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Re: Home made turbo recipe - new to group

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  • David Dolata
    EVERY cost matters! Opening a distillery is a catch 22, one cannot legally admit to experimenting without going full blown with it. Production at some level
    Message 1 of 49 , Oct 31, 2007
      EVERY cost matters!
      Opening a distillery is a catch 22, one cannot legally admit to
      experimenting without going full blown with it. Production at some
      level must start 60 days after getting the permit. The way I
      understand it you cannot just get the permit and do R&D for years,
      they want that tax money from sales. The only product to start with
      is Vodka for obvious reasons if one wants imediate cash flow.

      Some of my tests are changing PH from 6.6 to 3.5 during the ferment
      so right now I am starting out on the high side aiming for 6 or over.
      Good bad or indifferent??

      The biggest cost is the white sugar. Second biggest expense is time
      which equates to volume of must=overhead. Then energy, then labor.

      My test batches are 7 gal each. R&D will use 275 gal totes. I don't
      know about produciton fermentation tanks but I know shallow is
      supposed to be better.

      Using turbo yeasts would mean $200 per batch for the yeast and
      nutrients which is too much for that portion. I'm sure I can do at
      least as good with some effort. Besides turbo yeasts sure don't taste
      good, enough said about the taste. I know with some effort I can
      product a fast must with good distiling characteristics. ie: not so
      many of the other alcohols, ets. making for a more economical
      distillation.

      Thanks again for your input.
      David



      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
      <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wow Dave,
      >
      > A small commercial distillery huh?
      >
      > What again are you planning on making??? If your setting up that,
      > then you surely could afford buying white sugar, brown sugar or
      > molasses (depending on price) and EC 1118 yeast (not bakers yeast)
      > in bulk, along with yeast nutrients, acid blend, and rice krispies,
      > etc.
      >
      > If you let me know the quantites of wash per batch your trying to
      > produce - then will try to give you the the amount percents for
      > ingredients.
      >
      > PH levels are no problem - wine makers shoot for a 3.5 to 4.0 PH
      > and whiskey makers shoot for 4.0 - 5.0, but if it gets too low,
      some
      > baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) will increase it. Just expect
      a .5
      > decrease in PH as the batch is feremnted (hope ya already know that
      > if your going this deep into distilling ;-).
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "David Dolata" <david@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Jim,
      > > Thanks for the rice crispies hint. I will definitely try it, any
      > idea
      > > on amounts?. Neutral is definitely what I am after. I do require
      > the
      > > speed for my need. I am in the midst of setting up a small
      > comercial
      > > distillery and right now going back and forth for my basic
      permit,
      > > not a fun or easy process. This is not just for my own needs. I
      > need
      > > speed and cheap for economic reasons, and free of as many of the
      > > other alcohols and byproducts as I can get while keeping the
      > speed. I
      > > am trying for speed first and intend to work backward from there.
      > You
      > > can probably help me with another question. Some of my PH's are
      > > getting down into the mid 3's but seem to work quite well. Any
      > > ramifications to that as long as the yeast is surviving?
      > Everything I
      > > read says to keep between 4 and 4.6, never lower than 4 but I
      > don't
      > > know exactly why except a claim of it killing the yeast.???
      > > Thanks again,
      > > David
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1"
      > > <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Ahhhhh Dave, Dave, Dave,-
      > > >
      > > > The Art of making a fine liquor/wine is in the quantities and
      > > > qualities of each ingredient that are combined in the
      > > > mash/wash/must/wort and how it is fermented... Then comes the
      > cuts
      > > > on the distallations... Then comes the Aging process...
      > > >
      > > > Try not to be so concerned about a super fast fermentation
      > process -
      > >
      > > > thats just the first step :-). Time is not of the essence
      here,
      > > Mon
      > > > Ami...
      > > >
      > > > Remember - it takes a week to ferment and years to age a good
      > > > liquor/wine....
      > > >
      > > > BTW, if you want to make a neutral tasting alcohol, use Rice
      > > Krispies
      > > > (read the ingredients listing sometimes), instead of Corn
      Flakes
      > > for
      > > > all them nutrients your looking for... As far as that dang
      > bakers
      > > > yeast - just use it for baking...,please.
      > > >
      > > > Vino es Veritas,
      > > > Jim.
      > > >
      > > > PS. Heres a nice site if you want to learn about Bakers yeast..
      > > > http://www.dakotayeast.com/yeast_production.html
      >
    • David
      Yes, you can substitute KOH, potassium hydroxide, (potash lye)(NOT regular sodium lye) which should be locally available as generic brand liquid drain cleaner.
      Message 49 of 49 , Dec 3, 2007
        Yes, you can substitute KOH, potassium hydroxide, (potash lye)(NOT
        regular sodium lye) which should be locally available as generic
        brand liquid drain cleaner. Please be careful with this stuff. I
        don't know the exact proportions, (a teaspoon per 15L?? depending on
        strength) but it will be similar, probably less??? Check the
        ingredients, there should be no sodium hydroxide and it should be
        nearly clear. For experimenting only, use lab grade KOH if you are
        going to drink it. Remember to adjust the final Ph to about 6.0 with
        citric acid before pitching the yeast. [This is a VERY strong base
        and will soapify your skin on contact.] I have also used potassium
        vitamin supplements but not exclusively and the amount required is so
        great that it won't be inexpensive (they usually come in 99mg pills)
        for large batches. Yeast needs for K are on the order of 4500mg per
        15 liter, that's a lot and is equivalent of one cup normal molasses
        or 1/2 half cup blackstrap molasses. Molasses is loaded with K.

        I must warn you that the acid should be added to the sugar solution
        first and then the potassium. (especially if you already added the
        DAP first by mistake). You can make small adjustments either way when
        the PH is closer to 6PH. Kind of a catch 22 I know.

        I'm sure I will be chastised for suggesting drain cleaner. But it is
        a convenient economical source of K for testing purposes only cause
        we don't know what else may be in it.

        David

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, RAY HARRISON <rahar2005@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi David,
        >
        > I have downloaded your recipe and ready to give it a go. I have
        all the ingredients apart from the potassium carbonate-seems that no
        one seems to stock this locally.
        > Does it go by any other name (i,e. a commercial or generic name)
        > If I cant find it do you think I could subsitute something else?
        > If so what would you recommend?
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        > Ray H
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > David <david@...> wrote:
        > Thank you to everyone!
        >
        > If you followed this thread last month, here are the results. I
        have
        > posted my final recipe in the files section here...
        >
        > files
        > All Distillers Recipes
        > Reflux Still Recipes
        > Wash Recipes
        > Sugar wash's
        > david
        > turbo.txt
        >
        > I tried everything I could scrounge up on the web finding every
        last
        > amino acid and trace mineral and 'secrets' only to come full circle
        > to a very basic formula. I would very much like anyone with the
        > ability to try it and report back with their individual results. My
        > original goal was a clean good tasting wash that would produce the
        > least amount of byproducts possible for a neutral spirit wash, and
        to
        > do it at least as fast as commercial turbo's. IMHO I have achieved
        > these goals.
        >
        > Thanks again, David
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
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