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Re: DAP

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Hey Mason, Done buddy. Vino es Veritas, Jim. ... the ... regarding
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 6, 2008
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      Hey Mason,

      Done buddy.

      Vino es Veritas,
      Jim.


      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Jim ,
      > could you post this info or copy me in private.?
      >
      > Mason
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
      > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks Jim got your message and will be going to the store for
      the
      > > special recipe for nutrients. Still laughing (Wally World)
      > >
      > > The best for last
      > > BILL1BURP
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
      > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hey Buddy,
      > > >
      > > > I send you an personal e-mail using my real name and addy
      regarding
      > > > this.
      > > >
      > > > But if you didn't get it, let me know and will re-post it here.
      > > >
      > > > Vino es Veritas,
      > > > Jim.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
      > > > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Is DAP still a good nutrient for whiskey mash?
      > > > >
      > > > > I bought this superferment and for 1 pound they want 10.85
      > > > > http://www.piwine.com/store/product.php?
      > > > productid=16217&cat=263&page=3
      > > > >
      > > > > Same location also had DAP and for 1 pound they want 5.75
      > > > > http://www.piwine.com/store/home.php?
      > > > > cat=263&sort=productcode&sort_direction=0&page=1
      > > > >
      > > > > So which would be better. Need to know witch rules, cost or
      > > quality?
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • just me
      would you mind emailing the ingrediant also. thanks just me The government is like a baby s alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 8, 2008
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        would you mind emailing the ingrediant also. thanks
         
        just me
        "The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other."
      • jamesonbeam1
        Re: DAP Hi Just, Its not that im keeping this recipe a secret, but it hasn t been fully tested yet, and is still(pun intended) in the experimental stage. Was
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 8, 2008
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          Re: DAP


          Hi Just,

          Its not that im keeping this recipe a secret, but it hasn't been
          fully tested yet, and is still(pun intended) in the experimental
          stage.

          Was going to have some of my friends try this(before posting) in
          reflux stills - just to make sure there is no problem with creating
          Schweitzer's reagent which causes blue alcohol/crystals in the
          packing or condenser from too much nitrogen or ammonia.

          I have done several fermentations of 16.5% to 17.5% in 6 - 8 gallon
          sugar washes and distilled in a pot still to 160% abv, with no bad
          tastes or problems.

          These have fermented out from an SG of around 1.115 to .099 in a
          period of 3.5 to 4 days in a 70F environment (does not include
          clearing). From what i have heard and read, this is as good, if not
          better then some Turbo yeast makers claim.

          But since so many people have been E-mailing me for the recipe in
          private, here it is - based on Victor's Econo-Wash and one Sherman
          (Pint 'O Shine) posted a while back, found at:
          http://homedistiller.org/wash-sugar.htm

          Victors' econ-o-wash
          Abstract:

          This paper describes the preparation of a sugar-based wash to produce
          alcohol for distillation. Ingredients have been specially selected so
          that they are readily available from your supermarket.

          Discussion:

          This wash is the product of much reading and experimentation. At the
          time of writing in excess of 720 litres of wash have been produced.
          The impetus for its creation was the desire to produce a product that
          was cheap, readily available, and did not rely on any proprietary
          ingredients.

          The ingredients may surprise some, and I offer this explanation:

          Yeast is basically a plant (ACTUALLY A PLANT FUNGUS - J.B.) For our
          interest there are three phases.
          a)Growth and reproduction (first 24 hours = AEROBIC STAGE - J.B.)
          b)Conversion of sugar to alcohol and carbon dioxide (ANEROBIC STAGE)
          c)Extinction (all sugar used up) (OR RE-USE AGAIN FOR NEXT WASH - J.B)

          For our yeast to do its job we must supply it with nutrients,
          vitamins, iron, protein.

          The complete plant food supplies the nitrogen, potassium,
          phosphorous; the multivitamin and mineral tablets supply B-group
          vitamins; the folic acid tablet supplies iron; 120 g of the yeast we
          kill by boiling to supply protein The sodium carbonate is used to
          adjust the pH of our wash to yeasts ideal 4•5.

          Victor's recipe:
          To make a total wash volume of 120 litres.

          -36 kg White sugar
          -1 kg Fresh bakers yeast
          -600 g Arthur Yates Gro-plus Complete plant food
          -100-200 g Sodium carbonate decahydrate
          -(Crystalline washing soda – commonly available as foot soaking salts)
          -2 tablets Blackmores Multi-vitamin and minerals
          -1 tablet Folic acid (for iron requirements)

          NOW MINE:

          After much experimentation - Jim's Recipe (for a 6 - 7 gallon wash):
          (note: this makes neutral alcohol - sour mash whiskey is another
          story)

          -15 pounds white cane suger

          - 1 box of Rice Krispies - off brand - proides solids, nutrients,
          folic acid (iron), vitamin B complex etc. (boil up with sugar)

          -5 Tablespoons of Expert Gardeners Plant food (24 - 8 - 16) Note:
          much higher in nitrogen and potassium then Arthur Yates. (Available
          at Wal-Mart for 3.95 per 1.5 lbs.) Provides Nitrogen, Phosphates and
          Potassium.

          -1 tablespoon of Epsom salt - Magnesium sulfate. (any brand)

          -2 tablets of any multi-vitamin. (i use One-a-Day).

          -3 cups of leftover trub from last fermentation (for lipids, acids
          and the Ghost yeast hulls) - or use 3 tablespoons of yeast nutrient.

