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Yeast for corn whiskey

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  • wvriver2000
    I want to make batch of corn whiskey using cracked corn and sugar. 25# cracked corn 25# sugar. 25 gallons water. I want to try yeast that is not turbo, or
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
      I want to make batch of corn whiskey using cracked corn and sugar. 25#
      cracked corn 25# sugar. 25 gallons water. I want to try yeast that is
      not turbo, or bakers. Was looking at EC-1118 but what is whiskey yeast
      that some sites have. The whiskey yeast has ASP in with it. Which
      would be better to use? I was going to add box corn flakes to mash.
      Do I need ASP too?
      Tim
    • rye_junkie
      Tim, I have not tried any of the whiskey yeasts but i can vouch for the EC1118 and also the KLV116. Both make some very nice corn whiskey and both should
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
        Tim,
        I have not tried any of the whiskey yeasts but i can vouch for the
        EC1118 and also the KLV116. Both make some very nice corn whiskey and
        both should easily handle the sugar content in your recipe. I have
        some sour mash going with the KLV right now and it is working quite well.

        Mason

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@...> wrote:
        >
        > I want to make batch of corn whiskey using cracked corn and sugar. 25#
        > cracked corn 25# sugar. 25 gallons water. I want to try yeast that is
        > not turbo, or bakers. Was looking at EC-1118 but what is whiskey yeast
        > that some sites have. The whiskey yeast has ASP in with it. Which
        > would be better to use? I was going to add box corn flakes to mash.
        > Do I need ASP too?
        > Tim
        >
      • Sherman
        I ve tried just about everything and usually I am a real tight wad. A friend gave me a package of Prestige WD with AG and it is about as good as it gets. It
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
          I've tried just about everything and usually I am a real tight wad.
          A friend gave me a package of Prestige WD with AG and it is about as
          good as it gets. It will actually convert the raw corn without cooking
          and makes real high proof.

          The distilled flavor with corn meal and corn flakes was awesome.
          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Tim,
          > I have not tried any of the whiskey yeasts but i can vouch for the
          > EC1118 and also the KLV116. Both make some very nice corn whiskey and
          > both should easily handle the sugar content in your recipe. I have
          > some sour mash going with the KLV right now and it is working quite
          well.
          >
          > Mason
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I want to make batch of corn whiskey using cracked corn and sugar.
          25#
          > > cracked corn 25# sugar. 25 gallons water. I want to try yeast
          that is
          > > not turbo, or bakers. Was looking at EC-1118 but what is whiskey
          yeast
          > > that some sites have. The whiskey yeast has ASP in with it. Which
          > > would be better to use? I was going to add box corn flakes to mash.
          > > Do I need ASP too?
          > > Tim
          > >
          >
        • wvriver2000
          I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige. I m not sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as sour mash method. How about
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
            I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige. I'm not
            sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as sour mash
            method. How about good place to buy yeast?

            >
            > I've tried just about everything and usually I am a real tight wad.
            > A friend gave me a package of Prestige WD with AG and it is about as
            > good as it gets. It will actually convert the raw corn without
            cooking
            > and makes real high proof.
            >
            > The distilled flavor with corn meal and corn flakes was awesome.
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Tim,
            > > I have not tried any of the whiskey yeasts but i can vouch for the
            > > EC1118 and also the KLV116. Both make some very nice corn
            whiskey and
            > > both should easily handle the sugar content in your recipe. I
            have
            > > some sour mash going with the KLV right now and it is working
            quite
            > well.
            > >
            > > Mason
            > >
            > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I want to make batch of corn whiskey using cracked corn and
            sugar.
            > 25#
            > > > cracked corn 25# sugar. 25 gallons water. I want to try yeast
            > that is
            > > > not turbo, or bakers. Was looking at EC-1118 but what is
            whiskey
            > yeast
            > > > that some sites have. The whiskey yeast has ASP in with it.
            Which
            > > > would be better to use? I was going to add box corn flakes to
            mash.
            > > > Do I need ASP too?
            > > > Tim
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • rye_junkie
            ... Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast brands. These three come to mind: http://www.home-distilling.com/ http://www.brewhaus.com/
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@...> wrote:
              >
              > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige. I'm not
              > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as sour mash
              > method. How about good place to buy yeast?

              Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast brands.
              These three come to mind:
              http://www.home-distilling.com/
              http://www.brewhaus.com/
              http://homebrewheaven.com/
              or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then give them
              your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast though. with
              the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or more.

              Mason
            • jamesonbeam1
              I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne yeast, that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn whiskey lol). Im currently
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
                I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne yeast,
                that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn
                whiskey lol). Im currently on my 17th fermentation from 2 packets I
                pitched last fall, makin' Sourmash Whiskey of course, and have no
                complaints... (ive also used some to make sugar washes in between).

                Vino es Veritas,
                Jim.


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige. I'm
                not
                > > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as sour
                mash
                > > method. How about good place to buy yeast?
                >
                > Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast brands.
                > These three come to mind:
                > http://www.home-distilling.com/
                > http://www.brewhaus.com/
                > http://homebrewheaven.com/
                > or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then give
                them
                > your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast though.
                with
                > the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or more.
                >
                > Mason
                >
              • daddyman00126
                Wow that is a while on 2 packets of yeast Jim. Question for you. During your runs do you run your wash back to back. Another words when you charge your still
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
                  Wow that is a while on 2 packets of yeast Jim. Question for you.
                  During your runs do you run your wash back to back. Another words
                  when you charge your still do you put in clean water so your yeast
                  will not die on you. Can it set like that for a few days until you
                  put in your backset and get ready for another mash?

                  I may not have the ability to run my wash back to back but I really
                  want to try the sour mash trick. So I was thinking if I needed to, I
                  could put in the fresh water in on top of the yeast so it will not
                  die and maybe put in some nutrients to give the yeast something to
                  chew on while it waits for new corn. Then I could put in new corn
                  flakes and corn meal and sugar and time it so I will be distilling on
                  the weekend.

                  The best for last
                  BILL1BURP



                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                  <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne yeast,
                  > that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn
                  > whiskey lol). Im currently on my 17th fermentation from 2 packets
                  I
                  > pitched last fall, makin' Sourmash Whiskey of course, and have no
                  > complaints... (ive also used some to make sugar washes in
                  between).
                  >
                  > Vino es Veritas,
                  > Jim.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige.
                  I'm
                  > not
                  > > > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as sour
                  > mash
                  > > > method. How about good place to buy yeast?
                  > >
                  > > Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast
                  brands.
                  > > These three come to mind:
                  > > http://www.home-distilling.com/
                  > > http://www.brewhaus.com/
                  > > http://homebrewheaven.com/
                  > > or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then give
                  > them
                  > > your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast though.
                  > with
                  > > the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or more.
                  > >
                  > > Mason
                  > >
                  >
                • jamesonbeam1
                  Ayuppers Bill, Liquid Media: This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
                    Ayuppers Bill,

                    "Liquid Media:
                    This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been
                    referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The best
                    media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
                    inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
                    stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in the
                    refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
                    on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
                    brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build the
                    10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
                    bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine. If
                    stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
                    then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
                    stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
                    in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2 years.
                    In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
                    nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
                    yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
                    non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
                    suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
                    Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
                    In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
                    Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10 ml
                    especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort has
                    been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
                    Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
                    years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
                    studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost at
                    least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25 years
                    (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
                    strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
                    strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10 years
                    or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it is
                    not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
                    considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not clear
                    whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
                    overall mutation rate."

                    by

                    MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D

                    (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now and
                    then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)

                    Vino es Veritas,
                    Jim.







