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Aging

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  • charlieltc
    Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification from the group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be filled to the top and then
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 2, 2008
      Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification from the
      group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be filled to
      the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
      understand the advice to fill the container to the top. I had
      understood that after distillation oxygen/air within reasonable limits
      would be beneficial to maturation. (See Harry new distillers msg
      27730). If aeration per 27730 is desirable, than it would appear that
      a fair to generous headspace within the aging container would be
      desirable rather than minimum to zero. Subsequent shaking of the
      container with lots of headspace would provide useful oxygen exposure.
      Agitation of the container with a generous headspace would serve to
      aerate the distillate similiar to Harry's bubbler. Since there would
      not be continuous introduction of air in an open environment as in the
      bubbler technique, I forsee no significant loss to the angels and
      therefore no disadvantage in the use of generous headspace except the
      ability of the distiller to handily shake the size container involved.
      Finally although there would be some desirable oxidation, it shouldn't
      lead to acidification/vinegar of the distilled spirit. Where am I
      going wrong with these conclusions?
    • Trid
      ... Nope, you re not going wrong. Headspace/air is just fine for aging. The process of vinegar conversion in fermented beverages is due to the acetobacter
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 2, 2008
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "charlieltc" <charlieltc@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification from the
        > group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be filled to
        > the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
        > understand the advice to fill the container to the top. I had
        > understood that after distillation oxygen/air within reasonable limits
        > would be beneficial to maturation. (See Harry new distillers msg
        > 27730). If aeration per 27730 is desirable, than it would appear that
        > a fair to generous headspace within the aging container would be
        > desirable rather than minimum to zero. Subsequent shaking of the
        > container with lots of headspace would provide useful oxygen exposure.
        > Agitation of the container with a generous headspace would serve to
        > aerate the distillate similiar to Harry's bubbler. Since there would
        > not be continuous introduction of air in an open environment as in the
        > bubbler technique, I forsee no significant loss to the angels and
        > therefore no disadvantage in the use of generous headspace except the
        > ability of the distiller to handily shake the size container involved.
        > Finally although there would be some desirable oxidation, it shouldn't
        > lead to acidification/vinegar of the distilled spirit. Where am I
        > going wrong with these conclusions?

        Nope, you're not going wrong. Headspace/air is just fine for aging.
        The process of vinegar conversion in fermented beverages is due to the
        acetobacter bacteria. In aging spirits, the alcohol concentration is
        well above any that the bacteria would be able to survive. No danger
        there at all. Evaporation and loss of your hard earned spirit is more
        of a concern. Thus, keeping a lid on the container. The angels get
        enough as it is :)

        Oxygen is but one component of the aging process. There's also
        interaction with the various congeners in the spirit with the various
        compounds in the wood upon which it's being aged. There's no one
        factor that affects it...mostly patience :)

        Trid
        -firing up a new batch is my answer to the patience thing...keeps me
        distracted.
      • KM Services
        Correction, I do fill to the top , but not literally to the brim ( should have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air space which allows for
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 2, 2008

          Correction, I do fill to the “top” , but not literally to the brim ( should have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air space which allows for shaking up and aerating …my apologies

          This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure...

          Cheers

          Ken Mc

           


          From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of charlieltc
          Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:23 a.m.
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [new_distillers] Aging

           

          Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification from the
          group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be filled to
          the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
          understand the advice to fill the container to the top.

        • castillo.alex2008
          1.) I read Harry´s message and it says do not use the air stone for avoiding some glue leaching to the batch; while I´ve seen others using it, any comments?
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 2, 2008
            1.) I read Harry´s message and it says do not use the air stone for
            avoiding some glue leaching to the batch; while I´ve seen others
            using it, any comments?

            2.) I use to top my lowwines (with baking soda) to the very top, will
            it matter?



