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Re: Yeast for corn whiskey

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  • daddyman00126
    True to the heart. You saved the best for last. Bill1burp ... been ... best ... the ... the ... If ... years. ... stationary ... fide ... life. ... ml ... has
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
      True to the heart. You saved the best for last.

      Bill1burp

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
      <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ayuppers Bill,
      >
      > "Liquid Media:
      > This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also
      been
      > referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The
      best
      > media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
      > inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
      > stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in
      the
      > refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
      > on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
      > brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build
      the
      > 10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
      > bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine.
      If
      > stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
      > then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
      > stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
      > in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2
      years.
      > In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
      > nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the
      stationary
      > yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-
      fide
      > non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
      > suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-
      life.
      > Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
      > In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
      > Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10
      ml
      > especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort
      has
      > been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
      > Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
      > years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
      > studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost
      at
      > least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25
      years
      > (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
      > strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
      > strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10
      years
      > or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it
      is
      > not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
      > considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not
      clear
      > whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
      > overall mutation rate."
      >
      > by
      >
      > MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D
      >
      > (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now
      and
      > then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)
      >
      > Vino es Veritas,
      > Jim.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
      > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Wow that is a while on 2 packets of yeast Jim. Question for you.
      > > During your runs do you run your wash back to back. Another words
      > > when you charge your still do you put in clean water so your
      yeast
      > > will not die on you. Can it set like that for a few days until
      you
      > > put in your backset and get ready for another mash?
      > >
      > > I may not have the ability to run my wash back to back but I
      really
      > > want to try the sour mash trick. So I was thinking if I needed
      to,
      > I
      > > could put in the fresh water in on top of the yeast so it will
      not
      > > die and maybe put in some nutrients to give the yeast something
      to
      > > chew on while it waits for new corn. Then I could put in new corn
      > > flakes and corn meal and sugar and time it so I will be
      distilling
      > on
      > > the weekend.
      > >
      > > The best for last
      > > BILL1BURP
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
      > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne
      yeast,
      > > > that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn
      > > > whiskey lol). Im currently on my 17th fermentation from 2
      > packets
      > > I
      > > > pitched last fall, makin' Sourmash Whiskey of course, and have
      no
      > > > complaints... (ive also used some to make sugar washes in
      > > between).
      > > >
      > > > Vino es Veritas,
      > > > Jim.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie"
      <rye_junkie@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@>
      > wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the
      Prestige.
      > > I'm
      > > > not
      > > > > > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as
      > sour
      > > > mash
      > > > > > method. How about good place to buy yeast?
      > > > >
      > > > > Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast
      > > brands.
      > > > > These three come to mind:
      > > > > http://www.home-distilling.com/
      > > > > http://www.brewhaus.com/
      > > > > http://homebrewheaven.com/
      > > > > or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then
      > give
      > > > them
      > > > > your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast
      > though.
      > > > with
      > > > > the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or
      more.
      > > > >
      > > > > Mason
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • daddyman00126
      Thanks for the info Jim and Sherman, this will help me in the future when I want to culture my own yeast. But for now all I want to do is keep alive what I
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
        Thanks for the info Jim and Sherman, this will help me in the future
        when I want to culture my own yeast. But for now all I want to do is
        keep alive what I got. So I think I will take about 1 1/2 gallons of
        water to about 2 cups of sugar and put it in my wash bucket. That
        should help keep the yeast alive for a couple of days so I can time
        when my mesh will be ready to distill.

        Once again thanks for the help folks.

