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Re: Ethanol fuel

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  • rye_junkie1
    ... Morning Jay, While I am sure that more than a few of us have toyed with the idea of Biofuels and some are even part of those groups, We have always
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008
      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <ak_jay.1976@...> wrote:
      >
      > Has anyone ventured into the realm of fueling you cars with 'shine?
      >
      > I really want to do this but I'd like to chat with someone who's
      > been successful or unsuccessful at it. I am wondering about the
      > costs and weather or not it would even be worth it. I'm trying to
      > weigh the pros and cons, here's my plan:
      >
      > I want to build an ethanol still and fire it with a wood stove. The
      > stove will be short with a large, flat top surface about 3 ft
      > square. The stove will heat my house while running (pro) and the
      > boiler will sit right on top. It will be a tank with a capacity of
      > about 100-200 gallons. I don't think I can make it out of stainless
      > but aluminum is possible and if there were any way to make a steel
      > one work, that would be ideal because I already have a number of
      > steel tanks available that are the same dimensions as the surface of
      > the stove. Steel would be more cost effective for me, even if I
      > needed to replace it occasionally. As far as the column, again,
      > steel would be cheaper than copper or stainless, obviously but has
      > anyone ever used PVC for such a thing? Would it melt? As far as
      > the still goes, I am pretty good at finding the materials I need but
      > it sure would make things easier if common materials like steel were
      > possible.
      >
      > The mash is another concern. What is the cheapest, most plentiful
      > material that will ferment into alcohol? I've done some estimates
      > and I just don't see this being cost effective. Maybe in the
      > midwest where there is corn as far as you can see or in South
      > America where sugar cane grows almost as a weed, but I'm in the
      > middle of Alaska. Anything that can't be grown here needs to be
      > shipped here and that makes it spendy. I've got lots of spruce
      > trees! Will they make alcohol?
      >
      > And finally, my cars, 2 late model fuel-injected ones and a
      > carburated pickup. How much is involved in the changeover and will
      > they still run good in arctic conditions?
      >
      > I'm not so concerned with the startup costs, but I'd really like to
      > know if this is anywhere close to cost effective once it's up and
      > running. The fact that the unit will help heat my house is a huge
      > factor that works in my favor. Gasoline was 4.50 here this morning
      > and I think that if I could make ethanol for a dollar less than
      > that, it would be worth exploring.
      >
      > If there is another group that deals with this, feel free to just
      > point me towards them and be done with it but I didn't see any that
      > deal specifically with ethanol.
      >
      > Thanks guys,
      >
      > Jay


      Morning Jay,
      While I am sure that more than a few of us have toyed with the idea of
      Biofuels and some are even part of those groups, We have always
      discouraged that side of the topic here. Basically if its not about
      drinking it we dont discuss it. Jim can probably get you a couple of
      links to the fuel groups.

      Mason
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hello Jay, While this is a distilling site for imbibing the shine , we have discussed the realm of fueling for motor vehicles with E-85 bio-fuels. And your
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008

        Hello Jay,

        While this is a distilling site for imbibing the "shine", we have discussed the realm of  fueling for motor vehicles with E-85 bio-fuels.  And your totally correct - with the price of petro base fuels running so high now, bio-fuels are becomming the way to go.  These can be made from any excess corn, husks, stalks and any type of disposed / recycled fermentable stuff.

        However, the group that really can answer all of your questions is the Alcohol Fuel Group here in Yahoo, in which myself and others are members.  I also believe Harry (our Owner) knows their Owner.  I would go to: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/  Register and let them know we recommended you.  Im sure they can answer all of your questions. 

        Also Ken Mc. - If your reading this, sorry I didnt answer you private post last week  regarding the kids wanting info on bio-fuels, but as you know I was sick for a bit.

