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Re: [new_distillers] Use of Plastics

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  • John Vandermeulen
    Hello magpie, I do all my brewing in plastic buckets. From there on my reflux column is all copper, with s.s. scrubbies. I did have a plastic drain from
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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      Hello magpie,
      I do all my brewing in 'plastic' buckets. From there on my reflux column is
      all copper, with s.s. scrubbies. I did have a plastic drain from the
      condenser, a split length of flexible hose around the rim of the kettle to
      act as a seal, and a similar short length of tubing plus plenty of high temp.
      caulking between the lid of the kettle and the circular flange at the base of
      the column.
      I have since removed all plastic tubing (except for my water lines), and
      today plan to dissassemble the column/kettle lid to remove the plastic seal
      and the caulking. As I have a persistent 'synthetics' odor in the
      distillate, and even in the left-over water from the distilled sugar-wash.
      The only synthetic material that I trust absolutely is 'teflon' as it is
      super inert. I used sheets of the stuff to cut those small circular seals
      for inserting in the caps of chemical sample bottles. As I don't have any
      on hand now, I use the white synthetic material from pint-size supermarket
      yoghurt tubs.I have had no trouble with these, and figure that both US and
      Can. food inspection agencies have given that stuff their bureaucratic
      eagle-eye inspection. In fact, a lid from one of those tubs will go as a
      seal into the joint between kettle lid and base of column. I am too
      suspicious of caulking.
      Sorry to be so lengthy,
      Hope this helps,
      John V

      magpie2001au wrote:

      > Hi to all, my first post, notwithstanding I have been reading the
      > group for many months. I have completed my first "run"...the results
      > are pleasing to the taste and I can still "see" ?
      >
      > I am receiving conflicting advice regarding the use of "plastic"
      > utensils during the distilling process and would like clarification
      > from the experts.
      >
      > I have used 5 Litre glass jars to collect the product from the Still.
      > When reduced to the 40% mark I have had to use larger than 5 litre
      > containers and so place the product in a 15 litre "plastic"
      > pail\bucket. This "bucket" is white in colour and is stocked and sold
      > by the local brew shop. The 40% product is in this plastic bucket for
      > a few hours (maybe four) whilst it is processed through the filter
      > and
      > is then again collected to individual 5 litre glass jars.
      >
      > The second, and final point of conflict is the use of a small
      > lenght of "plastic" tube\pipe which is connected to the "outlet"
      > point
      > of the Still and terminates in the "neck" of the 5 litre glass jar. I
      > find it difficult to accept that this piece of "tube" (about 10
      > inches
      > long) is going to cause a "problem" to the product. However, I am
      > unsure about the use of the plastic bucket\pail.
      >
      > Advice and or comment on both points would be appreciated
      > please...Regards to all....\\
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • peter_vcb
      storing cold 40% in suitable plastic continers should be fine. ive seen 60% alcohol in plastic bottles at the airport. i have a gallon of 95% isopropanol which
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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        storing cold 40% in suitable plastic continers should be fine. ive
        seen 60% alcohol in plastic bottles at the airport. i have a gallon
        of 95% isopropanol which came in a HD PE container.
      • janpam ooms
        Hello All, It s good to see that most distillers dont use plastic in any way with their alcohol.I had a posting an this many months ago and was told to take my
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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          Hello All,
          It's good to see that most distillers dont use plastic in any way with their
          alcohol.I had a posting an this many months ago and was told to take my
          blinkers off and wake up as it is harmless.
          I cant remember the fool who wrote this. Anyhow, now it has come to light
          that even the bags in winecasks leach plastics into the plonk and we drink
          this stuff.
          Just have a look at the new plastic Z filter manufactured by who?, which is
          lauded as the ants pants.
          Anyone using this contraption continually will wake up to the health problem
          he or she might have in years to come.
          Just remember DDT how wonderful that was.
          Regards. JAN.


