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Mash getting a little old

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  • Gary
    Hi all! I have fermented my first mash following all of the advice I have found here and elsewhere. It came out quite nice it tastes like a dry white wine
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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      Hi all!

      I have fermented my first mash following all of the advice I have
      found here and elsewhere. It came out quite nice it tastes like a dry
      white wine smells ok and is quite clear. My first hydrometer
      experience said it was 14%.

      I was not quite as ready to distill as I had thought so I syphoned
      off the clear liquid (three times), lightly vacuume sealed it and put
      it into the refrigerator. I plan to use this as my first run but my
      question is: How long can I expect this to stay fresh in the 'frige?

      Even if it goes sour I will still use it for the first run just for
      the learning experience. I'd just like to know what to expect.

      A second question is what do you floks feel about freeze distilling?
      I have a very small boiler (about 500 Ml/run)so I was thinking about
      freezing my mash and thawing out about 50% of the volume to reduce
      the number of runs required. Does this sound like a reasonable thing
      to do?

      Thanks in advance

      Gary.
    • Harry
      Comments inline... ... dry ... put ... my ... the frige? .............Several months, providing you didn t get too much air contact during all that syphoning.
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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        Comments inline...


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <fly_boy_bc@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all!
        >
        > I have fermented my first mash following all of the advice I have
        > found here and elsewhere. It came out quite nice it tastes like a
        dry
        > white wine smells ok and is quite clear. My first hydrometer
        > experience said it was 14%.


        ............Sounds fine.

        >
        > I was not quite as ready to distill as I had thought so I syphoned
        > off the clear liquid (three times), lightly vacuume sealed it and
        put
        > it into the refrigerator. I plan to use this as my first run but
        my
        > question is: How long can I expect this to stay fresh in
        the 'frige?



        .............Several months, providing you didn't get too much air
        contact during all that syphoning. Airborne bacteria can cause
        problems if they contact the wash for an extended period. However
        the refrigeration will largely prevent too much damage.

        >
        > Even if it goes sour I will still use it for the first run just
        for
        > the learning experience. I'd just like to know what to expect.
        >
        > A second question is what do you floks feel about freeze
        distilling?


        ...........Freezing mash then distilling the thaw is common
        practice. Make nice clean alcohol, ok for vodkas & other white
        spirits but removes a bit of the flavour congeners in ethanol
        destined for brown spirits.



        > I have a very small boiler (about 500 Ml/run)so I was thinking
        about
        > freezing my mash and thawing out about 50% of the volume to reduce
        > the number of runs required. Does this sound like a reasonable
        thing
        > to do?



        ..........500ml boiler? Gary, that's not worth the effort! Think
        about this...you've got 14% wash, best you'll recover (due to
        losses) is 10%. That's 50ml per pot. And forget about being able
        to separate any heads, hearts, tails with such a small amount. Not
        possible. So you'll be drinking crap.

        Do yourself a favour. Build a still with AT LEAST a 15 litre
        boiler. Otherwise you're just playing games.
        >
        > Thanks in advance
        >
        > Gary.
        >

        You're welcome.
        Slainte!
        regards Harry
        Moderator
      • donald holcombe
        How cold do you think it will have to get to freeze this wash ? ... From: Gary To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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          How cold do you think it will have to get to freeze this wash ?

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Gary <fly_boy_bc@...>
          To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:02:50 PM
          Subject: [new_distillers] Mash getting a little old

          Hi all!

          I have fermented my first mash following all of the advice I have
          found here and elsewhere. It came out quite nice it tastes like a dry
          white wine smells ok and is quite clear. My first hydrometer
          experience said it was 14%.

          I was not quite as ready to distill as I had thought so I syphoned
          off the clear liquid (three times), lightly vacuume sealed it and put
          it into the refrigerator. I plan to use this as my first run but my
          question is: How long can I expect this to stay fresh in the 'frige?

          Even if it goes sour I will still use it for the first run just for
          the learning experience. I'd just like to know what to expect.

          A second question is what do you floks feel about freeze distilling?
          I have a very small boiler (about 500 Ml/run)so I was thinking about
          freezing my mash and thawing out about 50% of the volume to reduce
          the number of runs required. Does this sound like a reasonable thing
          to do?

          Thanks in advance

          Gary.




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        • Harry
          ... I regularly put 20 litre buckets of 12% wash in the deepfreeze if I m doing vodkas. After 3 days I ve got a solid bucket of ice with a small core of
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, donald holcombe
            <blackledge_02@...> wrote:
            >
            > How cold do you think it will have to get to freeze this wash ?



            I regularly put 20 litre buckets of 12% wash in the deepfreeze if I'm
            doing vodkas. After 3 days I've got a solid bucket of ice with a
            small core of liquid and mush. Ethanol won't freeze at home
            deepfreeze temps, but water will. I use the liquid & mush, plus
            whatever thaws out as a still charge (reflux still). Any ice
            remaining I thaw out and re-use for the next fermenter batch. I don't
            have any problems with stuck fermentations, so I guess there's not
            much ethanol left in the remaining ice mush.


