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Re: [new_distillers] Re: stills

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  • sonum norbu
    What can I say? :)))) Well argued and you ve convinced me that there is very little between electricity and propane. blanik ... Most of the troubles of the
    Message 1 of 40 , Dec 6, 2007
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      What can I say? :))))

      Well argued and you've convinced me that there is very little between electricity and propane.


      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: sn_cur <sn_cur@...>
      > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: stills
      > Date: Fri, 07 Dec:13:51 -0000
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Jeff
      > > Same here in Oz - the land of milk and honey, now that Bonsai has
      > > gone. blanik
      > >
      > Good riddance to him. Well and truly overstayed his welcome.
      > But back to the subject at hand, propane v. electricity:
      > Folks, don't know where you get the idea electricity isn't capable
      > of very fine adjustment, it
      > is at least as fine and accurate as propane, if you have a good
      > controller. A zero switching
      > circuit (aka a burst fire module) can move in steps of 1% (in a
      > 50Hz supply), and I doubt
      > any standard control valves for propane could do better than that.
      > A phase switching
      > circuit like Pinto's can adjust output to an almost arbitrarily
      > fine resolution, way finer than
      > propane.
      > Electric heat is also VERY stable, it doesn't surge (again, given a
      > good controller, not the
      > standard controllers found in stoves or room heaters). Propane is
      > subject to wind and
      > breezes, and seeing as you need to use it outside, or at least in a
      > well vented space, that is
      > always a potential problem, though a wind shield can usually fix
      > this. Also, as mentioned,
      > if you don't have a regulator than the pressure changes in a
      > propane tank mean the
      > occasional adjustment is necessary, not that this is a big problem.
      > Once I set the burst-fire
      > controller on my still for a run it is rock solid and I never have
      > to adjust it.
      > The flame from propane also makes it harder to insulate the boiler,
      > so electric heating is
      > probably a fair bit more efficient (in a well insulated boiler).
      > The response time of modern electric elements is only a bit slower
      > than propane, and it
      > isn't particularly relevant for our purposes as we don't change the
      > heat setting often
      > during a run, if at all, and anyway we don't need an ultra fast response.
      > True, you do have to make sure the element is always covered with
      > liquid, but that is not
      > hard to do, and you don't have the worries of a naked flame, or
      > damaging the bottom of
      > the boiler if it runs dry (even stainless steel doesn't last forever).
      > Propane does have the advantage of being able to do small batches,
      > my 50 litre keg boiler
      > needs a minimum of about 11-12 litres liquid to safely cover the
      > element. But that doesn't
      > mean much more than I might have to dilute a small charge a bit
      > with water. No big deal.
      > Don't agree there is less overall risk of explosion/fire with
      > propane, as it has the naked
      > flame issue (and a bottle of propane nearby as extra bomb fuel if
      > there is an explosion/
      > fire). Electric elements also don't put out CO2 and CO into your
      > stilling area. But elements
      > do have the risk of electrocution (mixing electricity and liquid
      > always needs to be handled
      > carefully).
      > Propane can reduce the risk of scorching if used properly, but you
      > still need to clear the
      > wash well, as heating yeast (whether with electricity or propane)
      > splits it open and releases
      > unwanted flavours. Using a low density element seriously reduces
      > the risk of scorching.
      > And you can always filter out the solids from the wash first.
      > Depending on the set-up, propane usually gives a shorter boil up
      > time, but I don't think
      > that is a huge advantage for hobby distillers. I can boil up 40
      > litres of water in about 75
      > minutes with my 2400 w element, not exactly a long time, and just
      > about the right amount
      > of time to set everything else up (column, coolant supply, etc).
      > Propane does work during power outages, but it can also run out if
      > you forget to keep
      > your tanks filled, besides which modern electric power grids don't
      > go down that often, and
      > rarely for very long.
      > Electricity is more easily available, I can plug in at any house,
      > anytime. Propane can only be
      > obtained from a limited number of locations, and not anytime.
      > I don't know what any cost difference might be, that probably
      > varies a fair bit from place
      > to place. But I only still once or twice a month, so it doesn't
      > really matter to me, and
      > electricity is pretty cheap in my area anyway.
      > I am not arguing for or against either of them. Both have their
      > pros and cons, and work
      > well and safely when used properly. Six of one, half a dozen of the
      > other. Given my
      > particular circumstances, I just find electricity more convenient.
      > But it is not necessarily
      > the best option for everyone. The choice boils down to what is best
      > for your particular
      > circumstances, and personal preference.
      > "The point I was trying to make is that using a naked flame to
      > check for etho leaks doesn't
      > seem all that sensible to me."
      > Fair point, no argument there.
      > [End Rant]
      > Cheers
      > sn