                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                    <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Wow that is a while on 2 packets of yeast Jim. Question for you.
                    > During your runs do you run your wash back to back. Another words
                    > when you charge your still do you put in clean water so your yeast
                    > will not die on you. Can it set like that for a few days until you
                    > put in your backset and get ready for another mash?
                    >
                    > I may not have the ability to run my wash back to back but I really
                    > want to try the sour mash trick. So I was thinking if I needed to,
                    I
                    > could put in the fresh water in on top of the yeast so it will not
                    > die and maybe put in some nutrients to give the yeast something to
                    > chew on while it waits for new corn. Then I could put in new corn
                    > flakes and corn meal and sugar and time it so I will be distilling
                    on
                    > the weekend.
                    >
                    > The best for last
                    > BILL1BURP
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                    > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne yeast,
                    > > that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn
                    > > whiskey lol). Im currently on my 17th fermentation from 2
                    packets
                    > I
                    > > pitched last fall, makin' Sourmash Whiskey of course, and have no
                    > > complaints... (ive also used some to make sugar washes in
                    > between).
                    > >
                    > > Vino es Veritas,
                    > > Jim.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@>
                    wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige.
                    > I'm
                    > > not
                    > > > > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as
                    sour
                    > > mash
                    > > > > method. How about good place to buy yeast?
                    > > >
                    > > > Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast
                    > brands.
                    > > > These three come to mind:
                    > > > http://www.home-distilling.com/
                    > > > http://www.brewhaus.com/
                    > > > http://homebrewheaven.com/
                    > > > or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then
                    give
                    > > them
                    > > > your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast
                    though.
                    > > with
                    > > > the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or more.
                    > > >
                    > > > Mason
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Sherman
                    This is a practical implementation of that dissertation. When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones and a typical pump suited to a ten
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
                      This is a practical implementation of that dissertation.
                      When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones and
                      a typical pump suited to a ten gallon tank. I start with a very weak
                      molasses, urea, and b complex to make a 5 gallon mixture. I try for a
                      gravity of 1.020 which isn't much molasses.

                      Procedure for fish tank yeast propagator.
                      So I start with:
                      64 fl oz of molasses
                      1 tbs urea or DAP or your favorite nitrogen source.
                      2 one a day style vitamins ground fine.
                      1/4 tsp Epsom salts, I usually find the USP grade which is very pure.
                      boil all this together in a gallon of water for 30 minutes.

                      Add enough water to bring the level to half a 10 gallon fish tank.
                      Cover the thing with a support and a thin cloth. The hamster wire tops
                      are fine for this.

                      With no alcohol and this small gravity yeast grow like crazy.
                      The next 6 days I add another 16 oz of molasses.

                      The yeast is still going to make copious amounts of CO2. This will
                      make a gas cap on top of the liquid. The air coming in will prevent
                      the alcohol process because there will be no need for the yeast to use
                      anaerobic respiration.( converting the sugar to O2, CO2 and ETOH ) So
                      the yeast are happy and grow really fast. In 7 days there will be such
                      a cloud of yeast that you can make all the liquid starter you need.
                      Stop feeding and run for another 2 days to make sure all the sugar is
                      eaten. This point is important and is usually missed even in a lot of
                      popular books. If you still have sugar, storage becomes a problem.

                      Turn the whole thing off and let it settle for a day or two to make a
                      nice sludge at the bottom. It is not necessary to allow it to clear
                      because the yeast is what you are after.
                      Rack off as much liquid as you can without disturbing the sludge. You
                      should leave about 2.5 gallons of liquid,

                      Procedure for storing liquid starter.
                      I get my bottles by buying a good import beer without twist off caps.
                      Procure 12 count 12 oz. beer bottles and new caps. Boil 12 bottles in
                      a large pot for at least 30 minutes. Skip the sterilization chemicals
                      used for homebrew. These are not needed. Also boil a funnel and a cup
                      for dipping and a large spoon for stirring.

                      Remove the bottles from the bath without touching the mouth of the
                      bottle. Make sure they are empty. A bit of water left will not hurt.

                      Place the caps in some high proof, at least 40%, alcohol to sterilize.
                      Wipe all the bottle mouths with alcohol on the inside top and outside
                      before filling. A paper towel dipped in clean alcohol works well.

                      Stir the contents of the tank. Ladle the contents into the bottles
                      being neat. If you mess up the top of the bottle, clean with alcohol
                      again. Remove a cap from the alcohol and cap the bottle. Store these
                      in the refrigerator. Do not allow them to freeze as freezing will kill
                      a lot of brewing and wine yeasts. Specialized bakers strains can be
                      frozen but we are not using these.

                      Each one of these bottles is a super starter. It contains enough yeast
                      to ferment 5 gallons of 1.08 sugar water unaided. They are also
                      prolific yeast because they were propagated with air. I have used a
                      single bottle to ferment 40 gallons of nutrient balanced wash with no
                      issues.

                      So for all the preparation it makes it as simple a pop and pitch.