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • donald holcombe
            RECYCLEING ! Ilike to reuse any thing i can I never tried this ,but I think I might. ... From: Harry To:
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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              RECYCLEING ! Ilike to reuse any thing i can
              I never tried this ,but I think I might.

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Harry <gnikomson2000@...>
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:40:41 PM
              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mash getting a little old

              --- In new_distillers@ yahoogroups. com, donald holcombe
              <blackledge_ 02@...> wrote:

              >
              > How cold do you think it will have to get to freeze this wash ?

              I regularly put 20 litre buckets of 12% wash in the deepfreeze if I'm
              doing vodkas. After 3 days I've got a solid bucket of ice with a
              small core of liquid and mush. Ethanol won't freeze at home
              deepfreeze temps, but water will. I use the liquid & mush, plus
              whatever thaws out as a still charge (reflux still). Any ice
              remaining I thaw out and re-use for the next fermenter batch. I don't
              have any problems with stuck fermentations, so I guess there's not
              much ethanol left in the remaining ice mush.

              Slainte!
              regards Harry




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            • Gary
              ... 15 litre? Does it really need to be that big? I knew mine was tiny and since you explained it (very well I might add) I will go bigger but can t I run
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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                > ..........500ml boiler? Gary, that's not worth the effort! Think
                > about this...you've got 14% wash, best you'll recover (due to
                > losses) is 10%. That's 50ml per pot. And forget about being able
                > to separate any heads, hearts, tails with such a small amount. Not
                > possible. So you'll be drinking crap.
                >
                > Do yourself a favour. Build a still with AT LEAST a 15 litre
                > boiler. Otherwise you're just playing games.
                > >
                > >

                15 litre? Does it really need to be that big? I knew mine was tiny
                and since you explained it (very well I might add) I will go bigger
                but can't I run little 2-3 litre batches? Do you think I should be
                able to separate the run with careful use of a thermostatic
                controller? My condenser can handle 15 litres but I just wanted a
                smaller set-up.

                Since I use a thermostat I put the thermometer in the thumper to
                monitor what is really happening on the "head". If you know what I
                mean.

                Thanx again.

                GBGB
              • Harry
                ... Think ... able ... Not ... bigger ... Smallest I have ever attempted is 5 litres, and that was a pain in the ass. I finished up doing several 5-lt runs,
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <fly_boy_bc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > ..........500ml boiler? Gary, that's not worth the effort!
                  Think
                  > > about this...you've got 14% wash, best you'll recover (due to
                  > > losses) is 10%. That's 50ml per pot. And forget about being
                  able
                  > > to separate any heads, hearts, tails with such a small amount.
                  Not
                  > > possible. So you'll be drinking crap.
                  > >
                  > > Do yourself a favour. Build a still with AT LEAST a 15 litre
                  > > boiler. Otherwise you're just playing games.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > 15 litre? Does it really need to be that big? I knew mine was tiny
                  > and since you explained it (very well I might add) I will go
                  bigger
                  > but can't I run little 2-3 litre batches? Do you think I should be
                  > able to separate the run with careful use of a thermostatic
                  > controller? My condenser can handle 15 litres but I just wanted a
                  > smaller set-up.
                  >
                  > Since I use a thermostat I put the thermometer in the thumper to
                  > monitor what is really happening on the "head". If you know what I
                  > mean.
                  >
                  > Thanx again.
                  >
                  > GBGB
                  >


                  Smallest I have ever attempted is 5 litres, and that was a pain in
                  the ass. I finished up doing several 5-lt runs, saving the results,
                  then using that as the charge (no dilution) for a slow 2nd run. But
                  this method is dangerous because the strength of that 2nd charge is
                  well over 50% ethanol. This strength is highly flammable, so ANY
                  vapour leakages, sparks, flames, other ignition sources, is a recipe
                  for blowing a big hole in something, hopefully not your body!

                  IF you survive, shrapnel can be a bitch to pick outta your hide. Of
                  course a few drinks will numb the pain for a while. :)

                  Whenever you do strip runs then 2nds, ALWAYS dilute the 2nd charge
                  with clean water to below 40% abv. Boiling a fluid that's the
                  equivalent of gasoline is not wise. Go with a bigger boiler.


                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • Gary Boyco
                  THANK you Harrry, I have read that I should dilute to 40% or less but I wasn t (forgot) sure why... Safety first. GBGB ... Now that s room service! Choose from
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 25, 2007
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                    THANK you Harrry,
                     
                    I have read that I should dilute to 40% or less but I wasn't (forgot) sure why...
                     
                    Safety first.
                     
