Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [new_distillers] Re: Recipe as simple as it gets

Expand Messages
  • KM Services
    _____ From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billy.turf Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 8:17 a.m. To:
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008

       

       

       


      From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of billy.turf
      Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 8:17 a.m.
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Recipe as simple as it gets



      I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was clean enough before distilling to use with essences even though it claims to finish at 24%
      Billy
      Mate, What you probably have seen is the marketing ( To get around the Law ) of the  turbo 23 for use without distilling ie: just using the low wines to make liqueurs where home distilling is Illegal.

      This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure...

      Cheers

      Ken Mc

       

    • rye_junkie1
      ... I have started to compare my Neutral to Store bought vodka. Even at 90% I am still getting some tastes and smells that let me know what the original wash
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billy.turf" <billy.turf@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mason,
        > I thought that if you ran the still right (slow and enough reflux) that
        > it would strip the flavor out of pretty much anything. What are you
        > getting for a taste? Did the wash have a bad taste before you started,
        > or did some trub get into the boiler?
        >
        > I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was clean
        > enough before distilling to use with essences even though it claims to
        > finish at 24%
        > Billy

        I have started to compare my Neutral to Store bought vodka. Even at
        90% I am still getting some tastes and smells that let me know what
        the original wash was. Normally my senses are about as sharp as a
        marble but more and more every day over the last few weeks they seem
        to be becoming more aware so to speak. What I get is an honest 90% at
        60F with the hydrometer. I always do a stripping run and then
        reflux/spirit run. Its still good spirit mind you but not perfection.
        I make a fairly generous heads cut and run at about 600-700ml/hour.
        The spirit is crystal clear and the smells and tastes that I am
        getting are definitely not tails. I let the column equalize for at
        least an hour under full reflux with the valve closed and the boiler
        is charged with at least 3 gallons of low wines at 40-50%.
        Ken, This is basically what i have been trying to bug you in private
        about.

        Mason
        Heading Home
        Catch up to you guys in a hour or so.
      • Harry
        ... reflux) that ... you ... started, ... clean ... claims to ... at ... perfection. ... 700ml/hour. ... private ... Mason, There are contaminants dissolved in
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billy.turf" <billy.turf@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Mason,
          > > I thought that if you ran the still right (slow and enough
          reflux) that
          > > it would strip the flavor out of pretty much anything. What are
          you
          > > getting for a taste? Did the wash have a bad taste before you
          started,
          > > or did some trub get into the boiler?
          > >
          > > I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was
          clean
          > > enough before distilling to use with essences even though it
          claims to
          > > finish at 24%
          > > Billy
          >
          > I have started to compare my Neutral to Store bought vodka. Even at
          > 90% I am still getting some tastes and smells that let me know what
          > the original wash was. Normally my senses are about as sharp as a
          > marble but more and more every day over the last few weeks they seem
          > to be becoming more aware so to speak. What I get is an honest 90%
          at
          > 60F with the hydrometer. I always do a stripping run and then
          > reflux/spirit run. Its still good spirit mind you but not
          perfection.
          > I make a fairly generous heads cut and run at about 600-
          700ml/hour.
          > The spirit is crystal clear and the smells and tastes that I am
          > getting are definitely not tails. I let the column equalize for at
          > least an hour under full reflux with the valve closed and the boiler
          > is charged with at least 3 gallons of low wines at 40-50%.
          > Ken, This is basically what i have been trying to bug you in
          private
          > about.
          >
          > Mason
          > Heading Home
          > Catch up to you guys in a hour or so.
          >


          Mason,

          There are contaminants dissolved in high-strength spirit (even in
          azeotrope ethanol, 95.6%). There are two ways to achieve good
          separation.

          1. Dilute the boiler charge to below 30% a/v. This allows any
          dissolved fusels to come out of solution. Fusels dissolve well in
          alcohol but not so well in water, so lower the charge percentage as a
          first step. Skim the top layer (oils float) and throw it in the
          feints receiver for recycling. Then use the rest of it as your
          charge for the reflux still (you can't make true neutral or vodka
          without refluxing).

          2. Polish your NEUTRAL spirit with carbon to remove any possible
          contaminants that may still be left (dissolved fusels, carbs, gases).

          DO NOT confuse NEUTRAL alcohol with AZEOTROPE. Read this thread
          starting with this message...
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/42630

          True vodka (US definition: no smell, no taste) is extremely hard to
          achieve. That's why commercial outfits have several rectifying
          columns to clean it up.