                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                      <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ayuppers Bill,
                      >
                      > "Liquid Media:
                      > This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been
                      > referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The best
                      > media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
                      > inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
                      > stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in the
                      > refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
                      > on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
                      > brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build the
                      > 10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
                      > bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine. If
                      > stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
                      > then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
                      > stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
                      > in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2 years.
                      > In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
                      > nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
                      > yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
                      > non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
                      > suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
                      > Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
                      > In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
                      > Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10 ml
                      > especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort has
                      > been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
                      > Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
                      > years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
                      > studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost at
                      > least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25 years
                      > (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
                      > strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
                      > strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10 years
                      > or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it is
                      > not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
                      > considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not clear
                      > whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
                      > overall mutation rate."
                      >
                      > by
                      >
                      > MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D
                      >
                      > (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now and
                      > then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)
                      >
                      > Vino es Veritas,
                      > Jim.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                      > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Wow that is a while on 2 packets of yeast Jim. Question for you.
                      > > During your runs do you run your wash back to back. Another words
                      > > when you charge your still do you put in clean water so your yeast
                      > > will not die on you. Can it set like that for a few days until you
                      > > put in your backset and get ready for another mash?
                      > >
                      > > I may not have the ability to run my wash back to back but I really
                      > > want to try the sour mash trick. So I was thinking if I needed to,
                      > I
                      > > could put in the fresh water in on top of the yeast so it will not
                      > > die and maybe put in some nutrients to give the yeast something to
                      > > chew on while it waits for new corn. Then I could put in new corn
                      > > flakes and corn meal and sugar and time it so I will be distilling
                      > on
                      > > the weekend.
                      > >
                      > > The best for last
                      > > BILL1BURP
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                      > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne yeast,
                      > > > that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn
                      > > > whiskey lol). Im currently on my 17th fermentation from 2
                      > packets
                      > > I
                      > > > pitched last fall, makin' Sourmash Whiskey of course, and have no
                      > > > complaints... (ive also used some to make sugar washes in
                      > > between).
                      > > >
                      > > > Vino es Veritas,
                      > > > Jim.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie" <rye_junkie@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@>
                      > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the Prestige.
                      > > I'm
                      > > > not
                      > > > > > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as
                      > sour
                      > > > mash
                      > > > > > method. How about good place to buy yeast?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast
                      > > brands.
                      > > > > These three come to mind:
                      > > > > http://www.home-distilling.com/
                      > > > > http://www.brewhaus.com/
                      > > > > http://homebrewheaven.com/
                      > > > > or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then
                      > give
                      > > > them
                      > > > > your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast
                      > though.
                      > > > with
                      > > > > the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or more.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Mason
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • jamesonbeam1
                      Really sounds like a great way Sherman, But i dont have a fish tank anymore (it broke and all the fish died - sigh), and right now, just trying to save enought
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
                        Really sounds like a great way Sherman,

                        But i dont have a fish tank anymore (it broke and all the fish died -
                        sigh), and right now, just trying to save enought money for a new 10
                        gallon SS boiler lol. But im definitly going to try this.

                        Vino es Veritas,
                        Jim.

                        PS. Bill, I hope Sherman's and my answers means a yes to your
                        questions... LOL.



                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > This is a practical implementation of that dissertation.
                        > When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones
                        and
                        > a typical pump suited to a ten gallon tank. I start with a very weak
                        > molasses, urea, and b complex to make a 5 gallon mixture. I try for
                        a
                        > gravity of 1.020 which isn't much molasses.
                        >
                        > Procedure for fish tank yeast propagator.
                        > So I start with:
                        > 64 fl oz of molasses
                        > 1 tbs urea or DAP or your favorite nitrogen source.
                        > 2 one a day style vitamins ground fine.
                        > 1/4 tsp Epsom salts, I usually find the USP grade which is very
                        pure.
                        > boil all this together in a gallon of water for 30 minutes.
                        >
                        > Add enough water to bring the level to half a 10 gallon fish tank.
                        > Cover the thing with a support and a thin cloth. The hamster wire
                        tops
                        > are fine for this.
                        >
                        > With no alcohol and this small gravity yeast grow like crazy.
                        > The next 6 days I add another 16 oz of molasses.
                        >
                        > The yeast is still going to make copious amounts of CO2. This will
                        > make a gas cap on top of the liquid. The air coming in will prevent
                        > the alcohol process because there will be no need for the yeast to
                        use
                        > anaerobic respiration.( converting the sugar to O2, CO2 and ETOH )
                        So
                        > the yeast are happy and grow really fast. In 7 days there will be
                        such
                        > a cloud of yeast that you can make all the liquid starter you need.
                        > Stop feeding and run for another 2 days to make sure all the sugar
                        is
                        > eaten. This point is important and is usually missed even in a lot
                        of
                        > popular books. If you still have sugar, storage becomes a problem.
                        >
                        > Turn the whole thing off and let it settle for a day or two to make
                        a
                        > nice sludge at the bottom. It is not necessary to allow it to clear
                        > because the yeast is what you are after.
                        > Rack off as much liquid as you can without disturbing the sludge.
                        You
                        > should leave about 2.5 gallons of liquid,

