Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Spiral Type Condensing Head (Alex --- Help!)

Expand Messages
  • aborzachtd
    Alex, I find your air cooled Spiral Head design most beautiful and am interested in making a Mini-Still sized version with an air cooled Spiral Head. A couple
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 2, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Alex,

      I find your air cooled Spiral Head design most beautiful and am
      interested in making a Mini-Still sized version with an air cooled
      Spiral Head. A couple of questions though.

      1. Could you spec the dimensions of the tubing, number of windings,
      and coil dimensions suitable for a 1 1/2" or 2" dia reflux column
      about 3-4' tall?

      2. Is is fair to say that even with the 1/4" needle valve fully open
      there will still be some reflex action going on because some of the
      condensate will run past the valve?

      3. Any problems with the Spiral Head design that should make me re-
      think using that design? I can see the coil is hanging in the air
      above the mash pot (and its heating source) and wonder how damaging
      that will be.

      Thanks for your help

      ab
    • _{*L*}_
      Hello, ab (sorry I could not name you). You made my heart melt and I will go out of my ways to answer your questions. 1. The tubing diameter should be not less
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello, ab (sorry I could not name you).
        You made my heart melt and I will go out of my ways to answer your questions.
        1. The tubing diameter should be not less than 1/2"
        2. The cooling winding diameter should be not less than 8". A common cooking pot will suit nicely to roll the tubing.
        3. The number of windings should be not less than 8. This should give you the total length of 1/2" copper tubing 16.75 feet. I guess 20 foot standard roll will fit nicely for this task. Vertical spacing of this tubing should be approximately 1/4" clear.
        4. It is fair to say that some reflux will happen indeed with this setup.
        5. The only problem I see is that nobody yet has made this design yet.
        When I was publishing this sketch I was (and still) thinking about a solar driven distillation unit which is completely free of the energy sources. I was thinking something toward the solar furnace and air-cooled still.
        If you have tenacity to make and test it would you please post the results and the pictures please?
        With warm regards, Alex ... aka BOKAKOB

        aborzachtd <aborza@...> wrote:
        Alex,
        I find your air cooled Spiral Head design most beautiful and am interested in making a Mini-Still sized version with an air cooled Spiral Head. A couple of questions though.
        1. Could you spec the dimensions of the tubing, number of windings, and coil dimensions suitable for a 1 1/2" or 2" dia refux column about 3-4' tall?
        2. Is is fair to say that even with the 1/4" needle valve fully open there will still be some reflex action going on because some of the condensate will run past the valve?
        3. Any problems with the Spiral Head design that should make me re-think using that design? I can see the coil is hanging in the air above the mash pot (and its heating source) and wonder how damaging
        that will be. Thanks for your help
        ab

        _{*L*}_
        Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
        http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob



        ---------------------------------
        Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • aborzachtd
        Alex, Thanks for the reply. BYW, I see great beauty in simplicity and in form following function. In this design, I see both. And with no need for additional
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Alex,

          Thanks for the reply.

          BYW, I see great beauty in simplicity and in form following function.
          In this design, I see both. And with no need for additional hoses and
          water usage I see aditional beauty. It all looks great to me and if
          efficiency is high, I cannot see how this design can be topped.

          I am in the process of getting together materials to build the Spiral
          Type system. I will see how it goes.

          Since you are willing to help, I have more questions. I hope they are
          not too burdensome.

          1. You say in your drawing that the reflex column should be insulated
          but not "above the cap." I am not sure what that means. Do you mean
          the column up to the top cap where the reflex comes back into the
          column should be insulated but the spiral condenser and its
          connection to the column should not be insulated?

          2. Why should the column be insulated at all? What is the practical
          reason for the insulation?

          3. You say that test runs should be made un-insulated and after the
          test runs the column should be insulated. But it seems to me that
          test runs should be done under the same conditions as when used.
          Otherwise, it seems to me, if you calibrate and set reflux while
          testing, and then insulate, the reflux ratio will change. I guess I
          am confused.

          4. Will there be any problem if I come into the cap from the top? I
          am thinking of using a 90 deg. fitting off the condenser and coming
          in through the top of the cap. This will allow me to center the
          reflux on to the packing more accurately. Are there any potential
          problems with that plan?

