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Re: Short term goals, long term stills

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  • abbababbaccc
    If I were you I d try building a modern cooling management still with reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area of the column). It
    Message 1 of 14 , May 2 12:32 PM
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      If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still with
      reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area of
      the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be used
      efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
      plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
      proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
      double or tripple distillation in a potstill.

      - Riku

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
      <richardt2005@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
      > crossroads.
      >
      > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
      > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
      > brandy.
      >
      > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
      copper
      > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot scrubbers,
      > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter. I'll
      use
      > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
      > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double boiler,
      the
      > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar or
      HFCS
      > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
      >
      > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal. Any
      > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
      should
      > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
      >
    • richardt2005
      ... with ... of ... I can t quite picture it from your description. Something like a 4 foot column with the upper 1/3 packed, and that part with a couple of
      Message 2 of 14 , May 2 3:24 PM
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
        <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
        >
        > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still
        with
        > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area
        of
        > the column).

        I can't quite picture it from your description.

        Something like a 4 foot column with the upper 1/3 packed, and that
        part with a couple of cooling coils around the outside of the tower?
      • Lindsay Williams
        Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have moved from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with water flows is just too
        Message 3 of 14 , May 2 8:38 PM
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          Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have moved
          from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with water
          flows is just too depressing to contemplate!

          Cheers,
          Lindsay.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
          <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
          >
          > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still with
          > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area of
          > the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be used
          > efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
          > plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
          > proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
          > double or tripple distillation in a potstill.
          >
          > - Riku
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
          > <richardt2005@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
          > > crossroads.
          > >
          > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
          > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
          > > brandy.
          > >
          > > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
          > copper
          > > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot scrubbers,
          > > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter. I'll
          > use
          > > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
          > > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double boiler,
          > the
          > > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar or
          > HFCS
          > > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
          > >
          > > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal. Any
          > > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
          > should
          > > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
          > >
          >
        • abbababbaccc
          No, a regular 1 meter packed column and a reflux coil on top of that (+ a reflux spreader/collar). Then from above that reflux coil you have connection to a
          Message 4 of 14 , May 2 10:20 PM
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            No, a regular 1 meter packed column and a reflux coil on top of that (+
            a reflux spreader/collar). Then from above that reflux coil you have
            connection to a product condenser. Many of those old CM designs have
            through pipes at the packing area and that makes them both inefficient
            and difficult to disassemble.

            - Riku

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
            <richardt2005@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
            > <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
            > >
            > > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still
            > with
            > > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area
            > of
            > > the column).
            >
            > I can't quite picture it from your description.
            >
            > Something like a 4 foot column with the upper 1/3 packed, and that
            > part with a couple of cooling coils around the outside of the tower?
            >
          • abbababbaccc
            Using VM for flavored spirits is quite difficult since there s very little tails. The LM tends to have problems with valves not holding adjustments. If they
            Message 5 of 14 , May 2 10:29 PM
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              Using VM for flavored spirits is quite difficult since there's very
              little tails. The LM tends to have problems with valves not holding
              adjustments. If they hold adjustment the RR is constant throughout
              the run which is not what happens in a potstill / short brandy
              column. With CM the RR increases some towards the end giving better
              emulation of the "real thing". The issue here was to have a rig that
              can produce neutral spirits and be good for flavored spirits - thus
              CM. If you do flavored spirits with CM you should have a small
              constant amount of cooling for the reflux condenser - ie. no messing
              with water flows. Also, using constant cooling (ambient air cooling
              as an example) and power control gets rid of those water flow
              problems.

              For just neutral spirits ARC and VM are your best choices, depending
              on the level of automation you want.

              - Riku

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
              <lindsay.nz@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have
              moved
              > from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with
              water
              > flows is just too depressing to contemplate!
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Lindsay.
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
              > <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
              > >
              > > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still
              with
              > > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area
              of
              > > the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be
              used
              > > efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
              > > plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
              > > proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
              > > double or tripple distillation in a potstill.
              > >
              > > - Riku
              > >
              > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
              > > <richardt2005@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself
              at a
              > > > crossroads.
              > > >
              > > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
              > > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored
              fruit
              > > > brandy.
              > > >
              > > > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
              > > copper
              > > > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot
              scrubbers,
              > > > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter.
              I'll
              > > use
              > > > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
              > > > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double
              boiler,
              > > the
              > > > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar
              or
              > > HFCS
              > > > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
              > > >
              > > > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal.
              Any
              > > > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
              > > should
              > > > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Trid
              ... If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a nice clean pot still. It s a simple start and it has the fewest parts, simplest setup, and allows
              Message 6 of 14 , May 2 11:13 PM
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                <richardt2005@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
                > crossroads.
                >
                > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
                > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
                > brandy.