        The best for last
        BILL1BURP

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
        <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Really sounds like a great way Sherman,
        >
        > But i dont have a fish tank anymore (it broke and all the fish
        died -
        > sigh), and right now, just trying to save enought money for a new
        10
        > gallon SS boiler lol. But im definitly going to try this.
        >
        > Vino es Veritas,
        > Jim.
        >
        > PS. Bill, I hope Sherman's and my answers means a yes to your
        > questions... LOL.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > This is a practical implementation of that dissertation.
        > > When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones
        > and
        > > a typical pump suited to a ten gallon tank. I start with a very
        weak
        > > molasses, urea, and b complex to make a 5 gallon mixture. I try
        for
        > a
        > > gravity of 1.020 which isn't much molasses.
        > >
        > > Procedure for fish tank yeast propagator.
        > > So I start with:
        > > 64 fl oz of molasses
        > > 1 tbs urea or DAP or your favorite nitrogen source.
        > > 2 one a day style vitamins ground fine.
        > > 1/4 tsp Epsom salts, I usually find the USP grade which is very
        > pure.
        > > boil all this together in a gallon of water for 30 minutes.
        > >
        > > Add enough water to bring the level to half a 10 gallon fish tank.
        > > Cover the thing with a support and a thin cloth. The hamster wire
        > tops
        > > are fine for this.
        > >
        > > With no alcohol and this small gravity yeast grow like crazy.
        > > The next 6 days I add another 16 oz of molasses.
        > >
        > > The yeast is still going to make copious amounts of CO2. This will
        > > make a gas cap on top of the liquid. The air coming in will
        prevent
        > > the alcohol process because there will be no need for the yeast
        to
        > use
        > > anaerobic respiration.( converting the sugar to O2, CO2 and
        ETOH )
        > So
        > > the yeast are happy and grow really fast. In 7 days there will be
        > such
        > > a cloud of yeast that you can make all the liquid starter you
        need.
        > > Stop feeding and run for another 2 days to make sure all the
        sugar
        > is
        > > eaten. This point is important and is usually missed even in a
        lot
        > of
        > > popular books. If you still have sugar, storage becomes a problem.
        > >
        > > Turn the whole thing off and let it settle for a day or two to
        make
        > a
        > > nice sludge at the bottom. It is not necessary to allow it to
        clear
        > > because the yeast is what you are after.
        > > Rack off as much liquid as you can without disturbing the sludge.
        > You
        > > should leave about 2.5 gallons of liquid,
        >
        > ____ snip_____
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Ahh, Thanks Bill, All i gots is a BA (Bullchit Artist), and one of them thar MBA thingys (Master Bullchit Artist), but aint got one of them thar big fancy
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
          Ahh, Thanks Bill,

          All i gots is a BA (Bullchit Artist), and one of them thar MBA
          thingys (Master Bullchit Artist), but aint got one of them thar big
          fancy thingies - PH.D (Piled Higer n' Deeper) - so i jest tries to
          keep it simple :):). Plus being a lazy SOB (self made of course)
          moonshiner meself...

          Vino es Veritas,
          Jim.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
          <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
          >
          > True to the heart. You saved the best for last.
          >
          > Bill1burp
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
          > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:

          Ayuppers Bill,

          "Liquid Media:
          This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been
          referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The best
          media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
          inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
          stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in the
          refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
          on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
          brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build the
          10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
          bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine. If
          stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
          then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
          stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
          in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2 years.
          In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
          nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
          yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
          non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
          suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
          Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
          In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
          Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10 ml
          especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort has
          been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
          Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
          years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
          studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost at
          least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25 years
          (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
          strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
          strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10 years
          or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it is
          not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
          considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not clear
          whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
          overall mutation rate."

          by

          MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D

          (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now and
          then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)

