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The wash is heating up

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  • Bill Miller
    My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this morning with turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have been keeping an eye on the
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1 6:30 PM
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      My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this morning with
      turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have been
      keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is rising. It is
      now up to 86 degrees.

      Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the temp go
      before I get worried?

      The best for last
      BILL1BURP
    • bbornais
      the higher temperature will not kill these yeasts. You will, however, produce a greater amount of congeners that you will have to deal with down the line. You
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 1 8:12 PM
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        the higher temperature will not kill these yeasts. You will, however,
        produce a greater amount of congeners that you will have to deal with
        down the line.

        You can put salt in your sugar 'low wines'.

        It will have the unmistakeable effect of making you feel more salty
        sweet inside.

        As to increasing the effectiveness of separation. The best way to do
        this is to use the proper equipment and make the correct cuts.

        Bryan.

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Miller" <bill1burp@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this morning
        with
        > turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have been
        > keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is rising. It is
        > now up to 86 degrees.
        >
        > Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the temp go
        > before I get worried?
        >
        > The best for last
        > BILL1BURP
        >
      • burrows206
        Hi BILL1BURP, Your 78 F is 22 C. and is good and OK for fermenting wine. But turbo is different and acts to the extremes. The very act and speed of the
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 2 2:23 AM
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          Hi BILL1BURP,
          Your 78 F is 22 C. and is good and OK for fermenting wine. But
          turbo is different and acts to the extremes. The very act and speed
          of the conversion of the sugar turning to alcohol then turning to Co2
          will have quite a few wanted and unwanted side effects. A bit like
          when you rub your hands together in cold weather they warm up with
          the friction which increases the blood flow to that area and makes
          you warmer, that's a wanted side effect.
          The same thing is happening to your yeast and sugar doing all
          that converting, cavorting and reproducing. And that, as we all know
          creates heat. Anyway moving swiftly along, the ambient room
          temperature needs to be lowered. So move the lot into the cellar,
          garage or somewhere cooler than the nice convenient place you have it
          residing, this animal you are breeding is not wine.
          It'll still heat up in the cooler atmosphere but the outside of your
          fermenter should disperse the heat build up in the cooler air.
          Now that should work OK for 25litres/5gallons but the bigger the
          quantity the more heat you will have to loose exponentially. For
          example 10 gallons you need to loose 4 times plus as much heat.
          Let me try to give you a simple example how this heat thing can
          grow out of all control:-
          A paving slab 2ft. x 2ft. = 4sq. feet.
          You would logically think to get twice the area you would double up
          the paving slab side measurements to 4ft. x 4ft. = 16sq. feet. This
          is 4 times the area you will end up with
          Now we are dealing with heat and volume in three dimensions
          which is more than the power of two and way beyond my capabilities.
          But we have the people here on this forum, who do know how to
          calculate this lot, so step up guys?
          The upshot of all this is, keep your fermenting turbo washes in
          manageable batches that you can distil in a reasonable time span
          Geoff


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Miller" <bill1burp@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this morning
          with
          > turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have been
          > keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is rising. It
          is
          > now up to 86 degrees.
          >
          > Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the temp
          go
          > before I get worried?
          >
          > The best for last
          > BILL1BURP
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          This reaction is to be expected - especially with fast acting / attenuating yeasts like turbos (heat is one of the by-products of the sugar to alcohol / CO2
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 2 3:54 AM
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            This reaction is to be expected - especially with fast acting /
            attenuating yeasts like turbos (heat is one of the by-products of the
            sugar to alcohol / CO2 converstion.

            If you look at the yeast chart at:
            http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php
            you will see that 84F (30C) is at the upper limits of most of the
            strains temp range. Turbos are engineered to withstand extremes in
            temp and alcohol levels, but keep an eye on it. If it keeps gettting
            warmer, you might want to get a gallon ziplock freezer bag filled with
            ice, put it in your fermenter and cool it down now and then.

            Vino es Veritas,
            Jim.