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services"
            <km_services@...> wrote:
            >
            > Correction, I do fill to the "top" , but not literally to the brim
            ( should
            > have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air space
            which
            > allows for shaking up and aerating .my apologies
            >
            > This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am
            sure...
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > Ken Mc
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of charlieltc
            > Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:23 a.m.
            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging
            >
            >
            >
            > Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification from
            the
            > group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be
            filled to
            > the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
            > understand the advice to fill the container to the top.
            >
          • jamesonbeam1
            Morning Alex, If your talking about aerating your final product with an air stone, in an open container, I again believe this is giving the angels far more
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
              Morning Alex,

              If your talking about aerating your final product with an air stone,
              in an open container, I again believe this is giving the angels far
              more then the share they deserve :)... Way too much ABV will be lost
              to them. As Trid and others have said, its much better to keep some
              air space in a closed container with your wood chips and open it
              occasionally then close and shake. This will imitate the way a
              barrel "breathes" during the aging process. The other trick to speed
              up the aging process is keeping the container in a place where it gets
              warm during the day and cold at night.

              This will also mimic the way a barrel expands in the heat and
              contracts in the cold, thereby forcing the product into and out of
              the wood, but at a lesser extent and extracting more of the wood
              flavors.

              As far as your second question, I do not fully understand what you
              mean by adding baking soda to your low wines and topping off. I hope
              your not talking about aging low wines... Some distillers add baking
              soda or salt to low wines to get a purer spirit and increase the
              boiling point of water. But dont age your low wines.

              Vino es Veritas,
              Jim.



              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
              <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > 1.) I read Harry´s message and it says do not use the air stone for
              > avoiding some glue leaching to the batch; while I´ve seen others
              > using it, any comments?
              >
              > 2.) I use to top my lowwines (with baking soda) to the very top,
              will
              > it matter?
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services"
              > <km_services@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Correction, I do fill to the "top" , but not literally to the
              brim
              > ( should
              > > have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air space
              > which
              > > allows for shaking up and aerating .my apologies
              > >
              > > This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am
              > sure...
              > >
              > > Cheers
              > >
              > > Ken Mc
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
              > > On Behalf Of charlieltc
              > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:23 a.m.
              > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification from
              > the
              > > group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be
              > filled to
              > > the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
              > > understand the advice to fill the container to the top.
              > >
              >
            • KM Services
              Alex, I agree with Jim and keep my grog whether bottled, oaking or steeping on a shelves in the garage away from direct light which is against a concrete
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008

                Alex,

                I agree  with Jim and keep my grog whether bottled, oaking or steeping on a shelves in the garage away from direct light which is against a concrete block boundary wall where as he says gets the warmth of the day and cold of night and now as we are in winter overnight frosts

                This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure...

                Cheers

                Ken Mc

                 


                From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jamesonbeam1
                Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 7:48 p.m.
                To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [new_distillers] air pump for agin (before)Re: Aging

                 

                Morning Alex,

                If your talking about aerating your final product with an air stone,
                in an open container, I again believe this is giving the angels far
                more then the share they deserve :)... Way too much ABV will be lost
                to them. As Trid and others have said, its much better to keep some
                air space in a closed container with your wood chips and open it
                occasionally then close and shake. This will imitate the way a
                barrel "breathes" during the aging process. The other trick to speed
                up the aging process is keeping the container in a place where it gets
                warm during the day and cold at night.

                This will also mimic the way a barrel expands in the heat and
                contracts in the cold, thereby forcing the product into and out of
                the wood, but at a lesser extent and extracting more of the wood
                flavors.

                As far as your second question, I do not fully understand what you
                mean by adding baking soda to your low wines and topping off. I hope
                your not talking about aging low wines... Some distillers add baking
                soda or salt to low wines to get a purer spirit and increase the
                boiling point of water. But dont age your low wines.

                Vino es Veritas,
                Jim.

              • castillo.alex2008
                Ok. got the message, do not aerate using a pump for not loosing alcohol. I´ll follow your (Jim and Ken) advices. In the other hand, I read you could use a
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
                  Ok. got the message, do not aerate using a pump for not loosing
                  alcohol. I´ll follow your (Jim and Ken) advices. In the other hand, I
                  read you could use a cork on top of your (let´s say 1 gallon) jug,
                  resembling somehow a barrel in the issue of breathing, will it be ok?
                  Now that we´re on the topic I have two other questions:

                  a) How many times can you use an oak keg, are they forever, I mean,
                  you put some alcohol, let it age, let´s say a year, take the aged
                  spirit out and then what? feed the keg again with some new distill or
                  that keg is now useless and must be destroyed?

                  b) What do they do (industrially) in the case of white rum? since if
                  they put it in an oak keg the spirit will get the color of the wood.

