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Re: Frac /reflux still designs

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  • abbababbaccc
    A VM still with oversized product condenser and topcap ventilation valve gives better results in both categories. Cheers, Riku ... faster ... {german
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 29, 2007
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      A VM still with oversized product condenser and topcap ventilation
      valve gives better results in both categories.

      Cheers, Riku

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "marquee.moon"
      <marquee.moon@...> wrote:
      >
      > A simple still is the ministill as designed by bokakob. Find the
      > plans in the 'files' section. Run it slowly for clean vodka or
      faster
      > with less packing for flavoured spirits such as whiskey.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sbr_f" <sbr_f@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hey all
      > >
      > > Iam a newbee to stills Ive been brewing beer since i was 13
      {german
      > > parents} I would like to build a still that can make a very clean
      > > product
      > > or operate as pot still for bourbon . I have access to all the
      > copper
      > > I need up to 3". Any ideas on best designs and access to same
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > >
      > > Fred S
      > >
      >
    • kirtgk
      hey riku have you made this VM still? if so could you post some plans for it and maybee some pictures in photos? id be very interested in building one for
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 29, 2007
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        hey riku
        have you made this VM still? if so could you post some plans for it
        and maybee some pictures in photos? id be very interested in building
        one for myself. i like neutral etho, and have recently started some
        strawberry ferments that id like to make into schnaps, brandy.??? not
        sure what the correct term for this would be. also my brother and some
        other friends are after me to turn out whiskey as close to the flavor
        of crown royal as i can get it.thanks in advance when you do help out.

        BTW, any one got a recipe for something close to crown royal??

        thankyou all kirtgk


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
        <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
        >
        > A VM still with oversized product condenser and topcap ventilation
        > valve gives better results in both categories.
        >
        > Cheers, Riku
      • abbababbaccc
        I ve made some and they work very well. I can t find my sketches now but here s a link to one guys drawing who almost got it right (never mind the language)
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 30, 2007
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          I've made some and they work very well. I can't find my sketches now
          but here's a link to one guys drawing who almost got it right (never
          mind the language) http://bildr.no/view/34094 You should have the
          product condenser as close to column as possible and have some 30-
          50cm drop before the product condenser. Mike Nixon's "Compleat
          distiller" is recommended reading if you are interested in building a
          VM system.

          Cheers, Riku

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@...> wrote:
          >
          > hey riku
          > have you made this VM still? if so could you post some plans for it
          > and maybee some pictures in photos? id be very interested in
          building
          > one for myself. i like neutral etho, and have recently started some
          > strawberry ferments that id like to make into schnaps, brandy.???
          not
          > sure what the correct term for this would be. also my brother and
          some
          > other friends are after me to turn out whiskey as close to the
          flavor
          > of crown royal as i can get it.thanks in advance when you do help
          out.
          >
          > BTW, any one got a recipe for something close to crown royal??
          >
          > thankyou all kirtgk
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
          > <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
          > >
          > > A VM still with oversized product condenser and topcap
          ventilation
          > > valve gives better results in both categories.
          > >
          > > Cheers, Riku
          >
        • sn_cur
          ... Hi Riku, Really appreciate your work, it has taught me a lot. I have some questions for you: I am just finishing my first rig, a 50 x 1800 mm VM column,
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 30, 2007
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            > You should have the
            > product condenser as close to column as possible and have some 30-
            > 50cm drop before the product condenser. Mike Nixon's "Compleat
            > distiller" is recommended reading if you are interested in building a
            > VM system.
            >
            > Cheers, Riku

            Hi Riku,

            Really appreciate your work, it has taught me a lot.

            I have some questions for you:

            I am just finishing my first rig, a 50 x 1800 mm VM column, and will be doing test runs on
            it this weekend.

            My product condenser is a 3/4" pipe inside a 1" jacket, and is 75 cm long. It sits 17-18 cm
            out from the column, and there is a 10 cm drop before hitting the condenser.

