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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Plastic jacketed condensers

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  • dearknarl
    Thanks Trid and Harry, I already figured that the condensing power was plenty with that many pipes, and the summated cross sectional area is equivalent to at
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 5, 2007
      Thanks Trid and Harry,

      I already figured that the condensing power was plenty with that many
      pipes, and the summated cross sectional area is equivalent to at least
      a 20mm ID pipe which wouldn't flood, but I was actually concerned
      about the surface tention of the liquid causing flooding or
      spluttering becasue of the smaller diameter pipes. What is the typical
      tube size that people use for shotgun/gattling gun condensers?

      Cheers,
      knarl.

      On 7/6/07, Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> , "Trid" <triddlywinks@...>
      > wrote:
      > I would pretty much guarantee that with 21 tubes, if your
      > > length is 12" or greater you have no risk of that as long as coolant
      > > is flowing through the jacket.
      > >
      > > Trid
      >
      >
      >
      > I'll vouch for that. I use a crossflow (multi-tube) condenser as a
      > reflux total condenser on top of the column. It's got 19 tubes @ 6mm x
      > 140mm ( 1/4" x 5 1/2" ) and it can handle 2000w with ease, at a 6
      > litre/minute water flow.
      >
      > The same configuration with the water & vapour reversed as in gatling
      > gun style (which is what you're referring to) would handle similar but
      > slightly less power input, due to laminar non-turbulent vapour flow in
      > the tubes as opposed to rightangle impinging (it's an efficiency thing,
      > way too complicated to easily explain).
      >
      > Double the overall length to 12" as Trid suggests and it would
      > potentially handle about 3 to 3.5kW, depending on water flow rate. The
      > harder the power push, the more margin for inefficiencies you have to
      > design in. Suffice to say, 21 tubes @ 6mm x 300mm ( 1/4" x 12" ) in a
      > gatling gun or multi-tube liebig configuration will condense just about
      > anything you can produce from a 2" or even 3" column.
      >
      > This is the type of final product condenser used in modern eau-de-vie
      > stills such as Christian Carl & Holstein. The black arrow indicates the
      > final condenser below...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Slainte!
      > regards Harry
      >
      >
    • Harry
      ... , dearknarl ... Well I don t know what the typical size is that people use, but I can tell you the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 5, 2007

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, dearknarl <dearknarl@...> wrote:

        >
        > Thanks Trid and Harry,
        >
        > I already figured that the condensing power was plenty with that many
        > pipes, and the summated cross sectional area is equivalent to at least
        > a 20mm ID pipe which wouldn't flood, but I was actually concerned
        > about the surface tention of the liquid causing flooding or
        > spluttering becasue of the smaller diameter pipes. What is the typical
        > tube size that people use for shotgun/gattling gun condensers?
        >
        > Cheers,
        > knarl.

         

        Well I don't know what the typical size is that people use, but I can tell you the correct size...6mm OD tube.

        Reasons?  6mm tube is actually 6.35mm OD and 4.53mm ID with a 0.91mm wall thickness.  This 4.53mm inner diameter is the perfect size for liquid droplets to form and travel.  If you go much larger in bore size, you risk getting 'blow-by' of uncondensed vapours because the cooling effect reduces rapidly once you get past 2mm from the condensing surface ( the tube wall ).  Thus a 4.53mm bore is right for bigger (relatively) liquid droplets and almost perfect to eradicate blow-by. 

        There won't be (or shouldn't be) any vapour pressure forcing the liquid out of the tubes because as you have already discovered, the combined area of 21 tubes is quite large.

        Area of a circle is Pi times radius squared ( ð r² ).

        3.1416 x (½ x 4.53)² = 16 sq.mm

        By 21 tubes = 16 x 21 = 336 sq.mm

        That's about equal to a single 22mm OD tube with a 0.91 wall.

        Because the condenser is in a vertical or 45° downward configuration, gravity should take care of any surface tension of the liquid in the tube bores.  If in doubt, test it with a cup of water poured in the top end vapour side.  You'll see it readily runs through.

        Slainte!
        regards Harry

      • dearknarl
        Harry, The more I think about it, the less I think the tubes would get flooded. Even at 80ml per min condensate, that s less than 4ml per min for each tube,
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 5, 2007
          Harry,

          The more I think about it, the less I think the tubes would get
          flooded. Even at 80ml per min condensate, that's less than 4ml per min
          for each tube, and at a guess that's one or two drips per second,
          which would only be a trickle on the inside of the tubes - nothing
          that's going to stop rising vapor.

          Cheers,
          knarl.

          On 7/6/07, Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com> , dearknarl <dearknarl@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks Trid and Harry,
          > >
          > > I already figured that the condensing power was plenty with that many
          > > pipes, and the summated cross sectional area is equivalent to at least
          > > a 20mm ID pipe which wouldn't flood, but I was actually concerned
          > > about the surface tention of the liquid causing flooding or
          > > spluttering becasue of the smaller diameter pipes. What is the typical
          > > tube size that people use for shotgun/gattling gun condensers?
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > knarl.
          >
          >
          >
          > Well I don't know what the typical size is that people use, but I can
          > tell you the correct size...6mm OD tube.
          >
          > Reasons? 6mm tube is actually 6.35mm OD and 4.53mm ID with a 0.91mm
          > wall thickness. This 4.53mm inner diameter is the perfect size for
          > liquid droplets to form and travel. If you go much larger in bore size,
          > you risk getting 'blow-by' of uncondensed vapours because the cooling
          > effect reduces rapidly once you get past 2mm from the condensing surface
          > ( the tube wall ). Thus a 4.53mm bore is right for bigger (relatively)
          > liquid droplets and almost perfect to eradicate blow-by.
          >
          > There won't be (or shouldn't be) any vapour pressure forcing the liquid
          > out of the tubes because as you have already discovered, the combined
          > area of 21 tubes is quite large.
          >
          > Area of a circle is Pi times radius squared ( ð r² ).
          >
          > 3.1416 x (½ x 4.53)² = 16 sq.mm
          >
          > By 21 tubes = 16 x 21 = 336 sq.mm
          >
          > That's about equal to a single 22mm OD tube with a 0.91 wall.
          >
          > Because the condenser is in a vertical or 45° downward configuration,
          > gravity should take care of any surface tension of the liquid in the
          > tube bores. If in doubt, test it with a cup of water poured in the top
          > end vapour side. You'll see it readily runs through.
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          >
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