Re: [new_distillers] Re: stills
- What can I say? :))))
Well argued and you've convinced me that there is very little between electricity and propane.
> ----- Original Message -----"Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)
> From: sn_cur <sn_cur@...>
> To: email@example.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] Re: stills
> Date: Fri, 07 Dec:13:51 -0000
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
> > Jeff
> > Same here in Oz - the land of milk and honey, now that Bonsai has
> > gone. blanik
> Good riddance to him. Well and truly overstayed his welcome.
> But back to the subject at hand, propane v. electricity:
> Folks, don't know where you get the idea electricity isn't capable
> of very fine adjustment, it
> is at least as fine and accurate as propane, if you have a good
> controller. A zero switching
> circuit (aka a burst fire module) can move in steps of 1% (in a
> 50Hz supply), and I doubt
> any standard control valves for propane could do better than that.
> A phase switching
> circuit like Pinto's can adjust output to an almost arbitrarily
> fine resolution, way finer than
> Electric heat is also VERY stable, it doesn't surge (again, given a
> good controller, not the
> standard controllers found in stoves or room heaters). Propane is
> subject to wind and
> breezes, and seeing as you need to use it outside, or at least in a
> well vented space, that is
> always a potential problem, though a wind shield can usually fix
> this. Also, as mentioned,
> if you don't have a regulator than the pressure changes in a
> propane tank mean the
> occasional adjustment is necessary, not that this is a big problem.
> Once I set the burst-fire
> controller on my still for a run it is rock solid and I never have
> to adjust it.
> The flame from propane also makes it harder to insulate the boiler,
> so electric heating is
> probably a fair bit more efficient (in a well insulated boiler).
> The response time of modern electric elements is only a bit slower
> than propane, and it
> isn't particularly relevant for our purposes as we don't change the
> heat setting often
> during a run, if at all, and anyway we don't need an ultra fast response.
> True, you do have to make sure the element is always covered with
> liquid, but that is not
> hard to do, and you don't have the worries of a naked flame, or
> damaging the bottom of
> the boiler if it runs dry (even stainless steel doesn't last forever).
> Propane does have the advantage of being able to do small batches,
> my 50 litre keg boiler
> needs a minimum of about 11-12 litres liquid to safely cover the
> element. But that doesn't
> mean much more than I might have to dilute a small charge a bit
> with water. No big deal.
> Don't agree there is less overall risk of explosion/fire with
> propane, as it has the naked
> flame issue (and a bottle of propane nearby as extra bomb fuel if
> there is an explosion/
> fire). Electric elements also don't put out CO2 and CO into your
> stilling area. But elements
> do have the risk of electrocution (mixing electricity and liquid
> always needs to be handled
> Propane can reduce the risk of scorching if used properly, but you
> still need to clear the
> wash well, as heating yeast (whether with electricity or propane)
> splits it open and releases
> unwanted flavours. Using a low density element seriously reduces
> the risk of scorching.
> And you can always filter out the solids from the wash first.
> Depending on the set-up, propane usually gives a shorter boil up
> time, but I don't think
> that is a huge advantage for hobby distillers. I can boil up 40
> litres of water in about 75
> minutes with my 2400 w element, not exactly a long time, and just
> about the right amount
> of time to set everything else up (column, coolant supply, etc).
> Propane does work during power outages, but it can also run out if
> you forget to keep
> your tanks filled, besides which modern electric power grids don't
> go down that often, and
> rarely for very long.
> Electricity is more easily available, I can plug in at any house,
> anytime. Propane can only be
> obtained from a limited number of locations, and not anytime.
> I don't know what any cost difference might be, that probably
> varies a fair bit from place
> to place. But I only still once or twice a month, so it doesn't
> really matter to me, and
> electricity is pretty cheap in my area anyway.
> I am not arguing for or against either of them. Both have their
> pros and cons, and work
> well and safely when used properly. Six of one, half a dozen of the
> other. Given my
> particular circumstances, I just find electricity more convenient.
> But it is not necessarily
> the best option for everyone. The choice boils down to what is best
> for your particular
> circumstances, and personal preference.
> "The point I was trying to make is that using a naked flame to
> check for etho leaks doesn't
> seem all that sensible to me."
> Fair point, no argument there.
> [End Rant]
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- PS. Heres a nice little calculator for figuring out the length of
condenser needed for your exact requirements from Home Distillers..
> --- In email@example.com, arthur doremus <sumerod04@>2
> > Hi Jim,
> > Thanks for the info. Finally got the time and all the parts.
> Using a 16 qt (15.14 L) SS pot, 1/2 OD flexible copper pipe and
> compression fittings. I have 6 gal of wash (cider and raisins), so
> doing two 3 gal runs, and depending on how it works, probably a run
> using the distilate from the first two. I plan on the tubing
> verticle from the pot about 10-12" then up at 30 degrees for about
> feet (to get some reflux) then drop to the condenser. Question is-Too
> how long a run should I use for the condenser coil? With the
> material I have, I was planning about 60" in a 7"-8" dia. coil.
> much? too little? I'd appreciate your suggestions.wok
> > Art
> > jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
> > Hi Art,
> > Welcome to the wonderful, exciting , thrilling - sometimes
> chilling world of distilling.
> > Above all, do not - repeat DO NOT try the ice water / bath /
> approach. I wasted a month on that damn thing. After getting mycopper
> chit together, I went an made me a simple, simple pot still from
> household equipment, and it still works to this day.
> > The most simplest design to start with is something like this:
> > Some short cuts i have found is using old 5/8" pieces of garden
> hose to make flexible couplings. (fits perfectly around 1/2"
> pipe for air tight fit.in
> > Also if your to lazy to make a coiled "worm" for you condenser,
> just get an old 5 - 6 gallon beer cooler and drill a 1/2" hole at
> bottom and 1/2" hole at top. Then run a straight through "shotgun"
> 1/2" copper pipe through from top to bottom and seal with plummers
> putty. Fill with Ice Water every so often - and volia - a
> > Just dont make the same mistake I made mon ami.
> > PS> an old trick i learned from making apple jack is to put it
> first in 1 gallon jugs and freeze it. Then turn them upside down
> a can till ice is clear. This makes your must / wort about twiceas
> strong - then distill :):):).for
> > Vino es Veritas and Good Luck,
> > Jim.
> > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "sumerod04" <sumerod04@>
> > >
> > > I am a real newbie. Been making wine for about 5 years, ready
> > > next level. Thought I would start with applejack. Have 23L
> > > cider+raisins mash almost through the secondary fermentation. I
> > > been reading, reading and READING. I plan to try the ice-water
> > > bucket still (the still that isn't a still) modified with a
> funnel and
> > > piping to an outside collector and heating element from
> > > is supposed to hit 45-50C. It's simple and cheap but could take
> > > days. Supposedly, you can't separate out the methyl using this.
> > > Amazingstill.com seems to indicate this isn't a problem. An
> > > would be higher temperature allowing the alcohols to separate.
> > > would it be smarter starting with a more traditional pot still.Yahoo!
> > > this point I'm mainly interested in making applejack, maybe
> > > maybe rum. I would appreciate any advice.
> > > Art
> > >
> > ---------------------------------
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