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Re: [new_distillers] YEast....

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  • SLOUGHVIEW@aol.com
    hi you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i have read recipes
    Message 1 of 16 , May 1, 2007
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      hi
      you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last
      batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i
      have read recipes from time that that say we added this and that then
      pitched in some baking yeast. while they gave the amount for the other
      ingredients they are so vague on how much yeast?
      i love this site.
      slough

      -----Original Message-----
      From: scotty@...
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:28 AM
      Subject: [new_distillers] YEast....

      Hi there

      > hi
      > you know my question about baking yeast is how to you calulate how
      much
      > yeast to use per gallon of wash?
      > so many question.
      > slough

      From brewing it is a standard of 1l per hectolitre for worts up to
      1.055 - 60, 2l per hectolitre for gravities over.

      Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
      commercial
      cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers yeast
      and top quality nutrient.

      Scotty






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    • scotty@onlinebrewing.com
      ... Remember I asked why not what ... ;-p Scotty
      Message 2 of 16 , May 1, 2007
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        > This has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but here goes.
        >
        > When we talk of bakers yeast, what exactly is it? Of course it's used by
        > bakers for making bread and stuff - I've even seen bread penises - but is
        > it the yeast that we see in supermarkets near the quick bread making
        > machines or is it the white, chunky stuff I remember as a lad, or doesn't
        > it matter?

        Remember I asked 'why' not 'what'... ;-p

        Scotty
      • mavnkaf
        The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like you said, in the
        Message 3 of 16 , May 1, 2007
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          The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
          tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
          you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
          for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
          far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
          20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
          sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.

          Cheers
          Marc

          <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae#Top-
          fermenting_yeast>


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
          >
          > This has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but here goes.
          >
          > When we talk of bakers yeast, what exactly is it? Of course it's
          used by bakers for making bread and stuff - I've even seen bread
          penises - but is it the yeast that we see in supermarkets near the
          quick bread making machines or is it the white, chunky stuff I remember
          as a lad, or doesn't it matter?
          >
          > Blanikdog
          >
        • burrows2418
          Hi Slough, With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right atmospheric conditions it ll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick start you give
          Message 4 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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            Hi Slough,
            With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
            atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
            start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
            ferments.
            Like a problem we got in class at 11 years old at school. Trying to
            explain to us what a "red herring" was. And the problem was.
            Let say if a Placebo takes 10 minutes to reproduce, i.e. split
            in two. And you have a jar that takes one hour to fill exactly to
            the half way mark, with let say 50 million Placebo in there. How
            long will it take to completely fill the jar?
            Well at 11 years old we all said 50million x 1hour but obviously it
            was wrong. And if 50 million all reproduced in 10 minutes the jar
            would be full. So 10 minutes was the correct answer
            What we where suffering with was information overload and it was
            hard to pick out what was relevant for our needs to solve our
            problem. So by you not fully understanding the life cycle of a yeast
            and getting information overload it's hard to figure out what's right
            But if you give yeast

            1 the correct amount of sugar

            2 the right temperature

            3 the right atmospheric conditions

            4 enough time

            5 the right kick start of sufficient yeast at the start

            If you put a small bread making sachet of yeast into your 5
            gallon/25 litres of wash it multiply and will eventually ferment
            out. That's point 4 above if you put in 5 sachets you are off to a
            flying start point 5 above
            If you want the whiz kid speed, go for the turbo wash.
            Or if you want the satisfaction of knowing you made it from
            ingredients from the grocery store and old copper pipe bits from the
            back yard and a lot of knowledge you've learnt on the way as to how
            to do it. Researching about a subject i.e. yeast and it's life cycle
            in the forum library is a good start, type in "yeast life cycle" in
            the forum search panel and read, read, read.
            The more you find out about a subject the more you realize you
            didn't know much about it in the first place, as is so with
            distilling
            Everyone gets what they want from any hobby. Feeling good with
            what I've made and snubbing my nose at authority does it for me, and
            me and "her indoors" get pie eyed into the bargain.
            Geoff

