Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

info on step fermentation??

Expand Messages
  • kirtgk
    ive been using many different turbo yeasts. ive noticed that different yeasts impart different tastes on the final 90%abv product. many of the yeasts claim
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      ive been using many different turbo yeasts. ive noticed that different
      yeasts impart different tastes on the final 90%abv product. many of
      the yeasts claim this 20% abv wash. ive gotton it only on a few and i
      ferment the same way every time and temp is also the same. ive
      recently heard of step fermenting and would like info and or
      instructions on the process. any help would be appreciated.




      thanks kirtgk
    • Harry
      ... different ... of ... and i ... Step fermentation is a process where instead of putting all the sugar in at once, you feed your ferment with several
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@...> wrote:
        >
        > ive been using many different turbo yeasts. ive noticed that
        different
        > yeasts impart different tastes on the final 90%abv product. many
        of
        > the yeasts claim this 20% abv wash. ive gotton it only on a few
        and i
        > ferment the same way every time and temp is also the same. ive
        > recently heard of step fermenting and would like info and or
        > instructions on the process. any help would be appreciated.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > thanks kirtgk
        >



        Step fermentation is a process where instead of putting all the
        sugar in at once, you feed your ferment with several portions of the
        whole over several days. The object is to heep the osmotic pressure
        below that which will shock & kill your yeast. If the osmotic
        pressure is controlled, it is then possible to coax some of the more
        robust cells into producing higher percentages of ethanol. There's
        a finite limit to this as the ethanol itself will poison yeast.
        Some strains, notably Bayanus can tolerate high ethanol, up to 20%
        and recently I saw a claim of 25%, but that was a genetically
        engineered industrial yeast, not meant for human consumption.

        The best real-world example I can give is my ancestor's rum recipe.
        Bear in mind they were using very inferior yeasts by today's
        standards and step-fermenting was almost a necessity back then if
        you wanted to get anything out of a ferment.
        Read msg 18931 and thread ---Here 'tis - GGGDad's Rum 1890's style.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/18931
        There is more info on the conversions further along in the thread.
        The original handwritten recipe is posted on the library site...
        http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • kirtgk
        ... the ... pressure ... more ... There s ... recipe. ... thanks harry the info was better than i expected. ive been reading these posts for a while now and
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry"
          <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@> wrote:
          > >
          > > ive been using many different turbo yeasts. ive noticed that
          > different
          > > yeasts impart different tastes on the final 90%abv product. many
          > of
          > > the yeasts claim this 20% abv wash. ive gotton it only on a few
          > and i
          > > ferment the same way every time and temp is also the same. ive
          > > recently heard of step fermenting and would like info and or
          > > instructions on the process. any help would be appreciated.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > thanks kirtgk
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Step fermentation is a process where instead of putting all the
          > sugar in at once, you feed your ferment with several portions of
          the
          > whole over several days. The object is to heep the osmotic
          pressure
          > below that which will shock & kill your yeast. If the osmotic
          > pressure is controlled, it is then possible to coax some of the
          more
          > robust cells into producing higher percentages of ethanol.
          There's
          > a finite limit to this as the ethanol itself will poison yeast.
          > Some strains, notably Bayanus can tolerate high ethanol, up to 20%
          > and recently I saw a claim of 25%, but that was a genetically
          > engineered industrial yeast, not meant for human consumption.
          >
          > The best real-world example I can give is my ancestor's rum
          recipe.
          > Bear in mind they were using very inferior yeasts by today's
          > standards and step-fermenting was almost a necessity back then if
          > you wanted to get anything out of a ferment.
          > Read msg 18931 and thread ---Here 'tis - GGGDad's Rum 1890's style.
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/18931
          > There is more info on the conversions further along in the thread.
          > The original handwritten recipe is posted on the library site...
          > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          thanks harry the info was better than i expected. ive been reading
          these posts for a while now and gotten great results from simply
          paying attention. the leads on the threads and recipes is also
          appreciated. one question though. can i make the rum using a
          coumpound reflux still or do you need to use a pot still to bring
          over more of the flavours? ill post pics of it if you need to or
          want to see it.



