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Re: Rum spirits run advice appreciated...

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  • mavnkaf
    ... wines. Is it recommended to ... foreshots will I probably ... Hi Bill, I see Alex has already gave some advice which is good but like he said every one
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2008
      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I stripped 3 molasses washes and now have 12 liters of 35% low
      wines. Is it recommended to
      > throw any dunder back in the boiler for the spirits run? How much
      foreshots will I probably
      > get? How would you experienced rum makers make the cuts?
      > Thanks, Bill
      >


      Hi Bill, I see Alex has already gave some advice which is good but
      like he said every one has their own take on it, here's mine.

      For starters, dilute the low wines down to 27 % with your dunder, if
      this is your first spirit run for rum, you won't have any feints to
      add to the mix, other wise add them. The mix `might' look like this,
      1/3 feints, 1/3 low wines, 1/3 dunder but that's only a guide or
      starting point. You can change the amounts to suit your self.

      I can't help you with the fore shots question because that's like
      asking how long is a piece of string? For the question about cuts,
      first up have you got a parrot's beak? If not make one. They are very
      handy for reading the alcohol precentages.

      Some times I too wonder what is the best cuts for rum, so far the
      answer for me is, what ever I feel like!

      I have herd some people use 80%-60%, but I find that too nasty, my
      pot still only starts at 80%. Anyway, what I'm doing now is about
      75%-50% cuts. I have tried 75%-60% which I found to be a bit light
      in flavor but drinkable sooner. 75%-55% was good but for heavier
      flavor rum, you got to go deeper in the tails like the Arroyo's
      patent suggest.

      I won't try to explain it too much but this is what I did, start
      collecting at 75% to 50% then switch to the feints container, when
      the spirit is about 37% switch back to the spirit container or to a
      separate container if your not too sure about it, then run the still
      as far as you like or taste the spirit until you don't like it. I
      found using Arroyo's cut very heavy on the head if you got pissed on
      it, that might change if it was aged much longer, despite what I just
      said, it was very nice to drink.

      Also use the search engine in the distillers group paste in "Arroyo's
      patent", use other key words as well, the info is all there to read.
      There are some good rum e books t at Harry's web site

      http://tinyurl.com/aescm

      I hope this helps you, maybe others can chime in and tell of their
      experiences with cuts to suit rum.

      Cheers
      Marc
    • billfitz49
      Hi Marc and Alex, I appreciate all your good advice. I went ahead and did the spirit run without problems...the result of the middle run was about 4 liters of
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
        Hi Marc and Alex,
        I appreciate all your good advice. I went ahead and did the spirit run without
        problems...the result of the middle run was about 4 liters of 75 ABV. I threw out close to
        250 ml of foreshots, perhaps too much, and collected from 80 down to 65. Maybe I
        should have collected more before switching to tails but I didn't like the taste. Next time
        I'll go deeper into the tails like you suggest. I realize now I need to make a parrot's beak.
        My testing cylinder simply holds too much liquid. The product tastes slightly fruity and
        has a slightly bitter aftertaste. I think the bitterness comes from the blackstrap molasses.
        How do you guys improve the taste? Will it mellow with time or do you aerate and throw
        in oak chips? How long do you wait before trying it? Already started in on mine...
        Regards,
        Bill