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, SLOUGHVIEW@... wrote:
            >
            > hi
            > you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last
            > batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i
            > have read recipes from time that that say we added this and that
            then
            > pitched in some baking yeast. while they gave the amount for the
            other
            > ingredients they are so vague on how much yeast?
            > i love this site.
            > slough
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: scotty@...
            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:28 AM
            > Subject: [new_distillers] YEast....
            >
            > Hi there
            >
            > > hi
            > > you know my question about baking yeast is how to you calulate
            how
            > much
            > > yeast to use per gallon of wash?
            > > so many question.
            > > slough
            >
            > From brewing it is a standard of 1l per hectolitre for worts up to
            > 1.055 - 60, 2l per hectolitre for gravities over.
            >
            > Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
            > commercial
            > cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers
            yeast
            > and top quality nutrient.
            >
            > Scotty
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ______________________________________________________________________
            __
            > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
            free
            > from AOL at AOL.com.
            > =0
            >
          • Scott Morgan
            ... Another way to manipulate is to hit the medium with high levels of O2 and the yeast will continue to bud not ferment. This is the main propagation method
            Message 5 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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              burrows2418 wrote:
              >
              > Hi Slough,
              > With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
              > atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
              > start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
              > ferments.
              >

              > e: 1/05/2007 2:57 PM
              >


              Another way to manipulate is to hit the medium with high levels of O2
              and the yeast will continue to bud not ferment. This is the main
              propagation method for some commercial producers, they can go on for
              weeks producing cells..

              Once released to ferment a lower gravity (SG 1.040 and below) is
              preferred so as to provide a more viable yeast. As mentioned previously,
              the higher ferment should be seeded with healthy yeast of a lower OG.

              2l of thick viable slurry is the rule for high OG ferments on my side of
              the world.. viable cells equals healthy yeast, reliable ferments,
              attenuation and floculation...

              Scotty
            • Robert Thomas
              2 litres of thick slurry to how much wash? Seems like a heck of a lot for 5 gallons (US or UK). Cheers Rob. ... Cheers, Rob.
              Message 6 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                2 litres of thick slurry to how much wash? Seems like a heck of a lot
                for 5 gallons (US or UK).
                Cheers
                Rob.

                --- Scott Morgan <scotty@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > burrows2418 wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Slough,
                > > With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
                > > atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
                > > start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
                > > ferments.
                > >
                >
                > > e: 1/05/2007 2:57 PM
                > >
                >
                >
                > Another way to manipulate is to hit the medium with high levels of O2
                >
                > and the yeast will continue to bud not ferment. This is the main
                > propagation method for some commercial producers, they can go on for
                > weeks producing cells..
                >
                > Once released to ferment a lower gravity (SG 1.040 and below) is
                > preferred so as to provide a more viable yeast. As mentioned
                > previously,
                > the higher ferment should be seeded with healthy yeast of a lower OG.
                >
                > 2l of thick viable slurry is the rule for high OG ferments on my side
                > of
                > the world.. viable cells equals healthy yeast, reliable ferments,
                > attenuation and floculation...
                >
                > Scotty
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > > begin:vcard
                > fn:Scotty Morgan
                > n:Morgan;Scotty
                > org:NNL Beer Supplies
                > adr:;;PO Box 544;Bright;VIC;3741;Australia
                > email;internet:scotty@...
                > title:Brewer
                > tel;work:skype:southcoastrealale
                > tel;cell:0419545114
                > note:skype:southcoastrealale
                > url:http://www.nnlbeersupplies.com.au
                > version:2.1
                > end:vcard
                >
                >


                Cheers,
                Rob.

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              • Derek Hamlet
                Another voice in the wilderness says that I use Lalvin EC 1118 or EC1116. They have higher tolerance for alcohol and can ferment out higher. Mind you if you
                Message 7 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                  Another voice in the wilderness says that I use Lalvin EC 1118 or
                  EC1116. They have higher tolerance for alcohol and can ferment out
                  higher. Mind you if you are really going for "taste" in your product
                  then higher alcohol wash is not the way to go according to Harry and
                  numerous books on the subject.
                  For neutral alcohol though that's what I do.
                  Lalving yeasts cost $1 Cdn per 5g. package. That's not enough for a
                  big wash, but I just make a starter about 5 days in advance and keep
                  making larger until I have a veritable malestrom happening. This I
                  add to my 23 or 46 litre washes. It works well for me with molasses.
                  At 09:43 PM 5/1/2007, you wrote:

