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Re: [new_distillers]vapor management

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  • John Vandermeulen
    Hi all, I seem to have missed the beginning of the vapor management discussion. Could someone point me to the beginnings of this method, or to a summary note?
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 3, 2002
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      Hi all,
      I seem to have missed the beginning of the vapor management discussion.
      Could someone point me to the beginnings of this method, or to a summary
      note? Is this primarily for S/N columns?
      John V

      peter_vcb wrote:

      > i did a run yesterday with my new modified still. 50 litre keg 2.8kW
      > 660mmx73mm column 100mm of copper turnings at the base then 18 s/s
      > scrubbers. it has a vapour management system on it.
    • Tony & Elle Ackland
      John, ... The vapour management design is one by Mike Nixon & Mike McCaw, fully described in their book The Compleat Distiller at
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 3, 2002
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        John,

        > I seem to have missed the beginning of the vapor management discussion.
        > Could someone point me to the beginnings of this method, or to a summary
        > note? Is this primarily for S/N columns?

        The "vapour management" design is one by Mike Nixon & Mike McCaw, fully
        described in their book "The Compleat Distiller" at
        http://www.amphora-society.com

        Without fully giving away what they're trying to sell, the basic principle
        is to split the large volume of VAPOUR into the ratio required for reflux &
        purity, rather than the present fiddly job of controlling the distillate.
        Seperate the vapour, and then condense the two streams seperately using
        two condensors. There is a diagram of this on their site, in the book
        section.

        Same basic prinicple as the older design (eg all condensation done at the
        top of a tall insulated column), and a control of the reflux ratio, but a
        different way of going about it. Its added claim to fame is that because
        its proportioning on a volume basis, it automatically maintains the same
        reflux ratio during the lower volume period late in the run.

        Tony
      • John Vandermeulen
        Thanks Tony, I asked about this as several members seem to go that way, and I do like to see what is up and coming. Incidentally, I had an interesting and
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 3, 2002
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          Thanks Tony,
          I asked about this as several members seem to go that way, and I do like to see
          what is up and coming.
          Incidentally, I had an interesting and useful experience with my reflux still.
          I had some feints (~2.5-3L) in the kettle for redistilling, turned on the heat
          (1000w full on) and went off, leaving the rig to heat up. When I returned I
          realized that it had heated up much sooner than normally (smaller volume), and
          it was dripping v. rapidly and had overflowed th 100mL catch jar. Prsumably
          the foreshot, and some amount of the heads had probably gone through by then.
          [I run a 2" x 40" packed column, 6 large scrubbies, 36" condenser. A cooling
          pipe passes thru the head of the column.]
          Now - I had neglected to turn on the condenser cooling water, and the scondary
          cooling 1/2" pipe in th head of the column. So - I had overflow, and head
          temp. was at 81oC, fairly steady.

          I immediately turned on the condenser cooling full on, and as well the
          secondary cooling pipe in the column head. In a few minutes the head temp.
          began to come down, and eventually settled on 79.1oC.

          I then measured the ABV in the overflow that had occurred around 81oC -
          82-83%abv; and in the condensate at 79.1oC - 91%abv.

          Neat, eh? The abv mirrored precisely what one would expect - an initial low
          reflux rate and fast condensation, and the subsequent return to a lowered
          reflux rate with both cooling lines flowing. Infact, the entire time that th
          column stayed at 79. oC the abv was 91%.
          John V

          Tony & Elle Ackland wrote:

          > John,
          >
          > > I seem to have missed the beginning of the vapor management discussion.
          > > Could someone point me to the beginnings of this method, or to a summary
          > > note? Is this primarily for S/N columns?
          >
          > The "vapour management" design is one by Mike Nixon & Mike McCaw, fully
          > described in their book "The Compleat Distiller" at
          > http://www.amphora-society.com
          >
          > Without fully giving away what they're trying to sell, the basic principle
          > is to split the large volume of VAPOUR into the ratio required for reflux &
          > purity, rather than the present fiddly job of controlling the distillate.
          > Seperate the vapour, and then condense the two streams seperately using
          > two condensors. There is a diagram of this on their site, in the book
          > section.
          >
          > Same basic prinicple as the older design (eg all condensation done at the
          > top of a tall insulated column), and a control of the reflux ratio, but a
          > different way of going about it. Its added claim to fame is that because
          > its proportioning on a volume basis, it automatically maintains the same
          > reflux ratio during the lower volume period late in the run.
          >
          > Tony
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



          --
          ├┐WPC5
        • stillyaakman
          Is there any reason not to use ball valves on a vapor management system? On 6/11 there was some discussion about vapor management. I got the mental impression
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 4, 2002
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            Is there any reason not to use ball valves on a vapor management
            system? On 6/11 there was some discussion about vapor management. I
            got the mental impression of a horizontal T with valves at both ends
            of the cross bar. Is that correct? Does the reflux side then go back
            to vertical?
            I am in the process of getting my boiler built. It is a Groen self
            contained steam kettle, 10 gal 10kw. It was rescued from a scrap pile
            where I used to work. One of the three elements was open, but thats
            ok since I don't have 3 phase power at my home. I rewired the
            elements in paralel.
            I am going to weld a flange to the kettle and to the bottom half of a
            keg I also had. That should give me an 18 gal. cap. I'm a little
            concerned that the joint between kettle and keg will hold the
            pressure of the liquid weight. I do not want it to be permanent
            (welded). The flange will be 11ga. stainless. Sound safe? Any ideas
            on bolt spacing and rtv as a gasket?
            I plan to have a ball valve at the dividing line with a 5/8" copper
            tube running from it down to the bottom of the kettle to syphon it
            empty when the run is finished.
            Does any one have thoughts or suggestions? If so they will be
            appreciated. Dan
          • Mike Nixon
            stillyaakman wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] vapor management Is there any reason not to use ball valves on a vapor management system? On 6/11 there was some
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 4, 2002
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              stillyaakman wrote:
              Subject: [new_distillers] vapor management

              Is there any reason not to use ball valves on a vapor management
              system? On 6/11 there was some discussion about vapor management. I
              got the mental impression of a horizontal T with valves at both ends
              of the cross bar. Is that correct? Does the reflux side then go back
              to vertical?
              ---------------------------------------------
              Ball valves are fine.
              One of the VM designs uses two valves, and one way of locating them at the
              ends of a T junction that sits on top of the column. Journeyman located one
              in a side arm to the product condenser, and one directly below the reflux
              condenser. Both work if you wish to have control over the whole range of
              reflux ratios. Just ensure that the product vapor path after the valve goes
              down, not up.
              Mike
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