## Calculations

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• I am getting prepared on filling a 8 liter barrel with corn alcohol. On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce about 85 ABV starting and
Message 1 of 7 , Jun 8, 2008
I am getting prepared on filling a 8 liter barrel with corn alcohol.

On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce about
85 ABV starting and will finish at about 65 ABV before I hit tails

These are my calculations.

11.3 liters of low wines at 45% ABV and if I go with the mid range
(65% thru 85%) and use 75% ABV as a final measurement then I should
get about 6.4 liters of 75% ABV worth of whishey.

Now taking
6.4 liters at 75% ABV and adding 2.3 liters of water will get me
close to 55% ABV.

6.4 + 2.3 = 8.7 liters of 55% whiskey to add to barrel.

Now I will let this sit for about 3 to 6 months. I will draw off 3.2
liters of whiskey and add back to the barrel the same amount in water
dropping my ABV to 40%

This I will allow to set another 3 to 6 months.
Finished product I am hoping will produce a nice whisky with some
vanillins and a touch of sweet to it.

Comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks

BILL1BURP
• Well I just finished my last strip run. I now have just under 3 gallons of 47 ABV low wines all made from the corn flake and corn meal recipe. Here soon I will
Message 2 of 7 , Jun 29, 2008
Well I just finished my last strip run. I now have just under 3
gallons of 47 ABV low wines all made from the corn flake and corn
meal recipe.

Here soon I will be getting my 8 liter barrel ready for the final
product. If I could get someone to check out my calculations below
and let me know if I screwed something up that would be great.

BILL1BURP

>
> I am getting prepared on filling a 8 liter barrel with corn alcohol.
>
> On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce
> 85 ABV starting and will finish at about 65 ABV before I hit tails
>
> These are my calculations.
>
> 11.3 liters of low wines at 45% ABV and if I go with the mid range
> (65% thru 85%) and use 75% ABV as a final measurement then I should
> get about 6.4 liters of 75% ABV worth of whishey.
>
> Now taking
> 6.4 liters at 75% ABV and adding 2.3 liters of water will get me
> close to 55% ABV.
>
> 6.4 + 2.3 = 8.7 liters of 55% whiskey to add to barrel.
>
> Now I will let this sit for about 3 to 6 months. I will draw off
3.2
> liters of whiskey and add back to the barrel the same amount in
water
> dropping my ABV to 40%
>
> This I will allow to set another 3 to 6 months.
> Finished product I am hoping will produce a nice whisky with some
> vanillins and a touch of sweet to it.
>
> Comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
> Thanks
>
> BILL1BURP
>
• ... tails ... range ... should ... Those calcs are ballpark numbers at best, only a guide. Your calcs will be out for a number of reasons. 1. Still efficiency.
Message 3 of 7 , Jun 29, 2008
>
> Well I just finished my last strip run. I now have just under 3
> gallons of 47 ABV low wines all made from the corn flake and corn
> meal recipe.
>
> Here soon I will be getting my 8 liter barrel ready for the final
> product. If I could get someone to check out my calculations below
> and let me know if I screwed something up that would be great.
>
> >
> > On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce
> > 85 ABV starting and will finish at about 65 ABV before I hit
tails
> >
> > These are my calculations.
> >
> > 11.3 liters of low wines at 45% ABV and if I go with the mid
range
> > (65% thru 85%) and use 75% ABV as a final measurement then I
should
> > get about 6.4 liters of 75% ABV worth of whishey.
> >
> > Now taking
> > 6.4 liters at 75% ABV and adding 2.3 liters of water will get me
> > close to 55% ABV.
> >
> > 6.4 + 2.3 = 8.7 liters of 55% whiskey to add to barrel.
> >
> > Now I will let this sit for about 3 to 6 months. I will draw off
> 3.2
> > liters of whiskey and add back to the barrel the same amount in
> water
> > dropping my ABV to 40%
> >
> > This I will allow to set another 3 to 6 months.
> > Finished product I am hoping will produce a nice whisky with some
> > vanillins and a touch of sweet to it.
> >
> > Comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
> > Thanks
> >
> > BILL1BURP
> >
>

Those calcs are ballpark numbers at best, only a guide.

