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Re: Modern Way - Fermenting Star Fruit

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Hey Bossy, Good to see everything going fine. Comments and recipe inline below in Bold again. Vino es Veritas, Jim aka Waldo. ... it ... There is no problems
    Message 1 of 89 , Feb 1, 2009

      Hey Bossy,

      Good to see everything going fine.

      Comments and recipe inline below in Bold again.

      Vino es Veritas,

      Jim aka Waldo.


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles" <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
      >
      > helo everybody
      >
      > cant keep you alone for 1 minutes
      >
      > hey like you said i will be in contact on monday again with the old
      > boys on the island ( actually its old lady) she makes the most famous
      > ones.
      > ys i used the alchohol meter and your right the reading must have been
      > false
      > anyway the wine she makes is so clear i poped the meter in there and it
      > bounced a bit then came to 8 .. 9.....12
      >
      > any way i also calculated on the amount of beers that gets me down
      > conpared to how much of how much her stuff took me down...
      >
      > anyway shes coming up on monday to see what im up to
      > if you have any question in detail please post them up
      > its good to learn from different worlds
      > and yes the wine is sweet and taste like champayne bubbles in the
      > pallet.
      > seriously..

      There is no problems with making a sweet wine for drinking.  Just make sure the sugar is added in steps after fermentation - otherwise the yeast will die off .  However, for distilling purposes, this is not desired since the excess sugars will cause burning and off-tastes in the still and distillate...


      > got a big job tomorow i have to prepare about 100 litres of mango juice
      > but like you say in 25 litres tanks
      > i will be doing one the old ladys way just to compare to give you the
      > details

      Sounds good Bossy, what I would do is make a 50 liter batch (including any water you add) and use my recipe and a satchet of that Prestige yeast.  The rest do her way - "the traditional way"  This will give you a very good comparison.

      > hey waldo sent the recipe
      > please.

      Recipe as follows - I also included a chart at the end of this posting on all the sugars and nutrients in mango fruit.  Mango has a high natural sugar level - around 14% (14.8%) which equals around a 7% potential ABV (with water added about a 5% ABV) if fermented alone.

      Since your Prestige yeast can handle up to 18% ABV (probably a Bayanus champagne strain like EC-1118), im going to keep the added sugar at about 1 lb. per every 4 liters of must (should come out to about a 12 % ABV must or so - but again without a wine hydrometer we are flying by the seat of our pants...  Here goes:

            Mango Wine Recipe (makes about 60 liters total)

      • 40 liters mango juice 
      • 7 kg. granulated sugar (that has been inverted - see below)
      • 10 liters water
      • 7 lemons (juiced)
      • 3 TBS. of the green stuff :) 
      • 1 can (6 oz.) tomato paste
      • 4 cups brewed tea for tannin
      • 1 satchet  Prestige Pot Still yeast

      -Prepare inverted sugar (boil juice of 7 lemons with 2 liters of mango juice with  the sugar - let simmer 30 minutes.  (or see button below).

      -When cooled down to below 70C - add green stuff, tomato paste and tea,

      -Put 40 liters of mango juice in fermenter and add above ingredients.

      -Add 10 liters of water, stir vigorously for 2 mintes. Let stand over night.

      -Pitch Prestige yeast and stir again for 15-20 minutes.  Cover and stir once a day.  (recipe by JB.)

      >
      > went to a sugar cane distiller today
      > i cant beleive how none of them could give me any campden or any yeast
      > im serious they dont have it

      Since sugar cane is boiled several times in order to produce white sugars, brown sugars and molassas - no metabisufites are required to kill of the microbes - boiling does the job - just like pasturizing your fruit juices.
       
      > ile soon know the difference
      > and we have agreed to taste each others and see the new the old and the
      > ugly ( thats when were pissed)
      >
      > waiting on guys
      >
      > bossy
      > hey both my babys are brewing nicely
      > i added the sugar as you said and i removed the cap
      > still holding on about the mixing
      > what could go wrong when doing that
      > or what good will come out of it

      Mixing the 2 fermentations was just an idea to add the flavors together and make it simpler on you.  But keep em seperate if you want.

      Good Luck !!!

      Jim.


