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is it nessesary to add yeast in a fruit mash

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  • bravoseychelles
    from local juice makers i would like to ask this question. it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the good yeast thats found and talked
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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      from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.

      it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the good
      yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
      produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to 15
      days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
      they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
      but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated rocks
      in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by the
      emersion of the hot rock
      does any body have any conment or any way of improving this technique

      im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
      taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled

      im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
    • gooseeye
      ... good ... 15 ... rocks ... the ... technique ... if they aint addin suger of some kind some how you only gonna be getin what the fruit got to offer so 8 to
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
        <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
        >
        > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
        >
        > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the
        good
        > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
        > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to
        15
        > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
        > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
        > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated
        rocks
        > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by
        the
        > emersion of the hot rock
        > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this
        technique
        >
        > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
        > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
        >
        > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
        >
        if they aint addin suger of some kind some how you only gonna be
        getin what the fruit got to offer so 8 to 12 is strong. dependin on
        yeast - some is top an some is bottm workin- them rock is mainly for
        heatin that wine would be my guess all them bubles could be traped
        gas. dependin on flaver of fruit some got strong flaver some got
        delicate flavers you aint gonna have to worry much bout yeast taste.
        is that wine all fruit juice
        do they take pits /seeds out
        do they charge it with plummins
        do they single foot or double an twist.
        id be setin a bench mark when you get your outfit an toyin from there.

        so im tole
      • rye_junkie1
        ... Answering the Question from the subject line. No, especially with a fruit mash. Fruit as well as the air we breath is dotted with Wild Yeast and these
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gooseeye" <gooseeye@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
          > <bravoseychelles@> wrote:
          > >
          > > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
          > >
          > > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the
          > good
          > > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
          > > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to
          > 15
          > > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
          > > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
          > > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated
          > rocks
          > > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by
          > the
          > > emersion of the hot rock
          > > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this
          > technique
          > >
          > > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
          > > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
          > >
          > > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive


          Answering the Question from the subject line. No, especially with a
          fruit mash. Fruit as well as the air we breath is dotted with Wild
          Yeast and these yeast will easily propagate and ferment a fruit mash.
          This is most likely how fermentation was discovered. There is a catch
          to the method though. You never know what "Strain" you will wind up
          with. Could give a good flavor profile could give a nasty one. All
          depends on what the particular yeast is good at eating and spitting
          out. Yeast Strains like EC1118 and I believe some of the Red star
          brands(probably a bunch of others too) are known as the Killer Strains
          because they Kill the wild yeasts. Although I have never used them,
          Camden tablets are used in wine making for this same purpose. If
          memory serves me correctly, some of the most expensive wines out
          there are made from propagating wild yeast. One would assume that the
          high price was due to that fact that if the yeast was a bad one then
          you may as well bottle it with the MD 20/20 label. The next year you
          get a superior wine and the cost has to reflect the bad years losses.

          Mason
        • rye_junkie1
          ... wrote: If ... Here s a couple of interesting articles on the subject. http://www.enologyinternational.com/yeast/wildyeast.html
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
            wrote:
            If
            > memory serves me correctly, some of the most expensive wines out
            > there are made from propagating wild yeast. One would assume that the
            > high price was due to that fact that if the yeast was a bad one then
            > you may as well bottle it with the MD 20/20 label. The next year you
            > get a superior wine and the cost has to reflect the bad years losses.
            >
            > Mason
            >

            Here's a couple of interesting articles on the subject.
            http://www.enologyinternational.com/yeast/wildyeast.html

            http://www.vinography.com/archives/2008/11/debunking_wild_yeast_fermentat.html

            Mason
          • jamesonbeam1
            Hi Bravo, Trying to make a sucessful fermentation from wild fruits without using camden tablets (ie. meta bi-sufites to distroy them nasty microbes), and
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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              Hi Bravo,

              Trying to make a sucessful fermentation from wild fruits without using camden tablets (ie. meta bi-sufites to distroy them nasty microbes), and adding a reputable cultured wine yeast (ie. Lalvin strains - see the Info base) , your just asking for problems.