                        ____ snip_____
                      • daddyman00126
                        True to the heart. You saved the best for last. Bill1burp ... been ... best ... the ... the ... If ... years. ... stationary ... fide ... life. ... ml ... has
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 1 3:00 AM
                          True to the heart. You saved the best for last.

                          Bill1burp

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                          <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Ayuppers Bill,
                          >
                          > "Liquid Media:
                          > This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also
                          been
                          > referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The
                          best
                          > media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
                          > inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
                          > stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in
                          the
                          > refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
                          > on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
                          > brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build
                          the
                          > 10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
                          > bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine.
                          If
                          > stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
                          > then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
                          > stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
                          > in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2
                          years.
                          > In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
                          > nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the
                          stationary
                          > yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-
                          fide
                          > non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
                          > suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-
                          life.
                          > Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
                          > In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
                          > Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10
                          ml
                          > especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort
                          has
                          > been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
                          > Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
                          > years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
                          > studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost
                          at
                          > least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25
                          years
                          > (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
                          > strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
                          > strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10
                          years
                          > or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it
                          is
                          > not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
                          > considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not
                          clear
                          > whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
                          > overall mutation rate."
                          >
                          > by
                          >
                          > MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D
                          >
                          > (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now
                          and
                          > then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)
                          >
                          > Vino es Veritas,
                          > Jim.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                          > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Wow that is a while on 2 packets of yeast Jim. Question for you.
                          > > During your runs do you run your wash back to back. Another words
                          > > when you charge your still do you put in clean water so your
                          yeast
                          > > will not die on you. Can it set like that for a few days until
                          you
                          > > put in your backset and get ready for another mash?
                          > >
                          > > I may not have the ability to run my wash back to back but I
                          really
                          > > want to try the sour mash trick. So I was thinking if I needed
                          to,
                          > I
                          > > could put in the fresh water in on top of the yeast so it will
                          not
                          > > die and maybe put in some nutrients to give the yeast something
                          to
                          > > chew on while it waits for new corn. Then I could put in new corn
                          > > flakes and corn meal and sugar and time it so I will be
                          distilling
                          > on
                          > > the weekend.
                          > >
                          > > The best for last
                          > > BILL1BURP
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                          > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I strongly recommend Lavin EC-1118, a very nice champaigne
                          yeast,
                          > > > that can ferment up to 18% abv (not that you want to for a corn
                          > > > whiskey lol). Im currently on my 17th fermentation from 2
                          > packets
                          > > I
                          > > > pitched last fall, makin' Sourmash Whiskey of course, and have
                          no
                          > > > complaints... (ive also used some to make sugar washes in
                          > > between).
                          > > >
                          > > > Vino es Veritas,
                          > > > Jim.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie"
                          <rye_junkie@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "wvriver2000" <tim@>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I wonder if I use EC-1118 and add ASP is like the
                          Prestige.
                          > > I'm
                          > > > not
                          > > > > > sure about the ASP how much to use. This will be used as
                          > sour
                          > > > mash
                          > > > > > method. How about good place to buy yeast?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Any of the internet home brew sights will sell these yeast
                          > > brands.
                          > > > > These three come to mind:
                          > > > > http://www.home-distilling.com/
                          > > > > http://www.brewhaus.com/
                          > > > > http://homebrewheaven.com/
                          > > > > or if your lucky enough to have a local home brew shop then
                          > give
                          > > > them
                          > > > > your support. They probably wont have the whiskey yeast
                          > though.
                          > > > with
                          > > > > the sour mash method one packet will last you 6 months or
                          more.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Mason
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • daddyman00126
                          Thanks for the info Jim and Sherman, this will help me in the future when I want to culture my own yeast. But for now all I want to do is keep alive what I
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 1 3:12 AM
                            Thanks for the info Jim and Sherman, this will help me in the future
                            when I want to culture my own yeast. But for now all I want to do is
                            keep alive what I got. So I think I will take about 1 1/2 gallons of
                            water to about 2 cups of sugar and put it in my wash bucket. That
                            should help keep the yeast alive for a couple of days so I can time
                            when my mesh will be ready to distill.