          -2 fresh packets of Lalvin EC-1118 yeast or 1 gallon of Trub
          (leftover from last fermentation using EC-1118 yeast or similar - as
          long as its active - meaning still bubbling)

          Procedure:

          -Mix sugar in 2 gallons sour mash (or 2 tablespoons acid blend with 2
          gallons water) and boil for about 20 minutes to invert. (in a 3/4
          gallon pot - stir to keep from boiling over or burning).

          -Add Rice Krispies and old trub (or yeast nutrients) and mix till it
          turns to a mash - Let cool to about 30C.

          -Add this to primary fermenter along with EC-1118 yeast - activated
          first of course (or the fresh trub - 1 gallon).

          -boil up plant food, vitamins, epson salts in a cup and add.

          -fill with water to make up 6 - 7 gallons (over whats alreay in).

          Note: check the pH and make sure its around 5.4 - 5.8 or adjust.

          -Now take an aerator-like a pump and stone (I use a matress pump and
          plastic line) and aerate the hell out of it for 5 to 6 hours.

          -Cover with either a clean plastic garbage bag or cloth and STAND
          BACK.

          -Stir up cap every so ofter - lasts about 3 days.

          I would appreciate any feedback from ya'll regarding this recipe.

          Vino es Veritas,
          Jim.
        • Harry
          ... ... 2 ... Jim, I think you may have a bit too much fertilizer in it which may cause distilling problems (schweizers reagent). The object is to
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 8, 2008
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
            <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
            >
            <snip>
            > NOW MINE:
            >
            > After much experimentation - Jim's Recipe (for a 6 - 7 gallon wash):
            > (note: this makes neutral alcohol - sour mash whiskey is another
            > story)
            >
            > -15 pounds white cane suger
            >
            > - 1 box of Rice Krispies - off brand - proides solids, nutrients,
            > folic acid (iron), vitamin B complex etc. (boil up with sugar)
            >
            > -5 Tablespoons of Expert Gardeners Plant food (24 - 8 - 16) Note:
            > much higher in nitrogen and potassium then Arthur Yates. (Available
            > at Wal-Mart for 3.95 per 1.5 lbs.) Provides Nitrogen, Phosphates and
            > Potassium.
            >
            > -1 tablespoon of Epsom salt - Magnesium sulfate. (any brand)
            >
            > -2 tablets of any multi-vitamin. (i use One-a-Day).
            >
            > -3 cups of leftover trub from last fermentation (for lipids, acids
            > and the Ghost yeast hulls) - or use 3 tablespoons of yeast nutrient.
            >
            > -2 fresh packets of Lalvin EC-1118 yeast or 1 gallon of Trub
            > (leftover from last fermentation using EC-1118 yeast or similar - as
            > long as its active - meaning still bubbling)
            >
            > Procedure:
            >
            > -Mix sugar in 2 gallons sour mash (or 2 tablespoons acid blend with
            2
            > gallons water) and boil for about 20 minutes to invert. (in a 3/4
            > gallon pot - stir to keep from boiling over or burning).
            >
            > -Add Rice Krispies and old trub (or yeast nutrients) and mix till it
            > turns to a mash - Let cool to about 30C.
            >
            > -Add this to primary fermenter along with EC-1118 yeast - activated
            > first of course (or the fresh trub - 1 gallon).
            >
            > -boil up plant food, vitamins, epson salts in a cup and add.
            >
            > -fill with water to make up 6 - 7 gallons (over whats alreay in).
            >
            > Note: check the pH and make sure its around 5.4 - 5.8 or adjust.
            >
            > -Now take an aerator-like a pump and stone (I use a matress pump and
            > plastic line) and aerate the hell out of it for 5 to 6 hours.
            >
            > -Cover with either a clean plastic garbage bag or cloth and STAND
            > BACK.
            >
            > -Stir up cap every so ofter - lasts about 3 days.
            >
            > I would appreciate any feedback from ya'll regarding this recipe.
            >
            > Vino es Veritas,
            > Jim.
            >



            Jim,

            I think you may have a bit too much fertilizer in it which may cause
            distilling problems (schweizers reagent). The object is to supply
            just enough nitrogen that it will be all used when fermentation is
            complete, and not undershoot to cause a stuck ferment.

            Your recipe has similarities to one I did some time ago which I have
            had great results from. It bypasses the need for aeration and still
            finishes in three days. It does this by cutting the lag time to 20
            minutes as it doesn't require the yeast to be grown up. There's
            enough healthy yeast right there at pitching.

            Anyways, here 'tis for comparison. I call it Recipe #666 (for the
            number of the beast). :)
            ========================================


            Recipe #666: Bakers Yeast and Raw Sugar Mash


            Ingredients:

            12kg Raw Sugar (has trace molasses, light brown)

            280g in total of DYG (Dried Yeast Granules, Lowan Bakers yeast or
            similar, NOT Turbo types)

            140g Boiled DYG (1/2 the total Dried Yeast Granules, see note #1)

            50 g Vegemite (1 heaped ta/sp, any similar edible yeast-based
            extract, see note #2)

            40 g Magnesium Sulphate (1 heaped ta/sp Epsom Salts, see note #3)

            200 ml or 1 cup tomato paste (substitute tomato sauce, ketchup, any
            similar, see note #4)

            20 g complete plant food fertilizer (3 t/sp, see note #5)

            50 litres water

            140 g reconstituted DYG for innoculation aka pitching (1/2 the total,
            see above)

            Bicarbonate of Soda if required (see note #6)



            Method:

            Boil 140g DYG in 1 litre of water for 5 minutes. Use an egg-whisk to
            blend, much like making gravy.