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Miller" <bill1burp@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this morning
            with
            > turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have been
            > keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is rising. It is
            > now up to 86 degrees.
            >
            > Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the temp go
            > before I get worried?
            >
            > The best for last
            > BILL1BURP
            >
          • chevisn7
            I am also doing my first batch and was worried about the control of heat. I read an article about using a double insulated container where by the mash being
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 4 6:05 PM
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              I am also doing my first batch and was worried about the control of
              heat. I read an article about using a double insulated container
              where by the mash being fermented is placed in a tub filled with
              water. This tub has a aquarium heater in it set to 75 degrees. This
              tub is set inside another tub again filled with water but in the
              second tub cool water is allowed to trickle in at a slow but steady
              rate and flow out of a hose placed near the top. The combination will
              in theory control both cold and hot temperatures. So far my mix has
              maintained a constant temperature of 75 degrees. Your opinion on this
              set up controlling the higher temps created by using a turbo 24 or 48
              yeast.
              Chuck
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206"
              <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi BILL1BURP,
              > Your 78 F is 22 C. and is good and OK for fermenting wine.
              But
              > turbo is different and acts to the extremes. The very act and speed
              > of the conversion of the sugar turning to alcohol then turning to
              Co2
              > will have quite a few wanted and unwanted side effects. A bit like
              > when you rub your hands together in cold weather they warm up with
              > the friction which increases the blood flow to that area and makes
              > you warmer, that's a wanted side effect.
              > The same thing is happening to your yeast and sugar doing all
              > that converting, cavorting and reproducing. And that, as we all
              know
              > creates heat. Anyway moving swiftly along, the ambient room
              > temperature needs to be lowered. So move the lot into the cellar,
              > garage or somewhere cooler than the nice convenient place you have
              it
              > residing, this animal you are breeding is not wine.
              > It'll still heat up in the cooler atmosphere but the outside of
              your
              > fermenter should disperse the heat build up in the cooler air.
              > Now that should work OK for 25litres/5gallons but the bigger
              the
              > quantity the more heat you will have to loose exponentially. For
              > example 10 gallons you need to loose 4 times plus as much heat.
              > Let me try to give you a simple example how this heat thing
              can
              > grow out of all control:-
              > A paving slab 2ft. x 2ft. = 4sq. feet.
              > You would logically think to get twice the area you would double up
              > the paving slab side measurements to 4ft. x 4ft. = 16sq. feet. This
              > is 4 times the area you will end up with
              > Now we are dealing with heat and volume in three dimensions
              > which is more than the power of two and way beyond my
              capabilities.
              > But we have the people here on this forum, who do know how to
              > calculate this lot, so step up guys?
              > The upshot of all this is, keep your fermenting turbo washes
              in
              > manageable batches that you can distil in a reasonable time span
              > Geoff
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Miller" <bill1burp@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this
              morning
              > with
              > > turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have been
              > > keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is rising. It
              > is
              > > now up to 86 degrees.
              > >
              > > Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the
              temp
              > go
              > > before I get worried?
              > >
              > > The best for last
              > > BILL1BURP
              > >
              >
            • burrows206
              Hi Chuck, It s a bit difficult to visualize the set up you are proposing. Your temperature has stabilized out at 75 degrees so the problem seems to have solved
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 4 11:10 PM
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                Hi Chuck,
                It's a bit difficult to visualize the set up you are proposing.
                Your temperature has stabilized out at 75 degrees so the problem
                seems to have solved itself. The only other conditions that I can
                see the turbo heating up and being enough of a problem to the yeast
                and cause adverse side effects is, that you may be making a lot
                bigger batch than is normal for personal consumption, or you live in
                a hot climate and are at present in your cooler winter period and are
                worried about the summer heat.
                Either way you are dealing with a heat transfer problem. The ¼"
                copper coil condensers that just drop into the top of a reflux still
                column would cool your turbo but maybe too much. If this were the
                case, you would have to incorporate some kind of electric temperature
                control device for the cooling water in the coil or switching it on
                or off to maintain an ideal ferment temperature
                It's Starting to get complicated now and I don't do complicated
                if I can get away with it. Use the KISS principle and move it to a
                cooler place. Down under ground were the temperature is cooler and
                more stable
                geoff


