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Re: Recipe as simple as it gets

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  • billy.turf
    Hi Mason, I thought that if you ran the still right (slow and enough reflux) that it would strip the flavor out of pretty much anything. What are you getting
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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      Hi Mason,
      I thought that if you ran the still right (slow and enough reflux) that
      it would strip the flavor out of pretty much anything. What are you
      getting for a taste? Did the wash have a bad taste before you started,
      or did some trub get into the boiler?

      I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was clean
      enough before distilling to use with essences even though it claims to
      finish at 24%
      Billy

      > >
      >
      > I just tried the Brewhaus turbo 48. 15 lbs of sugar, total volume
      > 6.5 gallons. Fermented down to 990 in 36hrs. Letting it clear now.
      > You are correct on the stirring and flare up. I only stirred it at
      > 990 and thought I was going to have to find a towel. Very clean smell
      > to the wash. I plan on doing 2 of these and refluxing the low wines
      > as you did. I am just not getting the Clean vodka flavor that I want
      > for essences by using some of the botched XX pot grain/cereal wash
      > ferments I have been using.
      >
      > Mason
      >
    • KM Services
      _____ From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billy.turf Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 8:17 a.m. To:
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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        From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of billy.turf
        Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 8:17 a.m.
        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Recipe as simple as it gets



        I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was clean enough before distilling to use with essences even though it claims to finish at 24%
        Billy
        Mate, What you probably have seen is the marketing ( To get around the Law ) of the  turbo 23 for use without distilling ie: just using the low wines to make liqueurs where home distilling is Illegal.

        This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure...

        Cheers

        Ken Mc

         

      • rye_junkie1
        ... I have started to compare my Neutral to Store bought vodka. Even at 90% I am still getting some tastes and smells that let me know what the original wash
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billy.turf" <billy.turf@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Mason,
          > I thought that if you ran the still right (slow and enough reflux) that
          > it would strip the flavor out of pretty much anything. What are you
          > getting for a taste? Did the wash have a bad taste before you started,
          > or did some trub get into the boiler?
          >
          > I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was clean
          > enough before distilling to use with essences even though it claims to
          > finish at 24%
          > Billy

          I have started to compare my Neutral to Store bought vodka. Even at
          90% I am still getting some tastes and smells that let me know what
          the original wash was. Normally my senses are about as sharp as a
          marble but more and more every day over the last few weeks they seem
          to be becoming more aware so to speak. What I get is an honest 90% at
          60F with the hydrometer. I always do a stripping run and then
          reflux/spirit run. Its still good spirit mind you but not perfection.
          I make a fairly generous heads cut and run at about 600-700ml/hour.
          The spirit is crystal clear and the smells and tastes that I am
          getting are definitely not tails. I let the column equalize for at
          least an hour under full reflux with the valve closed and the boiler
          is charged with at least 3 gallons of low wines at 40-50%.
          Ken, This is basically what i have been trying to bug you in private
          about.

          Mason
          Heading Home
          Catch up to you guys in a hour or so.
        • Harry
          ... reflux) that ... you ... started, ... clean ... claims to ... at ... perfection. ... 700ml/hour. ... private ... Mason, There are contaminants dissolved in
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "billy.turf" <billy.turf@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Mason,
            > > I thought that if you ran the still right (slow and enough
            reflux) that
            > > it would strip the flavor out of pretty much anything. What are
            you
            > > getting for a taste? Did the wash have a bad taste before you
            started,
            > > or did some trub get into the boiler?
            > >
            > > I saw some stuff just this evening on a site that claimed it was
            clean
            > > enough before distilling to use with essences even though it
            claims to
            > > finish at 24%
            > > Billy
            >
            > I have started to compare my Neutral to Store bought vodka. Even at
            > 90% I am still getting some tastes and smells that let me know what
            > the original wash was. Normally my senses are about as sharp as a
            > marble but more and more every day over the last few weeks they seem
            > to be becoming more aware so to speak. What I get is an honest 90%
            at
            > 60F with the hydrometer. I always do a stripping run and then
            > reflux/spirit run. Its still good spirit mind you but not
            perfection.
            > I make a fairly generous heads cut and run at about 600-
            700ml/hour.
            > The spirit is crystal clear and the smells and tastes that I am
            > getting are definitely not tails. I let the column equalize for at
            > least an hour under full reflux with the valve closed and the boiler
            > is charged with at least 3 gallons of low wines at 40-50%.
            > Ken, This is basically what i have been trying to bug you in
            private
            > about.
            >
            > Mason
            > Heading Home
            > Catch up to you guys in a hour or so.
            >


            Mason,

            There are contaminants dissolved in high-strength spirit (even in
            azeotrope ethanol, 95.6%). There are two ways to achieve good
            separation.

            1. Dilute the boiler charge to below 30% a/v. This allows any
            dissolved fusels to come out of solution. Fusels dissolve well in
            alcohol but not so well in water, so lower the charge percentage as a
            first step. Skim the top layer (oils float) and throw it in the
            feints receiver for recycling. Then use the rest of it as your
            charge for the reflux still (you can't make true neutral or vodka
            without refluxing).

            2. Polish your NEUTRAL spirit with carbon to remove any possible
            contaminants that may still be left (dissolved fusels, carbs, gases).

            DO NOT confuse NEUTRAL alcohol with AZEOTROPE. Read this thread
            starting with this message...
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/42630

            True vodka (US definition: no smell, no taste) is extremely hard to
            achieve. That's why commercial outfits have several rectifying
            columns to clean it up.