                  Finally about the low wines I don´t age it, I add the baking soda for
                  getting rid of the off flavors (due to unwanted esters), store them
                  during a few days or a week and then distill, but top the bottle not
                  letting air in order to prevent eventual contamination with
                  acetobacter, but maybe this won´t be an issue, since my low wines are
                  about 65% ABV and I doubt that any organism could live in those
                  conditions.

                  Alex

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                  <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Morning Alex,
                  >
                  > If your talking about aerating your final product with an air
                  stone,
                  > in an open container, I again believe this is giving the angels far
                  > more then the share they deserve :)... Way too much ABV will be
                  lost
                  > to them. As Trid and others have said, its much better to keep some
                  > air space in a closed container with your wood chips and open it
                  > occasionally then close and shake. This will imitate the way a
                  > barrel "breathes" during the aging process. The other trick to speed
                  > up the aging process is keeping the container in a place where it
                  gets
                  > warm during the day and cold at night.
                  >
                  > This will also mimic the way a barrel expands in the heat and
                  > contracts in the cold, thereby forcing the product into and out of
                  > the wood, but at a lesser extent and extracting more of the wood
                  > flavors.
                  >
                  > As far as your second question, I do not fully understand what you
                  > mean by adding baking soda to your low wines and topping off. I
                  hope
                  > your not talking about aging low wines... Some distillers add
                  baking
                  > soda or salt to low wines to get a purer spirit and increase the
                  > boiling point of water. But dont age your low wines.
                  >
                  > Vino es Veritas,
                  > Jim.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                  > <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 1.) I read Harry´s message and it says do not use the air stone
                  for
                  > > avoiding some glue leaching to the batch; while I´ve seen others
                  > > using it, any comments?
                  > >
                  > > 2.) I use to top my lowwines (with baking soda) to the very top,
                  > will
                  > > it matter?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services"
                  > > <km_services@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Correction, I do fill to the "top" , but not literally to the
                  > brim
                  > > ( should
                  > > > have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air
                  space
                  > > which
                  > > > allows for shaking up and aerating .my apologies
                  > > >
                  > > > This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am
                  > > sure...
                  > > >
                  > > > Cheers
                  > > >
                  > > > Ken Mc
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > _____
                  > > >
                  > > > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                  > > > On Behalf Of charlieltc
                  > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:23 a.m.
                  > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification
                  from
                  > > the
                  > > > group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be
                  > > filled to
                  > > > the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
                  > > > understand the advice to fill the container to the top.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • mstehelin
                  Alex, I know that barrels go through a long cycle before they are finally sold to people for flower planters. From Bourbon,to sherry to scotch to the flower
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
                    Alex,
                    I know that barrels go through a long cycle before they are finally
                    sold to people for flower planters. From Bourbon,to sherry to scotch
                    to the flower pot. I think this process may take years, if not a
                    decade. As to your questions of baking soda, I think you only add a
                    couple of table spoons per 4 litres. I don't think you have to worry
                    about turning your low wines into vinegar, like you say, nothing can
                    live in that high ABV environment.
                    Cheers
                    M