            Is the product condenser close enough to the column?

            How critical is the 30-50 cm drop before the product condenser, and why is it needed?

            Does the diameter or length of the product condenser affect the drop distance needed?

            I can't do much about the distance that the product condenser sticks out from the column,
            or the size of the condenser because it has already been made, but I can easily increase
            the drop to the condenser by up to 40 cm if necessary.

            It is worth trying my condenser set-up as it is first, before changing anything?

            Also, are you the same person as Alex/Bokabob?

            Thanks & Cheers

            SN
          • abbababbaccc
            The distance from column affects the time it takes for the output to start. In your application it is not critical, but for E-ARC version it should be kept to
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 30, 2007
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              The distance from column affects the time it takes for the output to
              start. In your application it is not critical, but for E-ARC version
              it should be kept to minimum.

              Drop before condenser directly affects the output speed by creating a
              chimney effect. Without it the output speed suffers as the drop
              accelerates vapor speed in column and creates an underpressure area.
              When this is combined with the slight overpressure in column the
              valve becomes a throttle body for all practical purposes.

              So yes, I do recommend you introduce the drop before condenser.

              And no, I have nothing to do with Alex.

              Cheers, Riku

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "sn_cur" <sn_cur@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Riku,
              >
              > Really appreciate your work, it has taught me a lot.
              >
              > I have some questions for you:
              >
              > I am just finishing my first rig, a 50 x 1800 mm VM column, and
              will be doing test runs on
              > it this weekend.
              >
              > My product condenser is a 3/4" pipe inside a 1" jacket, and is 75
              cm long. It sits 17-18 cm
              > out from the column, and there is a 10 cm drop before hitting the
              condenser.
              >
              > Is the product condenser close enough to the column?
              >
              > How critical is the 30-50 cm drop before the product condenser, and
              why is it needed?
              >
              > Does the diameter or length of the product condenser affect the
              drop distance needed?
              >
              > I can't do much about the distance that the product condenser
              sticks out from the column,
              > or the size of the condenser because it has already been made, but
              I can easily increase
              > the drop to the condenser by up to 40 cm if necessary.
              >
              > It is worth trying my condenser set-up as it is first, before
              changing anything?
              >
              > Also, are you the same person as Alex/Bokabob?
              >
              > Thanks & Cheers
              >
              > SN
              >
            • sn_cur
              Riku, Thanks for that, I ll make an drop extension before I run it up. Cheers SN
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 30, 2007
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                Riku,

                Thanks for that, I'll make an drop extension before I run it up.

                Cheers

                SN
              • abbababbaccc
                Writing things half a sleep before my morning cup of tea is never a good idea: The vaporspeed is accelerated inside the condenser arm, not the column. This in
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 30, 2007
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                  Writing things half a sleep before my morning cup of tea is never a
                  good idea: The vaporspeed is accelerated inside the condenser arm, not
                  the column. This in turn draws more vapor from the column and the speed
                  is further increased due to more vapor collapsing untill the valve
                  starts to limit the flow.

                  Cheers, Riku

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                  <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                  > Drop before condenser directly affects the output speed by creating a
                  > chimney effect. Without it the output speed suffers as the drop
                  > accelerates vapor speed in column and creates an underpressure area.
                  > When this is combined with the slight overpressure in column the
                  > valve becomes a throttle body for all practical purposes.
                  >
                • f seeber
                  Riku Thanks for all the info! What would be the approx through put if you up graded the column to 3 /76mm and about how tall should it be? I have ordered the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 31, 2007
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                    Riku

                    Thanks for all the info! What would be the approx through put if you up graded
                    the column to 3"/76mm and about how tall should it be? I have ordered the complete distiller!