          5. I am thinking of using a larger tube for the takeoff side of the
          system. That and the associated larger valve should allow more flow
          in the full open condition and therefore allow a greater ability to
          accurately set reflux (less distillate will go past the 1/4" output
          pipe). Any problems with this idea?

          6. My greatest concern at this time is the weight of the spiral
          condenser. I have not built any reflex design previously (only pot
          stills) so I have no idea how much the other condenser designs weigh.
          But it seems to me that this condenser design weighs a great deal
          more than your other designs and will therefore be more liable to tip
          over. Am I right about that? Or does the weight of water hoses,
          water, collection cup and related parts result in about the same
          weight?

          7. Due to availability, I will be using 1 1/2" tubing for the column.
          What would you suggest is the ideal height for a 1 1/2" column?

          8. What is the ideal temperature on the installed thermometer for
          reflex mode? How about for pot-still (non-reflex) mode?

          I hope these questions are not too numerous or burdensome and I do
          appreciate any help you will give. You have already helped me a great
          deal, not only by your prior answers, but by making wonderful designs
          available to all.

          So again, I say thank you, for myself and for others who have
          benefited from your designs.

          ab

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, _{*L*}_ <bokakob@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello, ab (sorry I could not name you).
          > You made my heart melt and I will go out of my ways to answer
          your questions.
          > 1. The tubing diameter should be not less than 1/2"
          > 2. The cooling winding diameter should be not less than 8". A
          common cooking pot will suit nicely to roll the tubing.
          > 3. The number of windings should be not less than 8. This should
          give you the total length of 1/2" copper tubing 16.75 feet. I guess
          20 foot standard roll will fit nicely for this task. Vertical spacing
          of this tubing should be approximately 1/4" clear.
          > 4. It is fair to say that some reflux will happen indeed with
          this setup.
          > 5. The only problem I see is that nobody yet has made this design
          yet.
          > When I was publishing this sketch I was (and still) thinking
          about a solar driven distillation unit which is completely free of
          the energy sources. I was thinking something toward the solar furnace
          and air-cooled still.
          > If you have tenacity to make and test it would you please post
          the results and the pictures please?
          > With warm regards, Alex ... aka BOKAKOB
          >
          > aborzachtd <aborza@...> wrote:
          > Alex,
          > I find your air cooled Spiral Head design most beautiful and am
          interested in making a Mini-Still sized version with an air cooled
          Spiral Head. A couple of questions though.
          > 1. Could you spec the dimensions of the tubing, number of windings,
          and coil dimensions suitable for a 1 1/2" or 2" dia refux column
          about 3-4' tall?
          > 2. Is is fair to say that even with the 1/4" needle valve fully
          open there will still be some reflex action going on because some of
          the condensate will run past the valve?
          > 3. Any problems with the Spiral Head design that should make me re-
          think using that design? I can see the coil is hanging in the air
          above the mash pot (and its heating source) and wonder how damaging
          > that will be. Thanks for your help
          > ab
          >
          > _{*L*}_
          > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
          > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
          Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • _{*L*}_
          Here are some answers to your questions: You interpret correct. Insulation is beneficial only where you have packing material. The practical reason for
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 3, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Here are some answers to your questions:

            You interpret correct. Insulation is beneficial only where you have packing material.
            The practical reason for insulation is a)economics b)better reflux process
            Test run with water is not important, it is mostly to clean and to spot leaks.
            As long as the principle of the schematic says the same it is immaterial where the reflux/vapor spigot will be located.
            I think 0.25” needle valve is sufficient for the job. You are mixing the necessary reflux in the main column with the insignificant cooling reflux in the spiral part.
            Yes, you are right. The system will be less stable. Also, turns will be very flexible. You may want using simple copper wire rods to solder turns into something more rigid.
            For 1.5” tubing I would target the column height between 20~24 inches.
            The temperature for reflux operation must be 78*C period. For pot stilling it depends on stage of the take off.
            One concern – I am not sure about cooling capacity of this still. It may be necessary to provide a sort of fan or other means of cooling. A smooth pipe is not the ideal for cooling. Perhaps some sorts of fins would be required.
            Again – this is untested “concept” design which should work in principle. Unfortunately I can not estimate the cooling capacity of this still. Here you are on your own.


            aborzachtd <aborza@...> wrote: Alex,

            Thanks for the reply.

