Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Building an Air Heat Exchange Condenser

Expand Messages
  • Harry
    ... , chevisn7 ... My ... of ... ¼ ... Interesting concept, Chuck. Can you draw diagrams? Post em
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008
    • 0 Attachment

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chevisn7" <chevisn7@...> wrote:

      >
      > Blueflame asked a question about an Air Heat Exchanger.
      > I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a subject
      > rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
      > brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic (This
      > has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
      > rather than Chemistry)
      > Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
      > dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
      > referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
      >
      > To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over heat
      > distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight air
      > separation between each of the plates.
      >
      > For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water condenser
      > with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
      >
      > Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall. My
      > first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
      > inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
      > needed.  Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
      > gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles.  The larger the
      > better.
      >
      > Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at the
      > edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at least
      > a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center of
      > the ring.  This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
      > through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
      > one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
      > vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion.  Drill one or two ¼
      > inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
      > the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the column
      > on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to solder
      > each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
      >
      > On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with the
      > air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
      > The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
      > circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
      > pattern.  Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
      > Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
      > drilled. 
      >
      > The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
      > Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
      > like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both examples of
      > Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
      > greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
      > vapor column.
      >
      > As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little. As
      > it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it condenses
      > back into a liquid.  Be sure the fins are as thin as possible. Thick
      > fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and therefore
      > it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
      >
      > Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
      > long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
      > larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you are
      > only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that should
      > not be a major problem. 
      >
      > The process should work relatively well.  Many application use it but
      > most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
      > temperature.   Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I can
      > give you another example that should also work but the efficiency may
      > not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
      > build.  Wont know until someone trys it. 
      > Chuck
      >

       

      Interesting concept, Chuck.  Can you draw diagrams?  Post 'em to the [photos] section.

      My experience with designing heat exchangers says that air is a poor transfer fluid, unless it is stirred up with a fan of some sort.  Same thing applies with water in a coil.  It does diddly squat unless the coolant fluid is moving.

      Sherman has a design that consists of a coil of copper pipe with a fan to force the air around it.  Simple yet effective.  See below...

      Slainte!
      regards Harry
      http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/

    • chevisn7
      Hi Harry The design you show in your picture is the same concept as a house AC condenser. It would be much more efficient if it had air cooling fins to
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Harry
        The design you show in your picture is the same concept as a house AC
        condenser. It would be much more efficient if it had air cooling fins
        to disipate the heat. In its present design it is using surface
        conductivity which is very inefficient. But you are right it is a
        simple yet effective concept as long as you have good air flow and
        you are not trying to dissipate a lot of heat.

        You are also correct. Forced air flow will drastically improve the
        dissipation of heat. I would still recommend a fan blowing on any
        type of air flow condenser or heat exchanger. The efficiency would be
        greatly improved. But I think one could be designed that did not
        need forced air flow.

        I will do some doodling and see if I can post some type of diagram to
        show the concept.
        Chuck