Your calcs will be out for a number of reasons.
1. Still efficiency.
2. Stillman efficiency/expertise.
3. Soakage into the wood.
4. Angel's share
5. 1 vol alc + 1 vol water finishes up LESS than 2 volumes.
This is because the water molecules are smaller than the alcohol
molecules and fit in between (Analogy: think large pebbles in a
bucket and then pouring in fine sand). Weight is a better
measurement to use for precision, but this is amateur distilling, no
need to be that accurate. It's not as if you're gauging excise tax.

Calcs can never be precise in the smaller quantities, certainly not
to decimal points.

Try this...
Do your spirit run on the low wines. Determine the volume you
achieve and the %a/v. Now dilute it using charts and a good spirit
hydrometer, allowing for temp adjustment. There's a precision chart
here...
http://www.alcbevtesting.com/PDF_Files/AlcoholDilutionTable.pdf

Now fill your cask. Give it a month or so then run it all out and
measure the volume and strength. It will be lower volume than your
starting figure when you filled the cask. The difference in volume
will be mostly soakage taken up by the wood, and a little bit for
Angel's share (it's only been in wood for a month).

The Angel's share needs more explanation. In cask aging, you will
always lose some liquid volume due to evaporation. This is somewhere
in the order of 2% overall per year, but varies widely depending on
cask size and climate. How much of that loss is alc & how much is
water largely depends on your prevailing climate. In hot climates
the measured strength may even be higher than you started with, but
at the same time the overall volume will be down compared to a cold
climate. This is seen in places like Louisiana in the USA. By
comparison, in Scotland alc loss is consistently 2% per year but the
overall volume of the liquid remains somewhat higher.

Hot climate = marginally higher %alc & much lower volume (high water
evaporation).
Cold climate = lower %alc & better overall volume (high alc
evaporation) . The Angels get their cut one way or t'other.

Since the taxation is on the alcohol content alone, not the overall
volume, it makes no difference to the authorities where the spirit is
aged. But it makes a difference to the makers regarding the volume
available for sale.

brew. After taking your measurements at 1 month in, if you want to
reduce it further in strength, do it with your new figures and the
dilution chart and hydrometer. Or just accept it for what it is and

If you want all this to be repeatable, I suggest you keep good
written notes of everything you do for a year or two. That's the

I Hope this has been useful to you.

Slainte!
regards Harry
• Hey Bill, If you finished with about 3 gallons of 47% ABV low wines, I would dilute that to around 30% or so : Dilute L US fl oz US cups US pint US qt US
Message 4 of 7 , Jun 30, 2008

Hey Bill,

If you finished with about 3 gallons of 47% ABV low wines,  I would dilute that to around 30% or so :

 Dilute LUS fl ozUS cupsUS pintUS qtUS gal of % alcohol Down to % By adding LUS fl ozUS cupsUS pintsUS qtUS gal Water

When you distill this and make your cuts, (about 4.70 gallons of distillate),  the cuts average about:

2-3%  Foreshots

57 -60% Middle Run (Hearts)

22 - 25% Tails

(For a total of 100%)

By taking your cuts in around 250 mL increments (I use 12 -  500 ml mason jars for mine), you should, by tasting and mixing some heads, the hearts and some tails, get about 75 - 80% of this.

So that would be almost 2 gallons of around 60% (120 proof)  [4.7 gallons * .80 = 3.76 gallons @ 30% ABV / 2 = 1.88 gallons @ 60% ABV]  which is the suggested level for aging on oak...

But its only 6:15 AM here and Ive been up since 3 making some new Rum wash, so my math may be off...

Vino es Veritas,

Jim.

Well I just finished my last strip run. I now have just under 3
gallons of 47 ABV low wines all made from the corn flake and corn
meal recipe.

Here soon I will be getting my 8 liter barrel ready for the final
product. If I could get someone to check out my calculations below
and let me know if I screwed something up that would be great.

