Re: Modern Way - Fermenting Star Fruit
Good to see everything going fine.
Comments and recipe inline below in Bold again.
Vino es Veritas,
Jim aka Waldo.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "bravoseychelles" <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
> helo everybody
> cant keep you alone for 1 minutes
> hey like you said i will be in contact on monday again with the old
> boys on the island ( actually its old lady) she makes the most famous
> ys i used the alchohol meter and your right the reading must have been
> anyway the wine she makes is so clear i poped the meter in there and it
> bounced a bit then came to 8 .. 9.....12
> any way i also calculated on the amount of beers that gets me down
> conpared to how much of how much her stuff took me down...
> anyway shes coming up on monday to see what im up to
> if you have any question in detail please post them up
> its good to learn from different worlds
> and yes the wine is sweet and taste like champayne bubbles in the
There is no problems with making a sweet wine for drinking. Just make sure the sugar is added in steps after fermentation - otherwise the yeast will die off . However, for distilling purposes, this is not desired since the excess sugars will cause burning and off-tastes in the still and distillate...
> got a big job tomorow i have to prepare about 100 litres of mango juice
> but like you say in 25 litres tanks
> i will be doing one the old ladys way just to compare to give you the
Sounds good Bossy, what I would do is make a 50 liter batch (including any water you add) and use my recipe and a satchet of that Prestige yeast. The rest do her way - "the traditional way" This will give you a very good comparison.
> hey waldo sent the recipe
Recipe as follows - I also included a chart at the end of this posting on all the sugars and nutrients in mango fruit. Mango has a high natural sugar level - around 14% (14.8%) which equals around a 7% potential ABV (with water added about a 5% ABV) if fermented alone.
Since your Prestige yeast can handle up to 18% ABV (probably a Bayanus champagne strain like EC-1118), im going to keep the added sugar at about 1 lb. per every 4 liters of must (should come out to about a 12 % ABV must or so - but again without a wine hydrometer we are flying by the seat of our pants... Here goes:
Mango Wine Recipe (makes about 60 liters total)
- 40 liters mango juice
- 7 kg. granulated sugar (that has been inverted - see below)
- 10 liters water
- 7 lemons (juiced)
- 3 TBS. of the green stuff
- 1 can (6 oz.) tomato paste
- 4 cups brewed tea for tannin
- 1 satchet Prestige Pot Still yeast
-Prepare inverted sugar (boil juice of 7 lemons with 2 liters of mango juice with the sugar - let simmer 30 minutes. (or see button below).
-When cooled down to below 70C - add green stuff, tomato paste and tea,
-Put 40 liters of mango juice in fermenter and add above ingredients.
-Add 10 liters of water, stir vigorously for 2 mintes. Let stand over night.
-Pitch Prestige yeast and stir again for 15-20 minutes. Cover and stir once a day. (recipe by JB.)
> went to a sugar cane distiller today
> i cant beleive how none of them could give me any campden or any yeast
> im serious they dont have it
Since sugar cane is boiled several times in order to produce white sugars, brown sugars and molassas - no metabisufites are required to kill of the microbes - boiling does the job - just like pasturizing your fruit juices.
> ile soon know the difference
> and we have agreed to taste each others and see the new the old and the
> ugly ( thats when were pissed)
> waiting on guys
> hey both my babys are brewing nicely
> i added the sugar as you said and i removed the cap
> still holding on about the mixing
> what could go wrong when doing that
> or what good will come out of it
Mixing the 2 fermentations was just an idea to add the flavors together and make it simpler on you. But keep em seperate if you want.
Good Luck !!!