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> , "chevisn7" <chevisn7@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Blueflame asked a question about an Air Heat Exchanger.
        > > I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a
        subject
        > > rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
        > > brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic
        (This
        > > has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
        > > rather than Chemistry)
        > > Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
        > > dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
        > > referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
        > >
        > > To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over
        heat
        > > distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight
        air
        > > separation between each of the plates.
        > >
        > > For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water
        condenser
        > > with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
        > >
        > > Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall.
        > My
        > > first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
        > > inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
        > > needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
        > > gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
        > > better.
        > >
        > > Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at
        the
        > > edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at
        least
        > > a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center
        > of
        > > the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
        > > through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
        > > one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
        > > vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or
        two
        > ¼
        > > inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
        > > the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the
        column
        > > on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to
        solder
        > > each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
        > >
        > > On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with
        the
        > > air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
        > > The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
        > > circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
        > > pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
        > > Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
        > > drilled.
        > >
        > > The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
        > > Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
        > > like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both
        examples of
        > > Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
        > > greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
        > > vapor column.
        > >
        > > As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little.
        As
        > > it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it
        condenses
        > > back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible.
        Thick
        > > fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and
        therefore
        > > it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
        > >
        > > Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
        > > long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
        > > larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you
        are
        > > only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that
        should
        > > not be a major problem.
        > >
        > > The process should work relatively well. Many application use it
        but
        > > most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
        > > temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I
        can
        > > give you another example that should also work but the efficiency
        may
        > > not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
        > > build. Wont know until someone trys it.
        > > Chuck
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Interesting concept, Chuck. Can you draw diagrams? Post 'em to the
        > [photos] section.
        >
        > My experience with designing heat exchangers says that air is a poor
        > transfer fluid, unless it is stirred up with a fan of some sort.
        Same
        > thing applies with water in a coil. It does diddly squat unless the
        > coolant fluid is moving.
        >
        > Sherman has a design that consists of a coil of copper pipe with a
        fan
        > to force the air around it. Simple yet effective. See below...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
        >
      • pugs2510
        ... subject ... (This ... heat ... air ... condenser ... the ... least ... two ... column ... solder ... the ... examples of ... As ... condenses ... Thick ...
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> , "chevisn7" <chevisn7@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Blueflame asked a question about an Air Heat Exchanger.
          > > I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a
          subject
          > > rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
          > > brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic
          (This
          > > has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
          > > rather than Chemistry)
          > > Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
          > > dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
          > > referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
          > >
          > > To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over
          heat
          > > distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight
          air
          > > separation between each of the plates.
          > >
          > > For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water
          condenser
          > > with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
          > >
          > > Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall.
          > My
          > > first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
          > > inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
          > > needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
          > > gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
          > > better.
          > >
          > > Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at
          the
          > > edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at
          least
          > > a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center
          > of
          > > the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
          > > through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
          > > one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
          > > vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or
          two
          > ¼
          > > inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
          > > the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the
          column
          > > on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to
          solder
          > > each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
          > >
          > > On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with
          the
          > > air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
          > > The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
          > > circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
          > > pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
          > > Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
          > > drilled.
          > >
          > > The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
          > > Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
          > > like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both
          examples of
          > > Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
          > > greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
          > > vapor column.
          > >
          > > As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little.
          As
          > > it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it
          condenses
          > > back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible.
          Thick
          > > fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and
          therefore
          > > it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
          > >
          > > Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
          > > long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
          > > larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you
          are
          > > only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that
          should
          > > not be a major problem.
          > >
          > > The process should work relatively well. Many application use it
          but
          > > most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
          > > temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I
          can
          > > give you another example that should also work but the efficiency
          may
          > > not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
          > > build. Wont know until someone trys it.
          > > Chuck
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Interesting concept, Chuck. Can you draw diagrams? Post 'em to the
          > [photos] section.
          >
          > My experience with designing heat exchangers says that air is a poor
          > transfer fluid, unless it is stirred up with a fan of some sort.
          Same
          > thing applies with water in a coil. It does diddly squat unless the
          > coolant fluid is moving.
          >
          > Sherman has a design that consists of a coil of copper pipe with a
          fan
          > to force the air around it. Simple yet effective. See below...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
          >
          THINK BASE BOARD HEATING PIPE. IT HAS FINS ALREADY AND THE PIPE IS
          COPPER . WORKS GREAT . ,I WOULD PLACE A SMALL FAN BEHIND THE
          CONDENSER BLOWING OVER THE THE FINS. I USE A 1500W HEAT SOURCE AND A
          15GAL KEG WITH ABOUT A 2IN BY 36IN STILL HEAD AND HAVE NEVER HAD A
          PROBLEM YET

