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Re: Educate me on Internal Heaters for my Boiler

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  • abbababbaccc
    In principle internal element is somewhat more efficient than a hotplate as some of the heat generated in the plate gets radiated away from the boiler.
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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      In principle internal element is somewhat more efficient than a hotplate as some of the heat generated in the plate gets radiated away from the boiler. However, internal elements have a tendency to scorch the mash, especially if it has solids. Considering the price of those pots and longish distillation times needed with PDA-1 I think pot would be quite good alternative for you. Of course you can quite easily DIY one if pots are cheap around you as amphora seems to have those adapters for sale as well.

      Installation of heating elements, there are many different types of elements with different types of connections. Some require welding, some can be bolted on or screwed on. Electric kettles often have easy to install heating elements in them.

      Slainte, Riku

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "michaelgiedrys" <michaelgiedrys@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'll soon be taking delivery of a PDA-1, I'm not sure what I'll be using
      > yet as a boiler, they have a nice looking 10 gallon boiler that connects
      > directly to the PDA-1
      > You can take a look here:
      > http://www.amphora-society.com/10-gallon-high-quality-boilerfermenter_p_\
      > 8.html
      > <http://www.amphora-society.com/10-gallon-high-quality-boilerfermenter_p\
      > _8.html>
      >
      > I've done a few runs in the past using a friends still, but his is
      > propane heated. He's moved away recently which has prompted me to get my
      > own still, I have an ideal location indoors to set up a little ferment
      > and still area but without the needed ventilation to use propane, so I'd
      > like to go with an electric heat source. My thinking is that it will be
      > far better to have the heater inside the boiler, would I be able to do
      > that with the boiler above? I could also scrounge up a 15 gallon keg to
      > use as a boiler but I have zero welding ability and no access to welding
      > equipment.
      >
      > I've read that we should use internal heating elements from electric
      > water heater, but how would these be mounted inside the boiler/keg and
      > then wired up for operation?
      >
      > thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
      >
    • Mike Nevakshonoff
      ________________________________ From: michaelgiedrys To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 7:23:32 AM
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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        From: michaelgiedrys <michaelgiedrys@...>
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 7:23:32 AM
        Subject: [new_distillers] Educate me on Internal Heaters for my Boiler

        On the last boiler I built, I simply bought 3  1" npt (nationl pipe thread) nipples and welded them into the bottom of the boiler. The elements are 1400 watts @ 110 volts. They are the same ones used in water heaters.  They then just screw into the nipples. The nipples where staggered, starting 2" from the bottom to the top one being 5' from the bottom. I start by using all three elements to get things up to temperature, then simply start turning them off to maintain the correct temp. The one element is on a regulator to control the temp more accuratly.
         If you can't weld, or don't have access to welding equipment, just take it to a shop and they will probably do it for a bottle of the end product!!

        Mike N.


        I'll soon be taking delivery of a PDA-1, I'm not sure what I'll be using yet as a boiler, they have a nice looking 10 gallon boiler that connects directly to the PDA-1
        You can take a look here: http://www.amphora- society.com/ 10-gallon- high-quality- boilerfermenter_ p_8.html

        I've done a few runs in the past using a friends still, but his is propane heated. He's moved away recently which has prompted me to get my own still, I have an ideal location indoors to set up a little ferment and still area but without the needed ventilation to use propane, so I'd like to go with an electric heat source. My thinking is that it will be far better to have the heater inside the boiler, would I be able to do that with the boiler above? I could also scrounge up a 15 gallon keg to use as a boiler but I have zero welding ability and no access to welding equipment.

        I've read that we should use internal heating elements from electric water heater, but how would these be mounted inside the boiler/keg and then wired up for operation?

        thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.



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      • Sherman
        here is a small cocument that show a weldless solution to an internal water heater element. http://www.artisan-distiller.org/designs/WeldlessHeaterMount.pdf
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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          here is a small cocument that show a weldless solution to an internal water heater element.
          http://www.artisan-distiller.org/designs/WeldlessHeaterMount.pdf
          There are also electronic controller kits available that can handle up to 40 amps at 240 vac which give you continuous smoth control over the full operating range of the element if you need control over the power input for easy equilibrium.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Installation of heating elements, there are many different types of elements with different types of connections. Some require welding, some can be bolted on or screwed on. Electric kettles often have easy to install heating elements in them.
          >
          > Slainte, Riku
          >
        • rye_junkie1
          ... Depending on how thick the walls of that boiler are you could mount elements in it with a little work. I mounted them in my stock pot and they work great
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "michaelgiedrys" <michaelgiedrys@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'll soon be taking delivery of a PDA-1, I'm not sure what I'll be using
            > yet as a boiler, they have a nice looking 10 gallon boiler that connects
            > directly to the PDA-1
            > You can take a look here:
            > http://www.amphora-society.com/10-gallon-high-quality-boilerfermenter_p_\
            > 8.html
            > <http://www.amphora-society.com/10-gallon-high-quality-boilerfermenter_p\
            > _8.html>
            >
            > I've done a few runs in the past using a friends still, but his is
            > propane heated. He's moved away recently which has prompted me to get my
            > own still, I have an ideal location indoors to set up a little ferment
            > and still area but without the needed ventilation to use propane, so I'd
            > like to go with an electric heat source. My thinking is that it will be
            > far better to have the heater inside the boiler, would I be able to do
            > that with the boiler above? I could also scrounge up a 15 gallon keg to
            > use as a boiler but I have zero welding ability and no access to welding
            > equipment.
            >
            > I've read that we should use internal heating elements from electric
            > water heater, but how would these be mounted inside the boiler/keg and
            > then wired up for operation?
            >
            > thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
            >