            In a 60 litre capacity fermenter, put 10 litres of hot water, sugar,
            vegemite, epsom salts, tomato paste. Stir vigorously with a paddle
            until all the sugar is dissolved. Add the boiled yeast and mix it
            in. Add the remaining 40 litres of cool water (not cold, about
            20-25 degC). This should bring the wort to about 32 deg.C, just
            right for innoculation.

            Check the pH with a digital meter or litmus indicator paper. It
            should be in the 5 to 5.5 range. If it is lower (too acidic) add 2
            t/sp of Sodium Bicarbonate and stir in (see note #6). Record an OG
            (Original Gravity) reading with a hydrometer. Cover the fermenting
            vessel for now with a towel.

            To reconstitute the DYG yeast for pitching, use a 10 litre bucket and
            combine 1/2 litre of tepid water (40 deg.C), 140g DYG and 1/2 cup of
            your wort liquid (see note #7). Stir vigorously making sure all the
            yeast is dissolved. Cover and let stand for 20-30 minutes. It will
            have foamed up to 3/4 of the bucket after this time. Stir it up
            again to liquefy all the foam, then pitch it into your wort. Give
            the wort a stir to distribute the yeast. Cover the wort fermenter
            vessel with a towel for about 2 hours, then fit a lid and air-lock
            (see note #8).

            This fermentation should work off in as little as 3 days. When
            activity slows below 1 bubble every 10 seconds in the airlock, it is
            finished. Remove enough wash in a flask to take your FG reading
            (finishing Gravity). Cover it and shake carefully before you put the
            hydrometer in. This will de-gas the sample for correct reading. If
            there are any bubbles sticking to the hydrometer, remove them by
            spinning the instrument in the sample. Any measurement at or below
            1.000 is full attenuation to dryness. Above this mark means there
            is residual sugars left, which can cause later problems.

            Distillation of residual sugars can cause excessive foaming and foul
            the run (called 'puking' in pot still runs). In fractioning or
            reflux type stills it can cause foaming, packing and plate fouling
            (blockages) and a burnt taste throughout the distillate.

            Now take you recorded OG and FG readings and plug them into this
            equation:

            Potential Alcohol by Volume (ABV):

            (OG - FG) x 131 --> ABV
            ====================================================================


            Notes:

            #1. Boiling kills the yeast, bursts the cells and spills their
            contents (vitamins, minerals, lipids and other nutrients) into the
            broth. The product is a ready-made rich yeast food at a fraction of
            the cost of the commercial products. You can do similar by taking a
            cup or two of the spent yeast-cake from a previous fermentation and
            boiling it as indicated.

            #2. Edible yeast-based spreads e.g. vegemite, promite, marmite
            contain vitamins B1 or thiamine, B3 or niacin aka nicotinic acid, B9
            or folate , trace elements calcium, sodium, zinc (important for yeast
            cell division) and about 25% of its mass as protein, which gives
            the live yeast something to cling to in suspension during
            fermentation. The protein is also essential to the magnesium ions
            (see note#3). Overall, it's an augmentation of the nutrients
            available from the killed DYG.

            #3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that stimulate
            yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to manufacture
            enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and conversion
            process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell membrane in
            their existing form. They need available protein to combine with as
            a carrier. When available magnesium is limited, yeast shows markedly
            reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor, sluggish or stuck
            fermentations.

            #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and minerals
            (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It also
            contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
            mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake.

            #5. All plants need nitrogen for growth. Yeast is a plant. Any good
            NPK plantfood fertilizer will work (Nitrogen Phosphorus Potassium
            (K)). The all Purpose granulated types also have bonuses of Calcium,
            Magnesium and Zinc in good supply, which further ensures yeast has
            all the required growth and metabolism elements necessary. Limited
            nitrogen supply is a key factor in fermentations stopping short of
            completion (stuck ferment, or residual sugars which may burn in a
            distillation).

            #6. Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) is an alkaline buffer used to
            raise the pH of acidic worts. If you have used boiled yeast cake
            from a previous fermentation (see note #1), then the pH of the wort
            before fermentation may well be low, due to residual acids in the
            yeast cake. If this is the case, add 2 t/sp Bicarb to a 50 litre
            wort to bring the pH into the correct range (about pH5.5).

            #7. Warm water and diluted wort will condition the yeast on uptake to
            the Temperature and ingredient mix (in other words the environment)
            that the yeast will find when it is pitched into the wort. This
            eliminates the chance of shock which can delay or even kill
            fermentation.

            #8. Covering the fermenter loosely with a towel during the first 2
            hours allows the yeast cap to form and still get access to a little
            air for growth. This combined with the large initial yeast pitch
            reduces the lag phase to as short as 20 minutes. A feed of air or
            oxygen is not required and indeed that route can potentially cause
            problems by introducing contaminants such as bacteria). There is
            enough healthy yeast in the initial pitch that further cell division
            is not necessary, unlike in other recipes which use minimal yeast and
            oxygen to grow up the yeast. It may however be necessary to use a
            wort chiller or wet towels/fans or frozen water bottles to keep the
            wort temperature down below 32 deg.C during the first 24 hours.
            Whether temperature control is necessary is largely dependent on the
            ambient temperature where you are. In the tropics it is mandatory.