                            Once again thanks for the help folks.

                            The best for last
                            BILL1BURP

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                            <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Really sounds like a great way Sherman,
                            >
                            > But i dont have a fish tank anymore (it broke and all the fish
                            died -
                            > sigh), and right now, just trying to save enought money for a new
                            10
                            > gallon SS boiler lol. But im definitly going to try this.
                            >
                            > Vino es Veritas,
                            > Jim.
                            >
                            > PS. Bill, I hope Sherman's and my answers means a yes to your
                            > questions... LOL.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > This is a practical implementation of that dissertation.
                            > > When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones
                            > and
                            > > a typical pump suited to a ten gallon tank. I start with a very
                            weak
                            > > molasses, urea, and b complex to make a 5 gallon mixture. I try
                            for
                            > a
                            > > gravity of 1.020 which isn't much molasses.
                            > >
                            > > Procedure for fish tank yeast propagator.
                            > > So I start with:
                            > > 64 fl oz of molasses
                            > > 1 tbs urea or DAP or your favorite nitrogen source.
                            > > 2 one a day style vitamins ground fine.
                            > > 1/4 tsp Epsom salts, I usually find the USP grade which is very
                            > pure.
                            > > boil all this together in a gallon of water for 30 minutes.
                            > >
                            > > Add enough water to bring the level to half a 10 gallon fish tank.
                            > > Cover the thing with a support and a thin cloth. The hamster wire
                            > tops
                            > > are fine for this.
                            > >
                            > > With no alcohol and this small gravity yeast grow like crazy.
                            > > The next 6 days I add another 16 oz of molasses.
                            > >
                            > > The yeast is still going to make copious amounts of CO2. This will
                            > > make a gas cap on top of the liquid. The air coming in will
                            prevent
                            > > the alcohol process because there will be no need for the yeast
                            to
                            > use
                            > > anaerobic respiration.( converting the sugar to O2, CO2 and
                            ETOH )
                            > So
                            > > the yeast are happy and grow really fast. In 7 days there will be
                            > such
                            > > a cloud of yeast that you can make all the liquid starter you
                            need.
                            > > Stop feeding and run for another 2 days to make sure all the
                            sugar
                            > is
                            > > eaten. This point is important and is usually missed even in a
                            lot
                            > of
                            > > popular books. If you still have sugar, storage becomes a problem.
                            > >
                            > > Turn the whole thing off and let it settle for a day or two to
                            make
                            > a
                            > > nice sludge at the bottom. It is not necessary to allow it to
                            clear
                            > > because the yeast is what you are after.
                            > > Rack off as much liquid as you can without disturbing the sludge.
                            > You
                            > > should leave about 2.5 gallons of liquid,
                            >
                            > ____ snip_____
                            >
                          • jamesonbeam1
                            Ahh, Thanks Bill, All i gots is a BA (Bullchit Artist), and one of them thar MBA thingys (Master Bullchit Artist), but aint got one of them thar big fancy
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 1 6:40 AM
                              Ahh, Thanks Bill,

                              All i gots is a BA (Bullchit Artist), and one of them thar MBA
                              thingys (Master Bullchit Artist), but aint got one of them thar big
                              fancy thingies - PH.D (Piled Higer n' Deeper) - so i jest tries to
                              keep it simple :):). Plus being a lazy SOB (self made of course)
                              moonshiner meself...

                              Vino es Veritas,
                              Jim.