                  >The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
                  >tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
                  >you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
                  >for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
                  >far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
                  >20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
                  >sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.
                  >
                  >Cheers
                  >Marc
                  >
                  ><

                  Derek Hamlet
                  Victoria, B. C. >:-}
                • Harry
                  ... wrote: ... Taking that approach a step further towards self-sufficiency, you can always try your hand at yeast ranching. It s not really worth it
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...>
                    wrote:
                    <snip>
                    > Lalving yeasts cost $1 Cdn per 5g. package. That's not enough for a
                    > big wash, but I just make a starter about 5 days in advance and keep
                    > making larger until I have a veritable malestrom happening. This I
                    > add to my 23 or 46 litre washes. It works well for me with molasses.



                    Taking that approach a step further towards self-sufficiency, you can
                    always try your hand at yeast ranching.

                    It's not really worth it just to save a couple of bucks. Yeast is
                    cheap. But it is an interesting side-issue to the hobby. Further, if
                    you manage to breed or otherwise acquire a particularly choice yeast
                    that fulfills all your desires flavour-wise and performance-wise, then
                    ranching, refrigerating the samples and even freezing (with glycerine)
                    makes sense. That way you can always reproduce your results. It's
                    really an achievement to grow up a pitchable colony from a single
                    yeast cell. A great feeling of satisfaction.

                    This hobby is a never ending source of varied interest.


                    Slainte!
                    regards Harry
                  • Scott Morgan
                    Sorry - per hecto (100) litres. Gives 10 to the 6th cells per milliliter. Scotty
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                      Sorry - per hecto (100) litres. Gives 10 to the 6th cells per milliliter.

                      Scotty


                      Robert Thomas wrote:
                      >
                      > 2 litres of thick slurry to how much wash? Seems like a heck of a lot
                      > for 5 gallons (US or UK).
                      > Cheers
                      > Rob.
                      >
                      > 2:57 PM
                      >
                    • SLOUGHVIEW@aol.com
                      hi geoff i love this hobby too. i know that each batch i run the queen with all her money can t enjoy one drop of my run. her people may come close to what i
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                        hi geoff
                        i love this hobby too. i know that each batch i run the queen with all
                        her money can't enjoy one drop of my run. her people may come close to
                        what i have but it will never be the same. LOL
                        slough

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: geoff@...
                        To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, 2 May 2007 4:50 AM
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: YEast....

                        Hi Slough,
                        With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
                        atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
                        start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
                        ferments.
                        Like a problem we got in class at 11 years old at school. Trying to
                        explain to us what a "red herring" was. And the problem was.
                        Let say if a Placebo takes 10 minutes to reproduce, i.e. split
                        in two. And you have a jar that takes one hour to fill exactly to
                        the half way mark, with let say 50 million Placebo in there. How
                        long will it take to completely fill the jar?
                        Well at 11 years old we all said 50million x 1hour but obviously it
                        was wrong. And if 50 million all reproduced in 10 minutes the jar
                        would be full. So 10 minutes was the correct answer
                        What we where suffering with was information overload and it was
                        hard to pick out what was relevant for our needs to solve our
                        problem. So by you not fully understanding the life cycle of a yeast
                        and getting information overload it's hard to figure out what's right
                        But if you give yeast

                        1 the correct amount of sugar

                        2 the right temperature

                        3 the right atmospheric conditions

                        4 enough time

                        5 the right kick start of sufficient yeast at the start

                        If you put a small bread making sachet of yeast into your 5
                        gallon/25 litres of wash it multiply and will eventually ferment
                        out. That's point 4 above if you put in 5 sachets you are off to a
                        flying start point 5 above
                        If you want the whiz kid speed, go for the turbo wash.
                        Or if you want the satisfaction of knowing you made it from
                        ingredients from the grocery store and old copper pipe bits from the
                        back yard and a lot of knowledge you've learnt on the way as to how
                        to do it. Researching about a subject i.e. yeast and it's life cycle
                        in the forum library is a good start, type in "yeast life cycle" in
                        the forum search panel and read, read, read.
                        The more you find out about a subject the more you realize you
                        didn't know much about it in the first place, as is so with
                        distilling
                        Everyone gets what they want from any hobby. Feeling good with
                        what I've made and snubbing my nose at authority does it for me, and
                        me and "her indoors" get pie eyed into the bargain.
                        Geoff

