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Re: Tails

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  • Harry
    Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux still? Slainte! regards Harry
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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      Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux
      still?

      Slainte!
      regards Harry
    • daddyman00126
      ... OOOPs Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still that I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5 gallon SS to
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux
        > still?
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        >

        OOOPs

        Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still that
        I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5 gallon
        SS to collect in.

        Bill1burp
      • Harry
        ... reflux ... that ... gallon ... Then that is partly the problem. No reflux. The riser section (column) of your second still (a potstill) is nowhere near
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
          <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or
          reflux
          > > still?
          > >
          > > Slainte!
          > > regards Harry
          > >
          >
          > OOOPs
          >
          > Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still
          that
          > I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5
          gallon
          > SS to collect in.
          >
          > Bill1burp
          >


          Then that is partly the problem. No reflux. The riser section
          (column) of your second still (a potstill) is nowhere near big enough
          to give meaningful reflux.

          The huge 20 foot tall Scotch potstills get reflux due to the vast
          amount of surface area (riser or column) ABOVE the pot.

          Without some method of metering product output (a valve, as in reflux
          still designs) to allow total and/or partial refluxing in small
          stills, there is little or no reflux. Therein lies the fundamental
          difference between reflux stills & potstills for the hobbyist (small-
          scale) producer. If you want/need cleaner product, you need a better
          separator (still), or a better (few contaminants) starting
          wash/mash/fermentation in the first place.

          Purpose of reflux: To get better separation of ethanol from
          contaminants. No reflux = most contaminants stay in the booze.

          Purpose of copper mesh: twofold (depending on still design).

          1) In potstills, to remove sulfides from the process fluids;
          2) In REFLUX column, 1 above, AND to provide more surface area to
          perform process fluids contact (vapors & liquids).

          There is much to learn & consider when practicing spirits
          manufacture. But it's like riding a bike; it becomes automatic after
          a while. And it has pleasant rewards. :))


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
        • castillo.alex2008
          Hi ddman In the mean time (while you get a bigger column for a bigger/better reflux) you may want to use some baking soda to get rid of the nasties (esters)
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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            Hi ddman

            In the mean time (while you get a bigger column for a bigger/better
            reflux) you may want to use some baking soda to get rid of the
            nasties (esters) that are giving you a hard time. A few tbs per
            stripped gallon is a begginning. Shake it well and let it be for a
            day or two, then do your spirits run as usual.

            Alex
            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
            <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello folks
            >
            > I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar
            and
            > corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my
            > heads and tails from all my batches. During my spirit runs I have
            > been adding my heads from previous runs back into the batch and
            > distilling normally, taking care of pulling my foreshots, heads
            > before I start to collecting the heart. After the heart I collect
            the
            > tails and set them aside.
            >
            > On my last sugar run I did the strip run that went normal like the
            > rest I have done in the past. I collect the low wines in my second
            > still and added water and about 400ml to 600ml of heads from
            previous
            > batches.
            >
            > The first time I did my strip run I had a cold. I was unable to
            smell
            > or taste my product during the run. So after a few days I got rid
            of
            > my cold and was able to taste my product. My god it tasted like
            crap.
            > FOOT in big bold black letters was all I could think of.
            >
            > I must have messed up during my strip run and got some tails into
            the
            > batch so I just set it aside and waited until I had time to do the
            > spirit run again.
            >
            > This weekend I did the spirit run again and this time I do not have
            a
            > cold. I was able to get my still head up to about 177F where it set
            > for about 4 hours. My drip into my collection jar was about 4 to 6
            > drops per second. The column I have is a 2in by 2ft SS. I used
            copper
            > scrubbers packed into the column to get a bit of reflux.
            >
            > During the run I collected about 300ml of heads because I had added
            > about 400ml of heads to this run before I started. At about 183F I
            > had collected about 1.75L of 180 ABV. The next 300ml started
            tasting
            > like FOOT again so I started testing every 200ml so I could pin
            down
            > where my tails were comming in on my distillate.
            >
            > I pull about 600ml at 70 ABV that was not bad tasting but could be
            > carbon filtered and be ok for mixed beverage. The next 400ml
            smelled
            > like the big FOOT again, I checked my temp and I am setting at 187F.
            >
            > I decided to pull until I hit 190F. Within 5 minutes I had achieved
            > this and I shut down my still.
            >
            > Now for the questions.
            >
            > Why did I get the big bad FOOT so early in my distillate? Is it
            > because I have reran and reran my heads thru so many spirit runs?
            >
            > Any answers will be welcome.
            >
            > The best for last
            > BILL1BURP
            >
          • daddyman00126
            Thanks I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on what to do with the tails. I might try to age a pint or two on heavy oak just to see what it will do
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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              Thanks

              I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on what to do with the
              tails. I might try to age a pint or two on heavy oak just to see what
              it will do but most of it will go to killing the ant piles that persist
              in my back yard.

              Understanding that heads and tails are used to bring corn hooch to that
              certain flavor before aging I now have a real taste of what tails can
              do in moderation. I can now see that their is a place for heads and
              tails in my future batches of corn whiskey that I will want to age on
              some good oak.

              I think that having some tails around left over from previous corn
              batches and doing a taste test of the tails before I start my blending
              process will give me a better idea of what I want out of the final
              batch after oaking. Now I can see why master blenders are worth their
              weight in gold.

              I am cerious though, is there a set amount of tails that go into
              finished spirit runs that the major distillers do. Like for every 25
              gallons of corn hooch they would put in 1 gallon of tails???
              What a good learning experence.

              The best for last
              BILL1BURP
            • gerryruiz1701
              Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to cut or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 1, 2014
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                Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to "cut" or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?


              • Douglas French
                I cut heads and tails when I rerun tails . It Depends on the taste for me. Douglas French Caballeros, Inc./ Scorpion Mezcal sa de cv Oaxaca, Mexico Tel:
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 2, 2014
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                  I cut heads and tails when I rerun tails . It  Depends on the taste for me.
                   
                  Douglas French
                  Caballeros, Inc./ Scorpion Mezcal sa de cv
                  Oaxaca, Mexico
                  Tel: 52-951-516-0654
                  Destileria: 951-511-5701
                  Cel: 951 508 1030
                  www.scorpionmezcal.com
                  www.oaxacanstuff.com
                  Enviar factura o comprobante de pago a: scorpionfactura@...


                  From: "dfboss1@... [new_distillers]" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 9:48 PM
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Tails

                   
                  Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to "cut" or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?



                • Zapata Vive
                  Agreed, go by taste.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2014
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                    Agreed, go by taste. 
                  • hopefull romantic
                    No save all your heads and tails till enough and run them again taking out heads and tails which and throw those out
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 3, 2014
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                      No save all your heads and tails till enough  and run them again taking out heads and tails which  and throw those out

                    • edbar44
                      Is it really worth the effort? I save my tails and add them to the next wash I plan to distill, works fine. Unless you are using a very small apparatus, it
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 4, 2014
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                        Is it really worth the effort? I save my tails and add them to the next wash I plan to distill, works fine. Unless you are using a very small apparatus, it would take a long time to get enough to distill on its own.
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