BILL1BURP

>
> I am getting prepared on filling a 8 liter barrel with corn alcohol.
>
> On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce
> 85 ABV starting and will finish at about 65 ABV before I hit tails
>
> These are my calculations.
>
> 11.3 liters of low wines at 45% ABV and if I go with the mid range
> (65% thru 85%) and use 75% ABV as a final measurement then I should
> get about 6.4 liters of 75% ABV worth of whishey.
>
> Now taking
> 6.4 liters at 75% ABV and adding 2.3 liters of water will get me
> close to 55% ABV.
>
> 6.4 + 2.3 = 8.7 liters of 55% whiskey to add to barrel.
>
> Now I will let this sit for about 3 to 6 months. I will draw off
3.2
> liters of whiskey and add back to the barrel the same amount in
water
> dropping my ABV to 40%
>
> This I will allow to set another 3 to 6 months.
> Finished product I am hoping will produce a nice whisky with some
> vanillins and a touch of sweet to it.
>
> Comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
> Thanks
>
> BILL1BURP

• I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit this topic in the past but,
Message 5 of 7 , Jul 1 2:59 AM
I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One
final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit this
topic in the past but, why would I delute the low wines with water? I
have a pot still and am using propane for heat. I do not have to
worry running it dry, or do I?

The best for last
BILL1BURP

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> If you finished with about 3 gallons of 47% ABV low wines, I would
> dilute that to around 30% or so :
> Dilute L US fl oz US cups US pint US qt US gal of % alcohol Down
to
> % By adding L US fl oz US cups US pints US qt US gal Water
> When you distill this and make your cuts, (about 4.70 gallons of
> distillate), the cuts average about:
>
> 2-3% Foreshots
>
>
> 57 -60% Middle Run (Hearts)
>
> 22 - 25% Tails
>
> (For a total of 100%)
>
> By taking your cuts in around 250 mL increments (I use 12 - 500 ml
> mason jars for mine), you should, by tasting and mixing some heads,
the
> hearts and some tails, get about 75 - 80% of this.
>
> So that would be almost 2 gallons of around 60% (120 proof) [4.7
> gallons * .80 = 3.76 gallons @ 30% ABV / 2 = 1.88 gallons @ 60%
ABV]
> which is the suggested level for aging on oak...
>
> But its only 6:15 AM here and Ive been up since 3 making some new
Rum
> wash, so my math may be off... [:)] [:)] [:)]
>
> Vino es Veritas,
>
> Jim.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well I just finished my last strip run. I now have just under 3
> gallons of 47 ABV low wines all made from the corn flake and corn
> meal recipe.
>
> Here soon I will be getting my 8 liter barrel ready for the final
> product. If I could get someone to check out my calculations below
> and let me know if I screwed something up that would be great.
>
> BILL1BURP
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/post?
postID=XQNunaw_hPDXuB\
> P6RDisDQ8Vym5rVZ5eY6thGEF46LfI4F5SMaTCLYh-
BXv3YTDHtZmryktaojxiYHxcFS6tCE\
> >
> > I am getting prepared on filling a 8 liter barrel with corn
alcohol.
> >
> > On a spirit run my still without copper scrubbies will produce
> > 85 ABV starting and will finish at about 65 ABV before I hit tails
> >
> > These are my calculations.
> >
> > 11.3 liters of low wines at 45% ABV and if I go with the mid range
> > (65% thru 85%) and use 75% ABV as a final measurement then I
should
> > get about 6.4 liters of 75% ABV worth of whishey.
> >
> > Now taking
> > 6.4 liters at 75% ABV and adding 2.3 liters of water will get me
> > close to 55% ABV.
> >
> > 6.4 + 2.3 = 8.7 liters of 55% whiskey to add to barrel.
> >
> > Now I will let this sit for about 3 to 6 months. I will draw off
> 3.2
> > liters of whiskey and add back to the barrel the same amount in
> water
> > dropping my ABV to 40%
> >
> > This I will allow to set another 3 to 6 months.
> > Finished product I am hoping will produce a nice whisky with some
> > vanillins and a touch of sweet to it.
> >
> > Comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
> > Thanks
> >
> > BILL1BURP
>
• Hey Bill, Good question. There are 2 basic reasons for doing this. The first is for saftety reasons, due to the highly explosive properties of high ABV
Message 6 of 7 , Jul 1 9:21 AM

Hey Bill,

Good question.  There are 2 basic reasons for doing this.

The first is for saftety reasons, due to the highly explosive properties of high ABV alcohol fumes.  The second and main reason are to allow additional flavors to come through in making a whiskey.  I forgot to tell you to use backset (sour mash) instead of water for dilution and  to add to these flavors in my first posting.

The concept here, is that on the second (or third) distillation, you want to lower the ABV of the low wines so you wont get such a high ethanol percent on the spirits run.  This allows more of the grain flavors to come through in your final product.  To take this to extremes, if you used a reflux still and distilled up to azeotrophe (95.6%) ABV, you would get a neutral alcohol with NO flavors...