        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I stripped 3 molasses washes and now have 12 liters of 35% low
        > wines. Is it recommended to
        > > throw any dunder back in the boiler for the spirits run? How much
        > foreshots will I probably
        > > get? How would you experienced rum makers make the cuts?
        > > Thanks, Bill
        > >
        >
        >
        > Hi Bill, I see Alex has already gave some advice which is good but
        > like he said every one has their own take on it, here's mine.
        >
        > For starters, dilute the low wines down to 27 % with your dunder, if
        > this is your first spirit run for rum, you won't have any feints to
        > add to the mix, other wise add them. The mix `might' look like this,
        > 1/3 feints, 1/3 low wines, 1/3 dunder but that's only a guide or
        > starting point. You can change the amounts to suit your self.
        >
        > I can't help you with the fore shots question because that's like
        > asking how long is a piece of string? For the question about cuts,
        > first up have you got a parrot's beak? If not make one. They are very
        > handy for reading the alcohol precentages.
        >
        > Some times I too wonder what is the best cuts for rum, so far the
        > answer for me is, what ever I feel like!
        >
        > I have herd some people use 80%-60%, but I find that too nasty, my
        > pot still only starts at 80%. Anyway, what I'm doing now is about
        > 75%-50% cuts. I have tried 75%-60% which I found to be a bit light
        > in flavor but drinkable sooner. 75%-55% was good but for heavier
        > flavor rum, you got to go deeper in the tails like the Arroyo's
        > patent suggest.
        >
        > I won't try to explain it too much but this is what I did, start
        > collecting at 75% to 50% then switch to the feints container, when
        > the spirit is about 37% switch back to the spirit container or to a
        > separate container if your not too sure about it, then run the still
        > as far as you like or taste the spirit until you don't like it. I
        > found using Arroyo's cut very heavy on the head if you got pissed on
        > it, that might change if it was aged much longer, despite what I just
        > said, it was very nice to drink.
        >
        > Also use the search engine in the distillers group paste in "Arroyo's
        > patent", use other key words as well, the info is all there to read.
        > There are some good rum e books t at Harry's web site
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/aescm
        >
        > I hope this helps you, maybe others can chime in and tell of their
        > experiences with cuts to suit rum.
        >
        > Cheers
        > Marc
        >
      • castillo.alex2008
        Hey Bill Comments in line How do you guys improve the taste? Aging with oak is mandatory. Some good begginning could be 5 - 10grams per liter at 55 - 60% ABV.
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008


          Hey Bill

          Comments in line

           How do you guys improve the taste?

          Aging with oak is mandatory.  Some good begginning could be 5 - 10grams per liter at 55 - 60% ABV.  In the other hand plenty of flavors may be added such as cloves, cinnamon, raisins, honey, etc.  Check previous messages.  I prepare my own macerations and add drops/mls. of each.  Take a look at message # 30068 here at new distillers.

          Will it mellow with time or do you aerate and throw

          > in oak chips?

          It will mellow with time, the more, the better.  I always wait at least a month for drinking it.  Recently, as Harry suggested I "burried" some of my hooch to be drank sometime next year, I´m planning to give from 6 to one year of aging.  I´ve never aerate so far, and these days is in fashion around here "natural aging without any external influence", but many people aerate, try both if you wish.

          How long do you wait before trying it?

          See above

          Already started in on mine...

          That´s normal when you´re begginning, but with time you´ll like more quality, more flavor, etc. so you´ll age longer.  That´s where the fun is I think; How will a 2 or 5 years old rum taste like? what if is spiced? How about using two different kinds of oak virgin and toasted? or American vs. French? etc.  So you see WE have a long road to walk...and we enjoy walking it, ain´t it?

          A!

        • billfitz49
          Do you toast your oak chips or buy them already toasted? Do you soak them in bourbon first before adding them to the rum or can you buy oak chips that are
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008
            Do you toast your oak chips or buy them already toasted? Do you soak them in bourbon
            first before adding them to the rum or can you buy oak chips that are made from old
            whiskey barrels?
            Thanks,
            Bill

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008" <castillo.alex2008@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Hey Bill
            >
            > Comments in line
            >
            > How do you guys improve the taste?
            >
            > Aging with oak is mandatory. Some good begginning could be 5 - 10grams
            > per liter at 55 - 60% ABV. In the other hand plenty of flavors may be
            > added such as cloves, cinnamon, raisins, honey, etc. Check previous
            > messages. I prepare my own macerations and add drops/mls. of each.
            > Take a look at message # 30068 here at new distillers.
            >
            > Will it mellow with time or do you aerate and throw
            > > in oak chips?
            >
            > It will mellow with time, the more, the better. I always wait at least
            > a month for drinking it. Recently, as Harry suggested I "burried" some
            > of my hooch to be drank sometime next year, I´m planning to give from
            > 6 to one year of aging. I´ve never aerate so far, and these days is
            > in fashion around here "natural aging without any external influence",
            > but many people aerate, try both if you wish.
            >
            > How long do you wait before trying it?
            >
            > See above
            >
            > Already started in on mine...
            >
            >
            > That´s normal when you´re begginning, but with time you´ll like
            > more quality, more flavor, etc. so you´ll age longer. That´s
            > where the fun is I think; How will a 2 or 5 years old rum taste like?
            > what if is spiced? How about using two different kinds of oak virgin and
            > toasted? or American vs. French? etc. So you see WE have a long road to
            > walk...and we enjoy walking it, ain´t it?
            >
            > A!
            >
          • mavnkaf
            ... soak them in bourbon ... are made from old ... Bill I ll do a deal with you, if you can tell me the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything, refering
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Do you toast your oak chips or buy them already toasted? Do you
              soak them in bourbon
              > first before adding them to the rum or can you buy oak chips that
              are made from old
              > whiskey barrels?
              > Thanks,
              > Bill
              >