                    GBGB


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                    to find your fit.
                  • Jan Wouter Wouter
                    ... Opinions may defer about the size. I have been using a still made from a 6 liter presure cooker for quite some time now and am perfectly happy with it.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 26, 2007
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                      2007/2/26, Gary <fly_boy_bc@...>:
                      > 15 litre? Does it really need to be that big? I knew mine was tiny
                      > and since you explained it (very well I might add) I will go bigger
                      > but can't I run little 2-3 litre batches? Do you think I should be
                      > able to separate the run with careful use of a thermostatic
                      > controller? My condenser can handle 15 litres but I just wanted a
                      > smaller set-up.

                      Opinions may defer about the size. I have been using a still made from
                      a 6 liter presure cooker for quite some time now and am perfectly
                      happy with it.
                      It's a stove operated setup, and I use it in the kitchen.
                      I make a 10 liter wash and run this in two batches. I make a cut based
                      on temperature and the tails I put together from both runs, dillute
                      and redistill.

                      Jan Wouter
                    • Gary Boyco
                      Heh...The best I can hope for in a home freezer is to freeze all of the water in the mash. The good stuff will not freeze at all. ... Any questions? Get
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 27, 2007
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                        Heh...The best I can hope for in a home freezer is to freeze all of the water in the mash. The good stuff will not freeze at all.
                         
                         


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                      • Jan Wouter Wouter
                        When I put a bottle of jenever (dutch gin 40%) in my freezer it will freeze. Jan Wouter
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 27, 2007
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                          When I put a bottle of jenever (dutch gin 40%) in my freezer it will freeze.
                          Jan Wouter

                          2007/2/27, Gary Boyco <fly_boy_bc@...>:
                          Heh...The best I can hope for in a home freezer is to freeze all of the water in the mash. The good stuff will not freeze at all.
                           
                           

                        • abbababbaccc
                          Well, I once tried some 25 liters of not so good beer in -30C and it almost froze solid. There was some 2-3dl very nasty stuff left at the core. By all the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 27, 2007
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                            Well, I once tried some 25 liters of not so good beer in -30C and it
                            almost froze solid. There was some 2-3dl very nasty stuff left at the
                            core. By all the trouble, time and frozen fingers it took I consider
                            it not to be worth it.

                            Cheers, Riku

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gary Boyco <fly_boy_bc@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Heh...The best I can hope for in a home freezer is to freeze all of
                            the water in the mash. The good stuff will not freeze at all.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it
                            now.
                            >
                          • gff_stwrt
                            Hi, Riku, hi folks, Riku, I have found freezing to work O.K. It is actually quite simple although you will possibly not increase the ABV a lot. But there is
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 1, 2007
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                              Hi, Riku, hi folks,

                              Riku, I have found freezing to work O.K. It is actually quite
                              simple although you will possibly not increase the ABV a lot. But
                              there is practically no effort involved, either. Last time I did it I
                              froze 6 casks of 10 % ABV wine (really cheap and fairly nasty) and
                              removed, from the 24 litres, about 4 litres of extremely low
                              alcohol 'water'. Just the tiniest taste of the wine left in it.

                              I froze the wine to -20 degrees C. The simplest way to do it is to
                              freeze it in upside-down containers (with a lid, of course), but the
                              normal way up is probably O.K.
                              Just be sure, if it's upside down, that the lid fits securely!
                              The cask wine I froze in the casks, upside down, and cut the ends
                              off when frozen.

                              When the wine ( whatever) is frozen take the lid off and stand the
                              frozen product on a grill or something with holes in it, with the
                              open end of the container downward, and a suitable sized container
                              under it. After a short time slide the bucket you froze it in upwards
                              off the ice.

                              If it is frozen in a domestic freezer, or one which is not really
                              cold, cut off the mushy sort of ice from the top from time to time
                              (before it turns to liquid) and throw it on the garden; not more
                              often than each half hour, say.

                              The lot I did at -20 degrees C. I was able to leave for around 4
                              hours without doing anything to it at all, then just scrape the
                              remaining little bit of alcohol-and-water mush out of the bottom of
                              the 'ice' that was left. Use a big spoon or something. No frozen
                              fingers. No problems.

                              If you are going to be watching your still anyway, it is easy to do
                              this at the same time.

                              Regards

                              The Baker



                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                              <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Well, I once tried some 25 liters of not so good beer in -30C and
                              it
                              > almost froze solid. There was some 2-3dl very nasty stuff left at
                              the
                              > core. By all the trouble, time and frozen fingers it took I
                              consider
                              > it not to be worth it.
                              >
                              > Cheers, Riku
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gary Boyco <fly_boy_bc@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Heh...The best I can hope for in a home freezer is to freeze all
                              of
                              > the water in the mash. The good stuff will not freeze at all.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ---------------------------------
                              > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try
                              it
                              > now.
                              > >
                              >
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