourbon. I let the bourbon age for a few months and
                                        started sipping it. I
                                        gave some to my son-in-aw who stored it away with some
                                        charred white oak
                                        strips.  Once I started sipping the
                                        bourbon,
                                        it disappeared pretty fast. A month or so ago my son-in-law
                                        and I tasted the
                                        now 4 year old bourbon and good had turned to great. Now I
                                        have a hankering to
                                        make some more of the bourbon.

                                         

                                        I
                                        want to change my mashing procedure to see if I can increase
                                        the yield and make
                                        the process a little easier. I want to vigorously boil the
                                        cracked corn with
                                        the intent of extracting as much of the starch as possible.
                                        After the boiling I
                                        will strain out all the corn solids and save then. Then I
                                        will mash the corn
                                        starch, malted barley and cracked rye to convert to sugar.
                                        After the mashing, I
                                        will strain out all the solids and then ferment the
                                        resulting mixture with the
                                        corn, barley and rye solids in a mesh bag.

                                         

                                        Will
                                        this work?
                                      • Jerry McCullough
                                        3 gallons of water for the mashing. After I had converted the starch to sugar, the mash mixture was diluted with water until I had a grain and water  volume
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 17, 2014
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          3 gallons of water for the mashing. After I had converted the starch to sugar, the mash mixture was diluted with water until I had a grain and water  volume of 16 gallons. That was what I fermented. I got the recipe from the archives quite a few years ago. The recipe also included the mashing instructions. It warned about how thick the mixture became and how essential the stirring was.  I did several batches like this.  

                                          Once the corn started converting and the grain absorbed a lot of the water, the mixture was so thick that it took extreme effort to keep it stirred and from burning. I had to throw away one batch due to burning. My attention had wandered momentarily because I was so tired and that was all it took to burn the mash. The entire mashing process took 8+ hours per batch. I did end up with about 8% potential ABV without adding any sugar.  

                                          My thought was by boiling the starch from the corn, I would halve the amount of grain that I would be mashing thereby keeping the mash from being so thick. If the mash was thinner then stirring would be easier and less chance of burning.

                                          Jerry McCullough
                                          On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:08 PM, Jay cell <adamsfly@...> wrote:
                                           
                                          How much water did you add to the mash?
                                          On Apr 16, 2014, at 3:43 PM, <jkmccull@...> <jkmccull@...> wrote:



                                          About 4 years back I made bourbon using the recipe of 5 lbs cracked corn, 1 lbs of cracked rye and 3.4 lbs of 6-row malted barley. I mashed the mixture, fermented, distilled and ended up with what I considered a good bourbon. I let the bourbon age for a few months and started sipping it. I gave some to my son-in-aw who stored it away with some charred white oak strips.  Once I started sipping the bourbon, it disappeared pretty fast. A month or so ago my son-in-law and I tasted the now 4 year old bourbon and good had turned to great. Now I have a hankering to make some more of the bourbon.
                                           
                                          I want to change my mashing procedure to see if I can increase the yield and make the process a little easier. I want to vigorously boil the cracked corn with the intent of extracting as much of the starch as possible. After the boiling I will strain out all the corn solids and save then. Then I will mash the corn starch, malted barley and cracked rye to convert to sugar. After the mashing, I will strain out all the solids and then ferment the resulting mixture with the corn, barley and rye solids in a mesh bag.
                                           
                                          Will this work?





                                        • Robert Hubble
                                          Jerry, From my own personal experience, boiling the corn to gelatinize the starch crystals makes the biggest, gummiest, mess of all, but there are a couple of
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 17, 2014
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Jerry,

                                            From my own personal experience, boiling the corn to gelatinize the starch crystals makes the biggest, gummiest, mess of all, but there are a couple of ways around making epoxy/corn/gum. Adding some ordinary enzymes (either store-bought or from malted barley) to cold water and grain will hydrolyze a lot of the gummy stuff on the way up to boiling temperatures (I think it's called pre-malting), even though the enzymes will be denatured finally in the process. The rest of the process is the normal cool to 152 and then add final mashing enzymes.