              Bill I'll do a deal with you, if you can tell me the Answer to Life,
              the Universe, and Everything, refering to the number (42) of course,
              I'll tell you all I know about flavoring rum and what you should do
              with your oak chips:)

              But really Bill, please try the search engine 'in' Harry's new
              distillers and distillers yahoo groups. I'm not trying to be mean,
              this subject has been talked about many times, and by gentlemen who
              can explain the art of flavoring rum much better than I.
              Try "flavoring rum" in the search tool. I know it may sound the same
              old, "read, read and read" but over time here, I have found the
              term "research" is becoming my best friend so to speak. If I'm
              thinking about a problem with distilling, it's problably already been
              answered, either here in the acrhives or the distillers group.

              Sorry for no easy answer Bill. But hey I'm still up for the 42
              question!

              Cheers
              Marc

              btw, if people don't know where the search engine/tool is, PLease
              ask Jim or Mason nicely.
            • rye_junkie1
              ... soak them in bourbon ... are made from old ... A good source for oak chips (if your in the US) is the Jack Daniels Barrel Chips (not pellets) found in the
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008
                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...> wrote:
                >
                > Do you toast your oak chips or buy them already toasted? Do you
                soak them in bourbon
                > first before adding them to the rum or can you buy oak chips that
                are made from old
                > whiskey barrels?
                > Thanks,
                > Bill


                A good source for oak chips (if your in the US) is the Jack Daniels
                Barrel Chips (not pellets) found in the Barbecue section of some
                stores. These are made from Chopped up Jack Daniels barrels and have
                a strong whiskey small that carries over. Because they are chips a
                lot of the pieces are only charred on one edge. I use half the way
                they come from the bag and then Char the other half over my propane
                stove or in the toaster oven.
                http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2950589
                The link shows price for 6 bags. They can be purchased one at a time.


                Mason
              • castillo.alex2008
                Hey Bill Answers in line 1.Do you toast your oak chips or buy them already toasted? I don´t toast my oak chips, I buy them already toasted. I use to get mine
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008


                  Hey Bill

                  Answers in line

                  1.Do you toast your oak chips or buy them already toasted?

                  I don´t toast my oak chips, I buy them already toasted.  I use to get mine at

                  http://www.piwine.com

                  I use heavy toast (chips and sawdust) and virgin oak sawdust 

                  2.Do you soak them in bourbon

                  > first before adding them to the rum

                  No, but I´m planning to, since most rums are aged in used american bourbon barrels.  I´ll do my own whiskey (working on it now) and later use that used oak.  In the other hand working with unused oak could be "as good as it gets"

                  3.or can you buy oak chips that are made from old

                  > whiskey barrels?

                  See Mason´s message.

                  > Thanks,

                  Any time!

                  A!

                   

                • castillo.alex2008
                  Hey Mason, Interesting link Is it possible to order just one 2 lbs. pack? to be delivered by mail? Do these chips worth it? Have you tried ´em? Thanks, Alex
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008
                    Hey Mason,

                    Interesting link

                    Is it possible to order just one 2 lbs. pack?
                    to be delivered by mail?
                    Do these chips worth it?
                    Have you tried ´em?