                If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a nice clean pot
                still. It's a simple start and it has the fewest parts, simplest
                setup, and allows you to get started sooner without as many doohickeys
                to assemble/locate/engineer. Do multiple runs if you're after a more
                neutral spirit, but you can't beat a pot still for retaining the
                flavors of the fruit wash/wine that you're starting with.

                Trid
              • Vickypoint
                I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought in this design and I must say to him THANKS FOR THE EFFORT The crossflow condensor works
                Message 7 of 14 , May 3 3:00 AM
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                  I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought in this design and I must say to him "THANKS FOR THE EFFORT" The crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump recycling water from a 200 litre drum. The flow of water through the tubes in the condensor is very easlily controlled and the pump is not working hard at all.

                  I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.

                  Both of these stills function well. I have a lot to learn on how to operate them to their ultimate performance.. But if you are looking for a good easily constructed still these are the ones I would be looking at. They both pump out around 92 to 94% so what more do you want.

                  Vickypoint.

                  Lindsay Williams <lindsay.nz@...> wrote: Hi, Riku. Why recommend a CM system rather than LM or VM? I have moved
                  from CM to VM and know I would never go back to CM. Messing with water
                  flows is just too depressing to contemplate!

                  Cheers,
                  Lindsay.

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                  <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > If I were you I'd try building a modern cooling management still with
                  > reflux condenser on top only (no through tubes in the packed area of
                  > the column). It works very well for neutral spirits and can be used
                  > efficiently to emulate those small brandy towers with couple of
                  > plates. You can also make good whiskey with one of those and with
                  > proper settings it will give in one run very similar results as a
                  > double or tripple distillation in a potstill.
                  >
                  > - Riku
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                  > <richardt2005@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and find myself at a
                  > > crossroads.
                  > >
                  > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good quality,
                  > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely flavored fruit
                  > > brandy.
                  > >
                  > > It looks like the most direct way to achieve my first goal is a
                  > copper
                  > > pipe internal reflux still, about 4'x2", packed with pot scrubbers,
                  > > with a water jacketed condenser, and a good charcoal filter. I'll
                  > use
                  > > a small electric pump to cycle swimming pool water through the
                  > > condenser. For the pot, I'm planning on gas fired double boiler,
                  > the
                  > > main tank made from a 1/2 size stainless beer keg, and a sugar or
                  > HFCS
                  > > wash with a commercial turbo yeast.
                  > >
                  > > But that looks like it's about useless for my ultimate goal. Any
                  > > suggestions? Would a valved reflux be a better compromise? Or
                  > should
                  > > I just go to a large pot still and assume multiple runs?
                  > >
                  >







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                  Frank
                  vickypoint2003@...

                  "Failure is never so frightening as regret"
                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

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                • greg tufts
                  If you have the time and can access material, why not build your still with two heads , one a simple pot still with worm for brandy, rum etc and a VM/CM/LM
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 3 3:19 AM
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                    If you have the time and can access material,
                    why not build your still with two "heads", one a
                    simple pot still with worm for brandy, rum etc
                    and a VM/CM/LM your choice for clean spirits ?
                    I know this solution is not an option for all, but
                    it works for me
                    cheers
                    greg

                    --- Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:


                    ---------------------------------
                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                    <richardt2005@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and
                    find myself at a
                    > crossroads.
                    >
                    > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good
                    quality,
                    > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely
                    flavored fruit
                    > brandy.

                    If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a
                    nice clean pot
                    still. It's a simple start and it has the fewest
                    parts, simplest
                    setup, and allows you to get started sooner without as
                    many doohickeys
                    to assemble/locate/engineer. Do multiple runs if
                    you're after a more
                    neutral spirit, but you can't beat a pot still for
                    retaining the
                    flavors of the fruit wash/wine that you're starting
                    with.

                    Trid





                    New Distillers group archives are at
                    http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    FAQ and other information available at
                    http://homedistiller.org





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                  • abbababbaccc
                    But here s the catch, if you have CM system you can bypass the reflux condenser and have in practise a potstill. Add/remove packing to fine tune it to the
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 3 5:16 AM
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                      But here's the catch, if you have CM system you can bypass the reflux
                      condenser and have in practise a potstill. Add/remove packing to fine
                      tune it to the internal reflux ratio (all potstills have internal
                      reflux, some designs quite a lot actually) that suits your flavored
                      drink style. No need for two heads as you can use one still in
                      several modes.