          LATER PUGS
        • Brandon Lee
          Chuck-- Thanks for the info--i understand what it is you are saying---i m going to try this when i get back to my home--have been on the east coast since Jan
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 8, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Chuck--
            Thanks for the info--i understand what it is you are saying---i'm going to try this when i get back to my home--have been on the east coast since Jan and am ready to start brewing again---missed last year  sorta--only did one batch--  built the water unit  % in just under 4 hrs---i just dont want to fool with the water anymore---
            I'll build one like you describe and let you know how it turns out
            Your brother in the spirits
            Blueflame456

            chevisn7 <chevisn7@...> wrote:
            Blueflame asked a question about an Air Heat Exchanger.
            I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a subject
            rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
            brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic (This
            has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
            rather than Chemistry)
            Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
            dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
            referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.

            To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over heat
            distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight air
            separation between each of the plates.

            For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water condenser
            with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.

            Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall. My
            first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
            inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
            needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
            gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
            better.

            Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at the
            edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at least
            a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center of
            the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
            through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
            one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
            vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or two ¼
            inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
            the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the column
            on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to solder
            each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.

            On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with the
            air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
            The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
            circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
            pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
            Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
            drilled.

            The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
            Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
            like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both examples of
            Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
            greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
            vapor column.

            As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little. As
            it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it condenses
            back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible. Thick
            fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and therefore
            it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.

            Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
            long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
            larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you are
            only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that should
            not be a major problem.

            The process should work relatively well. Many application use it but
            most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
            temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I can
            give you another example that should also work but the efficiency may
            not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
            build. Wont know until someone trys it.
            Chuck



            Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

          • chevisn7
            Blueflame Harry asked me to post a discription of what I was describing. I will try to post something understandable in the next few days. Harry also sent a
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 10, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Blueflame
              Harry asked me to post a discription of what I was describing. I will
              try to post something understandable in the next few days. Harry also
              sent a picture with one of his posts to this title of an air heat
              exchanger that is much simpler to buil. Anothe post came in stating
              to use base board heat tubbint that has heat distribution fins
              already attached. This would also work. The one item I realized after
              my posting is the exchanger will need to be cleaned. This means it
              must come appart so wait until I post the plans before you build one
              like I was describing.
              Chuck
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Chuck--
              > Thanks for the info--i understand what it is you are saying---i'm
              going to try this when i get back to my home--have been on the east
              coast since Jan and am ready to start brewing again---missed last
              year sorta--only did one batch-- built the water unit % in just
              under 4 hrs---i just dont want to fool with the water anymore---
              > I'll build one like you describe and let you know how it turns out
              > Your brother in the spirits
              > Blueflame456
              >
              > chevisn7 <chevisn7@...> wrote:
              > Blueflame asked a question about an Air Heat Exchanger.
              > I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a
              subject
              > rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
              > brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic
              (This
              > has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
              > rather than Chemistry)
              > Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
              > dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
              > referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
              >
              > To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over
              heat
              > distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight
              air
              > separation between each of the plates.
              >
              > For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water
              condenser
              > with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
              >
              > Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall.
              My
              > first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
              > inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
              > needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
              > gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
              > better.
              >
              > Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at the
              > edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at
              least
              > a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center
              of
              > the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
              > through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
              > one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
              > vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or two
              ¼
              > inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
              > the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the column
              > on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to
              solder
              > each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
              >
              > On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with
              the
              > air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
              > The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
              > circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
              > pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
              > Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
              > drilled.
              >
              > The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
              > Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
              > like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both examples
              of
              > Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
              > greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
              > vapor column.
              >
              > As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little. As
              > it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it
              condenses
              > back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible. Thick
              > fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and
              therefore
              > it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
              >
              > Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
              > long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
              > larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you
              are
              > only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that should
              > not be a major problem.
              >
              > The process should work relatively well. Many application use it
              but
              > most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
              > temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I can
              > give you another example that should also work but the efficiency
              may
              > not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
              > build. Wont know until someone trys it.
              > Chuck
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
              Try it now.
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.