                    Thanks,

                    Alex
                  • rye_junkie1
                    ... Hey Alex, Try this link. http://tinyurl.com/5w9kfz I have had a 1/2 gallon of Rum on these since early May. It has a beautiful dark color and now that I
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008
                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                      <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hey Mason,
                      >
                      > Interesting link
                      >
                      > Is it possible to order just one 2 lbs. pack?
                      > to be delivered by mail?
                      > Do these chips worth it?
                      > Have you tried ´em?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Alex

                      Hey Alex,
                      Try this link.
                      http://tinyurl.com/5w9kfz
                      I have had a 1/2 gallon of Rum on these since early May. It has a
                      beautiful dark color and now that I am letting it breath it is coming
                      around quite nicely. It has been in a half gallon Mason Jar and last
                      week after reading on the distillers list where a guy was aging with
                      cotton in the top of the Jar I decided to do the same except I just
                      screwed the lid Band down over a folded paper towel. After A week
                      its down 2% (still 60.5) but is pretty damn close to the bottle of
                      Appleton Estate Reserve I am comparing it to. Doing my best to keep
                      the taste tests to a minimum but so far its looking like I haven't
                      seen the last of that recipe. Gonna let it get to 50% and bottle it
                      for drinking. I have used them for A couple other small experiments
                      but cant really use those as a good test base. They are worth it so
                      far. Cant beat them for the price.

                      Mason
                    • castillo.alex2008
                      Hey Mason Really a cool link. In the past I´ve bought books from these people and they give good service. Taking a look at the other woods they show, have
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 5, 2008
                        Hey Mason

                        Really a cool link. In the past I´ve bought books from these people
                        and they give good service. Taking a look at the other woods they show,
                        have you used them? are they safe to be used? (maple, cherry, apple). I
                        think Hickory will only be good for BBQ.

                        In the other hand I´ve been "sipping" some bottles of JW Green Label
                        and in the back of the box they refer to cedar wood and sandalwood as
                        responsible for some of the flavor. This whisky is a blend from 4 big
                        Scotish distilleries (Linkwood uses cedar wood and Cragganmore uses
                        sandalwood, according to what they say). Where can you find those?
                        It´ll be interesting to experiment aging the same hooch in different
                        wood and later blend them. Now I´m actively working in Scotch via
                        DME/LME and Dextrose as well as peated malt. Maybe Harry and Jim can
                        give us some more input. Looking forward your answers while "sipping"
                        the green

                        Thanks,

                        Alex

                        P.D. Why always I end up asking questions that must be for the
                        Distillers forum here at ND?

                        P.D. 2- Boy! It´s been my 5th bottle of green since August without
                        including my own hooch.

                        P.D. 3-Sipping rigth now, cool!
                      • rye_junkie1
                        ... You are right on the Hickory. Its a little oily for our purpose. As for the others I have not tried them. But hear are some results from a little
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 6, 2008
                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                          <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hey Mason
                          >
                          > Really a cool link. In the past I´ve bought books from these people
                          > and they give good service. Taking a look at the other woods they show,
                          > have you used them? are they safe to be used? (maple, cherry, apple). I
                          > think Hickory will only be good for BBQ.

                          You are right on the Hickory. Its a little oily for our purpose. As
                          for the others I have not tried them. But hear are some results from
                          a little research.
                          While oak is the overwhelming wood of choice for wood aging, mesquite,
                          hickory, pecan, apple, orange, and cherry wood can also contribute
                          unique qualities to wines aged with their chips or shavings.
                          Gotta find me a bottle of this stuff:
                          http://culinarytypes.blogspot.com/2008/09/whisky-master-of-rappahannock-county.html
                          He seems to have tried a bunch and settled on Applewood.