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                    <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Ok. got the message, do not aerate using a pump for not loosing
                    > alcohol. I´ll follow your (Jim and Ken) advices. In the other hand, I
                    > read you could use a cork on top of your (let´s say 1 gallon) jug,
                    > resembling somehow a barrel in the issue of breathing, will it be ok?
                    > Now that we´re on the topic I have two other questions:
                    >
                    > a) How many times can you use an oak keg, are they forever, I mean,
                    > you put some alcohol, let it age, let´s say a year, take the aged
                    > spirit out and then what? feed the keg again with some new distill or
                    > that keg is now useless and must be destroyed?
                    >
                    > b) What do they do (industrially) in the case of white rum? since if
                    > they put it in an oak keg the spirit will get the color of the wood.
                    >
                    > Finally about the low wines I don´t age it, I add the baking soda for
                    > getting rid of the off flavors (due to unwanted esters), store them
                    > during a few days or a week and then distill, but top the bottle not
                    > letting air in order to prevent eventual contamination with
                    > acetobacter, but maybe this won´t be an issue, since my low wines are
                    > about 65% ABV and I doubt that any organism could live in those
                    > conditions.
                    >
                    > Alex
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                    > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Morning Alex,
                    > >
                    > > If your talking about aerating your final product with an air
                    > stone,
                    > > in an open container, I again believe this is giving the angels far
                    > > more then the share they deserve :)... Way too much ABV will be
                    > lost
                    > > to them. As Trid and others have said, its much better to keep some
                    > > air space in a closed container with your wood chips and open it
                    > > occasionally then close and shake. This will imitate the way a
                    > > barrel "breathes" during the aging process. The other trick to speed
                    > > up the aging process is keeping the container in a place where it
                    > gets
                    > > warm during the day and cold at night.
                    > >
                    > > This will also mimic the way a barrel expands in the heat and
                    > > contracts in the cold, thereby forcing the product into and out of
                    > > the wood, but at a lesser extent and extracting more of the wood
                    > > flavors.
                    > >
                    > > As far as your second question, I do not fully understand what you
                    > > mean by adding baking soda to your low wines and topping off. I
                    > hope
                    > > your not talking about aging low wines... Some distillers add
                    > baking
                    > > soda or salt to low wines to get a purer spirit and increase the
                    > > boiling point of water. But dont age your low wines.
                    > >
                    > > Vino es Veritas,
                    > > Jim.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                    > > <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 1.) I read Harry´s message and it says do not use the air stone
                    > for
                    > > > avoiding some glue leaching to the batch; while I´ve seen others
                    > > > using it, any comments?
                    > > >
                    > > > 2.) I use to top my lowwines (with baking soda) to the very top,
                    > > will
                    > > > it matter?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services"
                    > > > <km_services@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Correction, I do fill to the "top" , but not literally to the
                    > > brim
                    > > > ( should
                    > > > > have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air
                    > space
                    > > > which
                    > > > > allows for shaking up and aerating .my apologies
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am
                    > > > sure...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Cheers
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Ken Mc
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > _____
                    > > > >
                    > > > > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                    > > > > On Behalf Of charlieltc
                    > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:23 a.m.
                    > > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472, Clarification
                    > from
                    > > > the
                    > > > > group please. KM suggested that the aging container should be
                    > > > filled to
                    > > > > the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I don't
                    > > > > understand the advice to fill the container to the top.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • castillo.alex2008
                    Yep! That´s what I do, 1 tbsp. per liter of low wines, and that´s what I thought about that high ABV, so I will discard the possibility of low wines becoming
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
                      Yep! That´s what I do, 1 tbsp. per liter of low wines, and that´s
                      what I thought about that high ABV, so I will discard the possibility
                      of low wines becoming vinegar, but I was thinking why bothering going
                      to a spirits run, why just don´t make your cuts right in the
                      stripping run? my low wines are about 65% ABV every time which is not
                      that low for hooch since it´ll be further diluted to let´s say 40%.
                      How´s that?