              Trying to rely on only the wild yeasts found in the fruit skins is  very tricky and a risky business. You will have less then a 50/50 shot on getting the right wild yeasts in your must - not to mention getting some Acetic acid bacteria  (see Acetobacter that will just produce vinegar in your fermentation.) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter

              While the ancient Greeks and Romans fermented their grape wines this way (not to mention stomping the juices down with their dirty feet hehe), there are much more aniseptic ways of fermenting these days.

              I would do some more reading on this subject and listen to other members.

              Vino es Veritas,

              Jim aka Waldo.


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles" <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
              >
              > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
              >
              > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the good
              > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
              > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to 15
              > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
              > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
              > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated rocks
              > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by the
              > emersion of the hot rock
              > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this technique
              >
              > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
              > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
              >
              > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
              >

            • gooseeye
              ... using ... microbes), and ... very ... some ... vinegar in ... this way ... hehe), ... to 15 ... rocks ... the ... technique ... about ... i say it depends
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Bravo,
                >
                > Trying to make a sucessful fermentation from wild fruits without
                using
                > camden tablets (ie. meta bi-sufites to distroy them nasty
                microbes), and
                > adding a reputable cultured wine yeast (ie. Lalvin strains - see the
                > Info base) , your just asking for problems.
                >
                > Trying to rely on only the wild yeasts found in the fruit skins is
                very
                > tricky and a risky business. You will have less then a 50/50 shot on
                > getting the right wild yeasts in your must - not to mention getting
                some
                > Acetic acid bacteria (see Acetobacter that will just produce
                vinegar in
                > your fermentation.) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetobacter>
                >
                > While the ancient Greeks and Romans fermented their grape wines
                this way
                > (not to mention stomping the juices down with their dirty feet
                hehe),
                > there are much more aniseptic ways of fermenting these days.
                >
                > I would do some more reading on this subject and listen to other
                > members.
                >
                > Vino es Veritas,
                >
                > Jim aka Waldo.
                >
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
                > <bravoseychelles@> wrote:
                > >
                > > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
                > >
                > > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the
                > good
                > > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
                > > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10
                to 15
                > > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
                > > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
                > > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated
                rocks
                > > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by
                the
                > > emersion of the hot rock
                > > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this
                technique
                > >
                > > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk
                about
                > > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
                > >
                > > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
                > >
                >
                i say it depends on how hi you shootin for where you is an how clean
                you work bout wild yeast.
                ole boys pa never noed bout store bought yeast unless he droped a
                cake in corn an the ole boys never messed with much til they got
                greedy an started for the hi teens an they didnt have much problem.
                maybe a barel every to years wouldnt work off right but only vineigar
                was if they left it out an mother came a callin. you want yeast go to
                grape vine an pull off one of them white swizeled up grapes an you
                set to go. if you makein wine to keep an aint country or a port
                sherry id be use inhibaters if not ole boys let it ride

                so im tole
              • mstehelin
                Bravo, Are you fermenting with the mashed fruit included or removed? If you include the pulp in your initial fermentation you have to stir the top down once a
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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                  Bravo,
                  Are you fermenting with the mashed fruit included or removed? If you
                  include the pulp in your initial fermentation you have to stir the top
                  down once a day so it won't go moldy. There is a great article on
                  Fermenting peaches on the Home Distiller forum. I would post a link
                  but it looks like the site is down. BTW That is Tinyurl? I See it when
                  people attach links here.
                  Cheers
                  M


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bravoseychelles"
                  <bravoseychelles@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > from local juice makers i would like to ask this question.
                  >
                  > it has been the case for lots of years that since we dont have the good
                  > yeast thats found and talked about in your discusssion the locals
                  > produce a local juice using fermented fruits over a period of 10 to 15
                  > days where a 8 to 12 alchohol is obtain.
                  > they do not boil the fruits or use hot water to start with.
                  > but during fermentation they from day to day includ a few heated rocks
                  > in the fermenting mash and that creates alot of bubling cause by the
                  > emersion of the hot rock
                  > does any body have any conment or any way of improving this technique
                  >
                  > im trying this out because since reading i find a lot of talk about
                  > taking the taste of yeast out of the distilled
                  >
                  > im very new actually still waiting for my first still to arrive
                  >
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