                          > In the other hand I´ve been "sipping" some bottles of JW Green Label
                          > and in the back of the box they refer to cedar wood and sandalwood as
                          > responsible for some of the flavor. This whisky is a blend from 4 big
                          > Scotish distilleries (Linkwood uses cedar wood and Cragganmore uses
                          > sandalwood, according to what they say). Where can you find those?
                          > It´ll be interesting to experiment aging the same hooch in different
                          > wood and later blend them. Now I´m actively working in Scotch via
                          > DME/LME and Dextrose as well as peated malt. Maybe Harry and Jim can
                          > give us some more input. Looking forward your answers while "sipping"
                          > the green

                          The Green is some good Stuff. A friend gave me one of the gift boxes
                          that had 200ml bottles of Red, Gold ,Green, And Oh yes the BLUE. From
                          time to time the local Liqour store puts JW Black on sale for 25 bucks
                          a fifth. I usually take advantage of that one. The Red however gives
                          me a headache. I am also working on a malt whiskey. Got tha mash
                          clearing now and will distill to low wines this weekend.
                          Harry seems to be the local Scotch Guru. Jim seems to be MIA.
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Alex
                          >
                          > P.D. Why always I end up asking questions that must be for the
                          > Distillers forum here at ND?
                          I think this is a perfect subject for this group.
                          >
                          > P.D. 2- Boy! It´s been my 5th bottle of green since August without
                          > including my own hooch.

                          Some might call that a "problem" but I usually down a fifth to a liter
                          a week myself. When you do the math it works out to about 2-3 beers a
                          night which some studies I have read say is perfectly healthy and may
                          even help ward off things like Diabetes.
                          >
                          > P.D. 3-Sipping rigth now, cool!

                          At work right now. Only thing I am sipping on is Coffee, Hot!

                          Mason
                        • billfitz49
                          Hi Mason, For that aged rum that now tastes like Appleton Estate Reserve, what yeast did you use, and was it an all molasses wash? Thanks, Bill
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 8, 2008
                            Hi Mason,
                            For that aged rum that now tastes like Appleton Estate Reserve, what yeast did you use,
                            and was it an all molasses wash?
                            Thanks,
                            Bill

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                            > <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hey Mason,
                            > >
                            > > Interesting link
                            > >
                            > > Is it possible to order just one 2 lbs. pack?
                            > > to be delivered by mail?
                            > > Do these chips worth it?
                            > > Have you tried ´em?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > >
                            > > Alex
                            >
                            > Hey Alex,
                            > Try this link.
                            > http://tinyurl.com/5w9kfz
                            > I have had a 1/2 gallon of Rum on these since early May. It has a
                            > beautiful dark color and now that I am letting it breath it is coming
                            > around quite nicely. It has been in a half gallon Mason Jar and last
                            > week after reading on the distillers list where a guy was aging with
                            > cotton in the top of the Jar I decided to do the same except I just
                            > screwed the lid Band down over a folded paper towel. After A week
                            > its down 2% (still 60.5) but is pretty damn close to the bottle of
                            > Appleton Estate Reserve I am comparing it to. Doing my best to keep
                            > the taste tests to a minimum but so far its looking like I haven't
                            > seen the last of that recipe. Gonna let it get to 50% and bottle it
                            > for drinking. I have used them for A couple other small experiments
                            > but cant really use those as a good test base. They are worth it so
                            > far. Cant beat them for the price.
                            >
                            > Mason
                            >
                          • rye_junkie1
                            ... yeast did you use, ... First let me qualify my statement. The Rum that I made and am Aging is close to tasting like the Bottle of Appleton Reserve I have
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 10, 2008
                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Mason,
                              > For that aged rum that now tastes like Appleton Estate Reserve, what
                              yeast did you use,
                              > and was it an all molasses wash?
                              > Thanks,
                              > Bill


                              First let me qualify my statement. The Rum that I made and am Aging
                              is close to tasting like the Bottle of Appleton Reserve I have on
                              hand. The Bottle of Reserve is no Matusalem Solera Reserve by any
                              stretch though. Its Ok on the rocks or with 7up but not for sippin.
                              I like the Plain AE Jamaican Rum label better, and who knows, In a few
                              weeks I may have something more like that.
                              As for the recipe It was 3 pounds (2 bags) of Florida Crystals Organic
                              Brown Sugar http://mybrands.com/Product.aspx?pid=4837
                              The only place I have found this one is in Publix.
                              Also Four 12 oz jars of Grandmas Molasses original (yellow label)
                              http://www.grandmasmolasses.com/grandmas/grandmas_products.asp
                              and One 15oz jar of plantation brand Blackstrap molasses.
                              http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=blackstrap
                              Yeast was red star Yellow label.
                              The Grandmas stuff goes on sale down here in florida at wal mart this
                              time of year for 2.00/jar and makes it cheaper than buying a gallon
                              from say brewhaus and paying shipping.