                Hi Chuck,
                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chevisn7" <chevisn7@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I am also doing my first batch and was worried about the control of
                > heat. I read an article about using a double insulated container
                > where by the mash being fermented is placed in a tub filled with
                > water. This tub has a aquarium heater in it set to 75 degrees. This
                > tub is set inside another tub again filled with water but in the
                > second tub cool water is allowed to trickle in at a slow but steady
                > rate and flow out of a hose placed near the top. The combination
                will
                > in theory control both cold and hot temperatures. So far my mix
                has
                > maintained a constant temperature of 75 degrees. Your opinion on
                this
                > set up controlling the higher temps created by using a turbo 24 or
                48
                > yeast.
                > Chuck
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206"
                > <jeffrey.burrows@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi BILL1BURP,
                > > Your 78 F is 22 C. and is good and OK for fermenting wine.
                > But
                > > turbo is different and acts to the extremes. The very act and
                speed
                > > of the conversion of the sugar turning to alcohol then turning to
                > Co2
                > > will have quite a few wanted and unwanted side effects. A bit
                like
                > > when you rub your hands together in cold weather they warm up
                with
                > > the friction which increases the blood flow to that area and
                makes
                > > you warmer, that's a wanted side effect.
                > > The same thing is happening to your yeast and sugar doing
                all
                > > that converting, cavorting and reproducing. And that, as we all
                > know
                > > creates heat. Anyway moving swiftly along, the ambient room
                > > temperature needs to be lowered. So move the lot into the cellar,
                > > garage or somewhere cooler than the nice convenient place you
                have
                > it
                > > residing, this animal you are breeding is not wine.
                > > It'll still heat up in the cooler atmosphere but the outside of
                > your
                > > fermenter should disperse the heat build up in the cooler air.
                > > Now that should work OK for 25litres/5gallons but the bigger
                > the
                > > quantity the more heat you will have to loose exponentially. For
                > > example 10 gallons you need to loose 4 times plus as much heat.
                > > Let me try to give you a simple example how this heat thing
                > can
                > > grow out of all control:-
                > > A paving slab 2ft. x 2ft. = 4sq. feet.
                > > You would logically think to get twice the area you would double
                up
                > > the paving slab side measurements to 4ft. x 4ft. = 16sq. feet.
                This
                > > is 4 times the area you will end up with
                > > Now we are dealing with heat and volume in three dimensions
                > > which is more than the power of two and way beyond my
                > capabilities.
                > > But we have the people here on this forum, who do know how to
                > > calculate this lot, so step up guys?
                > > The upshot of all this is, keep your fermenting turbo washes
                > in
                > > manageable batches that you can distil in a reasonable time span
                > > Geoff
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Miller" <bill1burp@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this
                > morning
                > > with
                > > > turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have
                been
                > > > keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is rising.
                It
                > > is
                > > > now up to 86 degrees.
                > > >
                > > > Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the
                > temp
                > > go
                > > > before I get worried?
                > > >
                > > > The best for last
                > > > BILL1BURP
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • chevisn7
                Geoff;Thanks for the reply. My rig is basicially three buckets. One placed inside the other and each one a little larger than the other. The outer two are
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 5 5:08 AM
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                  Geoff;Thanks for the reply. My rig is basicially three buckets. One
                  placed inside the other and each one a little larger than the other.
                  The outer two are filled with water. The inside bucket is the mash.
                  The second bucket has a heater to heat the water surrounding the mash
                  in case it gets cold. The third is a cooler. It has circulating cool
                  water to cool the water in the second bucket in case it gets to warm
                  from the heat of the mash. The heater in the second bucket controls
                  the heat and temp of the mash bucket. So far it seems to work pretty
                  good. The batch I am currently making is 6 gallons and the heat seems
                  to be under control. I am one of the lucky ones here in Florida as I
                  have a basement. Thats a story in itself. The temp in the basement is
                  pretty steady around 75 degrees most of the year even when it is
                  Toasty outside. Its in the winter where we have problems. The daily
                  temps can change as much as 40 degrees. Right now it goes from the
                  mid 40s at night to around 78 during the day. Ill give my rig a try
                  over the next few months and if successful at controling the heat
                  generated by different types of yeasts Ill let everyone know. Your
                  suggestion on using the cooling coil out of my condenser has got me
                  pondering a few ideas. But I still have to deal with the cold at
                  night. Ill let you know if I come up with anything.
                  Chuck
                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206"
                  <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Chuck,
                  > It's a bit difficult to visualize the set up you are
                  proposing.