      >
      > see ya
      > bossy

      Here is the chart on sugars and nutrients in Mango fruit per each 100 grams:

      Mangos, raw

      Refuse: 31%  (Seeds and skin)
      Scientific Name:  Mangifera indica
      NDB No: 09176 (Nutrient values and weights are for edible portion)

      NutrientUnitsValue per
      100 grams
      Number
      of Data
      Points
      Std.
      Error
      Proximates
      Water
      g
      81.71
      108
      0.323
      Energy
      kcal
      65
      0
      0
      Energy
      kJ
      272
      0
      0
      Protein
      g
      0.51
      79
      0.025
      Total lipid (fat)
      g
      0.27
      47
      0.039
      Ash
      g
      0.50
      66
      0.033
      Carbohydrate, by difference
      g
      17.00
      0
      0
      Fiber, total dietary
      g
      1.8
      0
      0
      Sugars, total
      g
      14.80
      0
      0
      Minerals
      Calcium, Ca
      mg
      10
      27
      0.85
      Iron, Fe
      mg
      0.13
      21
      0.021
      Magnesium, Mg
      mg
      9
      20
      0.58
      Phosphorus, P
      mg
      11
      41
      0.746
      Potassium, K
      mg
      156
      24
      8.441
      Sodium, Na
      mg
      2
      24
      0.624
      Zinc, Zn
      mg
      0.04
      1
      0
      Copper, Cu
      mg
      0.110
      17
      0.009
      Manganese, Mn
      mg
      0.027
      17
      0.002
      Selenium, Se
      mcg
      0.6
      0
      0
      Vitamins
      Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid
      mg
      27.7
      162
      1.749
      Thiamin
      mg
      0.058
      35
      0.005
      Riboflavin
      mg
      0.057
      36
      0.004
      Niacin
      mg
      0.584
      36
      0.07
      Pantothenic acid
      mg
      0.160
      0
      0
      Vitamin B-6
      mg
      0.134
      1
      0
      Folate, total
      mcg
      14
      0
      0
      Folic acid
      mcg
      0
      0
      0
      Folate, food
      mcg
      14
      0
      0
      Folate, DFE
      mcg_DFE
      14
      0
      0
      Choline, total
      mg
      7.6
      0
      0
      Vitamin B-12
      mcg
      0.00
      0
      0
      Vitamin B-12, added
      mcg
      0.00
      0
      0
      Vitamin A, RAE
      mcg_RAE
      38
      0
      0
      Retinol
      mcg
      0
      0
      0
      Carotene, beta
      mcg
      445
      8
      50
      Carotene, alpha
      mcg
      17
      4
      0
      Cryptoxanthin, beta
      mcg
      11
      4
      0
      Vitamin A, IU
      IU
      765
      0
      0
      Lycopene
      mcg
      0
      0
      0
      Lutein + zeaxanthin
      mcg
      0
      0
      0
      Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol)
      mg
      1.12
      0
      0
      Vitamin E, added
      mg
      0.00
      0
      0
      Vitamin K (phylloquinone)
      mcg
      4.2
      0
      0
      Lipids
      Fatty acids, total saturated
      g
      0.066
      0
      0
      4:0
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      6:0
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      8:0
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      10:0
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      12:0
      g
      0.001
      15
      0
      14:0
      g
      0.009
      19
      0
      16:0
      g
      0.052
      19
      0
      18:0
      g
      0.003
      19
      0
      Fatty acids, total monounsaturated
      g
      0.101
      0
      0
      16:1 undifferentiated
      g
      0.048
      19
      0
      18:1 undifferentiated
      g
      0.054
      19
      0
      20:1
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      22:1 undifferentiated
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated
      g
      0.051
      0
      0
      18:2 undifferentiated
      g
      0.014
      19
      0
      18:3 undifferentiated
      g
      0.037
      19
      0
      18:4
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      20:4 undifferentiated
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      20:5 n-3
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      22:5 n-3
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      22:6 n-3
      g
      0.000
      0
      0
      Cholesterol
      mg
      0
      0
      0
      Amino acids
      Tryptophan
      g
      0.008
      11
      0
      Threonine
      g
      0.019
      2
      0
      Isoleucine
      g
      0.018
      2
      0
      Leucine
      g
      0.031
      2
      0
      Lysine
      g
      0.041
      13
      0
      Methionine
      g
      0.005
      13
      0
      Phenylalanine
      g
      0.017
      2
      0
      Tyrosine
      g
      0.010
      2
      0
      Valine
      g
      0.026
      2
      0
      Arginine
      g
      0.019
      2
      0
      Histidine
      g
      0.012
      2
      0
      Alanine
      g
      0.051
      2
      0
      Aspartic acid
      g
      0.042
      2
      0
      Glutamic acid
      g
      0.060
      2
      0
      Glycine
      g
      0.021
      2
      0
      Proline
      g
      0.018
      2
      0
      Serine
      g
      0.022
      2
      0
      Other
      Alcohol, ethyl
      g
      0.0
      0
      0
      Caffeine
      mg
      0
      0
      0
      Theobromine
      mg
      0
      0
      0

      USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 21 (2008)


       

    • jamesonbeam1
      Hi Baker, Yes, your correct. Boiling the potatos will kill off any microbes on there skin. Using just the waters containing nutrients and some sugars and
      Message 89 of 89 , Feb 4, 2009

        Hi Baker,

        Yes, your correct.  Boiling the potatos will kill off any microbes on there skin.  Using just the waters containing nutrients and some sugars and starches open to the air will cause airborne wild yeasts to infect it. 
        More comments below in Bold:

        > Okay, Jim, I think I see where you are coming from; by
        > pasteurization/ stirilisation you are ensuring you get only AIR-BORNE
        > wild/natural yeasts, not the yeasts that might be carried on/in the
        > FRUITS, or in this case the potatoes?
        >
        > But it seems to me (and this is not based on knowledge, it just seems
        > to make sense) that the case of a natural yeast for fermenting a
        > fruit wine is very different to yeast for bread.

        Not really Baker, both bread yeast and wine yeasts are mainly from the genus Saccharomyces  and species  cerevisiae  within the species Saccharomyces cerevisiae (check it out in Wikipedia), there are over 1500 strains of this yeast that have been cultured for making bread yeast, wine yeast, whiskey yeast, ale yeasts etc., etc..  These strains were originally cultivated from wild yeasts that have been found on the skins of fruit (or grains) which have formed a symbiotic relationship with the fruit or grain.  The other main species of yeast for making wines (mainly champagnes) is  Saccharomyces bayanus  a more alcohol tolerant species of yeast.   One can make bread from a strain of wine yeast and make wine from a bread yeast.

        > The process of boiling the potatoes could have little importance in
        > its sterilization effect; a yeast from the potato skin might be as
        > effective as an airborne yeast. 

        Again this depends on how good or bad that wild yeast strain could be..

        > The boiling of the potatoes could be important mainly because it
        > gelatinises the starch in the potatoes (and thus any residual starch
        > in the potato water?)

        Correct again Baker:     "Common media used for the cultivation of yeasts include; potato dextrose agar (PDA) or potato dextrose broth,"


        > This would make it somewhat similar to bread flour; and if I am right
        > about a little bread flour being mixed in the potato water that would
        > increase that effect.
        > It is of course possible to include potato flour, or mashed potato,
        > (in other words, gelatinised potato) in breads and that might add
        > credence to my thoughts here.

        Corrct again.

        > There are a lot of wineries not too far from where I live and I know
        > it has been the practice years ago, and perhaps even yet to a very
        > much lesser extent, to ferment the grapes in open concrete tanks; and
        > often by the use of the natural yeasts from the bloom on the skins of
        > the grapes.

        Yes, due to the symbiotic relationship, the wild yeasts on the skin of each varietal grape was used to start the fermentation.  Eventually, these were cultivated into various red and white wine,  grape specific strains.


        > It would seem that a yeast that has evolved on or in a fruit, and
        > thus is adapted specifically to ferment that fruit in the conditions
        > in which it is found (climate, etc.,) would be more likely to ferment
        > it well than an air-borne yeast; in the same way as has been found in
        > the case of the grape wines (ignoring commercial yeasts, which anyway
        > have been cultured from natural yeasts originally).

        Correct again - see above.


        > Just kicking the ideas around, it's interesting.
        >
        > Bacteria I haven't thought much about, I guess if you sterilize the
        > fruits that cuts out a lot of possible bacterial infections, leaving
        > only the air-borne ones...

        Yes - the worst ones being vinegar producing bacteria - acetic acid bacteria.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.


        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > The Baker
        >

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