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • rye_junkie1
            What I get is an honest 90% ... Thanks for the advice Harry. Pint and I discussed shortly last week on the use of carbon and I have some decent 45% sitting on
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 2, 2008
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              What I get is an honest 90%
              > at
              > > 60F with the hydrometer. I always do a stripping run and then
              > > reflux/spirit run. Its still good spirit mind you but not
              > perfection.
              > > I make a fairly generous heads cut and run at about 600-
              > 700ml/hour.
              > > The spirit is crystal clear and the smells and tastes that I am
              > > getting are definitely not tails. I let the column equalize for at
              > > least an hour under full reflux with the valve closed and the boiler
              > > is charged with at least 3 gallons of low wines at 40-50%.
              > > Ken, This is basically what i have been trying to bug you in
              > private
              > > about.
              > >
              > > Mason
              > > Heading Home
              > > Catch up to you guys in a hour or so.
              > >
              >
              >
              > Mason,
              >
              > There are contaminants dissolved in high-strength spirit (even in
              > azeotrope ethanol, 95.6%). There are two ways to achieve good
              > separation.
              >
              > 1. Dilute the boiler charge to below 30% a/v. This allows any
              > dissolved fusels to come out of solution. Fusels dissolve well in
              > alcohol but not so well in water, so lower the charge percentage as a
              > first step. Skim the top layer (oils float) and throw it in the
              > feints receiver for recycling. Then use the rest of it as your
              > charge for the reflux still (you can't make true neutral or vodka
              > without refluxing).
              >
              > 2. Polish your NEUTRAL spirit with carbon to remove any possible
              > contaminants that may still be left (dissolved fusels, carbs, gases).
              >
              > DO NOT confuse NEUTRAL alcohol with AZEOTROPE. Read this thread
              > starting with this message...
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/42630
              >
              > True vodka (US definition: no smell, no taste) is extremely hard to
              > achieve. That's why commercial outfits have several rectifying
              > columns to clean it up.
              >
              >
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry
              >

              Thanks for the advice Harry. Pint and I discussed shortly last week
              on the use of carbon and I have some decent 45% sitting on some now at
              1/4 cup/liter. I did not know about the first suggestion though. How
              long before you get an oil slick on top to skim. Is this reaction
              almost immediate or does it need to rest for a bit. "True Vodka" is
              not what I am trying to achieve really as I realize what you have
              pointed out. I am just sure that I can achieve better and more
              NEUTRAL than what I have thats all.

              Mason
              And here I was worried that I might finish the day
              without learning something new.
            • rye_junkie1
              ... I did not know about the first suggestion though. How ... Harry, You never got back to me about this. Mason
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 4, 2008
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                > > Mason,
                > >
                > > There are contaminants dissolved in high-strength spirit (even in
                > > azeotrope ethanol, 95.6%). There are two ways to achieve good
                > > separation.
                > >
                > > 1. Dilute the boiler charge to below 30% a/v. This allows any
                > > dissolved fusels to come out of solution. Fusels dissolve well in
                > > alcohol but not so well in water, so lower the charge percentage as a
                > > first step. Skim the top layer (oils float) and throw it in the
                > > feints receiver for recycling. Then use the rest of it as your
                > > charge for the reflux still (you can't make true neutral or vodka
                > > without refluxing).

                > > Slainte!
                > > regards Harry
                > >
                >
                > Thanks for the advice Harry.
                I did not know about the first suggestion though. How
                > long before you get an oil slick on top to skim. Is this reaction
                > almost immediate or does it need to rest for a bit. "True Vodka" is
                > not what I am trying to achieve really as I realize what you have
                > pointed out. I am just sure that I can achieve better and more
                > NEUTRAL than what I have thats all.
                >
                > Mason

                Harry,
                You never got back to me about this.

                Mason
              • Harry
                ... ........Don t think that you have fusels automatically just because you have funky distillate. There are many reasons for off tastes and smells. You
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 4, 2008
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                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the advice Harry.
                  > I did not know about the first suggestion though. How
                  > > long before you get an oil slick on top to skim. Is this reaction
                  > > almost immediate or does it need to rest for a bit.


                  ........Don't think that you have fusels automatically just because
                  you have 'funky' distillate. There are many reasons for 'off' tastes
                  and smells. You only get an oil slick if there's dissolved fusels,
                  which are mostly the higher alcohols that don't dissolve well in
                  water, but do in ethanol. It shows up on the surface of the still
                  charge pretty quick after you dilute it under 30%. But you may not
                  have dissolved fusels. You may instead have residual protein and
                  dissolved gases, which obviously won't show up as a 'oil slick'. Or
                  you may have all of the above.

                  Again, dilution brings these out of solution because they are more
                  capable of dissolving in ethanol than water. Fusels will float,
                  gases will dissipate, solids (proteins) will settle out
                  (precipitate). Both fusels and gases can be removed with carbon in a
                  finished distillate. But not the proteins. They require filtering
                  with a .5 micron or less filter.

                  The proteins are a common cause of that fluffy white sediment you see
                  in bottles left standing undisturbed for any length of time. The
                  protein is not visible at high strength, but visible after diluting
                  and bottling.

                  "True Vodka" is
                  > > not what I am trying to achieve really as I realize what you have
                  > > pointed out. I am just sure that I can achieve better and more
                  > > NEUTRAL than what I have thats all.

                  .............. There is no 'quick & easy' cure-all. But if you
                  attack each possible contaminant source, one by one, you will greatly
                  improve your distillate.

                  May I also suggest you read Kris Berglund's "Artisan Distilling" in
                  my Library. There's a few remedies for distillate faults in there
                  also, some of which have not been mentioned in these groups, probably
                  because we're now getting into the advanced distilling area rather
                  than just learning & doing the basics.


                  HTH
                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
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