                  > Your temperature has stabilized out at 75 degrees so the problem
                  > seems to have solved itself. The only other conditions that I can
                  > see the turbo heating up and being enough of a problem to the yeast
                  > and cause adverse side effects is, that you may be making a lot
                  > bigger batch than is normal for personal consumption, or you live
                  in
                  > a hot climate and are at present in your cooler winter period and
                  are
                  > worried about the summer heat.
                  > Either way you are dealing with a heat transfer problem. The
                  ¼"
                  > copper coil condensers that just drop into the top of a reflux
                  still
                  > column would cool your turbo but maybe too much. If this were the
                  > case, you would have to incorporate some kind of electric
                  temperature
                  > control device for the cooling water in the coil or switching it on
                  > or off to maintain an ideal ferment temperature
                  > It's Starting to get complicated now and I don't do
                  complicated
                  > if I can get away with it. Use the KISS principle and move it to a
                  > cooler place. Down under ground were the temperature is cooler
                  and
                  > more stable
                  > geoff
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Chuck,
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chevisn7" <chevisn7@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I am also doing my first batch and was worried about the control
                  of
                  > > heat. I read an article about using a double insulated container
                  > > where by the mash being fermented is placed in a tub filled with
                  > > water. This tub has a aquarium heater in it set to 75 degrees.
                  This
                  > > tub is set inside another tub again filled with water but in the
                  > > second tub cool water is allowed to trickle in at a slow but
                  steady
                  > > rate and flow out of a hose placed near the top. The combination
                  > will
                  > > in theory control both cold and hot temperatures. So far my mix
                  > has
                  > > maintained a constant temperature of 75 degrees. Your opinion on
                  > this
                  > > set up controlling the higher temps created by using a turbo 24
                  or
                  > 48
                  > > yeast.
                  > > Chuck
                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206"
                  > > <jeffrey.burrows@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi BILL1BURP,
                  > > > Your 78 F is 22 C. and is good and OK for fermenting
                  wine.
                  > > But
                  > > > turbo is different and acts to the extremes. The very act and
                  > speed
                  > > > of the conversion of the sugar turning to alcohol then turning
                  to
                  > > Co2
                  > > > will have quite a few wanted and unwanted side effects. A bit
                  > like
                  > > > when you rub your hands together in cold weather they warm up
                  > with
                  > > > the friction which increases the blood flow to that area and
                  > makes
                  > > > you warmer, that's a wanted side effect.
                  > > > The same thing is happening to your yeast and sugar doing
                  > all
                  > > > that converting, cavorting and reproducing. And that, as we
                  all
                  > > know
                  > > > creates heat. Anyway moving swiftly along, the ambient room
                  > > > temperature needs to be lowered. So move the lot into the
                  cellar,
                  > > > garage or somewhere cooler than the nice convenient place you
                  > have
                  > > it
                  > > > residing, this animal you are breeding is not wine.
                  > > > It'll still heat up in the cooler atmosphere but the outside of
                  > > your
                  > > > fermenter should disperse the heat build up in the cooler air.
                  > > > Now that should work OK for 25litres/5gallons but the
                  bigger
                  > > the
                  > > > quantity the more heat you will have to loose exponentially.
                  For
                  > > > example 10 gallons you need to loose 4 times plus as much
                  heat.
                  > > > Let me try to give you a simple example how this heat
                  thing
                  > > can
                  > > > grow out of all control:-
                  > > > A paving slab 2ft. x 2ft. = 4sq. feet.
                  > > > You would logically think to get twice the area you would
                  double
                  > up
                  > > > the paving slab side measurements to 4ft. x 4ft. = 16sq. feet.
                  > This
                  > > > is 4 times the area you will end up with
                  > > > Now we are dealing with heat and volume in three
                  dimensions
                  > > > which is more than the power of two and way beyond my
                  > > capabilities.
                  > > > But we have the people here on this forum, who do know how to
                  > > > calculate this lot, so step up guys?
                  > > > The upshot of all this is, keep your fermenting turbo
                  washes
                  > > in
                  > > > manageable batches that you can distil in a reasonable time span
                  > > > Geoff
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Miller"
                  <bill1burp@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > My heat in the house is 72 degrees. I started my wash this
                  > > morning
                  > > > with
                  > > > > turbo 24, 14 pounds of sugar and 6 gallons of water. I have
                  > been
                  > > > > keeping an eye on the temp of my wash bucket and it is
                  rising.
                  > It
                  > > > is
                  > > > > now up to 86 degrees.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Is this reaction suppose to happen? How high should I let the
                  > > temp
                  > > > go
                  > > > > before I get worried?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The best for last
                  > > > > BILL1BURP
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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