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Condenser Question

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  • dreamofgilgamesh
    Dear Group, still trying to get everything sorted for my new 2 Mini-Still and i have another question for you. I have 20ft of 1/4 copper tube for the
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 8, 2007
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      Dear Group, still trying to get everything sorted for my new 2"
      Mini-Still and i have another question for you.
      I have 20ft of 1/4" copper tube for the condenser. Is it more
      efficient to make 1 long single coil or a shorter double coil?

      Many Thanks
    • Harry
      ... Broadly speaking, a double helix coil would be more efficient when compared to a single coil. Why? The double coil forms what is known as a multi-pass
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 8, 2007
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "dreamofgilgamesh"
        <dreamofgilgamesh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Group, still trying to get everything sorted for my new 2"
        > Mini-Still and i have another question for you.
        > I have 20ft of 1/4" copper tube for the condenser. Is it more
        > efficient to make 1 long single coil or a shorter double coil?
        >
        > Many Thanks
        >


        Broadly speaking, a double helix coil would be more efficient when
        compared to a single coil. Why? The double coil forms what is
        known as a "multi-pass" condenser configuration. This is where one
        of the fluids (in this case the water or coolant), traverses the
        length of the other fluid stream (the vapour) more than once. Thus
        the contact time between fluids (or to be precise, the heat-transfer
        interface contact) is increased. There is more opportunity for the
        heat to be transferred from hot fluid to cool fluid.

        Of course this is a simple explanation, but sufficient for our small
        needs. The true picture is one of vast complexity. Volumes have
        been written about heat transfer, fluid dynamics and heat exchanger
        design. It is a science in its own right.

        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • sonum norbu
        ... Interesting post Harry. I ve often wondered why double helix coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving space. :) I bought my old pot
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 8, 2007
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          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Harry <gnikomson2000@...>
          > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Condenser Question
          > Date: Wed, 08 Aug:50:57 -0000
          >
          >
          Interesting post Harry. I've often wondered why double helix coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving space. :)

          I bought my old pot still and assessories - for an outrageous price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375 inch tube coiled about ten inches diameter, making eight coils in a five gallon bucket of water.

          Would it make a great difference if it were converted into a smaller diameter double helix condenser?

          dawg






          > Broadly speaking, a double helix coil would be more efficient when
          > compared to a single coil. Why? The double coil forms what is
          > known as a "multi-pass" condenser configuration. This is where one
          > of the fluids (in this case the water or coolant), traverses the
          > length of the other fluid stream (the vapour) more than once. Thus
          > the contact time between fluids (or to be precise, the heat-transfer
          > interface contact) is increased. There is more opportunity for the
          > heat to be transferred from hot fluid to cool fluid.
          >
          > Of course this is a simple explanation, but sufficient for our small
          > needs. The true picture is one of vast complexity. Volumes have
          > been written about heat transfer, fluid dynamics and heat exchanger
          > design. It is a science in its own right.
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry

          >



          "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

          SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
          http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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        • Harry
          ... coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving space. :) ... price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375 inch tube
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 8, 2007
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...>
            wrote:

            > Interesting post Harry. I've often wondered why double helix
            coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving
            space. :)
            >
            > I bought my old pot still and assessories - for an outrageous
            price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375
            inch tube coiled about ten inches diameter, making eight coils in a
            five gallon bucket of water.
            >
            > Would it make a great difference if it were converted into a
            smaller diameter double helix condenser?
            >
            > dawg



            Not really. You'd still have the same amount of heat transfer
            surface (the tubing), just compressed into a smaller space.
            Therefore heat dissipation would be the same. A worm in a tub is
            fine for your setup. BTU's in = BTU's out. There's nothing magic
            about it. And, if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. :)


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • sonum norbu
            Thanks Harry. :)) ... Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings . (Shakyamuni Buddha) SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 9, 2007
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              Thanks Harry. :))


              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Harry <gnikomson2000@...>
              > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Condenser Question
              > Date: Thu, 09 Aug:28:49 -0000
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Interesting post Harry. I've often wondered why double helix
              > coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving
              > space. :)
              > >
              > > I bought my old pot still and assessories - for an outrageous
              > price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375
              > inch tube coiled about ten inches diameter, making eight coils in a
              > five gallon bucket of water.
              > >
              > > Would it make a great difference if it were converted into a
              > smaller diameter double helix condenser?
              > >
              > > dawg
              >
              >
              >
              > Not really. You'd still have the same amount of heat transfer
              > surface (the tubing), just compressed into a smaller space.
              > Therefore heat dissipation would be the same. A worm in a tub is
              > fine for your setup. BTU's in = BTU's out. There's nothing magic
              > about it. And, if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. :)
              >
              >
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry

              >



              "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

              SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
              http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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            • dreamofgilgamesh
              Thanks very much for your answers chaps, i ll go with the double coil then Best Wishes
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 9, 2007
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                Thanks very much for your answers chaps, i'll go with the double coil then