            Depending on how thick the walls of that boiler are you could mount elements in it with a little work. I mounted them in my stock pot and they work great and no welding. If you are in the US you can go to Ace hardware and buy a "universal bolt in flange" element. They also make an adapter that lets you use screw in elements but I cant find it on their sight. Thats the way to go though if you plan on experimenting with elements. The work comes in because you need to make a plate for the inside of the boiler. 1/8" SS works great. Basically you sandwich the boiler wall between the plates and screw them tight. The boiler flattens in that area an conforms to the flanges. Sealing it up can be a chore. I didnt want to use rubber or silicone so I machined so custom washers and spacers to seal around the bolts. I did use the flange gasket though.
            Found it.
            http://tinyurl.com/dhutfp

            Mason
          • michaelgiedrys
            Thanks for the replies and information, very helpful. How does one control the heat when using the internal elements any advice on best practices for this?
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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              Thanks for the replies and information, very helpful.

              How does one control the heat when using the internal elements any advice on best practices for this?

              Also - would I be best off just starting out using a quality 1500W external hot plate under my boiler? Or would that add a long time to the run?

              thanks guys, just really getting into this, cool new hobby.

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "michaelgiedrys" <michaelgiedrys@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'll soon be taking delivery of a PDA-1, I'm not sure what I'll be using
              > yet as a boiler, they have a nice looking 10 gallon boiler that connects
              > directly to the PDA-1
              > You can take a look here:
              > http://www.amphora-society.com/10-gallon-high-quality-boilerfermenter_p_\
              > 8.html
              > <http://www.amphora-society.com/10-gallon-high-quality-boilerfermenter_p\
              > _8.html>
              >
              > I've done a few runs in the past using a friends still, but his is
              > propane heated. He's moved away recently which has prompted me to get my
              > own still, I have an ideal location indoors to set up a little ferment
              > and still area but without the needed ventilation to use propane, so I'd
              > like to go with an electric heat source. My thinking is that it will be
              > far better to have the heater inside the boiler, would I be able to do
              > that with the boiler above? I could also scrounge up a 15 gallon keg to
              > use as a boiler but I have zero welding ability and no access to welding
              > equipment.
              >
              > I've read that we should use internal heating elements from electric
              > water heater, but how would these be mounted inside the boiler/keg and
              > then wired up for operation?
              >
              > thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
              >
            • rye_junkie1
              ... Currently I just pick the element for the Job. If I want to do a spirit run around 750watts I use a 3500w 240v element and run it on 120V. I know
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "michaelgiedrys" <michaelgiedrys@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the replies and information, very helpful.
                >
                > How does one control the heat when using the internal elements any advice on best practices for this?
                >
                > Also - would I be best off just starting out using a quality 1500W external hot plate under my boiler? Or would that add a long time to the run?
                >
                > thanks guys, just really getting into this, cool new hobby.


                Currently I just pick the element for the Job. If I want to do a spirit run around 750watts I use a 3500w 240v element and run it on 120V. I know Pint(Sherman) sells a controller for this and I think they are pretty reasonable and Harbor freight sells a Router speed controller that I have heard works well also.
                http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060

                Mason
              • sosburner@sbcglobal.net
                Check homedistiler.org for still plans. The internal heating elements have to screw into a flange that is welded to go through the still wall and be water
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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                  Check homedistiler.org for still plans. The internal heating elements have to screw into a flange that is welded to go through the still wall and be water tight. Wiring is simple as 120 has only two wires. Control is another story.
                • Seth Kircher
                  While we are on the subject... For those of you who are using hot plates (and are running 120 v electricity) can you offer some advice on which hot plates to
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 1, 2009
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                    While we are on the subject...

                    For those of you who are using hot plates (and are running 120 v electricity) can you offer some advice on which hot plates to consider for running a PDA-1?

                    Sorry if this was already covered in an earlier thread...

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sosburner@..." <sosburner@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Check homedistiler.org for still plans. The internal heating elements have to screw into a flange that is welded to go through the still wall and be water tight. Wiring is simple as 120 has only two wires. Control is another story.
                    >
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