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Re: Short term goals, long term stills

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  • Lindsay Williams
    Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have moved from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with water flows is just too
    Message 1 of 14 , May 2, 2006
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      Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have moved
      from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with water
      flows is just too depressing to contemplate!

      Cheers,
      Lindsay.

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
      <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
      >
      > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still with
      > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area of
      > the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be used
      > efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
      > plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
      > proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
      > double or tripple distillation in a potstill.
      >
      > - Riku
      >
      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
      > <richardt2005@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
      > > crossroads.
      > >
      > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
      > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
      > > brandy.
      > >
      > > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
      > copper
      > > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot scrubbers,
      > > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter. I'll
      > use
      > > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
      > > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double boiler,
      > the
      > > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar or
      > HFCS
      > > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
      > >
      > > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal. Any
      > > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
      > should
      > > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
      > >
      >
    • abbababbaccc
      No, a regular 1 meter packed column and a reflux coil on top of that (+ a reflux spreader/collar). Then from above that reflux coil you have connection to a
      Message 2 of 14 , May 2, 2006
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        No, a regular 1 meter packed column and a reflux coil on top of that (+
        a reflux spreader/collar). Then from above that reflux coil you have
        connection to a product condenser. Many of those old CM designs have
        through pipes at the packing area and that makes them both inefficient
        and difficult to disassemble.

        - Riku

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
        <richardt2005@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
        > <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
        > >
        > > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still
        > with
        > > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area
        > of
        > > the column).
        >
        > I can't quite picture it from your description.
        >
        > Something like a 4 foot column with the upper 1/3 packed, and that
        > part with a couple of cooling coils around the outside of the tower?
        >
      • abbababbaccc
        Using VM for flavored spirits is quite difficult since there s very little tails. The LM tends to have problems with valves not holding adjustments. If they
        Message 3 of 14 , May 2, 2006
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          Using VM for flavored spirits is quite difficult since there's very
          little tails. The LM tends to have problems with valves not holding
          adjustments. If they hold adjustment the RR is constant throughout
          the run which is not what happens in a potstill / short brandy
          column. With CM the RR increases some towards the end giving better
          emulation of the "real thing". The issue here was to have a rig that
          can produce neutral spirits and be good for flavored spirits - thus
          CM. If you do flavored spirits with CM you should have a small
          constant amount of cooling for the reflux condenser - ie. no messing
          with water flows. Also, using constant cooling (ambient air cooling
          as an example) and power control gets rid of those water flow
          problems.

          For just neutral spirits ARC and VM are your best choices, depending
          on the level of automation you want.

          - Riku

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
          <lindsay.nz@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have
          moved
          > from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with
          water
          > flows is just too depressing to contemplate!
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Lindsay.
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
          > <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
          > >
          > > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still
          with
          > > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area
          of
          > > the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be
          used
          > > efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
          > > plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
          > > proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
          > > double or tripple distillation in a potstill.
          > >
          > > - Riku
          > >
          > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
          > > <richardt2005@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself
          at a
          > > > crossroads.
          > > >
          > > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
          > > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored
          fruit
          > > > brandy.
          > > >
          > > > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
          > > copper
          > > > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot
          scrubbers,
          > > > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter.
          I'll
          > > use
          > > > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
          > > > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double
          boiler,
          > > the
          > > > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar
          or
          > > HFCS
          > > > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
          > > >
          > > > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal.
          Any
          > > > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
          > > should
          > > > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Trid
          ... If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a nice clean pot still. It s a simple start and it has the fewest parts, simplest setup, and allows
          Message 4 of 14 , May 2, 2006
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
            <richardt2005@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
            > crossroads.
            >
            > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
            > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
            > brandy.

            If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a nice clean pot
            still. It's a simple start and it has the fewest parts, simplest
            setup, and allows you to get started sooner without as many doohickeys
            to assemble/locate/engineer. Do multiple runs if you're after a more
            neutral spirit, but you can't beat a pot still for retaining the
            flavors of the fruit wash/wine that you're starting with.

            Trid
          • Vickypoint
            I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought in this design and I must say to him THANKS FOR THE EFFORT The crossflow condensor works
            Message 5 of 14 , May 3, 2006
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              I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought in this design and I must say to him "THANKS FOR THE EFFORT" The crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump recycling water from a 200 litre drum. The flow of water through the tubes in the condensor is very easlily controlled and the pump is not working hard at all.

              I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.

              Both of these stills function well. I have a lot to learn on how to operate them to their ultimate performance.. But if you are looking for a good easily constructed still these are the ones I would be looking at. They both pump out around 92 to 94% so what more do you want.

              Vickypoint.

              Lindsay Williams <lindsay.nz@...> wrote: Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have moved
              from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with water
              flows is just too depressing to contemplate!

              Cheers,
              Lindsay.

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
              <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
              >
              > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still with
              > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area of
              > the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be used
              > efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
              > plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
              > proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
              > double or tripple distillation in a potstill.
              >
              > - Riku
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
              > <richardt2005@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
              > > crossroads.
              > >
              > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
              > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
              > > brandy.
              > >
              > > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
              > copper
              > > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot scrubbers,
              > > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter. I'll
              > use
              > > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
              > > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double boiler,
              > the
              > > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar or
              > HFCS
              > > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
              > >
              > > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal. Any
              > > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
              > should
              > > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
              > >
              >







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              FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





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              Frank
              vickypoint2003@...