          happy stillin
          kirtgk
        • Harry
          ... Potstills are usually a better option for flavoured spirits, particularly rums. However it is possible to use a reflux still and get good results if a few
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@...> wrote:
            > >
            > thanks harry the info was better than i expected. ive been reading
            > these posts for a while now and gotten great results from simply
            > paying attention. the leads on the threads and recipes is also
            > appreciated. one question though. can i make the rum using a
            > coumpound reflux still or do you need to use a pot still to bring
            > over more of the flavours? ill post pics of it if you need to or
            > want to see it.
            >
            >
            >
            > happy stillin
            > kirtgk
            >


            Potstills are usually a better option for flavoured spirits,
            particularly rums. However it is possible to use a reflux still and
            get good results if a few things are altered for the run(s).

            1) Detune the still i.e. remove almost all the mesh packing. You
            may leave a small amount in (like 10cm) at the base of the column to
            help with sulphite removal. The object of this step is to convert
            the column into something more akin to a vertical lyne arm, thus the
            still will react more like a potstill. The takeoff percentage will
            be somewhere in the 80's rather than the normal 90+%.

            2) NEVER fill your boiler more than 2/3 when doing molasses-based
            rum. Foaming is a real problem and you need good headroom to
            accomodate it. You can reduce foaming by adding a couple ta/sp of
            cooking oil or butter to the charge. This tends to break up the
            foam and helps prevent it boiling up into the column.

            3) NEVER hard-boil the charge. Pay particular attention to the
            heat input as you approach the boil (this is where a thermometer in
            the boiler head is valuable). Reduce heat input to the minimum
            necessary to maintain a gentle simmer. Apart from excessive
            foaming, hard boiling will produce a lot of nasty acrid flavours
            that are very difficult if not impossible to remove/convert during
            aging.

            Read the various files in the library (Murtagh, Arroyo etc.)
            regarding cuts for rum.


            HTH
            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • kirtgk
            ... reading ... bring ... and ... to ... the ... will ... in ... great. thanks again. ill be trying the rum in the near future and will let you know how it
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > thanks harry the info was better than i expected. ive been
              reading
              > > these posts for a while now and gotten great results from simply
              > > paying attention. the leads on the threads and recipes is also
              > > appreciated. one question though. can i make the rum using a
              > > coumpound reflux still or do you need to use a pot still to
              bring
              > > over more of the flavours? ill post pics of it if you need to or
              > > want to see it.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > happy stillin
              > > kirtgk
              > >
              >
              >
              > Potstills are usually a better option for flavoured spirits,
              > particularly rums. However it is possible to use a reflux still
              and
              > get good results if a few things are altered for the run(s).
              >
              > 1) Detune the still i.e. remove almost all the mesh packing. You
              > may leave a small amount in (like 10cm) at the base of the column
              to
              > help with sulphite removal. The object of this step is to convert
              > the column into something more akin to a vertical lyne arm, thus
              the
              > still will react more like a potstill. The takeoff percentage
              will
              > be somewhere in the 80's rather than the normal 90+%.
              >
              > 2) NEVER fill your boiler more than 2/3 when doing molasses-based
              > rum. Foaming is a real problem and you need good headroom to
              > accomodate it. You can reduce foaming by adding a couple ta/sp of
              > cooking oil or butter to the charge. This tends to break up the
              > foam and helps prevent it boiling up into the column.
              >
              > 3) NEVER hard-boil the charge. Pay particular attention to the
              > heat input as you approach the boil (this is where a thermometer
              in
              > the boiler head is valuable). Reduce heat input to the minimum
              > necessary to maintain a gentle simmer. Apart from excessive
              > foaming, hard boiling will produce a lot of nasty acrid flavours
              > that are very difficult if not impossible to remove/convert during
              > aging.
              >
              > Read the various files in the library (Murtagh, Arroyo etc.)
              > regarding cuts for rum.
              >
              >
              > HTH
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry
              >