          >From: John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@...>
          >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          >To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Use of Plastics
          >Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:46:37 -0400
          >
          >Hello magpie,
          >I do all my brewing in 'plastic' buckets. From there on my reflux column
          >is
          >all copper, with s.s. scrubbies. I did have a plastic drain from the
          >condenser, a split length of flexible hose around the rim of the kettle to
          >act as a seal, and a similar short length of tubing plus plenty of high
          >temp.
          >caulking between the lid of the kettle and the circular flange at the base
          >of
          >the column.
          >I have since removed all plastic tubing (except for my water lines), and
          >today plan to dissassemble the column/kettle lid to remove the plastic seal
          >and the caulking. As I have a persistent 'synthetics' odor in the
          >distillate, and even in the left-over water from the distilled sugar-wash.
          >The only synthetic material that I trust absolutely is 'teflon' as it is
          >super inert. I used sheets of the stuff to cut those small circular seals
          >for inserting in the caps of chemical sample bottles. As I don't have any
          >on hand now, I use the white synthetic material from pint-size supermarket
          >yoghurt tubs.I have had no trouble with these, and figure that both US and
          >Can. food inspection agencies have given that stuff their bureaucratic
          >eagle-eye inspection. In fact, a lid from one of those tubs will go as a
          >seal into the joint between kettle lid and base of column. I am too
          >suspicious of caulking.
          >Sorry to be so lengthy,
          >Hope this helps,
          >John V
          >
          >magpie2001au wrote:
          >
          > > Hi to all, my first post, notwithstanding I have been reading the
          > > group for many months. I have completed my first "run"...the results
          > > are pleasing to the taste and I can still "see" ?
          > >
          > > I am receiving conflicting advice regarding the use of "plastic"
          > > utensils during the distilling process and would like clarification
          > > from the experts.
          > >
          > > I have used 5 Litre glass jars to collect the product from the Still.
          > > When reduced to the 40% mark I have had to use larger than 5 litre
          > > containers and so place the product in a 15 litre "plastic"
          > > pail\bucket. This "bucket" is white in colour and is stocked and sold
          > > by the local brew shop. The 40% product is in this plastic bucket for
          > > a few hours (maybe four) whilst it is processed through the filter
          > > and
          > > is then again collected to individual 5 litre glass jars.
          > >
          > > The second, and final point of conflict is the use of a small
          > > lenght of "plastic" tube\pipe which is connected to the "outlet"
          > > point
          > > of the Still and terminates in the "neck" of the 5 litre glass jar. I
          > > find it difficult to accept that this piece of "tube" (about 10
          > > inches
          > > long) is going to cause a "problem" to the product. However, I am
          > > unsure about the use of the plastic bucket\pail.
          > >
          > > Advice and or comment on both points would be appreciated
          > > please...Regards to all....\\
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >




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        • G&N
          I have used a two litre plastic beaker to collect my 90+ percent spirit for over 12 months now and the container is still just fine ...no doubt some plactics
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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            I have used a two litre plastic beaker to collect my 90+ percent spirit for
            over 12 months now and the container is still just fine ...no doubt some
            plactics would'nt be as good as others but i dont have a worry with it
            ...plastic is used everywhere nowadays ..........BUT

            Ethanol is a solvent..........we drink that

            Ethanol kills brain cells .....we drink that

            Ethanol is bad for our liver....we drink that

            Ethanol is a drug............we drink that

            Ethanol when we distill ...i bet we all sniff it to so see what the product
            is coming out like.

            If people are that worried about plastics they shouldnt drink this stuff
            anyway ...that is my opinion anyway



            Glenn













            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "John Vandermeulen" <vandermeulen@...>
            To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 11:46 PM
            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Use of Plastics


