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Re: [new_distillers] YEast....

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  • SLOUGHVIEW@aol.com
    hi you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i have read recipes
    Message 1 of 16 , May 1, 2007
      hi
      you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last
      batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i
      have read recipes from time that that say we added this and that then
      pitched in some baking yeast. while they gave the amount for the other
      ingredients they are so vague on how much yeast?
      i love this site.
      slough

      -----Original Message-----
      From: scotty@...
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:28 AM
      Subject: [new_distillers] YEast....

      Hi there

      > hi
      > you know my question about baking yeast is how to you calulate how
      much
      > yeast to use per gallon of wash?
      > so many question.
      > slough

      From brewing it is a standard of 1l per hectolitre for worts up to
      1.055 - 60, 2l per hectolitre for gravities over.

      Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
      commercial
      cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers yeast
      and top quality nutrient.

      Scotty






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    • sonum norbu
      This has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but here goes. When we talk of bakers yeast, what exactly is it? Of course it s used by bakers for making
      Message 2 of 16 , May 1, 2007
        This has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but here goes.

        When we talk of bakers yeast, what exactly is it? Of course it's used by bakers for making bread and stuff - I've even seen bread penises - but is it the yeast that we see in supermarkets near the quick bread making machines or is it the white, chunky stuff I remember as a lad, or doesn't it matter?

        Blanikdog





        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Harry <gnikomson2000@...>
        > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: YEast....
        > Date: Tue, 01 May:09:08 -0000
        >
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Scott Morgan <scotty@...> wrote:
        > <snip>
        >
        > > Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
        > commercial
        > > cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers
        > yeast
        > > and top quality nutrient.
        > >
        > > Scotty
        > >
        >
        >
        > Two reasons, mainly...
        > 1) Cost and
        > 2) Availability
        >
        > Cost:
        > Bakers yeast is a LOT cheaper than commercial yeast sachets or
        > phials. In most cases it will ferment to 13 or 14% which is quite
        > adequate for most mashes. Even with distillers yeasts if you push
        > them too much you get undesirable by-products because of yeast stress.
        >
        > Availability:
        > Many places around the world don't have brewshops on the corner (or at
        > the showgrounds ;) ).
        > Yes they can buy online, but not everyone is capable of doing that,
        > nor do they want to. In some places it can draw the attention of
        > officialdom, this hobby being illegal in +90% of the planet.
        >
        > In this crazy modern world where everything sent by mail that's a
        > powder is opened & inspected, people are a tad reluctant to stick
        > their hand up!
        > I've had Sydney customs open sachets that I had sent from England.
        > Luckily they were still usable (dried yeasts spoil rapidly after air
        > contact, as you know).
        > OTOH, bakers yeast is readily available almost everywhere, without
        > having to give an address or an ID card.
        >
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        >
        > ps.
        > Welcome aboard, Scott. Don't forget to read that groups policy re
        > advertising & siglines.
        >
        > H

        >



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      • scotty@onlinebrewing.com
        ... Remember I asked why not what ... ;-p Scotty
        Message 3 of 16 , May 1, 2007
          > This has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but here goes.
          >
          > When we talk of bakers yeast, what exactly is it? Of course it's used by
          > bakers for making bread and stuff - I've even seen bread penises - but is
          > it the yeast that we see in supermarkets near the quick bread making
          > machines or is it the white, chunky stuff I remember as a lad, or doesn't
          > it matter?

          Remember I asked 'why' not 'what'... ;-p

          Scotty
        • mavnkaf
          The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like you said, in the
          Message 4 of 16 , May 1, 2007
            The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
            tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
            you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
            for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
            far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
            20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
            sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.