                              Now for the process. I did 2 washes. The first was the above recipe
                              cut in half and eliminating the Blackstrap. Brought to an sg1.060.
                              Fermented it out let it clear and saved the dregs.
                              After I distilled the wash I immediately( while the wash was still
                              near boiling) took 2 gallons of the spent/cooked wash in the boiler
                              and added the above recipe in its entirety plus half the dregs, let
                              everything dissolve and disperse then topped up to 1.060 and added the
                              other half of the dregs/yeast. The top off with cold water got the
                              wash below 100F. When this one was done I did a strip run, Mixed the
                              2 runs together and did a Spirit run with some pretty tight cuts. The
                              half gallon i have aging was from the Very Middle.
                              Basically I did a Sweet Mash and then Sour mash and purposefully made
                              the first run small to obtain all the "Sour" ingredients. Right or
                              Wrong, so far it has worked.

                              Mason
                            • weisst69
                              I know there has been a lot of talk about dunder and a lot of talk about benefits of storing your wares in glass, but does dunder need to be sotred in glass?
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 10, 2008
                                I know there has been a lot of talk about dunder and a lot of talk
                                about benefits of storing your wares in glass, but does dunder need to
                                be sotred in glass? Can I store it in gallon milk jugs instead? That
                                would free up a bunch of mason jars for aging, etc.

                                Or would the milk jugs potentially leech chemicals into the dunder? I
                                am just looking for an way to save larger amounts of the stuff without
                                having a bunch of smaller containers running around everywhere.

                                Thanks!
                                T-
                              • mavnkaf
                                ... to ... That ... I ... without ... Hi T, I ve been using plastic coke bottles for my dunder for long time now. I have not noticed any plastic taint,
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 10, 2008
                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "weisst69" <toddweiss@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I know there has been a lot of talk about dunder and a lot of talk
                                  > about benefits of storing your wares in glass, but does dunder need
                                  to
                                  > be sotred in glass? Can I store it in gallon milk jugs instead?
                                  That
                                  > would free up a bunch of mason jars for aging, etc.
                                  >
                                  > Or would the milk jugs potentially leech chemicals into the dunder?
                                  I
                                  > am just looking for an way to save larger amounts of the stuff
                                  without
                                  > having a bunch of smaller containers running around everywhere.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks!
                                  > T-
                                  >

                                  Hi T, I've been using plastic coke bottles for my dunder for long time
                                  now. I have not noticed any plastic taint, dunder is low in acid and
                                  ethanol, I can't see a problem. Also you can see the sediment at the
                                  bottom of the bottle which I leave out any wash or spirit run. As the
                                  milk bottles go in Australia they are HDPE rated which is good, I'd
                                  check the recycling logo to see what plastic its made of.

