## Re: Building an Air Heat Exchange Condenser

Expand Messages
• ... , chevisn7 ... My ... of ... ¼ ... Interesting concept, Chuck. Can you draw diagrams? Post em
Message 1 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chevisn7" <chevisn7@...> wrote:

>
> I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a subject
> rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
> brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic (This
> has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
> rather than Chemistry)
> Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
> dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
> referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
>
> To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over heat
> distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight air
> separation between each of the plates.
>
> For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water condenser
> with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
>
> Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall. My
> first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
> inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
> needed.  Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
> gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles.  The larger the
> better.
>
> Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at the
> edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at least
> a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center of
> the ring.  This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
> through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
> one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
> vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion.  Drill one or two ¼
> inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
> the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the column
> on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to solder
> each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
>
> On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with the
> air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
> The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
> circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
> pattern.  Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
> Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
> drilled.
>
> The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
> Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
> like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both examples of
> Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
> greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
> vapor column.
>
> As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little. As
> it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it condenses
> back into a liquid.  Be sure the fins are as thin as possible. Thick
> fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and therefore
> it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
>
> Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
> long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
> larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you are
> only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that should
> not be a major problem.
>
> The process should work relatively well.  Many application use it but
> most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
> temperature.   Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I can
> give you another example that should also work but the efficiency may
> not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
> build.  Wont know until someone trys it.
> Chuck
>

Interesting concept, Chuck.  Can you draw diagrams?  Post 'em to the [photos] section.

My experience with designing heat exchangers says that air is a poor transfer fluid, unless it is stirred up with a fan of some sort.  Same thing applies with water in a coil.  It does diddly squat unless the coolant fluid is moving.

Sherman has a design that consists of a coil of copper pipe with a fan to force the air around it.  Simple yet effective.  See below...

Slainte!
regards Harry
http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/

• Hi Harry The design you show in your picture is the same concept as a house AC condenser. It would be much more efficient if it had air cooling fins to
Message 2 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008
Hi Harry
The design you show in your picture is the same concept as a house AC
condenser. It would be much more efficient if it had air cooling fins
to disipate the heat. In its present design it is using surface
conductivity which is very inefficient. But you are right it is a
simple yet effective concept as long as you have good air flow and
you are not trying to dissipate a lot of heat.

You are also correct. Forced air flow will drastically improve the
dissipation of heat. I would still recommend a fan blowing on any
type of air flow condenser or heat exchanger. The efficiency would be
greatly improved. But I think one could be designed that did not
need forced air flow.

I will do some doodling and see if I can post some type of diagram to
show the concept.
Chuck