              great. thanks again. ill be trying the rum in the near future and
              will let you know how it turned out. made a small continous still
              and didnt like it. abv% to low on first run. time saved by not
              having to recharge the boiler and then reheat everything wasnt worth
              the loss of quality... im a quality man not a quanity man!! ive
              posted some pics of my first still i built and some of the
              modifications i made to get 90+ abv out of it. have a look if you
              please, just keep in mind it is the first one i built.
            • Murphy-Marsh, Leigh
              You ll probably find the continuous still to be good for a fast high abv stripping run and then you can put the high quality gear in your still in one batch
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 3, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                You'll probably find the continuous still to be good for a fast high abv
                stripping run and then you can put the high quality 'gear' in your still
                in one batch and run nice and slow getting maximum ABV. Time saved I'm
                not sure though. I use a detuned reflux still to strip a big batch flat
                out then run the 80ish percent stuff through again nice and slow.
                Nice still by the way. Where does the hole in the roof go?? I take it
                that's a basement.
                Leigh.

                Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 02:43:14 -0000
                From: "kirtgk" <kirtgk@...>
                Subject: Re: info on step fermentation??

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > thanks harry the info was better than i expected. ive been
                reading
                > > these posts for a while now and gotten great results from simply
                > > paying attention. the leads on the threads and recipes is also
                > > appreciated. one question though. can i make the rum using a
                > > coumpound reflux still or do you need to use a pot still to
                bring
                > > over more of the flavours? ill post pics of it if you need to or
                > > want to see it.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > happy stillin
                > > kirtgk
                > >
                >
                >
                > Potstills are usually a better option for flavoured spirits,
                > particularly rums. However it is possible to use a reflux still
                and
                > get good results if a few things are altered for the run(s).
                >
                > 1) Detune the still i.e. remove almost all the mesh packing. You
                > may leave a small amount in (like 10cm) at the base of the column
                to
                > help with sulphite removal. The object of this step is to convert
                > the column into something more akin to a vertical lyne arm, thus
                the
                > still will react more like a potstill. The takeoff percentage
                will
                > be somewhere in the 80's rather than the normal 90+%.
                >
                > 2) NEVER fill your boiler more than 2/3 when doing molasses-based
                > rum. Foaming is a real problem and you need good headroom to
                > accomodate it. You can reduce foaming by adding a couple ta/sp of
                > cooking oil or butter to the charge. This tends to break up the
                > foam and helps prevent it boiling up into the column.
                >
                > 3) NEVER hard-boil the charge. Pay particular attention to the
                > heat input as you approach the boil (this is where a thermometer
                in
                > the boiler head is valuable). Reduce heat input to the minimum
                > necessary to maintain a gentle simmer. Apart from excessive
                > foaming, hard boiling will produce a lot of nasty acrid flavours
                > that are very difficult if not impossible to remove/convert during
                > aging.
                >
                > Read the various files in the library (Murtagh, Arroyo etc.)
                > regarding cuts for rum.
                >
                >
                > HTH
                > Slainte!
                > regards Harry
                >

                great. thanks again. ill be trying the rum in the near future and
                will let you know how it turned out. made a small continous still
                and didnt like it. abv% to low on first run. time saved by not
                having to recharge the boiler and then reheat everything wasnt worth
                the loss of quality... im a quality man not a quanity man!! ive
                posted some pics of my first still i built and some of the
                modifications i made to get 90+ abv out of it. have a look if you
                please, just keep in mind it is the first one i built.


                This message and any attached files may contain information that is confidential and/or subject of legal privilege intended only for use by the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any dissemination, copying or use of this message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is the disclosure of the information therein. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the message.
              • kirtgk
                your right. my continous still got a fairly reliable abv. in the lower 80 s. i plan to use it primarly for stripping. the pics are in my cellar, and the hole
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 3, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  your right. my continous still got a fairly reliable abv. in the
                  lower 80's. i plan to use it primarly for stripping. the pics are in
                  my cellar, and the hole in the roof goes to the outside. its
                  detached from the house and in the backyard a little ways from the
                  house and garage so if it were to have any problems id only loose
                  the contents. the whole structure is made of cinder block and a
                  concrete slab for a roof, so if it did burn, i think the cellar
                  would be reusable but i would have a good reason to built a larger
                  still. im not sure if id change its design though. its usual running
                  abv. when it equalizes is 90%-92% for the body of the run. i
                  basicaly fill it, heat it to equalibrium and then i can walk away. i
                  check on the temps every 45 minuites or so and when the first temp
                  rise is seen i stick around and in about 20 minuites the second temp
                  rise comes. at that point i push the temp to 180 f. and quickly
                  collect the trails.