                                  Cheers
                                  Marc
                                • billfitz49
                                  Mason, thanks for the detailed information. I like your Sweet mash, Sour mash system...I ll try it as I m not happy with my first few attempts. My second 2
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 12, 2008
                                    Mason, thanks for the detailed information. I like your Sweet mash, Sour mash system...I'll
                                    try it as I'm not happy with my first few attempts. My second 2 washes were pure
                                    blackstrap molasses and they only fermented out to a little over 5%. I thought the washes
                                    were stuck but it turned out this was due to the quality of the blackstrap molasses I
                                    bought from a local sugar factory (I live in Central America). What came out of the spirit
                                    run is slightly bitter (I cut out of the middle run at 65%). I hope it will mellow out with
                                    time. Anyways my next 2 washes are brown sugar with dunder added from the
                                    blackstrap runs, and in the future I want to use 'miel de cana' which is like a fancy grade,
                                    light molasses, and also try out cane juice. Anyways it's interesting experimenting with
                                    different mixtures.
                                    Regards,
                                    Bill
                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Mason,
                                    > > For that aged rum that now tastes like Appleton Estate Reserve, what
                                    > yeast did you use,
                                    > > and was it an all molasses wash?
                                    > > Thanks,
                                    > > Bill
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > First let me qualify my statement. The Rum that I made and am Aging
                                    > is close to tasting like the Bottle of Appleton Reserve I have on
                                    > hand. The Bottle of Reserve is no Matusalem Solera Reserve by any
                                    > stretch though. Its Ok on the rocks or with 7up but not for sippin.
                                    > I like the Plain AE Jamaican Rum label better, and who knows, In a few
                                    > weeks I may have something more like that.
                                    > As for the recipe It was 3 pounds (2 bags) of Florida Crystals Organic
                                    > Brown Sugar http://mybrands.com/Product.aspx?pid=4837
                                    > The only place I have found this one is in Publix.
                                    > Also Four 12 oz jars of Grandmas Molasses original (yellow label)
                                    > http://www.grandmasmolasses.com/grandmas/grandmas_products.asp
                                    > and One 15oz jar of plantation brand Blackstrap molasses.
                                    > http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=blackstrap
                                    > Yeast was red star Yellow label.
                                    > The Grandmas stuff goes on sale down here in florida at wal mart this
                                    > time of year for 2.00/jar and makes it cheaper than buying a gallon
                                    > from say brewhaus and paying shipping.
                                    >
                                    > Now for the process. I did 2 washes. The first was the above recipe
                                    > cut in half and eliminating the Blackstrap. Brought to an sg1.060.
                                    > Fermented it out let it clear and saved the dregs.
                                    > After I distilled the wash I immediately( while the wash was still
                                    > near boiling) took 2 gallons of the spent/cooked wash in the boiler
                                    > and added the above recipe in its entirety plus half the dregs, let
                                    > everything dissolve and disperse then topped up to 1.060 and added the
                                    > other half of the dregs/yeast. The top off with cold water got the
                                    > wash below 100F. When this one was done I did a strip run, Mixed the
                                    > 2 runs together and did a Spirit run with some pretty tight cuts. The
                                    > half gallon i have aging was from the Very Middle.
                                    > Basically I did a Sweet Mash and then Sour mash and purposefully made
                                    > the first run small to obtain all the "Sour" ingredients. Right or
                                    > Wrong, so far it has worked.
                                    >
                                    > Mason
                                    >
                                  • rye_junkie1
                                    ... Sour mash system...I ll ... washes were pure ... I thought the washes ... blackstrap molasses I ... came out of the spirit ... it will mellow out with ...
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 12, 2008
                                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billfitz49" <billfitz@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Mason, thanks for the detailed information. I like your Sweet mash,
                                      Sour mash system...I'll
                                      > try it as I'm not happy with my first few attempts. My second 2
                                      washes were pure
                                      > blackstrap molasses and they only fermented out to a little over 5%.
                                      I thought the washes
                                      > were stuck but it turned out this was due to the quality of the
                                      blackstrap molasses I
                                      > bought from a local sugar factory (I live in Central America). What
                                      came out of the spirit
                                      > run is slightly bitter (I cut out of the middle run at 65%). I hope
                                      it will mellow out with
                                      > time. Anyways my next 2 washes are brown sugar with dunder added
                                      from the
                                      > blackstrap runs, and in the future I want to use 'miel de cana'
                                      which is like a fancy grade,
                                      > light molasses, and also try out cane juice. Anyways it's
                                      interesting experimenting with
                                      > different mixtures.
                                      > Regards,
                                      > Bill

                                      Bill,
                                      What little I have read on black strap says a little goes a long way.
                                      I think all Black strap recipes were called "Monkey Rum" and the stuff
                                      was supposed to be pretty vile and Bitter as you say. I too will be
                                      trying Cane Juice here pretty soon. Since I will have an abundance of
                                      it I think I am going to try just plain cane juice and then also
                                      cooking some of it down and then adding water to lower the SG to 1.060
                                      and see if it really is worth it. My guess is it will be.
                                      I think if I can get enough cooked down to get 4-5 gallons of syrup I
                                      will be set for a few days.

                                      Mason
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