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
        • rye_junkie1
          What I get is an honest 90% ... Thanks for the advice Harry. Pint and I discussed shortly last week on the use of carbon and I have some decent 45% sitting on
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
            What I get is an honest 90%
            > at
            > > 60F with the hydrometer. I always do a stripping run and then
            > > reflux/spirit run. Its still good spirit mind you but not
            > perfection.
            > > I make a fairly generous heads cut and run at about 600-
            > 700ml/hour.
            > > The spirit is crystal clear and the smells and tastes that I am
            > > getting are definitely not tails. I let the column equalize for at
            > > least an hour under full reflux with the valve closed and the boiler
            > > is charged with at least 3 gallons of low wines at 40-50%.
            > > Ken, This is basically what i have been trying to bug you in
            > private
            > > about.
            > >
            > > Mason
            > > Heading Home
            > > Catch up to you guys in a hour or so.
            > >
            >
            >
            > Mason,
            >
            > There are contaminants dissolved in high-strength spirit (even in
            > azeotrope ethanol, 95.6%). There are two ways to achieve good
            > separation.
            >
            > 1. Dilute the boiler charge to below 30% a/v. This allows any
            > dissolved fusels to come out of solution. Fusels dissolve well in
            > alcohol but not so well in water, so lower the charge percentage as a
            > first step. Skim the top layer (oils float) and throw it in the
            > feints receiver for recycling. Then use the rest of it as your
            > charge for the reflux still (you can't make true neutral or vodka
            > without refluxing).
            >
            > 2. Polish your NEUTRAL spirit with carbon to remove any possible
            > contaminants that may still be left (dissolved fusels, carbs, gases).
            >
            > DO NOT confuse NEUTRAL alcohol with AZEOTROPE. Read this thread
            > starting with this message...
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/42630
            >
            > True vodka (US definition: no smell, no taste) is extremely hard to
            > achieve. That's why commercial outfits have several rectifying
            > columns to clean it up.
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            >

            Thanks for the advice Harry. Pint and I discussed shortly last week
            on the use of carbon and I have some decent 45% sitting on some now at
            1/4 cup/liter. I did not know about the first suggestion though. How
            long before you get an oil slick on top to skim. Is this reaction
            almost immediate or does it need to rest for a bit. "True Vodka" is
            not what I am trying to achieve really as I realize what you have
            pointed out. I am just sure that I can achieve better and more
            NEUTRAL than what I have thats all.

            Mason
            And here I was worried that I might finish the day
            without learning something new.
          • rye_junkie1
            ... I did not know about the first suggestion though. How ... Harry, You never got back to me about this. Mason
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 4, 2008
              > > Mason,
              > >
              > > There are contaminants dissolved in high-strength spirit (even in
              > > azeotrope ethanol, 95.6%). There are two ways to achieve good
              > > separation.
              > >
              > > 1. Dilute the boiler charge to below 30% a/v. This allows any
              > > dissolved fusels to come out of solution. Fusels dissolve well in
              > > alcohol but not so well in water, so lower the charge percentage as a
              > > first step. Skim the top layer (oils float) and throw it in the
              > > feints receiver for recycling. Then use the rest of it as your
              > > charge for the reflux still (you can't make true neutral or vodka
              > > without refluxing).

              > > Slainte!
              > > regards Harry
              > >
              >
              > Thanks for the advice Harry.
              I did not know about the first suggestion though. How
              > long before you get an oil slick on top to skim. Is this reaction
              > almost immediate or does it need to rest for a bit. "True Vodka" is
              > not what I am trying to achieve really as I realize what you have
              > pointed out. I am just sure that I can achieve better and more
              > NEUTRAL than what I have thats all.
              >
              > Mason

              Harry,
              You never got back to me about this.

              Mason
            • Harry
              ... ........Don t think that you have fusels automatically just because you have funky distillate. There are many reasons for off tastes and smells. You
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 4, 2008
                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > > >
                > >
                > > Thanks for the advice Harry.
                > I did not know about the first suggestion though. How
                > > long before you get an oil slick on top to skim. Is this reaction
                > > almost immediate or does it need to rest for a bit.


                ........Don't think that you have fusels automatically just because
                you have 'funky' distillate. There are many reasons for 'off' tastes
                and smells. You only get an oil slick if there's dissolved fusels,
                which are mostly the higher alcohols that don't dissolve well in
                water, but do in ethanol. It shows up on the surface of the still
                charge pretty quick after you dilute it under 30%. But you may not
                have dissolved fusels. You may instead have residual protein and
                dissolved gases, which obviously won't show up as a 'oil slick'. Or
                you may have all of the above.

                Again, dilution brings these out of solution because they are more
                capable of dissolving in ethanol than water. Fusels will float,
                gases will dissipate, solids (proteins) will settle out
                (precipitate). Both fusels and gases can be removed with carbon in a
                finished distillate. But not the proteins. They require filtering
                with a .5 micron or less filter.

                The proteins are a common cause of that fluffy white sediment you see
                in bottles left standing undisturbed for any length of time. The
                protein is not visible at high strength, but visible after diluting
                and bottling.

                "True Vodka" is
                > > not what I am trying to achieve really as I realize what you have
                > > pointed out. I am just sure that I can achieve better and more
                > > NEUTRAL than what I have thats all.

                .............. There is no 'quick & easy' cure-all. But if you
                attack each possible contaminant source, one by one, you will greatly
                improve your distillate.

                May I also suggest you read Kris Berglund's "Artisan Distilling" in
                my Library. There's a few remedies for distillate faults in there
                also, some of which have not been mentioned in these groups, probably
                because we're now getting into the advanced distilling area rather
                than just learning & doing the basics.


                HTH
                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.