            > Hello magpie,
            > I do all my brewing in 'plastic' buckets. From there on my reflux column
            is
            > all copper, with s.s. scrubbies. I did have a plastic drain from the
            > condenser, a split length of flexible hose around the rim of the kettle to
            > act as a seal, and a similar short length of tubing plus plenty of high
            temp.
            > caulking between the lid of the kettle and the circular flange at the base
            of
            > the column.
            > I have since removed all plastic tubing (except for my water lines), and
            > today plan to dissassemble the column/kettle lid to remove the plastic
            seal
            > and the caulking. As I have a persistent 'synthetics' odor in the
            > distillate, and even in the left-over water from the distilled sugar-wash.
            > The only synthetic material that I trust absolutely is 'teflon' as it is
            > super inert. I used sheets of the stuff to cut those small circular seals
            > for inserting in the caps of chemical sample bottles. As I don't have
            any
            > on hand now, I use the white synthetic material from pint-size supermarket
            > yoghurt tubs.I have had no trouble with these, and figure that both US and
            > Can. food inspection agencies have given that stuff their bureaucratic
            > eagle-eye inspection. In fact, a lid from one of those tubs will go as a
            > seal into the joint between kettle lid and base of column. I am too
            > suspicious of caulking.
            > Sorry to be so lengthy,
            > Hope this helps,
            > John V
            >
            > magpie2001au wrote:
            >
            > > Hi to all, my first post, notwithstanding I have been reading the
            > > group for many months. I have completed my first "run"...the results
            > > are pleasing to the taste and I can still "see" ?
            > >
            > > I am receiving conflicting advice regarding the use of "plastic"
            > > utensils during the distilling process and would like clarification
            > > from the experts.
            > >
            > > I have used 5 Litre glass jars to collect the product from the Still.
            > > When reduced to the 40% mark I have had to use larger than 5 litre
            > > containers and so place the product in a 15 litre "plastic"
            > > pail\bucket. This "bucket" is white in colour and is stocked and sold
            > > by the local brew shop. The 40% product is in this plastic bucket for
            > > a few hours (maybe four) whilst it is processed through the filter
            > > and
            > > is then again collected to individual 5 litre glass jars.
            > >
            > > The second, and final point of conflict is the use of a small
            > > lenght of "plastic" tube\pipe which is connected to the "outlet"
            > > point
            > > of the Still and terminates in the "neck" of the 5 litre glass jar. I
            > > find it difficult to accept that this piece of "tube" (about 10
            > > inches
            > > long) is going to cause a "problem" to the product. However, I am
            > > unsure about the use of the plastic bucket\pail.
            > >
            > > Advice and or comment on both points would be appreciated
            > > please...Regards to all....\\
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • ups474@aol.com
            Yes, ethanol is a solvent that kills brain cells, but, due to laws of natural selection, it kills the weaker and slower brain cells first, this makes the brain
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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              Yes, ethanol is a solvent that kills brain cells, but, due to laws of natural
              selection, it kills the weaker and slower brain cells first, this makes the
              brain healthier and faster overall.
            • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
              ... That would explain all those genius you meet in the pub. They shure do seem to know a lot, particularly the more they ve had Tony
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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                > Yes, ethanol is a solvent that kills brain cells, but, due to
                > laws of natural
                > selection, it kills the weaker and slower brain cells first,
                > this makes the
                > brain healthier and faster overall.

                That would explain all those genius' you meet in the pub.
                They shure do seem to know a lot, particularly the more they've had

                Tony
              • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                For more info on the placticiers and their toxicity, see : http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/GDWQ/Chemicals/di2ethylhexyphtafull.htm ..It should be
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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                  For more info on the placticiers and their toxicity, see :

                  http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/GDWQ/Chemicals/di2ethylhexyphtafull.htm

                  "..It should be noted that some reported occurrences of DEHP in certain matrices have been found to result from contamination of the latter by plasticizer extracted from plastic tubing or other equipment..." and "..Consequently, the TDI is 25 µg/kg of body weight..."

                  Tony
                • Lynne
                  ... .. aka, the Buffalo Theory : http://www.primenet.com/~machado/adb/buffalo.htm Note in particular, the second part, Tony ;) Lynne
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 3, 2002
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                    At 07:25 PM 2/3/02 -0500, ups wrote:
                    >Yes, ethanol is a solvent that kills brain cells, but, due to laws of natural
                    >selection, it kills the weaker and slower brain cells first, this makes the
                    >brain healthier and faster overall.

                    .. aka, the Buffalo Theory : http://www.primenet.com/~machado/adb/buffalo.htm

                    Note in particular, the second part, Tony ;)

                    Lynne
                  • klcampbell
                    G day John,teflon is not totally inert in hot ethanol vapour or liquid,it does soften and go spongy but will return to normal as the ethanol evaporates.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 4, 2002
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                      G'day John,teflon is not totally inert in hot ethanol vapour or liquid,it
                      does soften and go spongy but will return to normal as the ethanol
                      evaporates.
                      Nitrile and silicone are both inert and silicone tubing is suitable for
                      extending the outlet from your condenser,Regards,Ken.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "John Vandermeulen" <vandermeulen@...>
                      To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, 4 February 2002 2:46
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Use of Plastics