            H.Jackson 2006


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
            http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
          • jamesonbeam1
            Hi Harry, I took your advice and reduced the plant food amount to 3 tablespoons to start. This wash began a bit slower then the first 3 batches, using 4
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
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              Hi Harry,

              I took your advice and reduced the plant food amount to 3 tablespoons
              to start. This wash began a bit slower then the first 3 batches,
              using 4 tablespoons of the 24-8-16, but seems to be doing fine.

              Sorry, didnt respond sooner, but been kinda busy (dont you just love
              Saturday nights with a full moon :):). Also posted the original
              message with full contents (hope ya dont mind - was many posts ago,
              so people know whats going on).

              Anyway, would like to clarify some of the reasons why Im using my
              ingredients vs. what you suggested. These are from your "666" wash
              posted, and my following comments:

              "YOUR INGREDIENTS" / -MY COMMENTS:

              1. "12 kg Raw Sugar (has trace molasses, light brown)"
              -Raw sugar is about 3 times the price of cane sugar up here and ive
              cut the recipe in 1/2 to 25 or so liters. (using 15 lbs. cane for
              higher abv - also the Rice Kripsies contain sugars).

              2. "280g in total of DYG (Dried Yeast Granules, Lowan Bakers yeast or
              similar, NOT Turbo types)"
              -Since Im shooting for a higher abv (16.5% or so), Im using EC-1118
              trub from the last wash (approx. 1 gallon), instead of fresh bakers
              yeast.

              3. "140g Boiled DYG (1/2 the total Dried Yeast Granules, see note #1)"
              -same idea but using 3 cups of boiled trub from last fermentation for
              nutrients.

              4. "50 g Vegemite (1 heaped ta/sp, any similar edible yeast-based
              extract, see note #2)"
              -Since I live up North here, cannot find Vegemite, promite, marmite
              or other yeast spreads. This is why I substituted Rice Krispies and
              vitamin tablets for the reasons stated in Note 2.

              5. "40 g Magnesium Sulphate (1 heaped ta/sp Epsom Salts, see note #3)"
              -Agree, do exact same.

              6. "200 ml or 1 cup tomato paste (substitute tomato sauce, ketchup,
              any similar, see note #4)
              -I belive the Rice Krispies and vitamin tablets suppliment same
              nutrients per note 4.

              7. "20 g complete plant food fertilizer (3 t/sp, see note #5)"
              -Using 3 TSB. now of the 24-8-16 for NPK per note #5.

              8. "50 litres water"
              -Cut recipe to 22-25 liters (a bit more then 6 gallons).

              9. "140 g reconstituted DYG for innoculation aka pitching (1/2 the
              total, see above)"
              -Why im using a gallon of EC-1118 Trub (maybe a bit excess).

              10."Bicarbonate of Soda if required (see note #6)"
              -Using additional sour mash from still to adjust pH level, or the
              Bicarb if pH is too low.

              -I still recommend aerating for the first 5 - 6 hours though, since
              not sure how much of the original yeast population survived from
              previous wash (however, this does increase the lag time, but the
              increased population will decrease overall fermentation time).

              Please let me know if you see anything wrong (or anyone else reading
              this).

              Thanks Harry.

              Vino es Veritas,
              Jim.

              ________________________________________________________

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
              <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

              NOW MINE (version of the Econ-o-Wash and modified from some
              experiments and Sherman's recipe):

              After much experimentation - Jim's Recipe (for a 6 - 7 gallon wash):
              (note: this makes neutral alcohol - sour mash whiskey is another
              story)

              -15 pounds white cane suger (inverted)

              - 1 box of Rice Krispies - off brand - proides solids, nutrients,
              folic acid (iron), vitamin B complex etc. (boil up with sugar)

              -5 Tablespoons of Expert Gardeners Plant food (24 - 8 - 16) Note:
              much higher in nitrogen and potassium then Arthur Yates. (Available
              at Wal-Mart for 3.95 per 1.5 lbs.) Provides Nitrogen, Phosphates and
              Potassium.

              -1 tablespoon of Epsom salt - Magnesium sulfate. (any brand)

              -2 tablets of any multi-vitamin. (i use One-a-Day).

              -3 cups of leftover trub from last fermentation - boiled (for
              lipids, acids and the Ghost yeast hulls) - or use 3 tablespoons of
              yeast nutrient.

              -2 fresh packets of Lalvin EC-1118 yeast or 1 gallon of Trub
              (leftover from last fermentation using EC-1118 yeast or similar - as
              long as its active - meaning still bubbling)

              Procedure:

              -Mix sugar in 2 gallons sour mash (or 2 tablespoons acid blend with
              2 gallons water) and boil for about 20 minutes to invert. (in a 3-4
              gallon pot - stir to keep from boiling over or burning).

              -Add Rice Krispies and old trub (or yeast nutrients) and mix till it
              turns to a mash - Let cool to about 30C.

              -Add this to primary fermenter along with EC-1118 yeast - activated
              first of course (or the fresh trub - 1 gallon).

              -boil up plant food, vitamins, epson salts in a cup and add.

              -fill with water to make up 6 - 7 gallons (over whats alreay in).

              Note: check the pH and make sure its around 5.4 - 5.8 or adjust.

              -Now take an aerator-like a pump and stone (I use a matress pump and
              plastic line) and aerate the hell out of it for 5 to 6 hours.

              -Cover with either a clean plastic garbage bag or cloth and STAND
              BACK.

              -Stir up cap every so ofter - lasts about 3 days.

              I would appreciate any feedback from ya'll regarding this recipe.

