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Tails

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  • daddyman00126
    Hello folks I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar and corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my heads and
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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      Hello folks

      I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar and
      corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my
      heads and tails from all my batches. During my spirit runs I have
      been adding my heads from previous runs back into the batch and
      distilling normally, taking care of pulling my foreshots, heads
      before I start to collecting the heart. After the heart I collect the
      tails and set them aside.

      On my last sugar run I did the strip run that went normal like the
      rest I have done in the past. I collect the low wines in my second
      still and added water and about 400ml to 600ml of heads from previous
      batches.

      The first time I did my strip run I had a cold. I was unable to smell
      or taste my product during the run. So after a few days I got rid of
      my cold and was able to taste my product. My god it tasted like crap.
      FOOT in big bold black letters was all I could think of.

      I must have messed up during my strip run and got some tails into the
      batch so I just set it aside and waited until I had time to do the
      spirit run again.

      This weekend I did the spirit run again and this time I do not have a
      cold. I was able to get my still head up to about 177F where it set
      for about 4 hours. My drip into my collection jar was about 4 to 6
      drops per second. The column I have is a 2in by 2ft SS. I used copper
      scrubbers packed into the column to get a bit of reflux.

      During the run I collected about 300ml of heads because I had added
      about 400ml of heads to this run before I started. At about 183F I
      had collected about 1.75L of 180 ABV. The next 300ml started tasting
      like FOOT again so I started testing every 200ml so I could pin down
      where my tails were comming in on my distillate.

      I pull about 600ml at 70 ABV that was not bad tasting but could be
      carbon filtered and be ok for mixed beverage. The next 400ml smelled
      like the big FOOT again, I checked my temp and I am setting at 187F.

      I decided to pull until I hit 190F. Within 5 minutes I had achieved
      this and I shut down my still.

      Now for the questions.

      Why did I get the big bad FOOT so early in my distillate? Is it
      because I have reran and reran my heads thru so many spirit runs?

      Any answers will be welcome.

      The best for last
      BILL1BURP
    • Harry
      Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux still? Slainte! regards Harry
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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        Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux
        still?

        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • daddyman00126
        ... OOOPs Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still that I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5 gallon SS to
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux
          > still?
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >

          OOOPs

          Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still that
          I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5 gallon
          SS to collect in.

          Bill1burp
        • Harry
          ... reflux ... that ... gallon ... Then that is partly the problem. No reflux. The riser section (column) of your second still (a potstill) is nowhere near
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
            <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or
            reflux
            > > still?
            > >
            > > Slainte!
            > > regards Harry
            > >
            >
            > OOOPs
            >
            > Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still
            that
            > I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5
            gallon
            > SS to collect in.
            >
            > Bill1burp
            >


            Then that is partly the problem. No reflux. The riser section
            (column) of your second still (a potstill) is nowhere near big enough
            to give meaningful reflux.

            The huge 20 foot tall Scotch potstills get reflux due to the vast
            amount of surface area (riser or column) ABOVE the pot.

            Without some method of metering product output (a valve, as in reflux
            still designs) to allow total and/or partial refluxing in small
            stills, there is little or no reflux. Therein lies the fundamental
            difference between reflux stills & potstills for the hobbyist (small-
            scale) producer. If you want/need cleaner product, you need a better
            separator (still), or a better (few contaminants) starting
            wash/mash/fermentation in the first place.

            Purpose of reflux: To get better separation of ethanol from
            contaminants. No reflux = most contaminants stay in the booze.

            Purpose of copper mesh: twofold (depending on still design).

            1) In potstills, to remove sulfides from the process fluids;
            2) In REFLUX column, 1 above, AND to provide more surface area to
            perform process fluids contact (vapors & liquids).

            There is much to learn & consider when practicing spirits
            manufacture. But it's like riding a bike; it becomes automatic after
            a while. And it has pleasant rewards. :))


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • castillo.alex2008
            Hi ddman In the mean time (while you get a bigger column for a bigger/better reflux) you may want to use some baking soda to get rid of the nasties (esters)
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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              Hi ddman

              In the mean time (while you get a bigger column for a bigger/better
              reflux) you may want to use some baking soda to get rid of the
              nasties (esters) that are giving you a hard time. A few tbs per
              stripped gallon is a begginning. Shake it well and let it be for a
              day or two, then do your spirits run as usual.