        This would also be the site you should go for information and im sure they can give your kids  the leads to good books etc. on bio-fuels.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <ak_jay.1976@...> wrote:
        >
        > Has anyone ventured into the realm of fueling you cars with 'shine?
        >
        > I really want to do this but I'd like to chat with someone who's
        > been successful or unsuccessful at it. I am wondering about the
        > costs and weather or not it would even be worth it. I'm trying to
        > weigh the pros and cons, here's my plan:
        >
        > I want to build an ethanol still and fire it with a wood stove. The
        > stove will be short with a large, flat top surface about 3 ft
        > square. The stove will heat my house while running (pro) and the
        > boiler will sit right on top. It will be a tank with a capacity of
        > about 100-200 gallons. I don't think I can make it out of stainless
        > but aluminum is possible and if there were any way to make a steel
        > one work, that would be ideal because I already have a number of
        > steel tanks available that are the same dimensions as the surface of
        > the stove. Steel would be more cost effective for me, even if I
        > needed to replace it occasionally. As far as the column, again,
        > steel would be cheaper than copper or stainless, obviously but has
        > anyone ever used PVC for such a thing? Would it melt? As far as
        > the still goes, I am pretty good at finding the materials I need but
        > it sure would make things easier if common materials like steel were
        > possible.
        >
        > The mash is another concern. What is the cheapest, most plentiful
        > material that will ferment into alcohol? I've done some estimates
        > and I just don't see this being cost effective. Maybe in the
        > midwest where there is corn as far as you can see or in South
        > America where sugar cane grows almost as a weed, but I'm in the
        > middle of Alaska. Anything that can't be grown here needs to be
        > shipped here and that makes it spendy. I've got lots of spruce
        > trees! Will they make alcohol?
        >
        > And finally, my cars, 2 late model fuel-injected ones and a
        > carburated pickup. How much is involved in the changeover and will
        > they still run good in arctic conditions?
        >
        > I'm not so concerned with the startup costs, but I'd really like to
        > know if this is anywhere close to cost effective once it's up and
        > running. The fact that the unit will help heat my house is a huge
        > factor that works in my favor. Gasoline was 4.50 here this morning
        > and I think that if I could make ethanol for a dollar less than
        > that, it would be worth exploring.
        >
        > If there is another group that deals with this, feel free to just
        > point me towards them and be done with it but I didn't see any that
        > deal specifically with ethanol.
        >
        > Thanks guys,
        >
        > Jay


        Morning Jay,
        While I am sure that more than a few of us have toyed with the idea of
        Biofuels and some are even part of those groups, We have always
        discouraged that side of the topic here. Basically if its not about
        drinking it we dont discuss it. Jim can probably get you a couple of
        links to the fuel groups.

        Mason

      • jay lagasse
        Thanks guys.   That was the group I was looking for, I should ve searched for alcohol rather than ethanol .   -Jay Thanks guys. That was the group I was
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008

          Thanks guys.
           
          That was the group I was looking for, I should've searched for "alcohol" rather than "ethanol".
           
          -Jay

        • jamesonbeam1
          More then Welcome Jay, When your ready to make some real drinkin type ethanol, please come back and visit. Vino es Veritas, Jim. ... for alcohol rather
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008
            More then Welcome Jay,

            When your ready to make some "real" drinkin' type ethanol, please come
            back and visit.

            Vino es Veritas,
            Jim.

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jay lagasse <ak_jay.1976@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Thanks guys.
            >  
            > That was the group I was looking for, I should've searched
            for "alcohol" rather than "ethanol".
            >  
            > -Jay
            >
          • gff_stwrt
            ... snip ... The ... snip Jay, I know you will be moving to one of the alcohol fuel groups, but here is something to take with you. This sounds a bit like
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <ak_jay.1976@> wrote:

              snip

              > > I want to build an ethanol still and fire it with a wood stove.
              The
              > > stove will be short with a large, flat top surface about 3 ft
              > > square. The stove will heat my house while running (pro) and the
              > > boiler will sit right on top. It will be a tank with a capacity of
              > > about 100-200 gallons.

              snip

              Jay, I know you will be moving to one of the alcohol fuel groups, but
              here is something to take with you.

              This sounds a bit like putting a bomb in the middle of your house!

              And if ever there WAS a fire or explosion at your house you can
              probably forget any possibility of an insurance payout!

              Regards,

              The Baker

              (Geoff Stewart, BA, DipAII, AAII (Life, Fire, Accident)

              (All except the first of those are for insurance))
            • jamesonbeam1
              Your SOOOO Correct Baker, I didn t read through the whole message, just gave him the link as Mason asked. However, Im sure when our friends in Alcohol Fuel
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008
                Your SOOOO Correct Baker,

                I didn't read through the whole message, just gave him the link as Mason
                asked.

                However, Im sure when our friends in Alcohol Fuel read his plans, all
                kinds of alarms will be sounded. Not to mention the fact that if 200 /
                300 gallons did blow, there probably wouldn't be anything left of him,
                or his house or the neighbors....

                Thanks.

                Vino es Veritas,

                Jim.


