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Re: Calculations

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  • daddyman00126
    I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit this topic in the past but,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 1, 2008
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      I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One
      final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit this
      topic in the past but, why would I delute the low wines with water? I
      have a pot still and am using propane for heat. I do not have to
      worry running it dry, or do I?

      The best for last
      BILL1BURP

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
      <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hey Bill,
      >
      > If you finished with about 3 gallons of 47% ABV low wines, I would
      > dilute that to around 30% or so :
      > Dilute L US fl oz US cups US pint US qt US gal of % alcohol Down
      to
      > % By adding L US fl oz US cups US pints US qt US gal Water
      > When you distill this and make your cuts, (about 4.70 gallons of
      > distillate), the cuts average about:
      >
      > 2-3% Foreshots
      >
      > 17 - 20% Heads
      >
      > 57 -60% Middle Run (Hearts)
      >
      > 22 - 25% Tails
      >
      > (For a total of 100%)
      >
      > By taking your cuts in around 250 mL increments (I use 12 - 500 ml
      > mason jars for mine), you should, by tasting and mixing some heads,
      the
      > hearts and some tails, get about 75 - 80% of this.
      >
      > So that would be almost 2 gallons of around 60% (120 proof) [4.7
      > gallons * .80 = 3.76 gallons @ 30% ABV / 2 = 1.88 gallons @ 60%
      ABV]
      > which is the suggested level for aging on oak...
      >
      > But its only 6:15 AM here and Ive been up since 3 making some new
      Rum
      > wash, so my math may be off... [:)] [:)] [:)]
      >
      > Vino es Veritas,
      >
      > Jim.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
      > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Well I just finished my last strip run. I now have just under 3
      > gallons of 47 ABV low wines all made from the corn flake and corn
      > meal recipe.
      >
      > Here soon I will be getting my 8 liter barrel ready for the final
      > product. If I could get someone to check out my calculations below
      > and let me know if I screwed something up that would be great.
      >
      > BILL1BURP
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/post?
      postID=XQNunaw_hPDXuB\
      > P6RDisDQ8Vym5rVZ5eY6thGEF46LfI4F5SMaTCLYh-
      BXv3YTDHtZmryktaojxiYHxcFS6tCE\
      > AVzZcGAvk> , "daddyman00126"
      > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I am getting prepared on filling a 8 liter barrel with corn
      alcohol.
      > >
      > > On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce
      > about
      > > 85 ABV starting and will finish at about 65 ABV before I hit tails
      > > real bad.
      > >
      > > These are my calculations.
      > >
      > > 11.3 liters of low wines at 45% ABV and if I go with the mid range
      > > (65% thru 85%) and use 75% ABV as a final measurement then I
      should
      > > get about 6.4 liters of 75% ABV worth of whishey.
      > >
      > > Now taking
      > > 6.4 liters at 75% ABV and adding 2.3 liters of water will get me
      > > close to 55% ABV.
      > >
      > > 6.4 + 2.3 = 8.7 liters of 55% whiskey to add to barrel.
      > >
      > > Now I will let this sit for about 3 to 6 months. I will draw off
      > 3.2
      > > liters of whiskey and add back to the barrel the same amount in
      > water
      > > dropping my ABV to 40%
      > >
      > > This I will allow to set another 3 to 6 months.
      > > Finished product I am hoping will produce a nice whisky with some
      > > vanillins and a touch of sweet to it.
      > >
      > > Comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
      > > Thanks
      > >
      > > BILL1BURP
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hey Bill, Good question. There are 2 basic reasons for doing this. The first is for saftety reasons, due to the highly explosive properties of high ABV
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 1, 2008
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        Hey Bill,

        Good question.  There are 2 basic reasons for doing this.  

        The first is for saftety reasons, due to the highly explosive properties of high ABV alcohol fumes.  The second and main reason are to allow additional flavors to come through in making a whiskey.  I forgot to tell you to use backset (sour mash) instead of water for dilution and  to add to these flavors in my first posting. 

        The concept here, is that on the second (or third) distillation, you want to lower the ABV of the low wines so you wont get such a high ethanol percent on the spirits run.  This allows more of the grain flavors to come through in your final product.  To take this to extremes, if you used a reflux still and distilled up to azeotrophe (95.6%) ABV, you would get a neutral alcohol with NO flavors...