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                              <daddyman00126@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > True to the heart. You saved the best for last.
                              >
                              > Bill1burp
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                              > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:

                              Ayuppers Bill,

                              "Liquid Media:
                              This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been
                              referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The best
                              media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
                              inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
                              stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in the
                              refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
                              on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
                              brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build the
                              10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
                              bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine. If
                              stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
                              then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
                              stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
                              in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2 years.
                              In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
                              nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
                              yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
                              non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
                              suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
                              Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
                              In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
                              Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10 ml
                              especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort has
                              been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
                              Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
                              years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
                              studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost at
                              least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25 years
                              (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
                              strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
                              strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10 years
                              or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it is
                              not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
                              considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not clear
                              whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
                              overall mutation rate."

                              by

                              MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D

                              (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now and
                              then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)

                              Vino es Veritas,
                              Jim.
                            • Harry
                              ... and ... a ... pure. ... tops ... use ... So ... such ... is ... of ... a ... You ... caps. ... in ... chemicals ... cup ... sterilize. ... outside ... kill
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 1 10:57 AM
                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > This is a practical implementation of that dissertation.
                                > When I use a fish tank to grow yeast, I use at least three stones
                                and
                                > a typical pump suited to a ten gallon tank. I start with a very weak
                                > molasses, urea, and b complex to make a 5 gallon mixture. I try for
                                a
                                > gravity of 1.020 which isn't much molasses.
                                >
                                > Procedure for fish tank yeast propagator.
                                > So I start with:
                                > 64 fl oz of molasses
                                > 1 tbs urea or DAP or your favorite nitrogen source.
                                > 2 one a day style vitamins ground fine.
                                > 1/4 tsp Epsom salts, I usually find the USP grade which is very
                                pure.
                                > boil all this together in a gallon of water for 30 minutes.
                                >
                                > Add enough water to bring the level to half a 10 gallon fish tank.
                                > Cover the thing with a support and a thin cloth. The hamster wire
                                tops
                                > are fine for this.
                                >
                                > With no alcohol and this small gravity yeast grow like crazy.
                                > The next 6 days I add another 16 oz of molasses.
                                >
                                > The yeast is still going to make copious amounts of CO2. This will
                                > make a gas cap on top of the liquid. The air coming in will prevent
                                > the alcohol process because there will be no need for the yeast to
                                use
                                > anaerobic respiration.( converting the sugar to O2, CO2 and ETOH )
                                So
                                > the yeast are happy and grow really fast. In 7 days there will be
                                such
                                > a cloud of yeast that you can make all the liquid starter you need.
                                > Stop feeding and run for another 2 days to make sure all the sugar
                                is
                                > eaten. This point is important and is usually missed even in a lot
                                of
                                > popular books. If you still have sugar, storage becomes a problem.
                                >
                                > Turn the whole thing off and let it settle for a day or two to make
                                a
                                > nice sludge at the bottom. It is not necessary to allow it to clear
                                > because the yeast is what you are after.
                                > Rack off as much liquid as you can without disturbing the sludge.
                                You
                                > should leave about 2.5 gallons of liquid,
                                >
                                > Procedure for storing liquid starter.
                                > I get my bottles by buying a good import beer without twist off
                                caps.
                                > Procure 12 count 12 oz. beer bottles and new caps. Boil 12 bottles
                                in
                                > a large pot for at least 30 minutes. Skip the sterilization
                                chemicals
                                > used for homebrew. These are not needed. Also boil a funnel and a
                                cup
                                > for dipping and a large spoon for stirring.
                                >
                                > Remove the bottles from the bath without touching the mouth of the
                                > bottle. Make sure they are empty. A bit of water left will not hurt.
                                >
                                > Place the caps in some high proof, at least 40%, alcohol to
                                sterilize.
                                > Wipe all the bottle mouths with alcohol on the inside top and
                                outside
                                > before filling. A paper towel dipped in clean alcohol works well.
                                >
                                > Stir the contents of the tank. Ladle the contents into the bottles
                                > being neat. If you mess up the top of the bottle, clean with alcohol
                                > again. Remove a cap from the alcohol and cap the bottle. Store these
                                > in the refrigerator. Do not allow them to freeze as freezing will
                                kill
                                > a lot of brewing and wine yeasts. Specialized bakers strains can be
                                > frozen but we are not using these.
                                >
                                > Each one of these bottles is a super starter. It contains enough
                                yeast
                                > to ferment 5 gallons of 1.08 sugar water unaided. They are also
                                > prolific yeast because they were propagated with air. I have used a
                                > single bottle to ferment 40 gallons of nutrient balanced wash with
                                no
                                > issues.
                                >
                                > So for all the preparation it makes it as simple a pop and pitch.