                      - Riku

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, greg tufts <gregtufts@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > If you have the time and can access material,
                      > why not build your still with two "heads", one a
                      > simple pot still with worm for brandy, rum etc
                      > and a VM/CM/LM your choice for clean spirits ?
                      > I know this solution is not an option for all, but
                      > it works for me
                      > cheers
                      > greg
                      >
                      > --- Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                      > <richardt2005@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I'm starting to buy parts for my first still, and
                      > find myself at a
                      > > crossroads.
                      > >
                      > > My immediate goal is the reliable production of good
                      > quality,
                      > > drinkable ethanol. My ultimate goal is intensely
                      > flavored fruit
                      > > brandy.
                      >
                      > If your goal is brandy, my advice would be to set up a
                      > nice clean pot
                      > still. It's a simple start and it has the fewest
                      > parts, simplest
                      > setup, and allows you to get started sooner without as
                      > many doohickeys
                      > to assemble/locate/engineer. Do multiple runs if
                      > you're after a more
                      > neutral spirit, but you can't beat a pot still for
                      > retaining the
                      > flavors of the fruit wash/wine that you're starting
                      > with.
                      >
                      > Trid
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > New Distillers group archives are at
                      > http://archive.nnytech.net/
                      > FAQ and other information available at
                      > http://homedistiller.org
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                      > Food
                      > and drink Home
                      > distilling Culture
                      >
                      > Culture club
                      > Organizational culture
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                      >
                      >
                      > Visit your group "new_distillers" on the web.
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      >
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                      >
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                    • richardt2005
                      ... in this design and I must say to him THANKS FOR THE EFFORT The crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump recycling water from a 200
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 3 7:08 AM
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                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Vickypoint <vickypoint2003@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought
                        in this design and I must say to him "THANKS FOR THE EFFORT" The
                        crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump
                        recycling water from a 200 litre drum. The flow of water through the
                        tubes in the condensor is very easlily controlled and the pump is not
                        working hard at all.
                        >
                        > I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a
                        double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to
                        maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.


                        Any link to Harry's or Alex's design? (I'm sorry to have not read all
                        20,000 postings, there are whole rafts of resources that I haven't
                        found yet.)
                      • Harry
                        ... all ... Use the two sites running in frames on the homepage of this new_distillers groupsite. All will be revealed. Slainte! regards Harry
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 3 5:56 PM
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                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "richardt2005"
                          <richardt2005@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Any link to Harry's or Alex's design? (I'm sorry to have not read
                          all
                          > 20,000 postings, there are whole rafts of resources that I haven't
                          > found yet.)
                          >


                          Use the two sites running in frames on the homepage of this
                          new_distillers groupsite. All will be revealed.


                          Slainte!
                          regards Harry
                        • Paul McMillan
                          As an aside not directly related to your point, but useful information nonetheless... I found that I was able to greatly improve the throughput of my
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 3 9:22 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            As an aside not directly related to your point, but useful information
                            nonetheless... I found that I was able to greatly improve the
                            throughput of my struggling aquarium pump by putting the bucket from
                            which it was pumping on top of a garbage bin, raising it up by about 4
                            feet. Head height does matter..

                            Paul

                            On 5/3/06, Vickypoint <vickypoint2003@...> wrote:
                            > I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.
                          • Vickypoint
                            Have a look here for the items u are after the first one is Harrys still. Have a look in the First section Building an Eco friendly still.
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 4 1:40 AM
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                              Have a look here for the items u are after the first one is Harrys still. Have a look in the First section Building an Eco friendly still.

                              http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Listings2.htm#Articles%20Listings


                              for Alexs still


                              http://geocities.com/bokakob/



                              richardt2005 <richardt2005@...> wrote: --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Vickypoint <vickypoint2003@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I had a still built as per Harrys design.He has put a lot of thought
                              in this design and I must say to him "THANKS FOR THE EFFORT" The
                              crossflow condensor works very well. I have a small pond pump
                              recycling water from a 200 litre drum. The flow of water through the
                              tubes in the condensor is very easlily controlled and the pump is not
                              working hard at all.
                              >
                              > I have also had made a mini still as per Alex,s design. I made up a
                              double helix cooling coil and have found the pump struggles a bit to
                              maintain a good flow of cooling water through 1/4 inch cooper tubing.


                              Any link to Harry's or Alex's design? (I'm sorry to have not read all
                              20,000 postings, there are whole rafts of resources that I haven't
                              found yet.)





                              New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                              FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





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                              ---------------------------------





                              Frank
                              vickypoint2003@...

                              "Failure is never so frightening as regret"

                              ---------------------------------
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