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Murphy-Marsh, Leigh"
                  <Leigh.Murphy-Marsh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > You'll probably find the continuous still to be good for a fast
                  high abv
                  > stripping run and then you can put the high quality 'gear' in your
                  still
                  > in one batch and run nice and slow getting maximum ABV. Time saved
                  I'm
                  > not sure though. I use a detuned reflux still to strip a big batch
                  flat
                  > out then run the 80ish percent stuff through again nice and slow.
                  > Nice still by the way. Where does the hole in the roof go?? I take
                  it
                  > that's a basement.
                  > Leigh.
                  >
                  > Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 02:43:14 -0000
                  > From: "kirtgk" <kirtgk@...>
                  > Subject: Re: info on step fermentation??
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "kirtgk" <kirtgk@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > thanks harry the info was better than i expected. ive been
                  > reading
                  > > > these posts for a while now and gotten great results from
                  simply
                  > > > paying attention. the leads on the threads and recipes is also
                  > > > appreciated. one question though. can i make the rum using a
                  > > > coumpound reflux still or do you need to use a pot still to
                  > bring
                  > > > over more of the flavours? ill post pics of it if you need to
                  or
                  > > > want to see it.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > happy stillin
                  > > > kirtgk
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Potstills are usually a better option for flavoured spirits,
                  > > particularly rums. However it is possible to use a reflux still
                  > and
                  > > get good results if a few things are altered for the run(s).
                  > >
                  > > 1) Detune the still i.e. remove almost all the mesh packing.
                  You
                  > > may leave a small amount in (like 10cm) at the base of the column
                  > to
                  > > help with sulphite removal. The object of this step is to
                  convert
                  > > the column into something more akin to a vertical lyne arm, thus
                  > the
                  > > still will react more like a potstill. The takeoff percentage
                  > will
                  > > be somewhere in the 80's rather than the normal 90+%.
                  > >
                  > > 2) NEVER fill your boiler more than 2/3 when doing molasses-
                  based
                  > > rum. Foaming is a real problem and you need good headroom to
                  > > accomodate it. You can reduce foaming by adding a couple ta/sp
                  of
                  > > cooking oil or butter to the charge. This tends to break up the
                  > > foam and helps prevent it boiling up into the column.
                  > >
                  > > 3) NEVER hard-boil the charge. Pay particular attention to the
                  > > heat input as you approach the boil (this is where a thermometer
                  > in
                  > > the boiler head is valuable). Reduce heat input to the minimum
                  > > necessary to maintain a gentle simmer. Apart from excessive
                  > > foaming, hard boiling will produce a lot of nasty acrid flavours
                  > > that are very difficult if not impossible to remove/convert
                  during
                  > > aging.
                  > >
                  > > Read the various files in the library (Murtagh, Arroyo etc.)
                  > > regarding cuts for rum.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > HTH
                  > > Slainte!
                  > > regards Harry
                  > >
                  >
                  > great. thanks again. ill be trying the rum in the near future and
                  > will let you know how it turned out. made a small continous still
                  > and didnt like it. abv% to low on first run. time saved by not
                  > having to recharge the boiler and then reheat everything wasnt
                  worth
                  > the loss of quality... im a quality man not a quanity man!! ive
                  > posted some pics of my first still i built and some of the
                  > modifications i made to get 90+ abv out of it. have a look if you
                  > please, just keep in mind it is the first one i built.
                  >
                  >
                  > This message and any attached files may contain information that
                  is confidential and/or subject of legal privilege intended only for
                  use by the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient
                  or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended
                  recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error
                  and that any dissemination, copying or use of this message or
                  attachment is strictly forbidden, as is the disclosure of the
                  information therein. If you have received this message in error
                  please notify the sender immediately and delete the message.
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.