              Vino es Veritas,
              Jim.
              _________________________________________________________________

              <--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Harry wrote:>

              Jim,

              I think you may have a bit too much fertilizer in it which may cause
              distilling problems (schweizers reagent). The object is to supply
              just enough nitrogen that it will be all used when fermentation is
              complete, and not undershoot to cause a stuck ferment.

              Your recipe has similarities to one I did some time ago which I have
              had great results from. It bypasses the need for aeration and still
              finishes in three days. It does this by cutting the lag time to 20
              minutes as it doesn't require the yeast to be grown up. There's
              enough healthy yeast right there at pitching.

              Anyways, here 'tis for comparison. I call it Recipe #666 (for the
              number of the beast). :)
              ========================================


              Recipe #666: Bakers Yeast and Raw Sugar Mash


              Ingredients:

              12kg Raw Sugar (has trace molasses, light brown)

              280g in total of DYG (Dried Yeast Granules, Lowan Bakers yeast or
              similar, NOT Turbo types)

              140g Boiled DYG (1/2 the total Dried Yeast Granules, see note #1)

              50 g Vegemite (1 heaped ta/sp, any similar edible yeast-based
              extract, see note #2)

              40 g Magnesium Sulphate (1 heaped ta/sp Epsom Salts, see note #3)

              200 ml or 1 cup tomato paste (substitute tomato sauce, ketchup, any
              similar, see note #4)

              20 g complete plant food fertilizer (3 t/sp, see note #5)

              50 litres water

              140 g reconstituted DYG for innoculation aka pitching (1/2 the total,
              see above)

              Bicarbonate of Soda if required (see note #6)



              Method:

              Boil 140g DYG in 1 litre of water for 5 minutes. Use an egg-whisk to
              blend, much like making gravy.

              In a 60 litre capacity fermenter, put 10 litres of hot water, sugar,
              vegemite, epsom salts, tomato paste. Stir vigorously with a paddle
              until all the sugar is dissolved. Add the boiled yeast and mix it
              in. Add the remaining 40 litres of cool water (not cold, about
              20-25 degC). This should bring the wort to about 32 deg.C, just
              right for innoculation.

              Check the pH with a digital meter or litmus indicator paper. It
              should be in the 5 to 5.5 range. If it is lower (too acidic) add 2
              t/sp of Sodium Bicarbonate and stir in (see note #6). Record an OG
              (Original Gravity) reading with a hydrometer. Cover the fermenting
              vessel for now with a towel.

              To reconstitute the DYG yeast for pitching, use a 10 litre bucket and
              combine 1/2 litre of tepid water (40 deg.C), 140g DYG and 1/2 cup of
              your wort liquid (see note #7). Stir vigorously making sure all the
              yeast is dissolved. Cover and let stand for 20-30 minutes. It will
              have foamed up to 3/4 of the bucket after this time. Stir it up
              again to liquefy all the foam, then pitch it into your wort. Give
              the wort a stir to distribute the yeast. Cover the wort fermenter
              vessel with a towel for about 2 hours, then fit a lid and air-lock
              (see note #8).

              This fermentation should work off in as little as 3 days. When
              activity slows below 1 bubble every 10 seconds in the airlock, it is
              finished. Remove enough wash in a flask to take your FG reading
              (finishing Gravity). Cover it and shake carefully before you put the
              hydrometer in. This will de-gas the sample for correct reading. If
              there are any bubbles sticking to the hydrometer, remove them by
              spinning the instrument in the sample. Any measurement at or below
              1.000 is full attenuation to dryness. Above this mark means there
              is residual sugars left, which can cause later problems.

              Distillation of residual sugars can cause excessive foaming and foul
              the run (called 'puking' in pot still runs). In fractioning or
              reflux type stills it can cause foaming, packing and plate fouling
              (blockages) and a burnt taste throughout the distillate.

              Now take you recorded OG and FG readings and plug them into this
              equation:

              Potential Alcohol by Volume (ABV):

              (OG - FG) x 131 --> ABV
              ====================================================================


              Notes:

              #1. Boiling kills the yeast, bursts the cells and spills their
              contents (vitamins, minerals, lipids and other nutrients) into the
              broth. The product is a ready-made rich yeast food at a fraction of
              the cost of the commercial products. You can do similar by taking a
              cup or two of the spent yeast-cake from a previous fermentation and
              boiling it as indicated.

              #2. Edible yeast-based spreads e.g. vegemite, promite, marmite
              contain vitamins B1 or thiamine, B3 or niacin aka nicotinic acid, B9
              or folate , trace elements calcium, sodium, zinc (important for yeast
              cell division) and about 25% of its mass as protein, which gives
              the live yeast something to cling to in suspension during
              fermentation. The protein is also essential to the magnesium ions
              (see note#3). Overall, it's an augmentation of the nutrients
              available from the killed DYG.

              #3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that stimulate
              yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to manufacture
              enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and conversion
              process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell membrane in
              their existing form. They need available protein to combine with as
              a carrier. When available magnesium is limited, yeast shows markedly
              reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor, sluggish or stuck
              fermentations.

              #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and minerals
              (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It also
              contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
              mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake.

              #5. All plants need nitrogen for growth. Yeast is a plant. Any good
              NPK plantfood fertilizer will work (Nitrogen Phosphorus Potassium
              (K)). The all Purpose granulated types also have bonuses of Calcium,
              Magnesium and Zinc in good supply, which further ensures yeast has
              all the required growth and metabolism elements necessary. Limited
              nitrogen supply is a key factor in fermentations stopping short of
              completion (stuck ferment, or residual sugars which may burn in a
              distillation).