--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> , "chevisn7" <chevisn7@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a
subject
> > rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
> > brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic
(This
> > has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
> > rather than Chemistry)
> > Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
> > dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
> > referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
> >
> > To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over
heat
> > distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight
air
> > separation between each of the plates.
> >
> > For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water
condenser
> > with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
> >
> > Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall.
> My
> > first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
> > inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
> > needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
> > gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
> > better.
> >
> > Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at
the
> > edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at
least
> > a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center
> of
> > the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
> > through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
> > one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
> > vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or
two
> ¼
> > inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
> > the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the
column
> > on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to
solder
> > each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
> >
> > On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with
the
> > air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
> > The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
> > circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
> > pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
> > Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
> > drilled.
> >
> > The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
> > Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
> > like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both
examples of
> > Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
> > greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
> > vapor column.
> >
> > As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little.
As
> > it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it
condenses
> > back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible.
Thick
> > fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and
therefore
> > it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
> >
> > Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
> > long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
> > larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you
are
> > only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that
should
> > not be a major problem.
> >
> > The process should work relatively well. Many application use it
but
> > most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
> > temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I
can
> > give you another example that should also work but the efficiency
may
> > not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
> > build. Wont know until someone trys it.
> > Chuck
> >
>
>
>
> Interesting concept, Chuck. Can you draw diagrams? Post 'em to the
> [photos] section.
>
> My experience with designing heat exchangers says that air is a poor
> transfer fluid, unless it is stirred up with a fan of some sort.
Same
> thing applies with water in a coil. It does diddly squat unless the
> coolant fluid is moving.
>
> Sherman has a design that consists of a coil of copper pipe with a
fan
> to force the air around it. Simple yet effective. See below...
>
>
>
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry
> http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
>
• ... subject ... (This ... heat ... air ... condenser ... the ... least ... two ... column ... solder ... the ... examples of ... As ... condenses ... Thick ...
Message 3 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008
--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> , "chevisn7" <chevisn7@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a
subject
> > rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
> > brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic
(This
> > has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
> > rather than Chemistry)
> > Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
> > dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
> > referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
> >
> > To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over
heat
> > distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight
air
> > separation between each of the plates.
> >
> > For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water
condenser
> > with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
> >
> > Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall.
> My
> > first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
> > inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
> > needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
> > gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
> > better.
> >
> > Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at
the
> > edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at
least
> > a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center
> of
> > the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
> > through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
> > one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
> > vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or
two
> ¼
> > inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
> > the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the
column
> > on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to
solder
> > each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
> >
> > On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with
the
> > air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
> > The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
> > circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
> > pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
> > Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
> > drilled.
> >
> > The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
> > Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
> > like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both
examples of
> > Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
> > greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
> > vapor column.
> >
> > As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little.
As
> > it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it
condenses
> > back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible.
Thick
> > fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and
therefore
> > it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
> >
> > Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
> > long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
> > larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you
are
> > only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that
should
> > not be a major problem.
> >
> > The process should work relatively well. Many application use it
but
> > most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
> > temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I
can
> > give you another example that should also work but the efficiency
may
> > not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
> > build. Wont know until someone trys it.
> > Chuck
> >
>
>
>
> Interesting concept, Chuck. Can you draw diagrams? Post 'em to the
> [photos] section.
>
> My experience with designing heat exchangers says that air is a poor
> transfer fluid, unless it is stirred up with a fan of some sort.
Same
> thing applies with water in a coil. It does diddly squat unless the
> coolant fluid is moving.
>
> Sherman has a design that consists of a coil of copper pipe with a
fan
> to force the air around it. Simple yet effective. See below...
>
>
>
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry
> http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
>
THINK BASE BOARD HEATING PIPE. IT HAS FINS ALREADY AND THE PIPE IS
COPPER . WORKS GREAT . ,I WOULD PLACE A SMALL FAN BEHIND THE
CONDENSER BLOWING OVER THE THE FINS. I USE A 1500W HEAT SOURCE AND A
PROBLEM YET

LATER PUGS
• Chuck-- Thanks for the info--i understand what it is you are saying---i m going to try this when i get back to my home--have been on the east coast since Jan
Message 4 of 6 , Mar 8, 2008
Chuck--
Thanks for the info--i understand what it is you are saying---i'm going to try this when i get back to my home--have been on the east coast since Jan and am ready to start brewing again---missed last year  sorta--only did one batch--  built the water unit  % in just under 4 hrs---i just dont want to fool with the water anymore---
I'll build one like you describe and let you know how it turns out
Blueflame456

chevisn7 <chevisn7@...> wrote:
I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a subject
rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic (This
has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
rather than Chemistry)
Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.

To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over heat
distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight air
separation between each of the plates.

For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water condenser
with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.

Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall. My
first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
better.

Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at the
edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at least
a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center of
the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or two ¼
inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the column
on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to solder
each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.

On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with the
air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
drilled.

The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both examples of
Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
vapor column.

As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little. As
it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it condenses
back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible. Thick
fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and therefore
it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.

Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you are
only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that should
not be a major problem.