                      > Hello magpie,
                      > I do all my brewing in 'plastic' buckets. From there on my reflux column
                      is
                      > all copper, with s.s. scrubbies. I did have a plastic drain from the
                      > condenser, a split length of flexible hose around the rim of the kettle to
                      > act as a seal, and a similar short length of tubing plus plenty of high
                      temp.
                      > caulking between the lid of the kettle and the circular flange at the base
                      of
                      > the column.
                      > I have since removed all plastic tubing (except for my water lines), and
                      > today plan to dissassemble the column/kettle lid to remove the plastic
                      seal
                      > and the caulking. As I have a persistent 'synthetics' odor in the
                      > distillate, and even in the left-over water from the distilled sugar-wash.
                      > The only synthetic material that I trust absolutely is 'teflon' as it is
                      > super inert. I used sheets of the stuff to cut those small circular seals
                      > for inserting in the caps of chemical sample bottles. As I don't have
                      any
                      > on hand now, I use the white synthetic material from pint-size supermarket
                      > yoghurt tubs.I have had no trouble with these, and figure that both US and
                      > Can. food inspection agencies have given that stuff their bureaucratic
                      > eagle-eye inspection. In fact, a lid from one of those tubs will go as a
                      > seal into the joint between kettle lid and base of column. I am too
                      > suspicious of caulking.
                      > Sorry to be so lengthy,
                      > Hope this helps,
                      > John V
                      >
                      > magpie2001au wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hi to all, my first post, notwithstanding I have been reading the
                      > > group for many months. I have completed my first "run"...the results
                      > > are pleasing to the taste and I can still "see" ?
                      > >
                      > > I am receiving conflicting advice regarding the use of "plastic"
                      > > utensils during the distilling process and would like clarification
                      > > from the experts.
                      > >
                      > > I have used 5 Litre glass jars to collect the product from the Still.
                      > > When reduced to the 40% mark I have had to use larger than 5 litre
                      > > containers and so place the product in a 15 litre "plastic"
                      > > pail\bucket. This "bucket" is white in colour and is stocked and sold
                      > > by the local brew shop. The 40% product is in this plastic bucket for
                      > > a few hours (maybe four) whilst it is processed through the filter
                      > > and
                      > > is then again collected to individual 5 litre glass jars.
                      > >
                      > > The second, and final point of conflict is the use of a small
                      > > lenght of "plastic" tube\pipe which is connected to the "outlet"
                      > > point
                      > > of the Still and terminates in the "neck" of the 5 litre glass jar. I
                      > > find it difficult to accept that this piece of "tube" (about 10
                      > > inches
                      > > long) is going to cause a "problem" to the product. However, I am
                      > > unsure about the use of the plastic bucket\pail.
                      > >
                      > > Advice and or comment on both points would be appreciated
                      > > please...Regards to all....\\
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • magpie2001au
                      Howdy. I posted the original question re: the use of Plastics a few days ago. I have read the resulting mail with much interest. There seems to be an even
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 4, 2002
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                        Howdy. I posted the original question re: the use of Plastics a few
                        days ago. I have read the resulting mail with much interest. There
                        seems to be an even divide of opinion.

                        I called into my local "brew" shop this morning and asked the staff
                        for their opinion on the subject. As might have been expected they say
                        providing the product\hose\tubing\utensil is of "FOOD" quality...there
                        will be no problem.

                        It is not my intention to cause argument, but rather to acknowledge
                        the various opinions which have been expressed. For my part I tend to
                        subscribe to that argument which say's...use glass and copper etc
                        whenever possable...and if I have to use plastic...then ensure it is
                        of Food quality. However, you may well ask....if I go into my Brew
                        shop and buy, say, a three litre measuring jug...how do I know it is
                        made of a Food quality material?...and so the circle continues.

                        Regards to all....\\
                      • Ian Macsween
                        Good point - I bought a plastic vial for measuring specific gravity of my wort from the local wine shop - it clouded up and crazed the first time I tried to
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 4, 2002
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                          Good point - I bought a plastic vial for measuring specific gravity of my
                          wort from the local wine shop - it clouded up and "crazed" the first time I
                          tried to measure the %APV from one of my "runs". So much for plastic!
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "magpie2001au" <mikeltee@...>
                          To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 5:19 PM
                          Subject: [new_distillers] Use of Plastics