              "Failure is never so frightening as regret"
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            • greg tufts
              If you have the time and can access material, why not build your still with two heads , one a simple pot still with worm for brandy, rum etc and a VM/CM/LM
              Message 6 of 14 , May 3, 2006
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                If you have the time and can access material,
                why not build your still with two "heads", one a
                simple pot still with worm for brandy, rum etc
                and a VM/CM/LM your choice for clean spirits ?
                I know this solution is not an option for all, but
                it works for me
                cheers
                greg

                --- Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:


                ---------------------------------
                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                <richardt2005@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and
                find myself at a
                > crossroads.
                >
                > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good
                quality,
                > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely
                flavored fruit
                > brandy.

                If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a
                nice clean pot
                still. It's a simple start and it has the fewest
                parts, simplest
                setup, and allows you to get started sooner without as
                many doohickeys
                to assemble/locate/engineer. Do multiple runs if
                you're after a more
                neutral spirit, but you can't beat a pot still for
                retaining the
                flavors of the fruit wash/wine that you're starting
                with.

                Trid





                New Distillers group archives are at
                http://archive.nnytech.net/
                FAQ and other information available at
                http://homedistiller.org





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              • abbababbaccc
                But here s the catch, if you have CM system you can bypass the reflux condenser and have in practise a potstill. Add/remove packing to fine tune it to the
                Message 7 of 14 , May 3, 2006
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                  But here's the catch, if you have CM system you can bypass the reflux
                  condenser and have in practise a potstill. Add/remove packing to fine
                  tune it to the internal reflux ratio (all potstills have internal
                  reflux, some designs quite a lot actually) that suits your flavored
                  drink style. No need for two heads as you can use one still in
                  several modes.

                  - Riku

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, greg tufts <gregtufts@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > If you have the time and can access material,
                  > why not build your still with two "heads", one a
                  > simple pot still with worm for brandy, rum etc
                  > and a VM/CM/LM your choice for clean spirits ?
                  > I know this solution is not an option for all, but
                  > it works for me
                  > cheers
                  > greg
                  >
                  > --- Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                  > <richardt2005@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and
                  > find myself at a
                  > > crossroads.
                  > >
                  > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good
                  > quality,
                  > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely
                  > flavored fruit
                  > > brandy.
                  >
                  > If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a
                  > nice clean pot
                  > still. It's a simple start and it has the fewest
                  > parts, simplest
                  > setup, and allows you to get started sooner without as
                  > many doohickeys
                  > to assemble/locate/engineer. Do multiple runs if
                  > you're after a more
                  > neutral spirit, but you can't beat a pot still for
                  > retaining the
                  > flavors of the fruit wash/wine that you're starting
                  > with.
                  >
                  > Trid
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > New Distillers group archives are at
                  > http://archive.nnytech.net/
                  > FAQ and other information available at
                  > http://homedistiller.org
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SPONSORED LINKS
                  > Food
                  > and drink Home
                  > distilling Culture
                  >
                  > Culture club
                  > Organizational culture
                  > Distillers
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit your group "new_distillers" on the web.
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  > Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • richardt2005
                  ... in this design and I must say to him THANKS FOR THE EFFORT The crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump recycling water from a 200
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 3, 2006
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Vickypoint <vickypoint2003@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought
                    in this design and I must say to him "THANKS FOR THE EFFORT" The
                    crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump
                    recycling water from a 200 litre drum. The flow of water through the
                    tubes in the condensor is very easlily controlled and the pump is not
                    working hard at all.
                    >
                    > I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a
                    double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to
                    maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.


                    Any link to Harry's or Alex's design? (I'm sorry to have not read all
                    20,000 postings, there are whole rafts of resources that I haven't
                    found yet.)
                  • Harry
                    ... all ... Use the two sites running in frames on the homepage of this new_distillers groupsite. All will be revealed. Slainte! regards Harry
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 3, 2006
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                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                      <richardt2005@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Any link to Harry's or Alex's design? (I'm sorry to have not read
                      all
                      > 20,000 postings, there are whole rafts of resources that I haven't
                      > found yet.)
                      >


                      Use the two sites running in frames on the homepage of this
                      new_distillers groupsite. All will be revealed.


                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • Paul McMillan
                      As an aside not directly related to your point, but useful information nonetheless... I found that I was able to greatly improve the throughput of my
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 3, 2006
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                        As an aside not directly related to your point, but useful information
                        nonetheless... I found that I was able to greatly improve the
                        throughput of my struggling aquarium pump by putting the bucket from
                        which it was pumping on top of a garbage bin, raising it up by about 4
                        feet. Head height does matter..

                        Paul

                        On 5/3/06, Vickypoint <vickypoint2003@...> wrote:
                        > I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.
                      • Vickypoint
                        Have a look here for the items u are after the first one is Harrys still. Have a look in the First section Building an Eco friendly still.
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 4, 2006
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                          Have a look here for the items u are after the first one is Harrys still. Have a look in the First section Building an Eco friendly still.

                          http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Listings2.htm#Articles%20Listings


                          for Alexs still


                          http://geocities.com/bokakob/



                          richardt2005 <richardt2005@...> wrote: --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Vickypoint <vickypoint2003@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought
                          in this design and I must say to him "THANKS FOR THE EFFORT" The
                          crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump
                          recycling water from a 200 litre drum. The flow of water through the
                          tubes in the condensor is very easlily controlled and the pump is not
                          working hard at all.
                          >
                          > I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a
                          double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to
                          maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.


                          Any link to Harry's or Alex's design? (I'm sorry to have not read all
                          20,000 postings, there are whole rafts of resources that I haven't
                          found yet.)





                          New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                          FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





                          SPONSORED LINKS
                          Food and drink Home distilling Culture Culture club Organizational culture Distillers

                          ---------------------------------
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                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          ---------------------------------





                          Frank
                          vickypoint2003@...

                          "Failure is never so frightening as regret"

                          ---------------------------------
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