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Re: is it nessesary to add yeast in a fruit mash

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  • rye_junkie1
    ... Answering the Question from the subject line. No, especially with a fruit mash. Fruit as well as the air we breath is dotted with Wild Yeast and these
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gooseeye" <gooseeye@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
      > <bravoseychelles@> wrote:
      > >
      > > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
      > >
      > > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the
      > good
      > > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
      > > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to
      > 15
      > > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
      > > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
      > > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated
      > rocks
      > > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by
      > the
      > > emersion of the hot rock
      > > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this
      > technique
      > >
      > > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
      > > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
      > >
      > > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive


      Answering the Question from the subject line. No, especially with a
      fruit mash. Fruit as well as the air we breath is dotted with Wild
      Yeast and these yeast will easily propagate and ferment a fruit mash.
      This is most likely how fermentation was discovered. There is a catch
      to the method though. You never know what "Strain" you will wind up
      with. Could give a good flavor profile could give a nasty one. All
      depends on what the particular yeast is good at eating and spitting
      out. Yeast Strains like EC1118 and I believe some of the Red star
      brands(probably a bunch of others too) are known as the Killer Strains
      because they Kill the wild yeasts. Although I have never used them,
      Camden tablets are used in wine making for this same purpose. If
      memory serves me correctly, some of the most expensive wines out
      there are made from propagating wild yeast. One would assume that the
      high price was due to that fact that if the yeast was a bad one then
      you may as well bottle it with the MD 20/20 label. The next year you
      get a superior wine and the cost has to reflect the bad years losses.

      Mason
    • rye_junkie1
      ... wrote: If ... Here s a couple of interesting articles on the subject. http://www.enologyinternational.com/yeast/wildyeast.html
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
        wrote:
        If
        > memory serves me correctly, some of the most expensive wines out
        > there are made from propagating wild yeast. One would assume that the
        > high price was due to that fact that if the yeast was a bad one then
        > you may as well bottle it with the MD 20/20 label. The next year you
        > get a superior wine and the cost has to reflect the bad years losses.
        >
        > Mason
        >

        Here's a couple of interesting articles on the subject.
        http://www.enologyinternational.com/yeast/wildyeast.html

        http://www.vinography.com/archives/2008/11/debunking_wild_yeast_fermentat.html

        Mason
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hi Bravo, Trying to make a sucessful fermentation from wild fruits without using camden tablets (ie. meta bi-sufites to distroy them nasty microbes), and
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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          Hi Bravo,

          Trying to make a sucessful fermentation from wild fruits without using camden tablets (ie. meta bi-sufites to distroy them nasty microbes), and adding a reputable cultured wine yeast (ie. Lalvin strains - see the Info base) , your just asking for problems.

          Trying to rely on only the wild yeasts found in the fruit skins is  very tricky and a risky business. You will have less then a 50/50 shot on getting the right wild yeasts in your must - not to mention getting some Acetic acid bacteria  (see Acetobacter that will just produce vinegar in your fermentation.) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter

          While the ancient Greeks and Romans fermented their grape wines this way (not to mention stomping the juices down with their dirty feet hehe), there are much more aniseptic ways of fermenting these days.

          I would do some more reading on this subject and listen to other members.

          Vino es Veritas,

          Jim aka Waldo.


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles" <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
          >
          > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
          >
          > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the good
          > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
          > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to 15
          > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
          > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
          > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated rocks
          > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by the
          > emersion of the hot rock
          > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this technique
          >
          > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
          > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
          >
          > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
          >

        • gooseeye
          ... using ... microbes), and ... very ... some ... vinegar in ... this way ... hehe), ... to 15 ... rocks ... the ... technique ... about ... i say it depends
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
            <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi Bravo,
            >
            > Trying to make a sucessful fermentation from wild fruits without
            using
            > camden tablets (ie. meta bi-sufites to distroy them nasty
            microbes), and
            > adding a reputable cultured wine yeast (ie. Lalvin strains - see the
            > Info base) , your just asking for problems.
            >
            > Trying to rely on only the wild yeasts found in the fruit skins is
            very
            > tricky and a risky business. You will have less then a 50/50 shot on
            > getting the right wild yeasts in your must - not to mention getting
            some
            > Acetic acid bacteria (see Acetobacter that will just produce
            vinegar in
            > your fermentation.) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter
            > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter>
            >
            > While the ancient Greeks and Romans fermented their grape wines
            this way
            > (not to mention stomping the juices down with their dirty feet
            hehe),
            > there are much more aniseptic ways of fermenting these days.
            >
            > I would do some more reading on this subject and listen to other
            > members.
            >
            > Vino es Veritas,
            >
            > Jim aka Waldo.
            >
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
            > <bravoseychelles@> wrote:
            > >
            > > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
            > >
            > > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the
            > good
            > > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
            > > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10
            to 15
            > > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
            > > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
            > > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated
            rocks
            > > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by
            the
            > > emersion of the hot rock
            > > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this
            technique
            > >
            > > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk
            about
            > > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
            > >
            > > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
            > >
            >
            i say it depends on how hi you shootin for where you is an how clean
            you work bout wild yeast.
            ole boys pa never noed bout store bought yeast unless he droped a
            cake in corn an the ole boys never messed with much til they got
            greedy an started for the hi teens an they didnt have much problem.
            maybe a barel every to years wouldnt work off right but only vineigar
            was if they left it out an mother came a callin. you want yeast go to
            grape vine an pull off one of them white swizeled up grapes an you
            set to go. if you makein wine to keep an aint country or a port
            sherry id be use inhibaters if not ole boys let it ride

            so im tole
          • mstehelin
            Bravo, Are you fermenting with the mashed fruit included or removed? If you include the pulp in your initial fermentation you have to stir the top down once a
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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              Bravo,
              Are you fermenting with the mashed fruit included or removed? If you
              include the pulp in your initial fermentation you have to stir the top
              down once a day so it won't go moldy. There is a great article on
              Fermenting peaches on the Home Distiller forum. I would post a link
              but it looks like the site is down. BTW That is Tinyurl? I See it when
              people attach links here.
              Cheers
              M


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
              <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
              >
              > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
              >
              > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the good
              > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
              > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to 15
              > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
              > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
              > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated rocks
              > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by the
              > emersion of the hot rock
              > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this technique
              >
              > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
              > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
              >
              > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
              >
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