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <ak_jay.1976@> wrote:
                >
                > snip
                >
                > > > I want to build an ethanol still and fire it with a wood stove.
                > The
                > > > stove will be short with a large, flat top surface about 3 ft
                > > > square. The stove will heat my house while running (pro) and the
                > > > boiler will sit right on top. It will be a tank with a capacity of
                > > > about 100-200 gallons.
                >
                > snip
                >
                > Jay, I know you will be moving to one of the alcohol fuel groups, but
                > here is something to take with you.
                >
                > This sounds a bit like putting a bomb in the middle of your house!
                >
                > And if ever there WAS a fire or explosion at your house you can
                > probably forget any possibility of an insurance payout!
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > The Baker
                >
                > (Geoff Stewart, BA, DipAII, AAII (Life, Fire, Accident)
                >
                > (All except the first of those are for insurance))
                >
              • jay lagasse
                Hehe, I like to live life on the edge!  Of course I thought about the risks.  Thanks for the concern, anyway.  I don t think I ll be doing it anyway, I did
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008
                  Hehe, I like to live life on the edge!  Of course I thought about the risks.  Thanks for the concern, anyway.  I don't think I'll be doing it anyway, I did some quick math after doing some research on their site and it looks like the best case scenario would have me producing fuel for a couple dollars per gallon more than gasoline.  I'll stick to drinking the stuff, thank you very much!
                   
                  Later,
                  Jay

                  --- On Sat, 8/2/08, jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                  From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Ethanol fuel
                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 3:24 AM


                  Your SOOOO Correct Baker,

                  I didn't read through the whole message, just gave him the link as Mason
                  asked.

                  However, Im sure when our friends in Alcohol Fuel read his plans, all
                  kinds of alarms will be sounded. Not to mention the fact that if 200 /
                  300 gallons did blow, there probably wouldn't be anything left of him,
                  or his house or the neighbors... .

                  Thanks.

                  Vino es Veritas,

                  Jim.

                  --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@. ..>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "Jay" <ak_jay.1976@ > wrote:
                  >
                  > snip
                  >
                  > > > I want to build an ethanol still and fire it with a wood stove.
                  > The
                  > > > stove will be short with a large, flat top surface about 3 ft
                  > > > square. The stove will heat my house while running (pro) and the
                  > > > boiler will sit right on top. It will be a tank with a capacity of
                  > > > about 100-200 gallons.
                  >
                  > snip
                  >
                  > Jay, I know you will be moving to one of the alcohol fuel groups, but
                  > here is something to take with you.
                  >
                  > This sounds a bit like putting a bomb in the middle of your house!
                  >
                  > And if ever there WAS a fire or explosion at your house you can
                  > probably forget any possibility of an insurance payout!
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > The Baker
                  >
                  > (Geoff Stewart, BA, DipAII, AAII (Life, Fire, Accident)
                  >
                  > (All except the first of those are for insurance))
                  >


                • jamesonbeam1
                  Good Choice Jay, Just to show ya, even the Professionals have problems..... Check these picts out - from a next door neighbor one state over in Kentucky
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008

                    Good Choice Jay,

                    Just to show ya, even the "Professionals" have problems.....   Check these picts out - from a "next door neighbor" one state over in Kentucky :).

                    Vino es Veritas,

                    Jim.  

                     

                    1997  Heaven Hill Distillery Bardstown Kentucky.

                    This photo is from the 1997 fire at Heaven Hill Distillery. (photos courtesy of The Kentucky Standard).

                    Another photo from the Heaven Hill fire. Kentucky Standard staff members at the scene reported huge fireballs of unburnt alcohol that were forced hundreds of feet into the air until they found oxygen to combust.

                     The warehouse was previously a brewery but had been turned into a gin and vodka distillery prior to the fire.

                    G & J Greenall has been based in the North West since 1761

                    2006  Greenall's Distillery
                    Cheshire England

                    This is what's left after an arsonist set it alight.  Proving once again that alcohol is a highly flammable fuel.  All it needs is air (oxygen) and an ignition source (flame or spark).

                     


                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jay lagasse <ak_jay.1976@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hehe, I like to live life on the edge!  Of course I thought about the risks.  Thanks for the concern, anyway.  I don't think I'll be doing it anyway, I did some quick math after doing some research on their site and it looks like the best case scenario would have me producing fuel for a couple dollars per gallon more than gasoline.  I'll stick to drinking the stuff, thank you very much!
                    >  
                    > Later,
                    > Jay

                  • Harry
                    ... the risks.  Thanks for the concern, anyway.  I don t think I ll be doing it anyway, I did some quick math after doing some research on their site and it
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008
                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jay lagasse <ak_jay.1976@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hehe, I like to live life on the edge!  Of course I thought about
                      the risks.  Thanks for the concern, anyway.  I don't think I'll be
                      doing it anyway, I did some quick math after doing some research on
                      their site and it looks like the best case scenario would have me
                      producing fuel for a couple dollars per gallon more than gasoline. 
                      I'll stick to drinking the stuff, thank you very much!
                      >  
                      > Later,
                      > Jay



                      I dunno why ppl don't see the light. Make yer own booze (and yer
                      family's/friends). Money saved (60-80 bucks/week?) stick it in yer
                      gas tank. Everyone smiles ('ceptin' the taxman <BG>).

                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
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