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Re: [new_distillers] reflux

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  • John Vandermeulen
    Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate fractions with a reflux column - i.e. - what is the temperature limit for the foreshot , - what
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 13, 2002
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      Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate fractions with a
      reflux column - i.e.
      - what is the temperature limit for the 'foreshot',
      - what is the temp. range for 'middle',
      - and what is it for the 'tails'? Or is everything left over after the middle
      called tails?

      Do I have it right - is the temp. what one uses?

      I have read that the tails can be saved/added to the next batch. Is that
      correct? Or do I throw away everything left over after the middle cut?

      John V.
    • cornfed62
      John The most important aspect of observing temperature is to make sure that you do not save any foreshots as beverage. Anything collected before the still
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 13, 2002
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        John

        The most important aspect of observing temperature is to make sure
        that you do not save any foreshots as beverage. Anything collected
        before the still head reachs 172 degrees (f) should be discarded or
        used as charcoal lighter. From there on you would be better off
        using your nose to detect if the heads are finished or not. Then
        experience will tell you when the tails start coming over. Some
        people save more tails into their product than others. This is
        according to taste. Of course everything I just typed about flavor
        is assuming that you are using a grain mash. If you are using a
        sugar wash, then the nasties that make you use carbon treatment are
        in the cogners.

        For me I let the still equalize in total reflux for 2 hours and then
        draw off the foreshots and then let it equalize for another 1/2 hour.
        Then I draw off the heads until I cant detect a foul smell. These I
        save and add to a container labled "faints". Then I distill the
        middle run and a portion of the tails. I run this phase until I reach
        75 pct ABV. These are saved in my 'product' containers. Then
        everything else is distilled out until 65 pct and placed into the
        feints container. Then I distill everything else out of the wash that
        I can get. I stop when still head temps reach 205 or so degrees
        (f). Everything in this portion goes into a container
        labled 'redistill'. If you 'throw everything away' then you will
        be sending perfectly good ethanol down the drain. It might not be
        beverage quality right now, but it will be excellant stock to make a
        clear vodka from.

        Those are my thoughts anyway.

        cheers

        --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
        wrote:
        > Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate
        fractions with a
        > reflux column - i.e.
        > - what is the temperature limit for the 'foreshot',
        > - what is the temp. range for 'middle',
        > - and what is it for the 'tails'? Or is everything left over after
        the middle
        > called tails?
        >
        > Do I have it right - is the temp. what one uses?
        >
        > I have read that the tails can be saved/added to the next batch.
        Is that
        > correct? Or do I throw away everything left over after the middle
        cut?
        >
        > John V.
      • klcampbell
        John,Yes temperature is the indication of exactly what you are getting from a sugar wash. Some drops appear at 48oC,possible ether or some other low boiling
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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          John,Yes temperature is the indication of exactly what you are getting from
          a sugar wash.
          Some drops appear at 48oC,possible ether or some other low boiling
          substance.Then at about 68oC you get a few more drops,don't ask me what they
          are as I am a dumb toolmaker but if you have precise control of the heating
          system you will see these few drops appear.The low 70's are when you get
          some more but they are low in volume and then the temperature is usually
          going crazy,fluctuations of up to 10oc.
          You now have the Nasties knocking on the door,fore shots or what ever people
          want to call them.
          HASTEN SLOWLY,If you take off the fore shots slowly and observe the
          temperature,it will stabilise@close to 78.oC,Mine does @ 79.oC,but I am very
          close to sea level and it will remain there for close to 18 hours during the
          run and produce at 96.5% for the entire duration and when the temperature
          increase by 3/10 of one degree the product just stops.This indicates the end
          of the purest fraction and I often just pour the rest down the drain.Not so
          with a grain wash which has to be run twice,but that is my new learning
          curve for this year.
          Hoping this helps,Regards,Ken.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "John Vandermeulen" <vandermeulen@...>
          To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 9:50
          Subject: Re: [new_distillers] reflux


          > Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate fractions
          with a
          > reflux column - i.e.
          > - what is the temperature limit for the 'foreshot',
          > - what is the temp. range for 'middle',
          > - and what is it for the 'tails'? Or is everything left over after the
          middle
          > called tails?
          >
          > Do I have it right - is the temp. what one uses?
          >
          > I have read that the tails can be saved/added to the next batch. Is that
          > correct? Or do I throw away everything left over after the middle cut?
          >
          > John V.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • John Vandermeulen
          Hi cornfed, GREAT reply. A further question. Yesterday evening I read through my file of still clippings, print-outs and e-mails on this topic - cut-off
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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            Hi cornfed, GREAT reply.
            A further question. Yesterday evening I read through my file of still
            clippings, print-outs and e-mails on this topic - cut-off points for the
            different fractions. And noticed that some folks (including Tony A.) use
            %ABV as marking limits to heads, middle, etc. instead of TempoF.