            Cheers
            Marc

            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_cerevisiae#Top-
            fermenting_yeast>


            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sonum norbu" <blanik@...> wrote:
            >
            > This has to be the dumbest question ever asked, but here goes.
            >
            > When we talk of bakers yeast, what exactly is it? Of course it's
            used by bakers for making bread and stuff - I've even seen bread
            penises - but is it the yeast that we see in supermarkets near the
            quick bread making machines or is it the white, chunky stuff I remember
            as a lad, or doesn't it matter?
            >
            > Blanikdog
            >
          • burrows2418
            Hi Slough, With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right atmospheric conditions it ll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick start you give
            Message 5 of 16 , May 2, 2007
              Hi Slough,
              With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
              atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
              start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
              ferments.
              Like a problem we got in class at 11 years old at school. Trying to
              explain to us what a "red herring" was. And the problem was.
              Let say if a Placebo takes 10 minutes to reproduce, i.e. split
              in two. And you have a jar that takes one hour to fill exactly to
              the half way mark, with let say 50 million Placebo in there. How
              long will it take to completely fill the jar?
              Well at 11 years old we all said 50million x 1hour but obviously it
              was wrong. And if 50 million all reproduced in 10 minutes the jar
              would be full. So 10 minutes was the correct answer
              What we where suffering with was information overload and it was
              hard to pick out what was relevant for our needs to solve our
              problem. So by you not fully understanding the life cycle of a yeast
              and getting information overload it's hard to figure out what's right
              But if you give yeast

              1 the correct amount of sugar

              2 the right temperature

              3 the right atmospheric conditions

              4 enough time

              5 the right kick start of sufficient yeast at the start

              If you put a small bread making sachet of yeast into your 5
              gallon/25 litres of wash it multiply and will eventually ferment
              out. That's point 4 above if you put in 5 sachets you are off to a
              flying start point 5 above
              If you want the whiz kid speed, go for the turbo wash.
              Or if you want the satisfaction of knowing you made it from
              ingredients from the grocery store and old copper pipe bits from the
              back yard and a lot of knowledge you've learnt on the way as to how
              to do it. Researching about a subject i.e. yeast and it's life cycle
              in the forum library is a good start, type in "yeast life cycle" in
              the forum search panel and read, read, read.
              The more you find out about a subject the more you realize you
              didn't know much about it in the first place, as is so with
              distilling
              Everyone gets what they want from any hobby. Feeling good with
              what I've made and snubbing my nose at authority does it for me, and
              me and "her indoors" get pie eyed into the bargain.
              Geoff

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, SLOUGHVIEW@... wrote:
              >
              > hi
              > you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last
              > batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i
              > have read recipes from time that that say we added this and that
              then
              > pitched in some baking yeast. while they gave the amount for the
              other
              > ingredients they are so vague on how much yeast?
              > i love this site.
              > slough
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: scotty@...
              > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:28 AM
              > Subject: [new_distillers] YEast....
              >
              > Hi there
              >
              > > hi
              > > you know my question about baking yeast is how to you calulate
              how
              > much
              > > yeast to use per gallon of wash?
              > > so many question.
              > > slough
              >
              > From brewing it is a standard of 1l per hectolitre for worts up to
              > 1.055 - 60, 2l per hectolitre for gravities over.
              >
              > Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
              > commercial
              > cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers
              yeast
              > and top quality nutrient.
              >
              > Scotty
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ______________________________________________________________________
              __
              > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
              free
              > from AOL at AOL.com.
              > =0
              >
            • Scott Morgan
              ... Another way to manipulate is to hit the medium with high levels of O2 and the yeast will continue to bud not ferment. This is the main propagation method
              Message 6 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                burrows2418 wrote:
                >
                > Hi Slough,
                > With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
                > atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
                > start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
                > ferments.
                >

                > e: 1/05/2007 2:57 PM
                >


                Another way to manipulate is to hit the medium with high levels of O2
                and the yeast will continue to bud not ferment. This is the main
                propagation method for some commercial producers, they can go on for
                weeks producing cells..

                Once released to ferment a lower gravity (SG 1.040 and below) is
                preferred so as to provide a more viable yeast. As mentioned previously,
                the higher ferment should be seeded with healthy yeast of a lower OG.

                2l of thick viable slurry is the rule for high OG ferments on my side of
                the world.. viable cells equals healthy yeast, reliable ferments,
                attenuation and floculation...