                                Sherman,

                                One further step with glycerin will allow you to freeze almost any
                                yeast you propagate or harvest. See here for one way...
                                http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/yeast_harv_freeze.html

                                Glycerin buffer prevents the cells from bursting (water expands as
                                ice when frozen).

                                Slainte!
                                regards Harry
                              • daddyman00126
                                Thanks for the laugh, I needed it. The best for last BILL1BURP ... years
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 1 11:25 AM
                                  Thanks for the laugh, I needed it.

                                  The best for last
                                  BILL1BURP


                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                                  <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ahh, Thanks Bill,
                                  >
                                  > All i gots is a BA (Bullchit Artist), and one of them thar MBA
                                  > thingys (Master Bullchit Artist), but aint got one of them thar big
                                  > fancy thingies - PH.D (Piled Higer n' Deeper) - so i jest tries to
                                  > keep it simple :):). Plus being a lazy SOB (self made of course)
                                  > moonshiner meself...
                                  >
                                  > Vino es Veritas,
                                  > Jim.
                                  >
                                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "daddyman00126"
                                  > <daddyman00126@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > True to the heart. You saved the best for last.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill1burp
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
                                  > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ayuppers Bill,
                                  >
                                  > "Liquid Media:
                                  > This is a common method of storage for homebrewers and has also been
                                  > referred to as yeast ranching or parallel yeast culturing. The best
                                  > media for this method is wort or wort-containing media. Yeast is
                                  > inoculated into 10 - 20 ml of media and grown until it reaches the
                                  > stationary phase of growth (approximately 3 days) then stored in the
                                  > refrigerator as cold as possible (40 °F). That means don't keep it
                                  > on the door. Stocks should be made in duplicate; one to use for
                                  > brewing, the other as a stock. Some homebrewers prefer to build the
                                  > 10 ml culture upto a larger volume and then dispense it into 12 oz.
                                  > bottles. Storage in culture tubes or small jars also works fine. If
                                  > stored properly, these cultures are stable for up to 6 months and
                                  > then must be recultured (preferably from the untouched master
                                  > stock). There are reports that storage in 10% sucrose after growth
                                  > in wort can increase the shelf-life of yeast to as long as 2 years.
                                  > In this case, it seems to be necessary to remove all residual
                                  > nutrients or wort since direct addition of sucrose to the stationary
                                  > yeast leads to continued fermentation even at 40 °F. Other bona-fide
                                  > non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or glycerol may be more
                                  > suitable but have yet to be tested for improving yeast's shelf-life.
                                  > Yeast strains vary in their sensitivity to storage in liquid wort.
                                  > In general, only a small percentage of the cells survive storage.
                                  > Therefore, it may be necessary to store in volumes larger than 10 ml
                                  > especially if longer storage periods are used. Culturing in wort has
                                  > been extensively characterized by the National Collection of Yeast
                                  > Cultures (NCYC). They have cultured yeast for periods of up to 60
                                  > years and find that the mutation rate can be high. Of 600 strains
                                  > studied as many as 50% with specific nutritional markers had lost at
                                  > least some of their specific markers after culturing for 10-25 years
                                  > (that's after 20-50 passages). This was for all types of yeast
                                  > strains including brewing yeasts. 10% of the 300 brewing yeast
                                  > strains tested showed changes in flocculation behavior after 10
                                  years
                                  > or 20 passages. Thus storage in liquid media is feasible, but it is
                                  > not the method of choice for long-term storage since it can undergo
                                  > considerable genetic drift from the original stock. It is not clear
                                  > whether minimizing the number of passages will also reduce the
                                  > overall mutation rate."
                                  >
                                  > by
                                  >
                                  > MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D
                                  >
                                  > (or you just keep it bubblin' by adding some sugar and water now and
                                  > then like i do - the lazy man's way :):):)
                                  >
                                  > Vino es Veritas,
                                  > Jim.
                                  >
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