Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Tails

Expand Messages
  • smeng@kih.net
    In new distillers FAQ s you say to stop collecting when we see tails coming through. What indicators are there that tis is starting to occur?
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 26, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      In new distillers FAQ's you say to stop collecting when we see tails
      coming through. What indicators are there that tis is starting to
      occur?
    • Tony & Elle Ackland
      ... I ve posted the following from http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/dtw.htm#finish Tony. http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 26, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        >In new distillers FAQ's you say to stop collecting when we see tails
        >coming through. What indicators are there that tis is starting to
        >occur?

        I've posted the following from
        http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/dtw.htm#finish

        Tony.
        http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller

        *********************************************

        When to Finish
        The general rule is to finish distilling when the vapour temperature near
        the condensor is around 92-94 ? C.
        One clue that you've gone too far is if the distillate takes on a
        white/milky appearance. This is because the fusels (propyls, amyls &
        butyls) are partialy/totally insoluble with the higher %alcohols. You won't
        spot them if you keep your tails separate, as they are soluble within their
        own family in a weak ethanol solution. You may spot them though by seeing
        if a drop on the end of your finger gives a sun glint, and/or feels well
        lubricated (the old moonshiners trick). You may also see a slight
        film/slick on the surface of the distillate if using a clear container. If
        you can see them, then you can probably smell them too.
        Another indication that its time to finish is when the temperature begins
        to fluctuate a bit. Tarvus writes :
        ...with my Stillmaker type reflux still, I notice that the temperature
        holds steady until near the end of a cut. I should note that I use a
        digital thermometer that registers to the nearest 1/10th of a degree
        fahrenheit and refreshes itself every 10 seconds.
        For example, near the end of the time the foreshots are exhausted and the
        ethanol begins running, the temp will fluctuate dramatically after having
        held rock steady until then. The same seems to happen at the end of the
        ethanol run. When I see the temp starting to get squirrely, I stop the run.
        Maybe I leave a bit of usable ethanol in the wash, but it's worth knowing
        the stuff I collect is pure! :)
        Let the distillate drop cleanly into the recieving vessel, so that it
        splashes. This will help it lose any fusels that may be present. For the
        same reason, it is better that the distillate is still warm to the touch,
        not cold. Don't put the end of the tubing under the level of the liquid, as
        this will cause any fusels that are coming out as vapours to condense (and
        taint the flavour).
        Greed is a bad thing. This is what gets your mates saying that your spirits
        taste "off" (you stopped noticing a while back, but everyone else still
        comments). You are either trying to rush things (good distillate requires
        time & patience), or you're wringing the neck of the beast and taking the
        run too far. You can't get ALL the available alcohol out of the wash. The
        better your still (eg the more "theoretical plates" / smaller HETP it has)
        the better your chances, but you still run the risk of contaminating your
        clean spirit with the tails, and having it smell & taste bad. But heres a
        few things to try ..
        Segregate your distillate into 1L (or pint) bottles as you collect it. Work
        out which of them are OK, and which aren't; eg the first 2-3L might be
        fine, but you start noticing the tails in the last couple. Only keep the
        first ones for drinking, but put the other bottles aside. Either toss these
        in with the next wash as you go to distill it, or keep them from several
        runs, dilute 50/50 with water, and give them a run through the still on
        their own (see - you're not wasting it, just delaying when you get to keep
        it). This will allow you to really push the end of the run, as you won't be
        allowing it to contaminate your good drinking spirit (but don't get silly -
        stop when you can notice the fusels !).
        Get a better still (eg more packing, taller column, with greater reflux)
        The tails won't appear until quite late in the run (eg may only have to put
        the last 0.5L aside, not the last 2-3 L).
        Be patient - take the time & run the still with a higher reflux ratio
        (collect less, return more back down over the packing). Use more cooling
        water in the reflux condensor section.
        The still needs to run smoothly, with even temperatures. Stop it surging -
        the distillate should be coming out nice & steady - either a thin dribble
        or separate drops. Somethings wrong if its coming in spurts ; more even
        temperature control needed, keep the packing clean (back-flush it after
        every run), make sure the packing isn't too tight, have the right column
        size for the amount of power you're putting it (a real skinny column with
        heaps of vapour going up it), don't have cool breezes blowing on the
        outside of the column giving spot cooling (keep the column insulated)
        Take the time to polish neutral spirits well. Get a batch ahead of
        yourself, and always have one sitting on carbon, until you need to use it.
        A 20L wash (at 12%) should produce approx 3L of 75% ethanol via a basic
        reflux still, or 2.3L of 95% ethanol via a fractionating reflux still.
      • daddyman00126
        Hello folks I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar and corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my heads and
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello folks

          I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar and
          corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my
          heads and tails from all my batches. During my spirit runs I have
          been adding my heads from previous runs back into the batch and
          distilling normally, taking care of pulling my foreshots, heads
          before I start to collecting the heart. After the heart I collect the
          tails and set them aside.