                Scotty
              • Robert Thomas
                2 litres of thick slurry to how much wash? Seems like a heck of a lot for 5 gallons (US or UK). Cheers Rob. ... Cheers, Rob.
                Message 7 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                  2 litres of thick slurry to how much wash? Seems like a heck of a lot
                  for 5 gallons (US or UK).
                  Cheers
                  Rob.

                  --- Scott Morgan <scotty@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > burrows2418 wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Slough,
                  > > With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
                  > > atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
                  > > start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
                  > > ferments.
                  > >
                  >
                  > > e: 1/05/2007 2:57 PM
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Another way to manipulate is to hit the medium with high levels of O2
                  >
                  > and the yeast will continue to bud not ferment. This is the main
                  > propagation method for some commercial producers, they can go on for
                  > weeks producing cells..
                  >
                  > Once released to ferment a lower gravity (SG 1.040 and below) is
                  > preferred so as to provide a more viable yeast. As mentioned
                  > previously,
                  > the higher ferment should be seeded with healthy yeast of a lower OG.
                  >
                  > 2l of thick viable slurry is the rule for high OG ferments on my side
                  > of
                  > the world.. viable cells equals healthy yeast, reliable ferments,
                  > attenuation and floculation...
                  >
                  > Scotty
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > begin:vcard
                  > fn:Scotty Morgan
                  > n:Morgan;Scotty
                  > org:NNL Beer Supplies
                  > adr:;;PO Box 544;Bright;VIC;3741;Australia
                  > email;internet:scotty@...
                  > title:Brewer
                  > tel;work:skype:southcoastrealale
                  > tel;cell:0419545114
                  > note:skype:southcoastrealale
                  > url:http://www.nnlbeersupplies.com.au
                  > version:2.1
                  > end:vcard
                  >
                  >


                  Cheers,
                  Rob.

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                • Derek Hamlet
                  Another voice in the wilderness says that I use Lalvin EC 1118 or EC1116. They have higher tolerance for alcohol and can ferment out higher. Mind you if you
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                    Another voice in the wilderness says that I use Lalvin EC 1118 or
                    EC1116. They have higher tolerance for alcohol and can ferment out
                    higher. Mind you if you are really going for "taste" in your product
                    then higher alcohol wash is not the way to go according to Harry and
                    numerous books on the subject.
                    For neutral alcohol though that's what I do.
                    Lalving yeasts cost $1 Cdn per 5g. package. That's not enough for a
                    big wash, but I just make a starter about 5 days in advance and keep
                    making larger until I have a veritable malestrom happening. This I
                    add to my 23 or 46 litre washes. It works well for me with molasses.
                    At 09:43 PM 5/1/2007, you wrote:

                    >The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
                    >tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
                    >you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
                    >for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
                    >far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
                    >20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
                    >sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.
                    >
                    >Cheers
                    >Marc
                    >
                    ><

                    Derek Hamlet
                    Victoria, B. C. >:-}
                  • Harry
                    ... wrote: ... Taking that approach a step further towards self-sufficiency, you can always try your hand at yeast ranching. It s not really worth it
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...>
                      wrote:
                      <snip>
                      > Lalving yeasts cost $1 Cdn per 5g. package. That's not enough for a
                      > big wash, but I just make a starter about 5 days in advance and keep
                      > making larger until I have a veritable malestrom happening. This I
                      > add to my 23 or 46 litre washes. It works well for me with molasses.



                      Taking that approach a step further towards self-sufficiency, you can
                      always try your hand at yeast ranching.

                      It's not really worth it just to save a couple of bucks. Yeast is
                      cheap. But it is an interesting side-issue to the hobby. Further, if
                      you manage to breed or otherwise acquire a particularly choice yeast
                      that fulfills all your desires flavour-wise and performance-wise, then
                      ranching, refrigerating the samples and even freezing (with glycerine)
                      makes sense. That way you can always reproduce your results. It's
                      really an achievement to grow up a pitchable colony from a single
                      yeast cell. A great feeling of satisfaction.