              Alex
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
              <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello folks
              >
              > I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar
              and
              > corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my
              > heads and tails from all my batches. During my spirit runs I have
              > been adding my heads from previous runs back into the batch and
              > distilling normally, taking care of pulling my foreshots, heads
              > before I start to collecting the heart. After the heart I collect
              the
              > tails and set them aside.
              >
              > On my last sugar run I did the strip run that went normal like the
              > rest I have done in the past. I collect the low wines in my second
              > still and added water and about 400ml to 600ml of heads from
              previous
              > batches.
              >
              > The first time I did my strip run I had a cold. I was unable to
              smell
              > or taste my product during the run. So after a few days I got rid
              of
              > my cold and was able to taste my product. My god it tasted like
              crap.
              > FOOT in big bold black letters was all I could think of.
              >
              > I must have messed up during my strip run and got some tails into
              the
              > batch so I just set it aside and waited until I had time to do the
              > spirit run again.
              >
              > This weekend I did the spirit run again and this time I do not have
              a
              > cold. I was able to get my still head up to about 177F where it set
              > for about 4 hours. My drip into my collection jar was about 4 to 6
              > drops per second. The column I have is a 2in by 2ft SS. I used
              copper
              > scrubbers packed into the column to get a bit of reflux.
              >
              > During the run I collected about 300ml of heads because I had added
              > about 400ml of heads to this run before I started. At about 183F I
              > had collected about 1.75L of 180 ABV. The next 300ml started
              tasting
              > like FOOT again so I started testing every 200ml so I could pin
              down
              > where my tails were comming in on my distillate.
              >
              > I pull about 600ml at 70 ABV that was not bad tasting but could be
              > carbon filtered and be ok for mixed beverage. The next 400ml
              smelled
              > like the big FOOT again, I checked my temp and I am setting at 187F.
              >
              > I decided to pull until I hit 190F. Within 5 minutes I had achieved
              > this and I shut down my still.
              >
              > Now for the questions.
              >
              > Why did I get the big bad FOOT so early in my distillate? Is it
              > because I have reran and reran my heads thru so many spirit runs?
              >
              > Any answers will be welcome.
              >
              > The best for last
              > BILL1BURP
              >
            • daddyman00126
              Thanks I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on what to do with the tails. I might try to age a pint or two on heavy oak just to see what it will do
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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                Thanks

                I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on what to do with the
                tails. I might try to age a pint or two on heavy oak just to see what
                it will do but most of it will go to killing the ant piles that persist
                in my back yard.

                Understanding that heads and tails are used to bring corn hooch to that
                certain flavor before aging I now have a real taste of what tails can
                do in moderation. I can now see that their is a place for heads and
                tails in my future batches of corn whiskey that I will want to age on
                some good oak.

                I think that having some tails around left over from previous corn
                batches and doing a taste test of the tails before I start my blending
                process will give me a better idea of what I want out of the final
                batch after oaking. Now I can see why master blenders are worth their
                weight in gold.

                I am cerious though, is there a set amount of tails that go into
                finished spirit runs that the major distillers do. Like for every 25
                gallons of corn hooch they would put in 1 gallon of tails???
                What a good learning experence.

                The best for last
                BILL1BURP
              • gerryruiz1701
                Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to cut or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 1, 2014
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                  Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to "cut" or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?


                • Douglas French
                  I cut heads and tails when I rerun tails . It Depends on the taste for me. Douglas French Caballeros, Inc./ Scorpion Mezcal sa de cv Oaxaca, Mexico Tel:
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2014
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                    I cut heads and tails when I rerun tails . It  Depends on the taste for me.
                     
                    Douglas French
                    Caballeros, Inc./ Scorpion Mezcal sa de cv
                    Oaxaca, Mexico
                    Tel: 52-951-516-0654
                    Destileria: 951-511-5701
                    Cel: 951 508 1030
                    www.scorpionmezcal.com
                    www.oaxacanstuff.com
                    Enviar factura o comprobante de pago a: scorpionfactura@...


                    From: "dfboss1@... [new_distillers]" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 9:48 PM
                    Subject: [new_distillers] Tails

                     
                    Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to "cut" or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?



                  • Zapata Vive
                    Agreed, go by taste.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 2, 2014
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                      Agreed, go by taste. 
                    • hopefull romantic
                      No save all your heads and tails till enough and run them again taking out heads and tails which and throw those out
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 3, 2014
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                        No save all your heads and tails till enough  and run them again taking out heads and tails which  and throw those out

                      • edbar44
                        Is it really worth the effort? I save my tails and add them to the next wash I plan to distill, works fine. Unless you are using a very small apparatus, it
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 4, 2014
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                          Is it really worth the effort? I save my tails and add them to the next wash I plan to distill, works fine. Unless you are using a very small apparatus, it would take a long time to get enough to distill on its own.
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