                    Thanks
                    Frede

                    sn_cur <sn_cur@...> wrote:
                    > You should have the
                    > product condenser as close to column as possible and have some 30-
                    > 50cm drop before the product condenser. Mike Nixon's "Compleat
                    > distiller" is recommended reading if you are interested in building a
                    > VM system.
                    >
                    > Cheers, Riku

                    Hi Riku,

                    Really appreciate your work, it has taught me a lot.

                    I have some questions for you:

                    I am just finishing my first rig, a 50 x 1800 mm VM column, and will be doing test runs on
                    it this weekend.

                    My product condenser is a 3/4" pipe inside a 1" jacket, and is 75 cm long. It sits 17-18 cm
                    out from the column, and there is a 10 cm drop before hitting the condenser.

                    Is the product condenser close enough to the column?

                    How critical is the 30-50 cm drop before the product condenser, and why is it needed?

                    Does the diameter or length of the product condenser affect the drop distance needed?

                    I can't do much about the distance that the product condenser sticks out from the column,
                    or the size of the condenser because it has already been made, but I can easily increase
                    the drop to the condenser by up to 40 cm if necessary.

                    It is worth trying my condenser set-up as it is first, before changing anything?

                    Also, are you the same person as Alex/Bokabob?

                    Thanks & Cheers

                    SN



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                  • abbababbaccc
                    Frede, You can run a 3 column at 2kW. With that power you can get about 1.5- 2 liters/hour 95.6% ethanol at the beginning of the run. 1 meter packed height
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 31, 2007
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                      Frede,

                      You can run a 3" column at 2kW. With that power you can get about 1.5-
                      2 liters/hour 95.6% ethanol at the beginning of the run. 1 meter packed
                      height works ok, but with ~1.5m packed height you get some safety
                      margin and can use numerically lower reflux ratio. I wouldn't recommend
                      using less than 1 meter unless you really know how to build and operate
                      stills.

                      Cheers, Riku

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, f seeber <sbr_f@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Riku
                      >
                      > Thanks for all the info! What would be the approx through put if you
                      up graded
                      > the column to 3"/76mm and about how tall should it be? I have ordered
                      the complete distiller!
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      > Frede
                      >
                    • needragonn
                      Riku, Can you explain what at topcap ventilation valve is? ie. How it works/benefits? Also do you have plans?
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 31, 2007
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                        Riku,

                        Can you explain what at "topcap ventilation valve" is?
                        ie. How it works/benefits?

                        Also do you have plans?


                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                        <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > A VM still with oversized product condenser and topcap ventilation
                        > valve gives better results in both categories.
                        >
                        > Cheers, Riku
                        >
                      • abbababbaccc
                        Well, as we all know a reflux still can be built with open top and in fact it needs to be open to atmosphere. Some designs use a cap on top of the column with
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 31, 2007
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                          Well, as we all know a reflux still can be built with open top and in
                          fact it needs to be open to atmosphere. Some designs use a cap on top
                          of the column with ventilation hole to cover inefficient top
                          condenser or just for good looks.

                          In this case we can use the cap for our advantage. We'll make a top
                          cap and for ventilation we have a simple ball valve (or similar) that
                          can be closed when necessary. With the cap in place, ventilation
                          closed, reflux condenser bypassed and product valve fully open the VM
                          still becomes a simple potstill with increased amount of internal
                          reflux due to packed column. Very good gear for making whiskey, rum
                          and brandies. You can either remove the packing or adjust the cut ABV
                          to somewhat higher level when using this rig as a potstill.

                          Note, having both valves in the system closed simultaneously is
                          dangerous and can lead to overpressure in the boiler.

                          Cheers, Riku

                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "needragonn" <needragonn@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Riku,
                          >
                          > Can you explain what at "topcap ventilation valve" is?
                          > ie. How it works/benefits?
                          >
                          > Also do you have plans?
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                          > <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > A VM still with oversized product condenser and topcap
                          ventilation
                          > > valve gives better results in both categories.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers, Riku
                          > >
                          >
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