          Vino es Veritas,
          Jim.
        • Harry
          ... and ... a ... pure. ... tops ... use ... So ... such ... is ... of ... a ... You ... caps. ... in ... chemicals ... cup ... sterilize. ... outside ... kill
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > This is a practical implementation of that dissertation.
            > When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones
            and
            > a typical pump suited to a ten gallon tank. I start with a very weak
            > molasses, urea, and b complex to make a 5 gallon mixture. I try for
            a
            > gravity of 1.020 which isn't much molasses.
            >
            > Procedure for fish tank yeast propagator.
            > So I start with:
            > 64 fl oz of molasses
            > 1 tbs urea or DAP or your favorite nitrogen source.
            > 2 one a day style vitamins ground fine.
            > 1/4 tsp Epsom salts, I usually find the USP grade which is very
            pure.
            > boil all this together in a gallon of water for 30 minutes.
            >
            > Add enough water to bring the level to half a 10 gallon fish tank.
            > Cover the thing with a support and a thin cloth. The hamster wire
            tops
            > are fine for this.
            >
            > With no alcohol and this small gravity yeast grow like crazy.
            > The next 6 days I add another 16 oz of molasses.
            >
            > The yeast is still going to make copious amounts of CO2. This will
            > make a gas cap on top of the liquid. The air coming in will prevent
            > the alcohol process because there will be no need for the yeast to
            use
            > anaerobic respiration.( converting the sugar to O2, CO2 and ETOH )
            So
            > the yeast are happy and grow really fast. In 7 days there will be
            such
            > a cloud of yeast that you can make all the liquid starter you need.
            > Stop feeding and run for another 2 days to make sure all the sugar
            is
            > eaten. This point is important and is usually missed even in a lot
            of
            > popular books. If you still have sugar, storage becomes a problem.
            >
            > Turn the whole thing off and let it settle for a day or two to make
            a
            > nice sludge at the bottom. It is not necessary to allow it to clear
            > because the yeast is what you are after.
            > Rack off as much liquid as you can without disturbing the sludge.
            You
            > should leave about 2.5 gallons of liquid,
            >
            > Procedure for storing liquid starter.
            > I get my bottles by buying a good import beer without twist off
            caps.
            > Procure 12 count 12 oz. beer bottles and new caps. Boil 12 bottles
            in
            > a large pot for at least 30 minutes. Skip the sterilization
            chemicals
            > used for homebrew. These are not needed. Also boil a funnel and a
            cup
            > for dipping and a large spoon for stirring.
            >
            > Remove the bottles from the bath without touching the mouth of the
            > bottle. Make sure they are empty. A bit of water left will not hurt.
            >
            > Place the caps in some high proof, at least 40%, alcohol to
            sterilize.
            > Wipe all the bottle mouths with alcohol on the inside top and
            outside
            > before filling. A paper towel dipped in clean alcohol works well.
            >
            > Stir the contents of the tank. Ladle the contents into the bottles
            > being neat. If you mess up the top of the bottle, clean with alcohol
            > again. Remove a cap from the alcohol and cap the bottle. Store these
            > in the refrigerator. Do not allow them to freeze as freezing will
            kill
            > a lot of brewing and wine yeasts. Specialized bakers strains can be
            > frozen but we are not using these.
            >
            > Each one of these bottles is a super starter. It contains enough
            yeast
            > to ferment 5 gallons of 1.08 sugar water unaided. They are also
            > prolific yeast because they were propagated with air. I have used a
            > single bottle to ferment 40 gallons of nutrient balanced wash with
            no
            > issues.
            >
            > So for all the preparation it makes it as simple a pop and pitch.



            Sherman,

            One further step with glycerin will allow you to freeze almost any
            yeast you propagate or harvest. See here for one way...
            http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/yeast_harv_freeze.html

            Glycerin buffer prevents the cells from bursting (water expands as
            ice when frozen).

            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • daddyman00126
            Thanks for the laugh, I needed it. The best for last BILL1BURP ... years
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
              Thanks for the laugh, I needed it.

              The best for last
              BILL1BURP


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
              <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ahh, Thanks Bill,
              >
              > All i gots is a BA (Bullchit Artist), and one of them thar MBA
              > thingys (Master Bullchit Artist), but aint got one of them thar big
              > fancy thingies - PH.D (Piled Higer n' Deeper) - so i jest tries to
              > keep it simple :):). Plus being a lazy SOB (self made of course)
              > moonshiner meself...
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              > Jim.
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
              > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
              > >
              > > True to the heart. You saved the best for last.
              > >
              > > Bill1burp
              > >
              > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
              > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
              >
              > Ayuppers Bill,
              >
              > "Liquid Media:
              > This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been
              > referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The best
              > media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
              > inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
              > stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in the
              > refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
              > on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
              > brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build the
              > 10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
              > bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine. If
              > stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
              > then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
              > stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
              > in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2 years.
              > In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
              > nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
              > yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
              > non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
              > suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
              > Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
              > In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
              > Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10 ml
              > especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort has
              > been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
              > Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
              > years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
              > studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost at
              > least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25 years
              > (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
              > strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
              > strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10
              years
              > or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it is
              > not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
              > considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not clear
              > whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
              > overall mutation rate."
              >
              > by
              >
              > MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D
              >
              > (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now and
              > then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              > Jim.
              >
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