If you review Tony's Pot still purity chart,  at a 47% ABV level,  20 liters would give you something like this:

### Input your Pot still characteristics

Initial Volume of Wash L
Alcohol Content % by volume
Initial Temperature C
Power during Heat-up W
Power during Distillation W
%Internal Reflux %
Time-step for calculation min

### Results

Time to Heat up Still contents

 Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity

This would give you more alcohol and less flavors.  By diluting you low wines to 30% or so, it will give you a lower ABV and ability to make finer cuts, like this:

### Input your Pot still characteristics

Initial Volume of Wash L
Alcohol Content % by volume
Initial Temperature C
Power during Heat-up W
Power during Distillation W
%Internal Reflux %
Time-step for calculation min

### Results

Time to Heat up Still contents

 Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity

As you can see, the overall  ABV after 200 minutes is 64% , which is almost ideal for aging on oak.   Of course keep in mind, your going to doing your cuts to all this so it wont come out exact....

Harry and Sherman put together some excellent charts during a discussion we had on Whiskey making in Advanced Distillers.  This one gives you an idea of how diluting your low wines will give you a lower ABV in your final spirits run

Also review this discussion starting with http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41750  and read Harry' s Article on Dilution of Alcohol :

http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/

Hope this helps.

Vino es Veritas,

Jim.

>
> I want to thank both you Jim and also Harry for your answers. One
> final question about the spirit run. Forgive me if you have hit this
> topic in the past but, why would I delute the low wines with water? I
> have a pot still and am using propane for heat. I do not have to
> worry running it dry, or do I?
>
> The best for last
> BILL1BURP

• Thanks for the info Jim I did put aside 2 gallons of backset from my last strip run. So I do have something to dilute my low wines with. I do like the ability
Message 7 of 7 , Jul 2 5:52 AM
Thanks for the info Jim

I did put aside 2 gallons of backset from my last strip run. So I do
have something to dilute my low wines with. I do like the ability to
add more flavor to my low wines, never thought about using backset to
do it thou.

Thanks for the tip

The best for last
BILL1BURP

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
<jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> Good question. There are 2 basic reasons for doing this.
>
> The first is for saftety reasons, due to the highly explosive
properties
> of high ABV alcohol fumes. The second and main reason are to allow
> additional flavors to come through in making a whiskey. I forgot to
> tell you to use backset (sour mash) instead of water for dilution
and
> to add to these flavors in my first posting.
>
> The concept here, is that on the second (or third) distillation, you
> want to lower the ABV of the low wines so you wont get such a high
> ethanol percent on the spirits run. This allows more of the grain
> flavors to come through in your final product. To take this to
> extremes, if you used a reflux still and distilled up to azeotrophe
> (95.6%) ABV, you would get a neutral alcohol with NO flavors...
>
> If you review Tony's Pot still purity chart, at a 47% ABV level,
20
> liters would give you something like this:
>
>
> Input your Pot still characteristics
> Initial Volume of Wash L
> Alcohol Content % by volume
> Initial Temperature C
> Power during Heat-up W
> Power during Distillation W
> %Internal Reflux %
> Time-step for calculation min
>
> Results
> Time to Heat up Still contents
>
> Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity
>
> This would give you more alcohol and less flavors. By diluting you
low
> wines to 30% or so, it will give you a lower ABV and ability to make
> finer cuts, like this:
>
>
> Input your Pot still characteristics
> Initial Volume of Wash L
> Alcohol Content % by volume
> Initial Temperature C
> Power during Heat-up W
> Power during Distillation W
> %Internal Reflux %
> Time-step for calculation min
>
>
>
> Results
> Time to Heat up Still contents
>
>
>
> Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity
>
> As you can see, the overall ABV after 200 minutes is 64% , which is
> almost ideal for aging on oak. Of course keep in mind, your going
to
> doing your cuts to all this so it wont come out exact....
>
> Harry and Sherman put together some excellent charts during a
discussion
> we had on Whiskey making in Advanced Distillers. This one gives
you an
> idea of how diluting your low wines will give you a lower ABV in
your
> final spirits run
>
>
> Also review this discussion starting with
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41750
> Harry' s Article on Dilution of Alcohol :
>
> http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/
> <http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Diluting_the_still_charge/>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Vino es Veritas,
>
> Jim.
>
>
>
>
>