              #6. Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) is an alkaline buffer used to
              raise the pH of acidic worts. If you have used boiled yeast cake
              from a previous fermentation (see note #1), then the pH of the wort
              before fermentation may well be low, due to residual acids in the
              yeast cake. If this is the case, add 2 t/sp Bicarb to a 50 litre
              wort to bring the pH into the correct range (about pH5.5).

              #7. Warm water and diluted wort will condition the yeast on uptake to
              the Temperature and ingredient mix (in other words the environment)
              that the yeast will find when it is pitched into the wort. This
              eliminates the chance of shock which can delay or even kill
              fermentation.

              #8. Covering the fermenter loosely with a towel during the first 2
              hours allows the yeast cap to form and still get access to a little
              air for growth. This combined with the large initial yeast pitch
              reduces the lag phase to as short as 20 minutes. A feed of air or
              oxygen is not required and indeed that route can potentially cause
              problems by introducing contaminants such as bacteria). There is
              enough healthy yeast in the initial pitch that further cell division
              is not necessary, unlike in other recipes which use minimal yeast and
              oxygen to grow up the yeast. It may however be necessary to use a
              wort chiller or wet towels/fans or frozen water bottles to keep the
              wort temperature down below 32 deg.C during the first 24 hours.
              Whether temperature control is necessary is largely dependent on the
              ambient temperature where you are. In the tropics it is mandatory.




              H.Jackson 2006


              Slainte!
              regards Harry
              http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
            • Harry
              ... tablespoons ... ........You can get the same result by adding a good cup of molasses to your 15 lbs. white cane sugar. Raw sugar these days is not like
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Harry,
                >
                > I took your advice and reduced the plant food amount to 3
                tablespoons
                > to start. This wash began a bit slower then the first 3 batches,
                > using 4 tablespoons of the 24-8-16, but seems to be doing fine.
                >
                > Sorry, didnt respond sooner, but been kinda busy (dont you just love
                > Saturday nights with a full moon :):). Also posted the original
                > message with full contents (hope ya dont mind - was many posts ago,
                > so people know whats going on).
                >
                > Anyway, would like to clarify some of the reasons why Im using my
                > ingredients vs. what you suggested. These are from your "666" wash
                > posted, and my following comments:
                >
                > "YOUR INGREDIENTS" / -MY COMMENTS:
                >
                > 1. "12 kg Raw Sugar (has trace molasses, light brown)"
                > -Raw sugar is about 3 times the price of cane sugar up here and ive
                > cut the recipe in 1/2 to 25 or so liters. (using 15 lbs. cane for
                > higher abv - also the Rice Kripsies contain sugars).
                >

                ........You can get the same result by adding a good cup of molasses
                to your 15 lbs. white cane sugar. Raw sugar these days is not like
                the old days. Sugar refineries find it easier to bleach the lot into
                white sugar, then add back a measured amount of molasses to make the
                raw sugar for market. Sounds silly I know, but it's a fact.


                > 2. "280g in total of DYG (Dried Yeast Granules, Lowan Bakers yeast
                or
                > similar, NOT Turbo types)"
                > -Since Im shooting for a higher abv (16.5% or so), Im using EC-1118
                > trub from the last wash (approx. 1 gallon), instead of fresh bakers
                > yeast.


                ......Well that's fine, JB. But it's probably the reason why your
                mash didn't fire like mine does in 20 minutes. Fresh healthy prime
                yeast will always kick in quicker than 2nd or 3rd or subsequent
                generation adult yeasts. Has to do with mutations and viability, and
                in reused yeasts the issue of sexual reproducing vs asexual budding.
                Use your Maltese Falcons ref. to see about this, or there's a few
                other good online sources. One I recommend is Tony's
                http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm
                Go down to the section on reusing yeast.


                > 3. "140g Boiled DYG (1/2 the total Dried Yeast Granules, see note
                #1)"
                > -same idea but using 3 cups of boiled trub from last fermentation
                for
                > nutrients.

                Yep. That'll work also. The only thing to watch out for there (if
                you're using trub several generations old) is the possible
                accumulation of yeast metabolism byproducts which new killed yeasts
                don't contain. You may finish up with flavours you didn't expect.
                You may also get something quite desirable. Only experimentation and
                KEEPING NOTES for repeatability will guide you.

                >
                > 4. "50 g Vegemite (1 heaped ta/sp, any similar edible yeast-based
                > extract, see note #2)"
                > -Since I live up North here, cannot find Vegemite, promite, marmite
                > or other yeast spreads. This is why I substituted Rice Krispies and
                > vitamin tablets for the reasons stated in Note 2.


                ...........You don't really need it if you're using boiled trub (as
                long as it's not too old, like 10 or 12 generations). Check out
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/24313
                for what's in commercial vegemite & why boiled yeast is just as good
                (or better).



                > 5. "40 g Magnesium Sulphate (1 heaped ta/sp Epsom Salts, see note
                #3)"
                > -Agree, do exact same.
                >
                > 6. "200 ml or 1 cup tomato paste (substitute tomato sauce, ketchup,
                > any similar, see note #4)
                > -I belive the Rice Krispies and vitamin tablets suppliment same
                > nutrients per note 4.


                ..............Yes, but is there enough protein in your mash for
                magnesium uptake by the yeast?


                >
                > 7. "20 g complete plant food fertilizer (3 t/sp, see note #5)"
                > -Using 3 TSB. now of the 24-8-16 for NPK per note #5.