            On re-reading your reply I noticed the same. In the beginning of your reply
            you mark 175oF as the limit for foreshots, but then in th next paragraph you
            switch to %abv. Why not stay with oF? Does 75%abv for the limit of the
            middle + some tails giv you a better value to work with than say 96oC? Is
            %abv a less varying measure during a run, than temp in th column head?
            John V





            cornfed62 wrote:

            > John
            >
            > The most important aspect of observing temperature is to make sure
            > that you do not save any foreshots as beverage. Anything collected
            > before the still head reachs 172 degrees (f) should be discarded or
            > used as charcoal lighter. From there on you would be better off
            > using your nose to detect if the heads are finished or not. Then
            > experience will tell you when the tails start coming over. Some
            > people save more tails into their product than others. This is
            > according to taste. Of course everything I just typed about flavor
            > is assuming that you are using a grain mash. If you are using a
            > sugar wash, then the nasties that make you use carbon treatment are
            > in the cogners.
            >
            > For me I let the still equalize in total reflux for 2 hours and then
            > draw off the foreshots and then let it equalize for another 1/2 hour.
            > Then I draw off the heads until I cant detect a foul smell. These I
            > save and add to a container labled "faints". Then I distill the
            > middle run and a portion of the tails. I run this phase until I reach
            > 75 pct ABV. These are saved in my 'product' containers. Then
            > everything else is distilled out until 65 pct and placed into the
            > feints container. Then I distill everything else out of the wash that
            > I can get. I stop when still head temps reach 205 or so degrees
            > (f). Everything in this portion goes into a container
            > labled 'redistill'. If you 'throw everything away' then you will
            > be sending perfectly good ethanol down the drain. It might not be
            > beverage quality right now, but it will be excellant stock to make a
            > clear vodka from.
            >
            > Those are my thoughts anyway.
            >
            > cheers
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
            > wrote:
            > > Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate
            > fractions with a
            > > reflux column - i.e.
            > > - what is the temperature limit for the 'foreshot',
            > > - what is the temp. range for 'middle',
            > > - and what is it for the 'tails'? Or is everything left over after
            > the middle
            > > called tails?
            > >
            > > Do I have it right - is the temp. what one uses?
            > >
            > > I have read that the tails can be saved/added to the next batch.
            > Is that
            > > correct? Or do I throw away everything left over after the middle
            > cut?
            > >
            > > John V.
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • John Vandermeulen
            hello Ken Campbell, thanks for the great reply. I had in fact wondered about that foreshot area - the stuff up to 79oC. With my reflux column I get very
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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              hello Ken Campbell,
              thanks for the great reply. I had in fact wondered about that foreshot area -
              the stuff up to 79oC. With my reflux column I get very little before than, but
              I was expecting the 50mL. So I was puzzled about that temp. region .

              18 HOURS?? How many litres/gallons is a 'run' for you? Do you walk away from
              it during? Have a night's sleep?



              klcampbell wrote:

              > John,Yes temperature is the indication of exactly what you are getting from
              > a sugar wash.
              > Some drops appear at 48oC,possible ether or some other low boiling
              > substance.Then at about 68oC you get a few more drops,don't ask me what they
              > are as I am a dumb toolmaker but if you have precise control of the heating
              > system you will see these few drops appear.The low 70's are when you get
              > some more but they are low in volume and then the temperature is usually
              > going crazy,fluctuations of up to 10oc.
              > You now have the Nasties knocking on the door,fore shots or what ever people
              > want to call them.
              > HASTEN SLOWLY,If you take off the fore shots slowly and observe the
              > temperature,it will stabilise@close to 78.oC,Mine does @ 79.oC,but I am very
              > close to sea level and it will remain there for close to 18 hours during the
              > run and produce at 96.5% for the entire duration and when the temperature
              > increase by 3/10 of one degree the product just stops.This indicates the end
              > of the purest fraction and I often just pour the rest down the drain.Not so
              > with a grain wash which has to be run twice,but that is my new learning
              > curve for this year.
              > Hoping this helps,Regards,Ken.
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "John Vandermeulen" <vandermeulen@...>
              > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 9:50
              > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] reflux
              >
              > > Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate fractions
              > with a
              > > reflux column - i.e.
              > > - what is the temperature limit for the 'foreshot',
              > > - what is the temp. range for 'middle',
              > > - and what is it for the 'tails'? Or is everything left over after the
              > middle
              > > called tails?
              > >
              > > Do I have it right - is the temp. what one uses?
              > >
              > > I have read that the tails can be saved/added to the next batch. Is that
              > > correct? Or do I throw away everything left over after the middle cut?
              > >
              > > John V.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • cornfed62
              John What I have found from operating mine is that the temperatures refer to the different fractals of pure components in vapor state. I start off with my
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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                John