> see ya
Here is the chart on sugars and nutrients in Mango fruit per each 100 grams:
Refuse: 31% (Seeds and skin)
Scientific Name: Mangifera indica
NDB No: 09176 (Nutrient values and weights are for edible portion)
Nutrient Units Value per
Proximates Waterg81.711080.323 Energykcal6500 EnergykJ27200 Proteing0.51790.025 Total lipid (fat)g0.27470.039 Ashg0.50660.033 Carbohydrate, by differenceg17.0000 Fiber, total dietaryg1.800 Sugars, totalg14.8000 Minerals Calcium, Camg10270.85 Iron, Femg0.13210.021 Magnesium, Mgmg9200.58 Phosphorus, Pmg11410.746 Potassium, Kmg156248.441 Sodium, Namg2240.624 Zinc, Znmg0.0410 Copper, Cumg0.110170.009 Manganese, Mnmg0.027170.002 Selenium, Semcg0.600 Vitamins Vitamin C, total ascorbic acidmg27.71621.749 Thiaminmg0.058350.005 Riboflavinmg0.057360.004 Niacinmg0.584360.07 Pantothenic acidmg0.16000 Vitamin B-6mg0.13410 Folate, totalmcg1400 Folic acidmcg000 Folate, foodmcg1400 Folate, DFEmcg_DFE1400 Choline, totalmg7.600 Vitamin B-12mcg0.0000 Vitamin B-12, addedmcg0.0000 Vitamin A, RAEmcg_RAE3800 Retinolmcg000 Carotene, betamcg445850 Carotene, alphamcg1740 Cryptoxanthin, betamcg1140 Vitamin A, IUIU76500 Lycopenemcg000 Lutein + zeaxanthinmcg000 Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol)mg1.1200 Vitamin E, addedmg0.0000 Vitamin K (phylloquinone)mcg4.200 Lipids Fatty acids, total saturatedg0.06600 4:0g0.00000 6:0g0.00000 8:0g0.00000 10:0g0.00000 12:0g0.001150 14:0g0.009190 16:0g0.052190 18:0g0.003190 Fatty acids, total monounsaturatedg0.10100 16:1 undifferentiatedg0.048190 18:1 undifferentiatedg0.054190 20:1g0.00000 22:1 undifferentiatedg0.00000 Fatty acids, total polyunsaturatedg0.05100 18:2 undifferentiatedg0.014190 18:3 undifferentiatedg0.037190 18:4g0.00000 20:4 undifferentiatedg0.00000 20:5 n-3g0.00000 22:5 n-3g0.00000 22:6 n-3g0.00000 Cholesterolmg000 Amino acids Tryptophang0.008110 Threonineg0.01920 Isoleucineg0.01820 Leucineg0.03120 Lysineg0.041130 Methionineg0.005130 Phenylalanineg0.01720 Tyrosineg0.01020 Valineg0.02620 Arginineg0.01920 Histidineg0.01220 Alanineg0.05120 Aspartic acidg0.04220 Glutamic acidg0.06020 Glycineg0.02120 Prolineg0.01820 Serineg0.02220 Other Alcohol, ethylg0.000 Caffeinemg000 Theobrominemg000
USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 21 (2008)
Yes, your correct. Boiling the potatos will kill off any microbes on there skin. Using just the waters containing nutrients and some sugars and starches open to the air will cause airborne wild yeasts to infect it.
More comments below in Bold:
> Okay, Jim, I think I see where you are coming from; by
> pasteurization/ stirilisation you are ensuring you get only AIR-BORNE
> wild/natural yeasts, not the yeasts that might be carried on/in the
> FRUITS, or in this case the potatoes?
> But it seems to me (and this is not based on knowledge, it just seems
> to make sense) that the case of a natural yeast for fermenting a
> fruit wine is very different to yeast for bread.
Not really Baker, both bread yeast and wine yeasts are mainly from the genus Saccharomyces and species cerevisiae within the species Saccharomyces cerevisiae (check it out in Wikipedia), there are over 1500 strains of this yeast that have been cultured for making bread yeast, wine yeast, whiskey yeast, ale yeasts etc., etc.. These strains were originally cultivated from wild yeasts that have been found on the skins of fruit (or grains) which have formed a symbiotic relationship with the fruit or grain. The other main species of yeast for making wines (mainly champagnes) is Saccharomyces bayanus a more alcohol tolerant species of yeast. One can make bread from a strain of wine yeast and make wine from a bread yeast.
> The process of boiling the potatoes could have little importance in
> its sterilization effect; a yeast from the potato skin might be as
> effective as an airborne yeast.
Again this depends on how good or bad that wild yeast strain could be..
> The boiling of the potatoes could be important mainly because it
> gelatinises the starch in the potatoes (and thus any residual starch
> in the potato water?)
Correct again Baker: "Common media used for the cultivation of yeasts include; potato dextrose agar (PDA) or potato dextrose broth,"
> This would make it somewhat similar to bread flour; and if I am right
> about a little bread flour being mixed in the potato water that would
> increase that effect.
> It is of course possible to include potato flour, or mashed potato,
> (in other words, gelatinised potato) in breads and that might add
> credence to my thoughts here.
> There are a lot of wineries not too far from where I live and I know
> it has been the practice years ago, and perhaps even yet to a very
> much lesser extent, to ferment the grapes in open concrete tanks; and
> often by the use of the natural yeasts from the bloom on the skins of
> the grapes.
Yes, due to the symbiotic relationship, the wild yeasts on the skin of each varietal grape was used to start the fermentation. Eventually, these were cultivated into various red and white wine, grape specific strains.
> It would seem that a yeast that has evolved on or in a fruit, and
> thus is adapted specifically to ferment that fruit in the conditions
> in which it is found (climate, etc.,) would be more likely to ferment
> it well than an air-borne yeast; in the same way as has been found in
> the case of the grape wines (ignoring commercial yeasts, which anyway
> have been cultured from natural yeasts originally).
Correct again - see above.
> Just kicking the ideas around, it's interesting.
> Bacteria I haven't thought much about, I guess if you sterilize the
> fruits that cuts out a lot of possible bacterial infections, leaving
> only the air-borne ones...
Yes - the worst ones being vinegar producing bacteria - acetic acid bacteria.
Vino es Veritas,
Jim aka Waldo.
> The Baker