                      This hobby is a never ending source of varied interest.


                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • Scott Morgan
                      Sorry - per hecto (100) litres. Gives 10 to the 6th cells per milliliter. Scotty
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                        Sorry - per hecto (100) litres. Gives 10 to the 6th cells per milliliter.

                        Scotty


                        Robert Thomas wrote:
                        >
                        > 2 litres of thick slurry to how much wash? Seems like a heck of a lot
                        > for 5 gallons (US or UK).
                        > Cheers
                        > Rob.
                        >
                        > 2:57 PM
                        >
                      • SLOUGHVIEW@aol.com
                        hi geoff i love this hobby too. i know that each batch i run the queen with all her money can t enjoy one drop of my run. her people may come close to what i
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                          hi geoff
                          i love this hobby too. i know that each batch i run the queen with all
                          her money can't enjoy one drop of my run. her people may come close to
                          what i have but it will never be the same. LOL
                          slough

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: geoff@...
                          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, 2 May 2007 4:50 AM
                          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: YEast....

                          Hi Slough,
                          With yeast as long as you feed it with sugar an under the right
                          atmospheric conditions it'll produce alcohol. Depending on the kick
                          start you give the wash it will determine how fast your wash
                          ferments.
                          Like a problem we got in class at 11 years old at school. Trying to
                          explain to us what a "red herring" was. And the problem was.
                          Let say if a Placebo takes 10 minutes to reproduce, i.e. split
                          in two. And you have a jar that takes one hour to fill exactly to
                          the half way mark, with let say 50 million Placebo in there. How
                          long will it take to completely fill the jar?
                          Well at 11 years old we all said 50million x 1hour but obviously it
                          was wrong. And if 50 million all reproduced in 10 minutes the jar
                          would be full. So 10 minutes was the correct answer
                          What we where suffering with was information overload and it was
                          hard to pick out what was relevant for our needs to solve our
                          problem. So by you not fully understanding the life cycle of a yeast
                          and getting information overload it's hard to figure out what's right
                          But if you give yeast

                          1 the correct amount of sugar

                          2 the right temperature

                          3 the right atmospheric conditions

                          4 enough time

                          5 the right kick start of sufficient yeast at the start

                          If you put a small bread making sachet of yeast into your 5
                          gallon/25 litres of wash it multiply and will eventually ferment
                          out. That's point 4 above if you put in 5 sachets you are off to a
                          flying start point 5 above
                          If you want the whiz kid speed, go for the turbo wash.
                          Or if you want the satisfaction of knowing you made it from
                          ingredients from the grocery store and old copper pipe bits from the
                          back yard and a lot of knowledge you've learnt on the way as to how
                          to do it. Researching about a subject i.e. yeast and it's life cycle
                          in the forum library is a good start, type in "yeast life cycle" in
                          the forum search panel and read, read, read.
                          The more you find out about a subject the more you realize you
                          didn't know much about it in the first place, as is so with
                          distilling
                          Everyone gets what they want from any hobby. Feeling good with
                          what I've made and snubbing my nose at authority does it for me, and
                          me and "her indoors" get pie eyed into the bargain.
                          Geoff

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, SLOUGHVIEW@... wrote:
                          >
                          > hi
                          > you are right and i do use other yeasts than baking yeast. my last
                          > batch was a made with a good wine yeast and was the best so far. i
                          > have read recipes from time that that say we added this and that
                          then
                          > pitched in some baking yeast. while they gave the amount for the
                          other
                          > ingredients they are so vague on how much yeast?
                          > i love this site.
                          > slough
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: scotty@...
                          > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:28 AM
                          > Subject: [new_distillers] YEast....
                          >
                          > Hi there
                          >
                          > > hi
                          > > you know my question about baking yeast is how to you calulate
                          how
                          > much
                          > > yeast to use per gallon of wash?
                          > > so many question.
                          > > slough
                          >
                          > From brewing it is a standard of 1l per hectolitre for worts up to
                          > 1.055 - 60, 2l per hectolitre for gravities over.
                          >
                          > Just wondering why you would use bakers yeast when there are
                          > commercial
                          > cultures of distillers yeast available - Wyeast do a distillers
                          yeast
                          > and top quality nutrient.
                          >
                          > Scotty
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          __________________________________________________________
                          __
                          > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                          free
                          > from AOL at AOL.com.
                          > =0
                          >