          On my last sugar run I did the strip run that went normal like the
          rest I have done in the past. I collect the low wines in my second
          still and added water and about 400ml to 600ml of heads from previous
          batches.

          The first time I did my strip run I had a cold. I was unable to smell
          or taste my product during the run. So after a few days I got rid of
          my cold and was able to taste my product. My god it tasted like crap.
          FOOT in big bold black letters was all I could think of.

          I must have messed up during my strip run and got some tails into the
          batch so I just set it aside and waited until I had time to do the
          spirit run again.

          This weekend I did the spirit run again and this time I do not have a
          cold. I was able to get my still head up to about 177F where it set
          for about 4 hours. My drip into my collection jar was about 4 to 6
          drops per second. The column I have is a 2in by 2ft SS. I used copper
          scrubbers packed into the column to get a bit of reflux.

          During the run I collected about 300ml of heads because I had added
          about 400ml of heads to this run before I started. At about 183F I
          had collected about 1.75L of 180 ABV. The next 300ml started tasting
          like FOOT again so I started testing every 200ml so I could pin down
          where my tails were comming in on my distillate.

          I pull about 600ml at 70 ABV that was not bad tasting but could be
          carbon filtered and be ok for mixed beverage. The next 400ml smelled
          like the big FOOT again, I checked my temp and I am setting at 187F.

          I decided to pull until I hit 190F. Within 5 minutes I had achieved
          this and I shut down my still.

          Now for the questions.

          Why did I get the big bad FOOT so early in my distillate? Is it
          because I have reran and reran my heads thru so many spirit runs?

          Any answers will be welcome.

          The best for last
          BILL1BURP
        • Harry
          Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux still? Slainte! regards Harry
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux
            still?

            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • daddyman00126
            ... OOOPs Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still that I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5 gallon SS to
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or reflux
              > still?
              >
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry
              >

              OOOPs

              Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still that
              I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5 gallon
              SS to collect in.

              Bill1burp
            • Harry
              ... reflux ... that ... gallon ... Then that is partly the problem. No reflux. The riser section (column) of your second still (a potstill) is nowhere near
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Your description is unclear. Is your 2nd still a potstill or
                reflux
                > > still?
                > >
                > > Slainte!
                > > regards Harry
                > >
                >
                > OOOPs
                >
                > Both of my stills are pot stills. I have an 8 gallon SS pot still
                that
                > I can put a full 25 liters in and I use my second pot still 2.5
                gallon
                > SS to collect in.
                >
                > Bill1burp
                >


                Then that is partly the problem. No reflux. The riser section
                (column) of your second still (a potstill) is nowhere near big enough
                to give meaningful reflux.

                The huge 20 foot tall Scotch potstills get reflux due to the vast
                amount of surface area (riser or column) ABOVE the pot.

                Without some method of metering product output (a valve, as in reflux
                still designs) to allow total and/or partial refluxing in small
                stills, there is little or no reflux. Therein lies the fundamental
                difference between reflux stills & potstills for the hobbyist (small-
                scale) producer. If you want/need cleaner product, you need a better
                separator (still), or a better (few contaminants) starting
                wash/mash/fermentation in the first place.

                Purpose of reflux: To get better separation of ethanol from
                contaminants. No reflux = most contaminants stay in the booze.

                Purpose of copper mesh: twofold (depending on still design).

                1) In potstills, to remove sulfides from the process fluids;
                2) In REFLUX column, 1 above, AND to provide more surface area to
                perform process fluids contact (vapors & liquids).

                There is much to learn & consider when practicing spirits
                manufacture. But it's like riding a bike; it becomes automatic after
                a while. And it has pleasant rewards. :))


                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • castillo.alex2008
                Hi ddman In the mean time (while you get a bigger column for a bigger/better reflux) you may want to use some baking soda to get rid of the nasties (esters)
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi ddman

                  In the mean time (while you get a bigger column for a bigger/better
                  reflux) you may want to use some baking soda to get rid of the
                  nasties (esters) that are giving you a hard time. A few tbs per
                  stripped gallon is a begginning. Shake it well and let it be for a
                  day or two, then do your spirits run as usual.