            BYW, I see great beauty in simplicity and in form following function.
            In this design, I see both. And with no need for additional hoses and
            water usage I see aditional beauty. It all looks great to me and if
            efficiency is high, I cannot see how this design can be topped.

            I am in the process of getting together materials to build the Spiral
            Type system. I will see how it goes.

            Since you are willing to help, I have more questions. I hope they are
            not too burdensome.

            1. You say in your drawing that the reflex column should be insulated
            but not "above the cap." I am not sure what that means. Do you mean
            the column up to the top cap where the reflex comes back into the
            column should be insulated but the spiral condenser and its
            connection to the column should not be insulated?

            2. Why should the column be insulated at all? What is the practical
            reason for the insulation?

            3. You say that test runs should be made un-insulated and after the
            test runs the column should be insulated. But it seems to me that
            test runs should be done under the same conditions as when used.
            Otherwise, it seems to me, if you calibrate and set reflux while
            testing, and then insulate, the reflux ratio will change. I guess I
            am confused.

            4. Will there be any problem if I come into the cap from the top? I
            am thinking of using a 90 deg. fitting off the condenser and coming
            in through the top of the cap. This will allow me to center the
            reflux on to the packing more accurately. Are there any potential
            problems with that plan?

            5. I am thinking of using a larger tube for the takeoff side of the
            system. That and the associated larger valve should allow more flow
            in the full open condition and therefore allow a greater ability to
            accurately set reflux (less distillate will go past the 1/4" output
            pipe). Any problems with this idea?

            6. My greatest concern at this time is the weight of the spiral
            condenser. I have not built any reflex design previously (only pot
            stills) so I have no idea how much the other condenser designs weigh.
            But it seems to me that this condenser design weighs a great deal
            more than your other designs and will therefore be more liable to tip
            over. Am I right about that? Or does the weight of water hoses,
            water, collection cup and related parts result in about the same
            weight?

            7. Due to availability, I will be using 1 1/2" tubing for the column.
            What would you suggest is the ideal height for a 1 1/2" column?

            8. What is the ideal temperature on the installed thermometer for
            reflex mode? How about for pot-still (non-reflex) mode?

            I hope these questions are not too numerous or burdensome and I do
            appreciate any help you will give. You have already helped me a great
            deal, not only by your prior answers, but by making wonderful designs
            available to all.

            So again, I say thank you, for myself and for others who have
            benefited from your designs.

            ab

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, _{*L*}_ <bokakob@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello, ab (sorry I could not name you).
            > You made my heart melt and I will go out of my ways to answer
            your questions.
            > 1. The tubing diameter should be not less than 1/2"
            > 2. The cooling winding diameter should be not less than 8". A
            common cooking pot will suit nicely to roll the tubing.
            > 3. The number of windings should be not less than 8. This should
            give you the total length of 1/2" copper tubing 16.75 feet. I guess
            20 foot standard roll will fit nicely for this task. Vertical spacing
            of this tubing should be approximately 1/4" clear.
            > 4. It is fair to say that some reflux will happen indeed with
            this setup.
            > 5. The only problem I see is that nobody yet has made this design
            yet.
            > When I was publishing this sketch I was (and still) thinking
            about a solar driven distillation unit which is completely free of
            the energy sources. I was thinking something toward the solar furnace
            and air-cooled still.
            > If you have tenacity to make and test it would you please post
            the results and the pictures please?
            > With warm regards, Alex ... aka BOKAKOB
            >
            > aborzachtd <aborza@...> wrote:
            > Alex,
            > I find your air cooled Spiral Head design most beautiful and am
            interested in making a Mini-Still sized version with an air cooled
            Spiral Head. A couple of questions though.
            > 1. Could you spec the dimensions of the tubing, number of windings,
            and coil dimensions suitable for a 1 1/2" or 2" dia refux column
            about 3-4' tall?
            > 2. Is is fair to say that even with the 1/4" needle valve fully
            open there will still be some reflex action going on because some of
            the condensate will run past the valve?
            > 3. Any problems with the Spiral Head design that should make me re-
            think using that design? I can see the coil is hanging in the air
            above the mash pot (and its heating source) and wonder how damaging
            > that will be. Thanks for your help
            > ab
            >
            > _{*L*}_
            > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
            > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
            Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >






            New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
            FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





            ---------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


            Visit your group "new_distillers" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            ---------------------------------





            _{*L*}_
            Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
            http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob



            ---------------------------------
            Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.