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Re: Spinning band distillation.

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  • Harry
    ... not ... metal ... the ... This ... Interesting concept. But I don t see any advantages over a well- packed column. In my mind s eye I see most of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 3, 2007
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      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Has this been discussed before?
      > I did a quick search and didn't turn up anything
      > Cheers
      >
      >
      >
      > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      >
      > Spinning band distillation.
      >
      > Spinning band distillation is a technique used to separate liquid
      > mixtures which are similar in boiling points. When liquids with
      > similar boiling points are distilled, the vapors are mixtures, and
      not
      > pure compounds. Fractionating columns help separate the mixture by
      > allowing the mixed vapors to cool, condense, and vaporize again in
      > accordance with Raoult's law. With each condensation-vaporization
      > cycles, the vapors are enriched in a certain component. A larger
      > surface area allows more cycles, improving separation.
      >
      > Spinning band distillation takes this concept one step further by
      > using a spinning helical band made of an inert material such as
      metal
      > or Teflon to push the rising vapors and descending condensate to
      the
      > sides of the column, coming into close contact with each other.
      This
      > speeds up equilibration and provides for a greater number of
      > condensation-vaporization cycles.
      >



      Interesting concept. But I don't see any advantages over a well-
      packed column. In my mind's eye I see most of the internal volume
      of the column being taken up with a spiral or helical blade the
      length of the column. How it's driven is a matter for speculation
      (mechanically? or rising vapour?).
      Whatever, it will be complicated. Bearings or bushes, non-leaking
      and hot ethanol-resistant are just some of the issues that spring to
      mind.

      Then there's the obvious issue of all the vapours and the liquid
      only using the column walls as a path both ways. Won't this lead to
      channelling, the supposed no-no?

      I'd bet my next production run that if you compared similar sized
      columns, one with mesh packing & one with a heli-coil insert, the
      packed column would win hands-down on quality as well as
      volume/per/hr, due to the much larger surface area available in the
      packing. A quick look at the Mike's "The Compleat Distiller" or
      homedistiller.org will tell you about packing's capabilities.

      However, as always it would be interesting to do a comparison (any
      takers?).

      Just my 3¢ (inflation).


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
    • Neil Stephens
      Gday, I m just guessing, but I d say that technique sounds like it is for improving an unpacked column, but it wouldn t be an improvement on a column with high
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 3, 2007
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        Gday,

        I'm just guessing, but I'd say that technique sounds like it is for
        improving an unpacked column, but it wouldn't be an improvement on a
        column with high surface area packing. It might even be talking about
        a column with natural reflux instead of forced reflux as in a compound
        still.

        Cheers,
        knarl.

        On 7/4/07, mstehelin <mstehelin@...> wrote:
        > Has this been discussed before?
        > I did a quick search and didn't turn up anything
        > Cheers
        >
        >
        >
        > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        >
        > Spinning band distillation.
        >
        > Spinning band distillation is a technique used to separate liquid
        > mixtures which are similar in boiling points. When liquids with
        > similar boiling points are distilled, the vapors are mixtures, and not
        > pure compounds. Fractionating columns help separate the mixture by
        > allowing the mixed vapors to cool, condense, and vaporize again in
        > accordance with Raoult's law. With each condensation-vaporization
        > cycles, the vapors are enriched in a certain component. A larger
        > surface area allows more cycles, improving separation.
        >
        > Spinning band distillation takes this concept one step further by
        > using a spinning helical band made of an inert material such as metal
        > or Teflon to push the rising vapors and descending condensate to the
        > sides of the column, coming into close contact with each other. This
        > speeds up equilibration and provides for a greater number of
        > condensation-vaporization cycles.
        >
        >
      • Neil Stephens
        You beat me to it! with a lots better answer as well! Cheers, knarl.
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 3, 2007
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          You beat me to it! with a lots better answer as well!

          Cheers,
          knarl.

          On 7/4/07, Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Has this been discussed before?
          > > I did a quick search and didn't turn up anything
          > > Cheers
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          > >
          > > Spinning band distillation.
          > >
          > > Spinning band distillation is a technique used to separate liquid
          > > mixtures which are similar in boiling points. When liquids with
          > > similar boiling points are distilled, the vapors are mixtures, and
          > not
          > > pure compounds. Fractionating columns help separate the mixture by
          > > allowing the mixed vapors to cool, condense, and vaporize again in
          > > accordance with Raoult's law. With each condensation-vaporization
          > > cycles, the vapors are enriched in a certain component. A larger
          > > surface area allows more cycles, improving separation.
          > >
          > > Spinning band distillation takes this concept one step further by
          > > using a spinning helical band made of an inert material such as
          > metal
          > > or Teflon to push the rising vapors and descending condensate to
          > the
          > > sides of the column, coming into close contact with each other.
          > This
          > > speeds up equilibration and provides for a greater number of
          > > condensation-vaporization cycles.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Interesting concept. But I don't see any advantages over a well-
          > packed column. In my mind's eye I see most of the internal volume
          > of the column being taken up with a spiral or helical blade the
          > length of the column. How it's driven is a matter for speculation
          > (mechanically? or rising vapour?).
          > Whatever, it will be complicated. Bearings or bushes, non-leaking
          > and hot ethanol-resistant are just some of the issues that spring to
          > mind.
          >
          > Then there's the obvious issue of all the vapours and the liquid
          > only using the column walls as a path both ways. Won't this lead to
          > channelling, the supposed no-no?
          >
          > I'd bet my next production run that if you compared similar sized
          > columns, one with mesh packing & one with a heli-coil insert, the
          > packed column would win hands-down on quality as well as
          > volume/per/hr, due to the much larger surface area available in the
          > packing. A quick look at the Mike's "The Compleat Distiller" or
          > homedistiller.org will tell you about packing's capabilities.
          >
          > However, as always it would be interesting to do a comparison (any
          > takers?).
          >
          > Just my 3¢ (inflation).
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          >
        • sn_cur
          ... Check this out: http://homedistiller.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3333
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 3, 2007
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Has this been discussed before?


            Check this out:

            http://homedistiller.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3333
          • abbababbaccc
            It was an interesting idea but the results he published were not as good as one would get with shorter packed column. What was different with that setup was
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 3, 2007
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              It was an interesting idea but the results he published were not as
              good as one would get with shorter packed column. What was different
              with that setup was that it could stand roughly double the power
              when compared to a packed column. It would have been interesting to
              get some results after he sorted out all the bugs to figure out the
              real performance.

              Cheers, Riku

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sn_cur" <sn_cur@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > Has this been discussed before?
              >
              >
              > Check this out:
              >
              > http://homedistiller.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3333
              >
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