                      Alex

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Alex,
                      > I know that barrels go through a long cycle before they are finally
                      > sold to people for flower planters. From Bourbon,to sherry to scotch
                      > to the flower pot. I think this process may take years, if not a
                      > decade. As to your questions of baking soda, I think you only add a
                      > couple of table spoons per 4 litres. I don't think you have to worry
                      > about turning your low wines into vinegar, like you say, nothing can
                      > live in that high ABV environment.
                      > Cheers
                      > M
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                      > <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Ok. got the message, do not aerate using a pump for not loosing
                      > > alcohol. I´ll follow your (Jim and Ken) advices. In the other
                      hand, I
                      > > read you could use a cork on top of your (let´s say 1 gallon)
                      jug,
                      > > resembling somehow a barrel in the issue of breathing, will it be
                      ok?
                      > > Now that we´re on the topic I have two other questions:
                      > >
                      > > a) How many times can you use an oak keg, are they forever, I
                      mean,
                      > > you put some alcohol, let it age, let´s say a year, take the aged
                      > > spirit out and then what? feed the keg again with some new
                      distill or
                      > > that keg is now useless and must be destroyed?
                      > >
                      > > b) What do they do (industrially) in the case of white rum? since
                      if
                      > > they put it in an oak keg the spirit will get the color of the
                      wood.
                      > >
                      > > Finally about the low wines I don´t age it, I add the baking soda
                      for
                      > > getting rid of the off flavors (due to unwanted esters), store
                      them
                      > > during a few days or a week and then distill, but top the bottle
                      not
                      > > letting air in order to prevent eventual contamination with
                      > > acetobacter, but maybe this won´t be an issue, since my low wines
                      are
                      > > about 65% ABV and I doubt that any organism could live in those
                      > > conditions.
                      > >
                      > > Alex
                      > >
                      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                      > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Morning Alex,
                      > > >
                      > > > If your talking about aerating your final product with an air
                      > > stone,
                      > > > in an open container, I again believe this is giving the angels
                      far
                      > > > more then the share they deserve :)... Way too much ABV will be
                      > > lost
                      > > > to them. As Trid and others have said, its much better to keep
                      some
                      > > > air space in a closed container with your wood chips and open it
                      > > > occasionally then close and shake. This will imitate the way a
                      > > > barrel "breathes" during the aging process. The other trick to
                      speed
                      > > > up the aging process is keeping the container in a place where
                      it
                      > > gets
                      > > > warm during the day and cold at night.
                      > > >
                      > > > This will also mimic the way a barrel expands in the heat and
                      > > > contracts in the cold, thereby forcing the product into and out
                      of
                      > > > the wood, but at a lesser extent and extracting more of the
                      wood
                      > > > flavors.
                      > > >
                      > > > As far as your second question, I do not fully understand what
                      you
                      > > > mean by adding baking soda to your low wines and topping off. I
                      > > hope
                      > > > your not talking about aging low wines... Some distillers add
                      > > baking
                      > > > soda or salt to low wines to get a purer spirit and increase
                      the
                      > > > boiling point of water. But dont age your low wines.
                      > > >
                      > > > Vino es Veritas,
                      > > > Jim.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                      > > > <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > 1.) I read Harry´s message and it says do not use the air
                      stone
                      > > for
                      > > > > avoiding some glue leaching to the batch; while I´ve seen
                      others
                      > > > > using it, any comments?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > 2.) I use to top my lowwines (with baking soda) to the very
                      top,
                      > > > will
                      > > > > it matter?
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services"
                      > > > > <km_services@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Correction, I do fill to the "top" , but not literally to
                      the
                      > > > brim
                      > > > > ( should
                      > > > > > have phrased that better) I leave about 30mm to 50mm of air
                      > > space
                      > > > > which
                      > > > > > allows for shaking up and aerating .my apologies
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I
                      am
                      > > > > sure...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Cheers
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Ken Mc
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > _____
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                      > > > > > On Behalf Of charlieltc
                      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:23 a.m.
                      > > > > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Subject: [new_distillers] Aging
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Re new distillers msg KM 29476 and Alex 29472,
                      Clarification
                      > > from
                      > > > > the
                      > > > > > group please. KM suggested that the aging container should
                      be
                      > > > > filled to
                      > > > > > the top and then opened, closed and shook periodically. I
                      don't
                      > > > > > understand the advice to fill the container to the top.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • jamesonbeam1
                      Hey Alex, American white oak barrels may be used many times for different uses. U.S. Bourbons and Tennessee Whiskeys by law are required to be aged in new oak
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008

                        Hey Alex,

                        American white oak barrels may be used many times for different uses. U.S.  Bourbons and Tennessee Whiskeys by law are required to be aged in new oak barrels (can only be used one time) for a minimum of 2 years (most all distillers age for 4 years or longer).  From there, the barrels are sold to distillers across the world, making Scotch, Irish Whiskey, Rum, Brandies, Wines, etc.   Its up to the individual distillers how many times they are re-used after that.

                        For us hobby distillers, depending on the quality and char of the barrel, you can use it until personal tastes and preferences say its "depleted".  However, it can be re-newed by adding  new charred oak chips to it, if flavors start to dimish.  If it ever starts leaking though, that might be a serious problem.

                        Regarding white, light rums, they are sometime aged ,sometimes not in used oak barrels, but not for a long time and sometimes  filtered to remove coloration.  See Below:

                        Grades

                        Example of dark, spiced, and light rums.
                        Example of dark, spiced, and light rums.