                                            A super variation on that is the get some of our own Pint-o-shine's high temperature enzymes, and reduce that corn to liquid, and the starch to dextrins and then to sugar, all in pretty much one pass. This video is a real eye-opener to anyone that's fought the dreaded corn gum/goop.
                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnboJ3Kxeo&list=UUG034xngTRhbEAxK8Wya5Gg

                                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: jkmccull@...
                                            Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:03:53 -0700
                                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mashing

                                             

                                            3 gallons of water for the mashing. After I had converted the starch to sugar, the mash mixture was diluted with water until I had a grain and water  volume of 16 gallons. That was what I fermented. I got the recipe from the archives quite a few years ago. The recipe also included the mashing instructions. It warned about how thick the mixture became and how essential the stirring was.  I did several batches like this.  

                                            Once the corn started converting and the grain absorbed a lot of the water, the mixture was so thick that it took extreme effort to keep it stirred and from burning. I had to throw away one batch due to burning. My attention had wandered momentarily because I was so tired and that was all it took to burn the mash. The entire mashing process took 8+ hours per batch. I did end up with about 8% potential ABV without adding any sugar.  

                                            My thought was by boiling the starch from the corn, I would halve the amount of grain that I would be mashing thereby keeping the mash from being so thick. If the mash was thinner then stirring would be easier and less chance of burning.

                                            Jerry McCullough
                                            On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:08 PM, Jay cell <adamsfly@...> wrote:
                                             
                                            How much water did you add to the mash?
                                            On Apr 16, 2014, at 3:43 PM, <jkmccull@...> <jkmccull@...> wrote:



                                            About 4 years back I made bourbon using the recipe of 5 lbs cracked corn, 1 lbs of cracked rye and 3.4 lbs of 6-row malted barley. I mashed the mixture, fermented, distilled and ended up with what I considered a good bourbon. I let the bourbon age for a few months and started sipping it. I gave some to my son-in-aw who stored it away with some charred white oak strips.  Once I started sipping the bourbon, it disappeared pretty fast. A month or so ago my son-in-law and I tasted the now 4 year old bourbon and good had turned to great. Now I have a hankering to make some more of the bourbon.
                                             
                                            I want to change my mashing procedure to see if I can increase the yield and make the process a little easier. I want to vigorously boil the cracked corn with the intent of extracting as much of the starch as possible. After the boiling I will strain out all the corn solids and save then. Then I will mash the corn starch, malted barley and cracked rye to convert to sugar. After the mashing, I will strain out all the solids and then ferment the resulting mixture with the corn, barley and rye solids in a mesh bag.
                                             
                                            Will this work?






                                          • RLB
                                            Thank you for validating most of my plan.  I have my ground corn, barley, wheat, and malted barley already mixed, and just need to pick up a new pillow
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 17, 2014
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thank you for validating most of my plan.  I have my ground corn, barley, wheat, and malted barley already mixed, and just need to pick up a new pillow case.  Will cook it all at 152 ish for 1.5 hrs., then take it up to a good boil.  Cool it to 152 ish and add more barley malt.  Let it cool slowly to 80 F and remove pillow case with grain.  Wash grain with with clean water and pitch yeast.  Add DAP and other stuff for a great tasting bourbon  wash.

                                              My gummy gooey mess is still inside my pillow case, so I flatten out the grain filled pillow case onto a cookie sheet.  Then it will be set on top of my malt dryer or slipped into my dehydrator until dry.  Later, separate grain cake from pillow case, place grain cake into storage for other uses, and toss pillow case into the washer.   I will let you know how well this works out once I move into my malt house/workshop in May.

                                              Robert


                                              From: Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...>
                                              To: "new_distillers@yahoogroups.com" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 6:08 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Mashing

                                               
                                              Jerry,

                                              From my own personal experience, boiling the corn to gelatinize the starch crystals makes the biggest, gummiest, mess of all, but there are a couple of ways around making epoxy/corn/gum. Adding some ordinary enzymes (either store-bought or from malted barley) to cold water and grain will hydrolyze a lot of the gummy stuff on the way up to boiling temperatures (I think it's called pre-malting), even though the enzymes will be denatured finally in the process. The rest of the process is the normal cool to 152 and then add final mashing enzymes.

                                              A super variation on that is the get some of our own Pint-o-shine's high temperature enzymes, and reduce that corn to liquid, and the starch to dextrins and then to sugar, all in pretty much one pass. This video is a real eye-opener to anyone that's fought the dreaded corn gum/goop.
                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnboJ3Kxeo&list=UUG034xngTRhbEAxK8Wya5Gg

                                              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.