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, SLOUGHVIEW@... wrote:
                        >
                        > hi
                        > you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last
                        > batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i
                        > have read recipes from time that that say we added this and that
                        then
                        > pitched in some baking yeast. while they gave the amount for the
                        other
                        > ingredients they are so vague on how much yeast?
                        > i love this site.
                        > slough
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: scotty@...
                        > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:28 AM
                        > Subject: [new_distillers] YEast....
                        >
                        > Hi there
                        >
                        > > hi
                        > > you know my question about baking yeast is how to you calulate
                        how
                        > much
                        > > yeast to use per gallon of wash?
                        > > so many question.
                        > > slough
                        >
                        > From brewing it is a standard of 1l per hectolitre for worts up to
                        > 1.055 - 60, 2l per hectolitre for gravities over.
                        >
                        > Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
                        > commercial
                        > cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers
                        yeast
                        > and top quality nutrient.
                        >
                        > Scotty
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        __________________________________________________________
                        __
                        > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                        free
                        > from AOL at AOL.com.
                        > =0
                        >






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                      • SLOUGHVIEW@aol.com
                        hi if you go to the gutenberg website you can download this book free. http://www.gutenberg.org Title: The Practical Distiller An Introduction To Making
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                          hi
                          if you go to the gutenberg website you can download this book free.

                          http://www.gutenberg.org


                          Title: The Practical Distiller
                          An Introduction To Making Whiskey, Gin, Brandy, Spirits,
                          &c. &c. of Better Quality, and in Larger Quantities, than
                          Produced by the Present Mode of Distilling, from the
                          Produce
                          of the United States

                          Author: Samuel McHarry

                          Release Date: April 29, 2007 [EBook #21252]

                          Language: English

                          Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1

                          looks interesting.

                          slough
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                        • sonum norbu
                          Thanks Derek, That s the answer I was looking for. I usually use EC1118 looking for the higher etho output but was wondering about bakers yeast. Back in the
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                            Thanks Derek,

                            That's the answer I was looking for. I usually use EC1118 looking for the higher etho output but was wondering about bakers yeast. Back in the grog sodden recesses of my mind, I remember my father making beer using what seemed to a yeast that sorts resembled a chunk of puff pastry.

                            Having never used bakers yeast I'll give it a go on my next batch of Harry's GGGP's Rum.

                            I've just finished an eight generation run of Uncle Jesse's sour mash using EC1118 with great results and next time I'll use bakers yeast to compare. Trouble is I was hoping to leave it on wood for two years and by then I'll probably be dead.

                            Makes for a fine wake I guess. :)

                            blanikdog




                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Derek Hamlet" <derekhamlet@...>
                            > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: YEast....
                            > Date: Wed, 02 May:22:32 -0700
                            >
                            >
                            > Another voice in the wilderness says that I use Lalvin EC 1118 or
                            > EC1116. They have higher tolerance for alcohol and can ferment out
                            > higher. Mind you if you are really going for "taste" in your product
                            > then higher alcohol wash is not the way to go according to Harry and
                            > numerous books on the subject.
                            > For neutral alcohol though that's what I do.
                            > Lalving yeasts cost $1 Cdn per 5g. package. That's not enough for a
                            > big wash, but I just make a starter about 5 days in advance and keep
                            > making larger until I have a veritable malestrom happening. This I
                            > add to my 23 or 46 litre washes. It works well for me with molasses.
                            > At 09:43 PM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
                            >
                            > > The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
                            > > tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
                            > > you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
                            > > for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
                            > > far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
                            > > 20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
                            > > sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers
                            > > Marc
                            > >
                            > > <
                            >
                            > Derek Hamlet
                            > Victoria, B. C. >:-}

                            >



                            "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

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                          • Ian Kent
                            How about fresh bakers yeast from the bakery. The local baker gives me about 200gm for AUD$2.00 enough for 2 molasses batches. Ian...
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                              How about fresh bakers yeast from the bakery.
                              The local baker gives me about 200gm for AUD$2.00 enough for 2 molasses batches.


                              Ian...

                              On 5/2/07, mavnkaf <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
                              > tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
                              > you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
                              > for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
                              > far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
                              > 20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
                              > sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              > Marc
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