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                        • SLOUGHVIEW@aol.com
                          hi if you go to the gutenberg website you can download this book free. http://www.gutenberg.org Title: The Practical Distiller An Introduction To Making
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                            hi
                            if you go to the gutenberg website you can download this book free.

                            http://www.gutenberg.org


                            Title: The Practical Distiller
                            An Introduction To Making Whiskey, Gin, Brandy, Spirits,
                            &c. &c. of Better Quality, and in Larger Quantities, than
                            Produced by the Present Mode of Distilling, from the
                            Produce
                            of the United States

                            Author: Samuel McHarry

                            Release Date: April 29, 2007 [EBook #21252]

                            Language: English

                            Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1

                            looks interesting.

                            slough
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                          • sonum norbu
                            Thanks Derek, That s the answer I was looking for. I usually use EC1118 looking for the higher etho output but was wondering about bakers yeast. Back in the
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                              Thanks Derek,

                              That's the answer I was looking for. I usually use EC1118 looking for the higher etho output but was wondering about bakers yeast. Back in the grog sodden recesses of my mind, I remember my father making beer using what seemed to a yeast that sorts resembled a chunk of puff pastry.

                              Having never used bakers yeast I'll give it a go on my next batch of Harry's GGGP's Rum.

                              I've just finished an eight generation run of Uncle Jesse's sour mash using EC1118 with great results and next time I'll use bakers yeast to compare. Trouble is I was hoping to leave it on wood for two years and by then I'll probably be dead.

                              Makes for a fine wake I guess. :)

                              blanikdog




                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Derek Hamlet" <derekhamlet@...>
                              > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: YEast....
                              > Date: Wed, 02 May:22:32 -0700
                              >
                              >
                              > Another voice in the wilderness says that I use Lalvin EC 1118 or
                              > EC1116. They have higher tolerance for alcohol and can ferment out
                              > higher. Mind you if you are really going for "taste" in your product
                              > then higher alcohol wash is not the way to go according to Harry and
                              > numerous books on the subject.
                              > For neutral alcohol though that's what I do.
                              > Lalving yeasts cost $1 Cdn per 5g. package. That's not enough for a
                              > big wash, but I just make a starter about 5 days in advance and keep
                              > making larger until I have a veritable malestrom happening. This I
                              > add to my 23 or 46 litre washes. It works well for me with molasses.
                              > At 09:43 PM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
                              >
                              > > The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
                              > > tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
                              > > you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
                              > > for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
                              > > far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
                              > > 20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
                              > > sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers
                              > > Marc
                              > >
                              > > <
                              >
                              > Derek Hamlet
                              > Victoria, B. C. >:-}

                              >



                              "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                              SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                              http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/



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                            • Ian Kent
                              How about fresh bakers yeast from the bakery. The local baker gives me about 200gm for AUD$2.00 enough for 2 molasses batches. Ian...
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 2, 2007
                                How about fresh bakers yeast from the bakery.
                                The local baker gives me about 200gm for AUD$2.00 enough for 2 molasses batches.


                                Ian...

                                On 5/2/07, mavnkaf <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > The stuff I have been using latly for molasses washs is the supermarket
                                > tpye. (defiance dry bakers yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae) Just like
                                > you said, in the flour section. I pay $3.40 AUD for a 96 grm box, good
                                > for one molasses wash. I've done 8x25L washs in the last month and so
                                > far all have fermented out between 10-12 %, all start bubbling with in
                                > 20-40 minutes. And it finishes in about 4-6 day depending how much
                                > sugar you added to the wash. I hope the link works.
                                >
                                > Cheers
                                > Marc
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