                        The grades and variations used to describe rum depend on the location that a rum was produced. Despite these variations the following terms are frequently used to describe various types of rum:

                        • Light Rums, also referred to as light, silver, and white rums. In general, light rum has very little flavor aside from a general sweetness, and serves accordingly as a base for cocktails. Light rums are sometimes filtered after aging to remove any color. The Brazilian immensely popular Cachaça belongs to this type.
                        • Gold Rums, also called amber rums, are medium-bodied rums which are generally aged. These gain their dark color from aging in wooden barrels (usually the charred white oak barrels that are the byproduct of Bourbon Whiskey).
                        • Spiced Rum: These rums obtain their flavor through addition of spices and, sometimes, caramel. Most are darker in color, and based on gold rums. Some are significantly darker, while many cheaper brands are made from inexpensive white rums and darkened with artificial caramel color.
                        • Dark Rum, also known as black rum, classes as a grade darker than gold rum. It is generally aged longer, in heavily charred barrels. Dark rum has a much stronger flavor than either light or gold rum, and hints of spices can be detected, along with a strong molasses or caramel overtone. It is used to provide substance in rum drinks, as well as color. In addition to uses in mixed drinks, dark rum is the type of rum most commonly used in cooking.
                        • Flavored Rum: Some manufacturers have begun to sell rums which they have infused with flavors of fruits such as mango, orange, citrus, coconut, and lime which is a lime rum found in Sweden. These serve to flavor similarly themed tropical drinks which generally comprise less than 40% alcohol, and are also often drunk neat or on the rocks.
                        • Overproof Rum is rum which is much higher than the standard 40% alcohol. Most of these rums bear greater than 75%, in fact, and preparations of 151 to 160 proof occur commonly.
                        • Premium Rum: As with other sipping spirits, such as Cognac and Scotch, a market exists for premium and super-premium rums. These are generally boutique brands which sell very aged and carefully produced rums. They have more character and flavor than their "mixing" counterparts, and are generally consumed without the addition of other ingredients.

                                     Vino es Veritas,

                                     Jim.

                         


                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008" <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Ok. got the message, do not aerate using a pump for not loosing
                        > alcohol. I´ll follow your (Jim and Ken) advices. In the other hand, I
                        > read you could use a cork on top of your (let´s say 1 gallon) jug,
                        > resembling somehow a barrel in the issue of breathing, will it be ok?
                        > Now that we´re on the topic I have two other questions:
                        >
                        > a) How many times can you use an oak keg, are they forever, I mean,
                        > you put some alcohol, let it age, let´s say a year, take the aged
                        > spirit out and then what? feed the keg again with some new distill or
                        > that keg is now useless and must be destroyed?
                        >
                        > b) What do they do (industrially) in the case of white rum? since if
                        > they put it in an oak keg the spirit will get the color of the wood.
                        >
                        > Finally about the low wines I don´t age it, I add the baking soda for
                        > getting rid of the off flavors (due to unwanted esters), store them
                        > during a few days or a week and then distill, but top the bottle not
                        > letting air in order to prevent eventual contamination with
                        > acetobacter, but maybe this won´t be an issue, since my low wines are
                        > about 65% ABV and I doubt that any organism could live in those
                        > conditions.
                        >
                        > Alex

                      • rye_junkie1
                        ... Alex, First run hooch is full of impurities and fussels. I have tried many ways of doing only a single run and honestly nothing beats the double distill.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 3, 2008
                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
                          <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Yep! That´s what I do, 1 tbsp. per liter of low wines, and that´s
                          > what I thought about that high ABV, so I will discard the possibility
                          > of low wines becoming vinegar, but I was thinking why bothering going
                          > to a spirits run, why just don´t make your cuts right in the
                          > stripping run? my low wines are about 65% ABV every time which is not
                          > that low for hooch since it´ll be further diluted to let´s say 40%.
                          > How´s that?
                          >
                          > Alex
                          >

                          Alex,
                          First run hooch is full of impurities and fussels. I have tried many
                          ways of doing only a single run and honestly nothing beats the double
                          distill. Except the triple distill. Some guys run once in a reflux
                          column and say they get good drink but i have also tried this a found
                          it is a loosing proposition. For me anyway. Remember, ABV doesnt
                          guarantee purity.

                          Mason
                          Live by the strip run
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