                What I have found from operating mine is that the temperatures refer
                to the different fractals of pure components in vapor state. I start
                off with my still in total reflux and equalized. Which means all of
                the differnt component gasses have stacked themselves up in a nice
                neat orderly column. The gasses at the top are not ethanol so they
                have a lower temperature. SO I draw them off until I get into the
                temperature range for ethanol. Then I stop and wait a short period of
                time to allow things to stack up again and to make sure I dont have
                anymore paint thinner in solution. I ferment grains so I tend to have
                more methanol and acetates than if I were to use a sugar solution.

                But what happens, according to my understanding, is that as soon as
                you start to remove material, then the column is no longer eqaulized
                and attempts to correct that little detail by moving more vapor up.

                If you draw off at a faster rate than what the column can compensate
                for.. then your temperatures will be 'other than ideal'. So I use
                temps for the beginning portion and the end portion and use ABV
                percentages for the rest. The cut off ABV for the beverage run is
                one that delivers the "taste" that I like before oaking. Your cutoff
                point will no doubt be differnet. I am far from being a master
                distiller, but this works for me. I am sure you will develope a
                technique that works for you and your equipment characteristics.

                Cheers


                --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                wrote:
                And noticed that some folks (including Tony A.) use
                > %ABV as marking limits to heads, middle, etc. instead of TempoF.
                >
                Is
                > %abv a less varying measure during a run, than temp in th column
                head?
              • ups474@aol.com
                Actually, yes % of alcohol is a more reliable method of measuring cutoff points than temperature is. Thermometer placement in a still can cause a major
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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                  Actually, yes % of alcohol is a more reliable method of measuring cutoff
                  points than temperature is. Thermometer placement in a still can cause a
                  major difference in how the temp is read. Everyone's still is different- the
                  % is more likely to give predictable results, where the temp can be off by
                  more than 10F either high or low- giving the wrong results when duplication
                  of anothers' run is being tried.
                • John Vandermeulen
                  Hello cornfed, Very lucid, as always. A couple of quick ones..... I start off with my still in total reflux and equalized. Which means all of the differnt
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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                    Hello cornfed,
                    Very lucid, as always. A couple of quick ones.....

                    " I start off with my still in total reflux and equalized. Which means all
                    of the differnt component gasses have stacked themselves up in a nice neat
                    orderly column. The gasses at the top are not ethanol so they have a lower
                    temperature. SO I draw them off until I get into the
                    temperature range for ethanol. " Are you reading the temp. off a
                    thermometer located in the head of the column? (knowing you have a
                    Nixon-type still).

                    " I ferment grains so I tend to have more methanol and acetates than if I
                    were to use a sugar solution. " I want to get back to you on the fermented
                    grain product, after I get this sugar/water reflux still sorted out.

                    John V
                  • cornfed62
                    Yes the thermometer is located at the top of the reflux column. Before the vapors get to the condensor and right after they come off the packing. I am by no
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 14, 2002
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                      Yes the thermometer is located at the top of the reflux column.
                      Before the vapors get to the condensor and right after they come off
                      the packing.

                      I am by no means an expert, and I dont want to come off sounding like
                      one. I just understand the theory and operation of my still. But I
                      will try to answer any question that I can, and will tell you when I
                      cant. There are alot more people here who can answer these questions
                      also.

                      I am learning the grain ferment side of things also. I just have been
                      able to get some success. I wonder sometimes if the extra work and
                      steps are worth the final product. I am trying to get a pot still
                      product from a reflux still and also using an electric heating
                      element. This isnt an user friendly combination. I will know in
                      about a year when my first attempts come off the oak.