        If you review Tony's Pot still purity chart,  at a 47% ABV level,  20 liters would give you something like this:

        Input your Pot still characteristics

        Initial Volume of Wash L
        Alcohol Content % by volume
        Initial Temperature C
        Power during Heat-up W
        Power during Distillation W
        %Internal Reflux %
        Time-step for calculation min


        Results

        Time to Heat up Still contents

        TimeTempCollectedPurityTotal CollectedTotal Purity

        This would give you more alcohol and less flavors.  By diluting you low wines to 30% or so, it will give you a lower ABV and ability to make finer cuts, like this:

        Input your Pot still characteristics

        Initial Volume of Wash L
        Alcohol Content % by volume
        Initial Temperature C
        Power during Heat-up W
        Power during Distillation W
        %Internal Reflux %
        Time-step for calculation min


        Results

        Time to Heat up Still contents

        TimeTempCollectedPurityTotal CollectedTotal Purity

        As you can see, the overall  ABV after 200 minutes is 64% , which is almost ideal for aging on oak.   Of course keep in mind, your going to doing your cuts to all this so it wont come out exact....

        Harry and Sherman put together some excellent charts during a discussion we had on Whiskey making in Advanced Distillers.  This one gives you an idea of how diluting your low wines will give you a lower ABV in your final spirits run


        Also review this discussion starting with http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41750  and read Harry' s Article on Dilution of Alcohol :

        http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/

        Hope this helps.

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim.

         

         

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126" <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
        >
        > I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One
        > final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit this
        > topic in the past but, why would I delute the low wines with water? I
        > have a pot still and am using propane for heat. I do not have to
        > worry running it dry, or do I?
        >
        > The best for last
        > BILL1BURP

      • daddyman00126
        Thanks for the info Jim I did put aside 2 gallons of backset from my last strip run. So I do have something to dilute my low wines with. I do like the ability
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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          Thanks for the info Jim

          I did put aside 2 gallons of backset from my last strip run. So I do
          have something to dilute my low wines with. I do like the ability to
          add more flavor to my low wines, never thought about using backset to
          do it thou.

          Thanks for the tip

          The best for last
          BILL1BURP

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
          <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hey Bill,
          >
          > Good question. There are 2 basic reasons for doing this.
          >
          > The first is for saftety reasons, due to the highly explosive
          properties
          > of high ABV alcohol fumes. The second and main reason are to allow
          > additional flavors to come through in making a whiskey. I forgot to
          > tell you to use backset (sour mash) instead of water for dilution
          and
          > to add to these flavors in my first posting.
          >
          > The concept here, is that on the second (or third) distillation, you
          > want to lower the ABV of the low wines so you wont get such a high
          > ethanol percent on the spirits run. This allows more of the grain
          > flavors to come through in your final product. To take this to
          > extremes, if you used a reflux still and distilled up to azeotrophe
          > (95.6%) ABV, you would get a neutral alcohol with NO flavors...
          >
          > If you review Tony's Pot still purity chart, at a 47% ABV level,
          20
          > liters would give you something like this:
          >
          >
          > Input your Pot still characteristics
          > Initial Volume of Wash L
          > Alcohol Content % by volume
          > Initial Temperature C
          > Power during Heat-up W
          > Power during Distillation W
          > %Internal Reflux %
          > Time-step for calculation min
          >
          > Results
          > Time to Heat up Still contents
          >
          > Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity
          >
          > This would give you more alcohol and less flavors. By diluting you
          low
          > wines to 30% or so, it will give you a lower ABV and ability to make
          > finer cuts, like this:
          >
          >
          > Input your Pot still characteristics
          > Initial Volume of Wash L
          > Alcohol Content % by volume
          > Initial Temperature C
          > Power during Heat-up W
          > Power during Distillation W
          > %Internal Reflux %
          > Time-step for calculation min
          >
          >
          >
          > Results
          > Time to Heat up Still contents
          >
          >
          >
          > Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity
          >
          > As you can see, the overall ABV after 200 minutes is 64% , which is
          > almost ideal for aging on oak. Of course keep in mind, your going
          to
          > doing your cuts to all this so it wont come out exact....
          >
          > Harry and Sherman put together some excellent charts during a
          discussion
          > we had on Whiskey making in Advanced Distillers. This one gives
          you an
          > idea of how diluting your low wines will give you a lower ABV in
          your
          > final spirits run
          >
          >
          > Also review this discussion starting with
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41750
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41750> and read
          > Harry' s Article on Dilution of Alcohol :
          >
          > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/
          > <http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/>
          >
          > Hope this helps.
          >
          > Vino es Veritas,
          >
          > Jim.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
          > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One
          > > final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit
          this
          > > topic in the past but, why would I delute the low wines with
          water? I
          > > have a pot still and am using propane for heat. I do not have to
          > > worry running it dry, or do I?
          > >
          > > The best for last
          > > BILL1BURP
          >
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