                .........I use 3 teaspoons. It seems to be enough for the type of
                yeast I'm feeding. Your EC-1118, the killer strain may need more.



                >
                > 8. "50 litres water"
                > -Cut recipe to 22-25 liters (a bit more then 6 gallons).
                >
                > 9. "140 g reconstituted DYG for innoculation aka pitching (1/2 the
                > total, see above)"
                > -Why im using a gallon of EC-1118 Trub (maybe a bit excess).
                >
                > 10."Bicarbonate of Soda if required (see note #6)"
                > -Using additional sour mash from still to adjust pH level, or the
                > Bicarb if pH is too low.


                ......Nothing wrong with that. Commercials use sulphuric or
                hydrochloric acid, or backset. The important thing is to get the pH
                right by measurement.


                >
                > -I still recommend aerating for the first 5 - 6 hours though, since
                > not sure how much of the original yeast population survived from
                > previous wash (however, this does increase the lag time, but the
                > increased population will decrease overall fermentation time).



                ..........I think that's why I don't have this issue, because of the
                large charge of new pitching yeast I use. Your trub may not have
                many viable cells, but you can be sure that what you do have
                surviving will be hardy critters. Either way the end result seems to
                be ok.

                >
                > Please let me know if you see anything wrong (or anyone else reading
                > this).
                >
                > Thanks Harry.
                >
                > Vino es Veritas,
                > Jim.
                >


                You're welcome, Jim.

                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • jamesonbeam1
                Thanks again Harry - digesting all your comments right now... Only problem I have - if I tried to use 280g of fresh EC-1118 for every batch of wash, with 5
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
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                  Thanks again Harry - digesting all your comments right now...

                  Only problem I have - if I tried to use 280g of fresh EC-1118 for
                  every batch of wash, with 5 gram packets costing .85 cents each;

                  Would have to re-finance this friggin house, just to support my
                  addiction ROTF... (Thinking of switchin to nose candy (j/J).

                  Vino es Veritas,
                  Jim.

                  And, BTW Harry, And to All....

                  ERIN GO BRAUGH and HAPPY ST. PATTIES DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!

                  To my friends, I lift a glass: "May ye troubles be as few and far
                  betwix as ye Grandma's Teeth in the upcomming year."




                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
                  wrote:

                  > 2. "280g in total of DYG (Dried Yeast Granules, Lowan Bakers yeast
                  > or similar, NOT Turbo types)"
                  > -Since Im shooting for a higher abv (16.5% or so), Im using EC-1118
                  trub from the last wash (approx. 1 gallon), instead of fresh bakers
                  yeast.

                  >
                  > ......Well that's fine, JB. But it's probably the reason why your
                  > mash didn't fire like mine does in 20 minutes. Fresh healthy prime
                  > yeast will always kick in quicker than 2nd or 3rd or subsequent
                  > generation adult yeasts. Has to do with mutations and viability,
                  and in reused yeasts the issue of sexual reproducing vs asexual
                  budding.
                  > Use your Maltese Falcons ref. to see about this, or there's a few
                  > other good online sources. One I recommend is Tony's
                  > http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm
                  > Go down to the section on reusing yeast.

                  _snip__
                • jamesonbeam1
                  And to my enemies, I lift a glass: Here s to you and here s to me, and if by chance we disagree, Then screw off to you and here;s to Me.! ERIN GO BRAUGH and
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    And to my enemies, I lift a glass: "Here's to you and here's to me, and
                    if by chance we disagree, Then screw off to you and here;s to Me.!"

                    ERIN GO BRAUGH and HAPPY ST. PATTIES DAY !!!

                    Vino es Veritas,
                    Jim.

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                    <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                    > And, BTW Harry, And to All....
                    >
                    > ERIN GO BRAUGH and HAPPY ST. PATTIES DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!
                    >
                    > To my friends, I lift a glass: "May ye troubles be as few and far
                    > betwix as ye Grandma's Teeth in the upcomming year."
                  • burrows206
                    Hi Jim, I use those little packets that you re on about and if you aren t in a hurry they will multiply and grow in your ferment if you stage feed your sugar.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
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                      Hi Jim,
                      I use those little packets that you're on about and if you
                      aren't in a hurry they will multiply and grow in your ferment if you
                      stage feed your sugar. I think what Harry is on about is the fresh
                      yeast that commercial bakers use. I see them in "E.leclerc" one of
                      the main supermarkets chains here in France, they sell it like in
                      small ¼ pound (or about 110grams) blocks about a 2.00 euros or
                      approx. $2.00. (the French word "levure" is yeast in English).
                      Your best bet is go to your local commercial bread maker
                      factory/business or homemade pizza bar and talk nicely to the owner
                      or manager. And they will cut a good size wedge of live active yeast
                      off for you enough to last you some time. As to how it's how to
                      store it I think Harry is your man in this respect his family is/was
                      into the baker/bread making profession if memory serve me right.
                      Hence I think his great, great, grand dad's interest in yeast related
                      crafts i.e. distilling and making a good rum.
                      From what Harry once said in a posting a good while back, was that
                      when a good rising bread was made, a chunk of the dough was routinely
                      held back to make another batch the next day and so on and the bakers
                      reputation would flourish if it was a good batch. Now watch Harry
                      slap my waist for misquoting him
                      God I love this hobby you go out into the local community and meet
                      such a diverse cross section of people in pursuit of a good brew
                      Geoff