      "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)


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    • jamesonbeam1
      PS. Heres a nice little calculator for figuring out the length of condenser needed for your exact requirements from Home Distillers..
      Message 40 of 40 , Jan 15, 2008
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        PS. Heres a nice little calculator for figuring out the length of
        condenser needed for your exact requirements from Home Distillers..


        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, arthur doremus <sumerod04@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Jim,
        > > Thanks for the info. Finally got the time and all the parts.
        > Using a 16 qt (15.14 L) SS pot, 1/2 OD flexible copper pipe and
        > compression fittings. I have 6 gal of wash (cider and raisins), so
        > doing two 3 gal runs, and depending on how it works, probably a run
        > using the distilate from the first two. I plan on the tubing
        > verticle from the pot about 10-12" then up at 30 degrees for about
        > feet (to get some reflux) then drop to the condenser. Question is-
        > how long a run should I use for the condenser coil? With the
        > material I have, I was planning about 60" in a 7"-8" dia. coil.
        > much? too little? I'd appreciate your suggestions.
        > > Art
        > > jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
        > > Hi Art,
        > > Welcome to the wonderful, exciting , thrilling - sometimes
        > chilling world of distilling.
        > > Above all, do not - repeat DO NOT try the ice water / bath /
        > approach. I wasted a month on that damn thing. After getting my
        > chit together, I went an made me a simple, simple pot still from
        > household equipment, and it still works to this day.
        > > The most simplest design to start with is something like this:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Some short cuts i have found is using old 5/8" pieces of garden
        > hose to make flexible couplings. (fits perfectly around 1/2"
        > pipe for air tight fit.
        > > Also if your to lazy to make a coiled "worm" for you condenser,
        > just get an old 5 - 6 gallon beer cooler and drill a 1/2" hole at
        > bottom and 1/2" hole at top. Then run a straight through "shotgun"
        > 1/2" copper pipe through from top to bottom and seal with plummers
        > putty. Fill with Ice Water every so often - and volia - a
        > condenser...
        > > Just dont make the same mistake I made mon ami.
        > > PS> an old trick i learned from making apple jack is to put it
        > first in 1 gallon jugs and freeze it. Then turn them upside down
        > a can till ice is clear. This makes your must / wort about twice
        > strong - then distill :):):).
        > >
        > > Vino es Veritas and Good Luck,
        > > Jim.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sumerod04" <sumerod04@>
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I am a real newbie. Been making wine for about 5 years, ready
        > the
        > > > next level. Thought I would start with applejack. Have 23L
        > > > cider+raisins mash almost through the secondary fermentation. I
        > have
        > > > been reading, reading and READING. I plan to try the ice-water
        > wok
        > > > bucket still (the still that isn't a still) modified with a
        > funnel and
        > > > piping to an outside collector and heating element from
        > that
        > > > is supposed to hit 45-50C. It's simple and cheap but could take
        > 5
        > > > days. Supposedly, you can't separate out the methyl using this.
        > > > Amazingstill.com seems to indicate this isn't a problem. An
        > option
        > > > would be higher temperature allowing the alcohols to separate.
        > > > would it be smarter starting with a more traditional pot still.
        > At
        > > > this point I'm mainly interested in making applejack, maybe
        > schnappes
        > > > maybe rum. I would appreciate any advice.
        > > > Art
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
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        > Search.
        > >
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