                      I plan to switch to a sugar wash here soon as my grains are about
                      used up from the fall harvest and I want to have some clear spirit to
                      make liquours from. Summer time is too busy for me to run a still
                      so I stock up during the winter months.

                      Cheers
                    • klcampbell
                      G day John,I usually strip 50ltrs and end up with around 18 ltrs @36-40%,this is from 2 fermenters of sugar wash,I then set up and turn on around 11pm and go
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 15, 2002
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                        G'day John,I usually strip 50ltrs and end up with around 18 ltrs
                        @36-40%,this is from 2 fermenters of sugar wash,I then set up and turn on
                        around 11pm and go to bed.Next morning the tower is in a state of total
                        reflux and I start taking the fore shots off around 6-30 am,by 8am
                        everything is coming over @ top % and I keep an eye on it and change jars
                        every 2 ltrs and know when it is about time to expect the tails to start
                        coming over.
                        If you have unexpected guests arrive during the day I usually just turn the
                        temperature down by 10 degrees or so and wait for them to go then turn it
                        back up again and you are soon back in production,the same thing also if you
                        haven't finished at night and you do not want to leave it running while you
                        are asleep,just turn the temperature down by 10-15 degrees.I know a lot of
                        our members will say I am mad for leaving the unit unattended but I have put
                        a lot of effort into my control systems and am very confident in this
                        setup,the next thing to add is a pressure switch that will turn off the
                        power to the kettle if I have a cooling water failure.Hope this
                        helps,Regards,Ken.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "John Vandermeulen" <vandermeulen@...>
                        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2002 2:03
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] reflux


                        > hello Ken Campbell,
                        > thanks for the great reply. I had in fact wondered about that foreshot
                        area -
                        > the stuff up to 79oC. With my reflux column I get very little before
                        than, but
                        > I was expecting the 50mL. So I was puzzled about that temp. region .
                        >
                        > 18 HOURS?? How many litres/gallons is a 'run' for you? Do you walk away
                        from
                        > it during? Have a night's sleep?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > klcampbell wrote:
                        >
                        > > John,Yes temperature is the indication of exactly what you are getting
                        from
                        > > a sugar wash.
                        > > Some drops appear at 48oC,possible ether or some other low boiling
                        > > substance.Then at about 68oC you get a few more drops,don't ask me what
                        they
                        > > are as I am a dumb toolmaker but if you have precise control of the
                        heating
                        > > system you will see these few drops appear.The low 70's are when you get
                        > > some more but they are low in volume and then the temperature is usually
                        > > going crazy,fluctuations of up to 10oc.
                        > > You now have the Nasties knocking on the door,fore shots or what ever
                        people
                        > > want to call them.
                        > > HASTEN SLOWLY,If you take off the fore shots slowly and observe the
                        > > temperature,it will stabilise@close to 78.oC,Mine does @ 79.oC,but I am
                        very
                        > > close to sea level and it will remain there for close to 18 hours during
                        the
                        > > run and produce at 96.5% for the entire duration and when the
                        temperature
                        > > increase by 3/10 of one degree the product just stops.This indicates the
                        end
                        > > of the purest fraction and I often just pour the rest down the drain.Not
                        so
                        > > with a grain wash which has to be run twice,but that is my new learning
                        > > curve for this year.
                        > > Hoping this helps,Regards,Ken.
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: "John Vandermeulen" <vandermeulen@...>
                        > > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 9:50
                        > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] reflux
                        > >
                        > > > Will someone tell me the cut-offs for the various distillate fractions
                        > > with a
                        > > > reflux column - i.e.
                        > > > - what is the temperature limit for the 'foreshot',
                        > > > - what is the temp. range for 'middle',
                        > > > - and what is it for the 'tails'? Or is everything left over after
                        the
                        > > middle
                        > > > called tails?
                        > > >
                        > > > Do I have it right - is the temp. what one uses?
                        > > >
                        > > > I have read that the tails can be saved/added to the next batch. Is
                        that
                        > > > correct? Or do I throw away everything left over after the middle
                        cut?
                        > > >
                        > > > John V.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • cornfed62
                        Ken I would be very interested in how you go about achieving accurate control of the temperatures. My still and operation would benefit by leaps and bounds
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 15, 2002
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                          Ken
                          I would be very interested in how you go about achieving accurate
                          control of the temperatures. My still and operation would benefit by
                          leaps and bounds with more control over temperature.
                          I accomplish it now by condensor action. You seem to control it at
                          the input end. Maybe a combination of the 2 would be even better. Do
                          you heat with gas or electric or steam?