The process should work relatively well. Many application use it but
most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I can
give you another example that should also work but the efficiency may
not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
build. Wont know until someone trys it.
Chuck

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

• Blueflame Harry asked me to post a discription of what I was describing. I will try to post something understandable in the next few days. Harry also sent a
Message 5 of 6 , Mar 10, 2008
Blueflame
Harry asked me to post a discription of what I was describing. I will
try to post something understandable in the next few days. Harry also
sent a picture with one of his posts to this title of an air heat
exchanger that is much simpler to buil. Anothe post came in stating
to use base board heat tubbint that has heat distribution fins
already attached. This would also work. The one item I realized after
my posting is the exchanger will need to be cleaned. This means it
must come appart so wait until I post the plans before you build one
like I was describing.
Chuck
--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Brandon Lee <blueflame456@...>
wrote:
>
> Chuck--
> Thanks for the info--i understand what it is you are saying---i'm
going to try this when i get back to my home--have been on the east
coast since Jan and am ready to start brewing again---missed last
year sorta--only did one batch-- built the water unit % in just
under 4 hrs---i just dont want to fool with the water anymore---
> I'll build one like you describe and let you know how it turns out
> Your brother in the spirits
> Blueflame456
>
> chevisn7 <chevisn7@...> wrote:
> I guys Chuck here: Maybe I can now offer a little input on a
subject
> rather than always asking the questions. I am a new bee in this
> brewing process but I have 30+ years plus as a master mechanic
(This
> has been part of my problem I always look to mechanics for answers
> rather than Chemistry)
> Anyway I do have a little knowledge of the latent effect of heat
> dissipation through air circulation and distribution. Commonly
> referred to as a Air Heat Exchanger.
>
> To make an air heat exchanger your vapor will need to pass over
heat
> distribution plates stacked one on top of the other with a slight
air
> separation between each of the plates.
>
> For my Valve Reflux still I would need to replace the water
condenser
> with an Air Heat Exchanger built in the following manner.
>
> Cut a 24 inch piece of Copper pipe into rings about ¾ inches tall.
My
> first estimate would be the exchanger would need to be at least 18
> inches tall when finished. Adjustments in height could be made if
> needed. Then take flat pieces of copper plate possibly 16 or 20
> gauge cut into 6 to 8 inch squares or circles. The larger the
> better.
>
> Solder each ring to the center of each plate so it is sealed at the
> edges and then divide the center of the ring in half. Drill at
least
> a dozen or more ¼ inch holes in one side of one half of the center
of
> the ring. This is so the vapor can flow across the place and then
> through the holes. Alternate this method for each plate going from
> one side to the other. Assemble the rings and plates so the
> vapor can flow up the column in a zig zag motion. Drill one or two
¼
> inch holes in plate at the other side of the inner circle close to
> the edge for condensate to return down the inner edge of the column
> on the opposite side. Be sure to give yourself enough room to
solder
> each of the plates and rings together once the holes are drilled.
>
> On the outside of the pipe where the plate comes in contact with
the
> air you want to drill as many holes through the plate as possible.
> The more holes the better. Your goal is to create as much air
> circulation area as possible. Try and create a honeycomb looking
> pattern. Then repeat the process with each ring and each plate.
> Soldering them one on top of the other after the holes have been
> drilled.
>
> The larger the heat distribution plates (Called Fins) the better.
> Imagine what the head of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle Engine looks
> like. Or look at the Radiator in your car. These are both examples
of
> Air Heat Exchangers. The main difference in this case is you want
> greater efficiency so the fins need to pass all the way into the
> vapor column.
>
> As the vapor passes through each fin it will cool just a little. As
> it touches the next fin it will cool a little more until it
condenses
> back into a liquid. Be sure the fins are as thin as possible. Thick
> fins will require more time to transfer heat to the air and
therefore
> it will take more of them to complete the condensation process.
>
> Larger fins with larger gaps between the fins will also work. (As
> long as the cooling surface area is the same.) Larger gaps with
> larger fins will also help with air circulation. In this case you
are
> only trying to condense vapor that is below 212 degrees that should
> not be a major problem.
>
> The process should work relatively well. Many application use it
but
> most Air Heat Exchangers are used to keep an item at a precise
> temperature. Hopefully this little bit of information helps. I can
> give you another example that should also work but the efficiency
may
> not be quite as good and it would possibly cost a little more to
> build. Wont know until someone trys it.
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
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