                          > Howdy. I posted the original question re: the use of Plastics a few
                          > days ago. I have read the resulting mail with much interest. There
                          > seems to be an even divide of opinion.
                          >
                          > I called into my local "brew" shop this morning and asked the staff
                          > for their opinion on the subject. As might have been expected they say
                          > providing the product\hose\tubing\utensil is of "FOOD" quality...there
                          > will be no problem.
                          >
                          > It is not my intention to cause argument, but rather to acknowledge
                          > the various opinions which have been expressed. For my part I tend to
                          > subscribe to that argument which say's...use glass and copper etc
                          > whenever possable...and if I have to use plastic...then ensure it is
                          > of Food quality. However, you may well ask....if I go into my Brew
                          > shop and buy, say, a three litre measuring jug...how do I know it is
                          > made of a Food quality material?...and so the circle continues.
                          >
                          > Regards to all....\\
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • confederaterebel@aol.com
                          Might as well keep the pot stirred some. I used to work for a plumbing company. Every time i got cut on copper tubing they would tell me hope you didn t get
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 4, 2002
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                            Might as well keep the pot stirred some. I used to work for a plumbing
                            company. Every time i got cut on copper tubing they would tell me " hope you
                            didn't get too much copper in your blood stream you could get real sick if
                            you do". Now if plastic is bad why is copper not in a still. Both are bad at
                            high levels. All quality stills have copper, plastic, and rubber in its
                            construction. The only thing i can say is i've never heard of plastic
                            poisoning. I've drank more moonshine out of plastic milk jugs than i care to
                            remember.

                            Bill
                          • mattdistiller
                            ... http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/GDWQ/Chemicals/di2ethylhexy phtafull.htm ... Hi, Just to add my 2 cents worth - I don t and won t use plastics
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 4, 2002
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                              --- In new_distillers@y..., "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)"
                              <Tony.Ackland@c...> wrote:
                              > For more info on the placticiers and their toxicity, see :
                              >
                              http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/GDWQ/Chemicals/di2ethylhexy
                              phtafull.htm
                              >

                              Hi,

                              Just to add my 2 cents worth - I don't and won't use plastics with my
                              alcohol - thats just me. BUT - thats not to say that some plastics
                              are OK - I don't claim to know.

                              I have just scanned in a datasheet (from our lab) with info on
                              different plastics (resins) and how they react to chemicals. I have
                              only included the ethanol data - all up, the entire table is 6 pages
                              long!

                              You can find the sheet in the files area of this group:

                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/mattdistiller/ethan
                              olplasticdata.gif

                              It is fairly large (300k) but I scanned it so it would print out OK
                              on a normal printer.

                              I won't interpret all the data - but I will say by the looks of it,
                              there are some plastics which could be OK, and others that are a
                              definite no! That said, this is a laboratory guide, not necessarily
                              a guide for human consumption! So use the data at your own risk!

                              Matt
                            • peter_vcb
                              ... say ... quality...there ... did you tell them that 95% boiling ethanol vapours would be passing through the item? many years ago i made distilled some
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                > I called into my local "brew" shop this morning and asked the staff
                                > for their opinion on the subject. As might have been expected they
                                say
                                > providing the product\hose\tubing\utensil is of "FOOD"
                                quality...there
                                > will be no problem.

                                did you tell them that 95% boiling ethanol vapours would be passing
                                through the item?

                                many years ago i made distilled some alcohol it tasted like it came
                                out at about 30%. it was passed through a food grade tube from a
                                homebrew shop. when i added water to the alcohol it turned milky,
                                plastic precipitating out!

                                > subscribe to that argument which say's...use glass and copper etc
                                > whenever possable...and if I have to use plastic...then ensure it
                                is
                                > of Food quality. However, you may well ask....if I go into my Brew
                                > shop and buy, say, a three litre measuring jug...how do I know it
                                is
                                > made of a Food quality material?...and so the circle continues.

                                that is what i do. my still is mainly 316 stainless then copper then
                                glass. i use small amounts of food grade silicone tube to seal some
                                joints and i use food grade silicone sealant for my gasket on top of
                                my keg. i am not sure what the exact differences are between normal
                                silicone and food grade. i know the food grade sealant contains
                                fungicides in it (dont know if this is the only difference). if your
                                measuring jug is food grade they should be shouting about it. the
                                company i work in must use food grade plastics and we have trouble
                                finding them and can pay over twice the price for them. it might be
                                worthwhile looking up chemical supply companies posing as a student.
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