                  Alex
                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                  <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello folks
                  >
                  > I have been doing this hobby for a while now. I have a few sugar
                  and
                  > corn runs under my belt. Since I started distilling I have saved my
                  > heads and tails from all my batches. During my spirit runs I have
                  > been adding my heads from previous runs back into the batch and
                  > distilling normally, taking care of pulling my foreshots, heads
                  > before I start to collecting the heart. After the heart I collect
                  the
                  > tails and set them aside.
                  >
                  > On my last sugar run I did the strip run that went normal like the
                  > rest I have done in the past. I collect the low wines in my second
                  > still and added water and about 400ml to 600ml of heads from
                  previous
                  > batches.
                  >
                  > The first time I did my strip run I had a cold. I was unable to
                  smell
                  > or taste my product during the run. So after a few days I got rid
                  of
                  > my cold and was able to taste my product. My god it tasted like
                  crap.
                  > FOOT in big bold black letters was all I could think of.
                  >
                  > I must have messed up during my strip run and got some tails into
                  the
                  > batch so I just set it aside and waited until I had time to do the
                  > spirit run again.
                  >
                  > This weekend I did the spirit run again and this time I do not have
                  a
                  > cold. I was able to get my still head up to about 177F where it set
                  > for about 4 hours. My drip into my collection jar was about 4 to 6
                  > drops per second. The column I have is a 2in by 2ft SS. I used
                  copper
                  > scrubbers packed into the column to get a bit of reflux.
                  >
                  > During the run I collected about 300ml of heads because I had added
                  > about 400ml of heads to this run before I started. At about 183F I
                  > had collected about 1.75L of 180 ABV. The next 300ml started
                  tasting
                  > like FOOT again so I started testing every 200ml so I could pin
                  down
                  > where my tails were comming in on my distillate.
                  >
                  > I pull about 600ml at 70 ABV that was not bad tasting but could be
                  > carbon filtered and be ok for mixed beverage. The next 400ml
                  smelled
                  > like the big FOOT again, I checked my temp and I am setting at 187F.
                  >
                  > I decided to pull until I hit 190F. Within 5 minutes I had achieved
                  > this and I shut down my still.
                  >
                  > Now for the questions.
                  >
                  > Why did I get the big bad FOOT so early in my distillate? Is it
                  > because I have reran and reran my heads thru so many spirit runs?
                  >
                  > Any answers will be welcome.
                  >
                  > The best for last
                  > BILL1BURP
                  >
                • daddyman00126
                  Thanks I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on what to do with the tails. I might try to age a pint or two on heavy oak just to see what it will do
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks

                    I want to thank everyone for their suggestions on what to do with the
                    tails. I might try to age a pint or two on heavy oak just to see what
                    it will do but most of it will go to killing the ant piles that persist
                    in my back yard.

                    Understanding that heads and tails are used to bring corn hooch to that
                    certain flavor before aging I now have a real taste of what tails can
                    do in moderation. I can now see that their is a place for heads and
                    tails in my future batches of corn whiskey that I will want to age on
                    some good oak.

                    I think that having some tails around left over from previous corn
                    batches and doing a taste test of the tails before I start my blending
                    process will give me a better idea of what I want out of the final
                    batch after oaking. Now I can see why master blenders are worth their
                    weight in gold.

                    I am cerious though, is there a set amount of tails that go into
                    finished spirit runs that the major distillers do. Like for every 25
                    gallons of corn hooch they would put in 1 gallon of tails???
                    What a good learning experence.

                    The best for last
                    BILL1BURP
                  • gerryruiz1701
                    Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to cut or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 1, 2014
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to "cut" or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?


                    • Douglas French
                      I cut heads and tails when I rerun tails . It Depends on the taste for me. Douglas French Caballeros, Inc./ Scorpion Mezcal sa de cv Oaxaca, Mexico Tel:
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 2, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I cut heads and tails when I rerun tails . It  Depends on the taste for me.
                         
                        Douglas French
                        Caballeros, Inc./ Scorpion Mezcal sa de cv
                        Oaxaca, Mexico
                        Tel: 52-951-516-0654
                        Destileria: 951-511-5701
                        Cel: 951 508 1030
                        www.scorpionmezcal.com
                        www.oaxacanstuff.com
                        Enviar factura o comprobante de pago a: scorpionfactura@...


                        From: "dfboss1@... [new_distillers]" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 9:48 PM
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Tails

                         
                        Just to be 100% sure. there is no need to "cut" or throw out anything when running a batch of just the tails from previous runs, Right?



                      • Zapata Vive
                        Agreed, go by taste.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 2, 2014
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Agreed, go by taste. 
                        • hopefull romantic
                          No save all your heads and tails till enough and run them again taking out heads and tails which and throw those out
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 3, 2014
                          • 0 Attachment

                            No save all your heads and tails till enough  and run them again taking out heads and tails which  and throw those out

                          • edbar44
                            Is it really worth the effort? I save my tails and add them to the next wash I plan to distill, works fine. Unless you are using a very small apparatus, it
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 4, 2014
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Is it really worth the effort? I save my tails and add them to the next wash I plan to distill, works fine. Unless you are using a very small apparatus, it would take a long time to get enough to distill on its own.
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.