                Best Wishes
              • duds2u
                Gravity has to have it s way in a worm condenser and have a continuous gradual downhill run to the output. If you make a double helix for the worm, half the
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 9, 2007
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                  Gravity has to have it's way in a worm condenser and have a
                  continuous gradual downhill run to the output.
                  If you make a double helix for the worm, half the direction of flow
                  will be uphill and liquid doesn't like flowiing uphill of it's own
                  accord.
                  You would end up with a pool of liquid at the bottom of the double
                  helix that will block any flow. Eventually you will pressurise the
                  pot and it will forcibly blow the condensed alcohol out the end of
                  your condenser. If you happen to have a flame anywhere near the
                  output you could end up with a flamethrower.
                  Cheers
                  Mal T.

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Interesting post Harry. I've often wondered why double helix
                  > coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving
                  > space. :)
                  > >
                  > > I bought my old pot still and assessories - for an outrageous
                  > price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375
                  > inch tube coiled about ten inches diameter, making eight coils in a
                  > five gallon bucket of water.
                  > >
                  > > Would it make a great difference if it were converted into a
                  > smaller diameter double helix condenser?
                  > >
                  > > dawg
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Not really. You'd still have the same amount of heat transfer
                  > surface (the tubing), just compressed into a smaller space.
                  > Therefore heat dissipation would be the same. A worm in a tub is
                  > fine for your setup. BTU's in = BTU's out. There's nothing magic
                  > about it. And, if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. :)
                  >
                  >
                  > Slainte!
                  > regards Harry
                  >
                • sonum norbu
                  Yairs, this is what always worried me about a double helix. A pressure vessel is something I just do not want. As the still has worked OK for many years now,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 9, 2007
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                    Yairs, this is what always worried me about a double helix. A pressure vessel is something I just do not want. As the still has worked OK for many years now, I'll stick to Harry's advice and leave well enough alone. :)))





                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: duds2u <taylormc@...>
                    > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Condenser Question
                    > Date: Thu, 09 Aug:33:07 -0000
                    >
                    >
                    > Gravity has to have it's way in a worm condenser and have a
                    > continuous gradual downhill run to the output.
                    > If you make a double helix for the worm, half the direction of flow
                    > will be uphill and liquid doesn't like flowiing uphill of it's own
                    > accord.
                    > You would end up with a pool of liquid at the bottom of the double
                    > helix that will block any flow. Eventually you will pressurise the
                    > pot and it will forcibly blow the condensed alcohol out the end of
                    > your condenser. If you happen to have a flame anywhere near the
                    > output you could end up with a flamethrower.
                    > Cheers
                    > Mal T.
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Interesting post Harry. I've often wondered why double helix
                    > > coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving
                    > > space. :)
                    > > > > I bought my old pot still and assessories - for an outrageous
                    > > price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375
                    > > inch tube coiled about ten inches diameter, making eight coils in
                    > > a five gallon bucket of water. > > Would it make a great
                    > > difference if it were converted into a smaller diameter double
                    > > helix condenser?
                    > > > > dawg
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Not really. You'd still have the same amount of heat transfer
                    > > surface (the tubing), just compressed into a smaller space.
                    > > Therefore heat dissipation would be the same. A worm in a tub is
                    > > fine for your setup. BTU's in = BTU's out. There's nothing
                    > > magic about it. And, if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. :)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Slainte!
                    > > regards Harry
                    > >

                    >



                    "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                    SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                    http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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                  • tim smith
                    thanks harry....thanks blanik... rolls eyes sonum norbu wrote: Thanks Harry. :)) ... Most of the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 9, 2007
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                      thanks harry....thanks  blanik..."rolls eyes"

                      sonum norbu <blanik@...> wrote:
                      Thanks Harry. :))

                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Harry <gnikomson2000@ yahoo.com>
                      > To: new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Condenser Question
                      > Date: Thu, 09 Aug:28:49 -0000
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > Interesting post Harry. I've often wondered why double helix
                      > coils were used. I thought it was simply a method of saving
                      > space. :)
                      > >
                      > > I bought my old pot still and assessories - for an outrageous
                      > price, I now realize - and the condenser is sixteen feet of 0.375
                      > inch tube coiled about ten inches diameter, making eight coils in a
                      > five gallon bucket of water.
                      > >
                      > > Would it make a great difference if it were converted into a
                      > smaller diameter double helix condenser?
                      > >
                      > > dawg
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Not really. You'd still have the same amount of heat transfer
                      > surface (the tubing), just compressed into a smaller space.
                      > Therefore heat dissipation would be the same. A worm in a tub is
                      > fine for your setup. BTU's in = BTU's out. There's nothing magic
                      > about it. And, if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. :)
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry

                      >

                      "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                      SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                      http://www.angelfir e.com/fl2/ cloudbase/

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                      Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
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