                          Ken wrote:
                          I have put a lot of effort into my control systems and am very
                          confident in this setup,the next thing to add is a pressure switch
                          that will turn off the power to the kettle if I have a cooling water
                          failure.
                        • vandermeulen@ns.sympatico.ca
                          Ken, ditto for me. In fact, would you describe just how you manage the distillation from start to finish? John V
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 15, 2002
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                            Ken, ditto for me. In fact, would you describe just how you manage the
                            distillation from start to finish?
                            John V

                            cornfed62 wrote:

                            > Ken
                            > I would be very interested in how you go about achieving accurate
                            > control of the temperatures. My still and operation would benefit by
                            > leaps and bounds with more control over temperature.
                            > I accomplish it now by condensor action. You seem to control it at
                            > the input end. Maybe a combination of the 2 would be even better. Do
                            > you heat with gas or electric or steam?
                            >
                            > Ken wrote:
                            > I have put a lot of effort into my control systems and am very
                            > confident in this setup,the next thing to add is a pressure switch
                            > that will turn off the power to the kettle if I have a cooling water
                            > failure.
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • klcampbell
                            G day Cornfed,yes I use electric heating from a submersed element in through the side wall of the kettle,1850w.x240v.The PID controller is the heart of my
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 18, 2002
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                              G'day Cornfed,yes I use electric heating from a submersed element in through
                              the side wall of the kettle,1850w.x240v.The PID controller is the heart of
                              my system and is controlled by a "K" type thermocouple which is encased in a
                              8mm.dia. pure copper tube which penetrates into the vapour stream about
                              100mm.and is above the packing just where the vapour flows into the offset
                              arm of the Nixon/Stone tower.
                              The condenser is as per the book by Mike and John,nothing complicated but
                              very effective,top quality all of the time.I also fit a short tower only
                              450mm. high with a horizontal lynne arm which I use as a beer stripper, and
                              am experimenting with it as a pot still.This last use is my challenge for
                              2002.
                              I believe that if the heat source is under control and is capable of
                              adjusting to the requirements of the tower and only supplying the right
                              amount of heat to maintain the vapour temperature at the top of the tower
                              the product will be of the highest quality.It is now 12 months since I set
                              up this way and the more I run the more I am convinced that my theory is
                              correct.How I wish that we could all be together in a workshop situation and
                              see and compare the performance of various designed units,but I dream
                              again,Regards,Ken.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "cornfed62" <cornfed15@...>
                              To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, 16 January 2002 6:50
                              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: reflux


                              > Ken
                              > I would be very interested in how you go about achieving accurate
                              > control of the temperatures. My still and operation would benefit by
                              > leaps and bounds with more control over temperature.
                              > I accomplish it now by condensor action. You seem to control it at
                              > the input end. Maybe a combination of the 2 would be even better. Do
                              > you heat with gas or electric or steam?
                              >
                              > Ken wrote:
                              > I have put a lot of effort into my control systems and am very
                              > confident in this setup,the next thing to add is a pressure switch
                              > that will turn off the power to the kettle if I have a cooling water
                              > failure.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • jim o
                              still getting ready to try my first go at this stuff.. I am getting some conflicting info. I am interested in making whiskey. To date I think I understand that
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                still getting ready to try my first go at this stuff.. I am getting
                                some conflicting info. I am interested in making whiskey. To date I
                                think I understand that a pot still will make nice, tasty whiskey that
                                must be cooked a couple times. My still, which I got on ebay, is a
                                reflux with two insulated, column sections that can be attached to a 10
                                gal, stainless milk can. the top section has the cooling coils, hoses
                                and condenser. Theoretically, If I remove the 2d straight column and
                                only use the one with the condenser and hoses it will, in effect be
                                much like a pot still. Is that my only hope for whiskey? According to
                                much that I read, the product that comes out of the reflux is little
                                more than high proof vodka. Can that vodka be cut and seasoned in, or
                                with, oak to taste like a passable whiskey?
                              • enibnikrib
                                ... Jim I recently toured the Makers Mark distillery, they use a column still to strip the mash, then use a doubler after that. Jack Daniels, an also Dickels
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 31, 2006
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                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jim o" <jmoneil1947@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  Jim
                                  I recently toured the Makers Mark distillery, they use a column still
                                  to strip the mash, then use a doubler after that. Jack Daniels, an
                                  also Dickels distillery uses the same process, if you want to make
                                  your whiskey taste like store bought, take some Jack Daniels smoking
                                  chips that are used for out door cooking on the grill, an let it soak
                                  on that for a while, tastes much better.
                                  >
                                  happy new year
                                  Luke
                                • Link D'Antoni
                                  Jim o, Sounds like you are on the right tack. I d suggest that you invest a little time in www.homedistiller.org It will give a really big head start
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 31, 2006
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                                    Jim o,

                                    Sounds like you are on the right tack.