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                      <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks again Harry - digesting all your comments right now...
                      >
                      > Only problem I have - if I tried to use 280g of fresh EC-1118 for
                      > every batch of wash, with 5 gram packets costing .85 cents each;
                      >
                      > Would have to re-finance this friggin house, just to support my
                      > addiction ROTF... (Thinking of switchin to nose candy (j/J).
                      >
                      > Vino es Veritas,
                      > Jim.
                      >
                      > And, BTW Harry, And to All....
                      >
                      > ERIN GO BRAUGH and HAPPY ST. PATTIES DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!
                      >
                      > To my friends, I lift a glass: "May ye troubles be as few and far
                      > betwix as ye Grandma's Teeth in the upcomming year."
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > 2. "280g in total of DYG (Dried Yeast Granules, Lowan Bakers
                      yeast
                      > > or similar, NOT Turbo types)"
                      > > -Since Im shooting for a higher abv (16.5% or so), Im using EC-
                      1118
                      > trub from the last wash (approx. 1 gallon), instead of fresh bakers
                      > yeast.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > ......Well that's fine, JB. But it's probably the reason why
                      your
                      > > mash didn't fire like mine does in 20 minutes. Fresh healthy
                      prime
                      > > yeast will always kick in quicker than 2nd or 3rd or subsequent
                      > > generation adult yeasts. Has to do with mutations and viability,
                      > and in reused yeasts the issue of sexual reproducing vs asexual
                      > budding.
                      > > Use your Maltese Falcons ref. to see about this, or there's a few
                      > > other good online sources. One I recommend is Tony's
                      > > http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm
                      > > Go down to the section on reusing yeast.
                      >
                      > _snip__
                      >
                    • jamesonbeam1
                      Hi Geoff, Thanks for the information. After reading yours and Harry s recommendations, Im going to start re-havesting the EC-1118 - but not in my
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
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                        Hi Geoff,

                        Thanks for the information. After reading yours and Harry's
                        recommendations, Im going to start re-havesting the EC-1118 - but not
                        in my fermentations.

                        There's a way to regenerate new yeast using a method of growing it in
                        seperate containers - one for fermenting and one for the "mother"
                        culture in you refrigerator. I was re-reading Dr. MB Raines
                        discussion on yeast propagation, and think im going to go with this
                        method:

                        Liquid Media. This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and
                        has also been referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast
                        culturing. The best media for this method is wort or wort-containing
                        media. Yeast is inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until
                        it reaches the stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then
                        stored in the refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means
                        don't keep it on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one
                        to use for brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to
                        build the 10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it
                        into 12 oz. bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also
                        works fine. If stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to
                        6 months and then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched
                        master stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after
                        growth in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2
                        years. In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
                        nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
                        yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
                        non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
                        suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
                        Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
                        From:
                        http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php

                        I think will work, rather then trying the algar methods mentioned.

                        What do you think?

                        Vino es Vertas, and Happy St. Patties Day.
                        Jim.


                        Hi Jim,
                        I use those little packets that you're on about and if you
                        aren't in a hurry they will multiply and grow in your ferment if you
                        stage feed your sugar. I think what Harry is on about is the fresh
                        yeast that commercial bakers use. I see them in "E.leclerc" one of
                        the main supermarkets chains here in France, they sell it like in
                        small ¼ pound (or about 110grams) blocks about a 2.00 euros or
                        approx. $2.00. (the French word "levure" is yeast in English).
                        Your best bet is go to your local commercial bread maker
                        factory/business or homemade pizza bar and talk nicely to the owner
                        or manager. And they will cut a good size wedge of live active yeast
                        off for you enough to last you some time. As to how it's how to
                        store it I think Harry is your man in this respect his family is/was
                        into the baker/bread making profession if memory serve me right.
                        Hence I think his great, great, grand dad's interest in yeast related
                        crafts i.e. distilling and making a good rum.
                        From what Harry once said in a posting a good while back, was that
                        when a good rising bread was made, a chunk of the dough was routinely
                        held back to make another batch the next day and so on and the bakers
                        reputation would flourish if it was a good batch. Now watch Harry
                        slap my waist for misquoting him
                        God I love this hobby you go out into the local community and meet
                        such a diverse cross section of people in pursuit of a good brew
                        Geoff
                      • jamesonbeam1
                        Hey Geoff again, Being a bread maker (another side-hobby) myself, I know exactly what Harry is talking about. This is called the sour dough method and have
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 17, 2008
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                          Hey Geoff again,

                          Being a bread maker (another side-hobby) myself, I know exactly what
                          Harry is talking about. This is called the "sour dough" method and
                          have used it many times. True sour dough though, is make from wild
                          yeast that has infected the dough by leaving it out - but this works as
                          well.

                          Closer to my heart, is the relationship of this process to our sour
                          mash Bourbon and Tennessee whiskey's - of which i run a great deal of -
                          and is also similar to rum making.

                          They all use the similar concept of re-processing infected mash and
                          sour mash (or dunder in rum making) / trub to re-generate a new mash.

                          Happy St. Patties' Day,
                          Jim.

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206"
                          <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Jim,
                          __snip__

                          > From what Harry once said in a posting a good while back, was that
                          > when a good rising bread was made, a chunk of the dough was routinely
                          > held back to make another batch the next day and so on and the bakers
                          > reputation would flourish if it was a good batch. Now watch Harry
                          > slap my waist for misquoting him
                          > God I love this hobby you go out into the local community and meet
                          > such a diverse cross section of people in pursuit of a good brew
                          > Geoff
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