                                    I'd suggest that you invest a little time in
                                    www.homedistiller.org It will give a really big head
                                    start understanding the process.

                                    Link



                                    --- jim o <jmoneil1947@...> wrote:

                                    > still getting ready to try my first go at this
                                    > stuff.. I am getting
                                    > some conflicting info. I am interested in making
                                    > whiskey. To date I
                                    > think I understand that a pot still will make nice,
                                    > tasty whiskey that
                                    > must be cooked a couple times. My still, which I got
                                    > on ebay, is a
                                    > reflux with two insulated, column sections that can
                                    > be attached to a 10
                                    > gal, stainless milk can. the top section has the
                                    > cooling coils, hoses
                                    > and condenser. Theoretically, If I remove the 2d
                                    > straight column and
                                    > only use the one with the condenser and hoses it
                                    > will, in effect be
                                    > much like a pot still. Is that my only hope for
                                    > whiskey? According to
                                    > much that I read, the product that comes out of the
                                    > reflux is little
                                    > more than high proof vodka. Can that vodka be cut
                                    > and seasoned in, or
                                    > with, oak to taste like a passable whiskey?
                                    >
                                    >


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                                  • iangeddie
                                    let me ask a quick question does a higher water flow rate make it reflux more less or none?
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                                      let me ask a quick question does a higher water flow rate make it
                                      reflux more less or none?
                                    • tyler_97355
                                      IF you are using a cooling management still, then a higher cooling rate will cause more reflux. -Tyler
                                      Message 18 of 21 , May 1 4:17 AM
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                                        IF you are using a cooling management still, then a higher cooling
                                        rate will cause more reflux.

                                        -Tyler



                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "iangeddie" <iangeddie@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > let me ask a quick question does a higher water flow rate make it
                                        > reflux more less or none?
                                        >
                                      • bigdaddyg851
                                        i might be asking for alot, but anybody out there have detailed instructions or a web site for a valved reflux design stiil. i want to step up from a swans
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                          i might be asking for alot, but anybody out there have detailed instructions or a web site for a valved reflux design stiil. i want to step up from a swans neck still that took me about 2hrs to build .it works,it taste fine but i am sure my pecent of Alcohol is low though it taste stong i just orderd a Alcoholmeter.
                                        • ric
                                          By all means build a valved reflux still. However if you want simplicity of construction and operation a combination of a Bokakob LM still with a VM addition
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                            By all means build a valved reflux still.
                                            However if you want simplicity of construction and operation a combination of a Bokakob LM still with a VM addition makes a lot of sense.
                                            First being you take your foreshots and tails via the LM path; reserving VM for the product part of the run. That way your collection path is never contaminated.
                                            Plus VM must be the ultimate in simplicity of operation.



                                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > i might be asking for alot, but anybody out there have detailed instructions or a web site for a valved reflux design stiil. i want to step up from a swans neck still that took me about 2hrs to build .it works,it taste fine but i am sure my pecent of Alcohol is low though it taste stong i just orderd a Alcoholmeter.
                                            >
                                          • tgfoitwoods
                                            Daddy, You need to make a decision whether you want taste or strength, natural flavors or high-ABV, Scotch whisky or (literally) rocket fuel. These two
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Dec 4, 2009
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                                              Daddy,

                                              You need to make a decision whether you want taste or strength, natural flavors or high-ABV, Scotch whisky or (literally) rocket fuel. These two endeavors are not completely mutually exclusive, but they are usually at odds with each other.

                                              A potstill is the logical choice for naturally liquor flavors, while a reflux still is the logical choice for flavorless ethanol-water azeotrope, which you can dilute and to which you can add artificial flavors.

                                              It's a choice.

                                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "bigdaddyg851" <bigdaddyg851@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > i might be asking for alot, but anybody out there have detailed instructions or a web site for a valved reflux design stiil. i want to step up from a swans neck still that took me about 2hrs to build .it works,it taste fine but i am sure my pecent of Alcohol is low though it taste stong i just orderd a Alcoholmeter.
                                              >
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