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Re: [new_distillers] EL Column - 1.5" vs. 2" tradeoffs/improvements?

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  • _{*L*}_
    I must upset you... your statements show that you do not operate Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else’s statements. Also, saying that
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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      I must upset you... your statements show that you do not operate Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else’s statements. Also, saying that “mini-still... <snip> is optimum, but just barely... <snip>” is an oxymoron. This is not even near correct as you are writing in your post. With the same attitude you doubt the cooling capacity of the coil.

      All of if is incorrect. Below are the facts about Mini-Still...

      1. Correctly manufactured Mini-Still keeps 78*C steady temperature throughout of the whole run as a rock. I find myself tempted to leave it alone for hours. Great many people can confirm that operation of the still is almost fool-proof.

      2. Cooling coil is more than adequate if wrapped in stainless steel or copper gauze. There is a video floating on the net which I made to prove that the top of the condenser, where the coils is inserted, is absolutely cold. In that video I keep my fingers on the condenser top continuously. If it would be overheated by vapors I would not be able to do that.

      I am done with reply to your statements regarding Mini-Still. Now I will make statement regarding your indeciin-decisionsding a Mini-Still is cheap, fast and easy. Why not make one and see for yourself? Then you can think of improvements... Just follow the link in the signature and you will see how deep it leads you...


      ethanall <ethanall@...> wrote: The 1.5" x 24" EL design (i.e. Alex's Mini-Still) is clearly a proven
      one but appears that it requires almost constant adjusting of reflux,
      and the coil seems to be the bare minimum cooling capacity, i.e. it is
      at optimum but just barely. If this is anywhere near a correct
      observation, I am seeking ways to get some operating 'breathing room'
      by optimizing the still further, and hoping that going to a 2" column
      and larger, longer coil will provide this.

      So my question is this: What coil length, packing height + space above
      packing, and the height occupied by overlapping upper and lower plates
      (all adding up to OAL)would represent an 'optimized' version of the
      still. Would this improve the collection rate as well as make the
      still more easily controlled? Assume a 20 liter pot and typical
      stovetop/hotplate heat source.

      Are there any other factors that would constitute pros & cons or
      tradoffs?

      I have read many, many posts in trying to understand this but can't
      seem to find a decisive answer, and do not understand the complex
      physics that Nixon, McCaw and others write about.


      Thanks.


      _{*L*}_
      Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
      http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert Thomas
      Just to cool the wash a little (forgive the metaphor/simily) there is a considerable amount that any new distiller (or even old hands) can learn just by making
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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        Just to cool the wash a little (forgive the metaphor/simily) there is a
        considerable amount that any new distiller (or even old hands) can
        learn just by making up a design. If that design has more than one
        supporter, then all the better. It means you have a functioning still.
        Whether the way it works fits in with your ideal in perhaps another
        matter. Either the still can be improved (or redesigned) or your ideals
        are unrealistic (either due to physics or cost or unnecessary
        fiddling).
        If stilling is the point, then try a proven design. If you want to get
        a thrill out of proving a hypothesis, then play with your ideas.
        Personally, I like a drink after fiddling about with "improved"
        designs, so I have a still built to (roughly) designs that are proved
        to be workable (if not necessarily perfect). The dramatically
        efficient, easy to use, autostill can then wait for another day of
        tinkering!
        ymmv
        Cheers,
        Rob.


        --- _{*L*}_ <bokakob@...> wrote:

        > I must upset you... your statements show that you do not operate
        > Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else�s
        > statements. Also, saying that �mini-still... <snip> is optimum, but
        > just barely... <snip>� is an oxymoron. This is not even near
        correct
        > as you are writing in your post. With the same attitude you doubt the
        > cooling capacity of the coil.
        >
        > All of if is incorrect. Below are the facts about Mini-Still...
        >
        > 1. Correctly manufactured Mini-Still keeps 78*C steady temperature
        > throughout of the whole run as a rock. I find myself tempted to leave
        > it alone for hours. Great many people can confirm that operation of
        > the still is almost fool-proof.
        >
        > 2. Cooling coil is more than adequate if wrapped in stainless steel
        > or copper gauze. There is a video floating on the net which I made to
        > prove that the top of the condenser, where the coils is inserted, is
        > absolutely cold. In that video I keep my fingers on the condenser top
        > continuously. If it would be overheated by vapors I would not be able
        > to do that.
        >
        > I am done with reply to your statements regarding Mini-Still. Now I
        > will make statement regarding your indeciin-decisionsding a
        > Mini-Still is cheap, fast and easy. Why not make one and see for
        > yourself? Then you can think of improvements... Just follow the link
        > in the signature and you will see how deep it leads you...
        >
        >
        > ethanall <ethanall@...> wrote: The 1.5" x 24" EL design (i.e.
        > Alex's Mini-Still) is clearly a proven
        > one but appears that it requires almost constant adjusting of reflux,
        >
        > and the coil seems to be the bare minimum cooling capacity, i.e. it
        > is
        > at optimum but just barely. If this is anywhere near a correct
        > observation, I am seeking ways to get some operating 'breathing room'
        >
        > by optimizing the still further, and hoping that going to a 2" column
        >
        > and larger, longer coil will provide this.
        >
        > So my question is this: What coil length, packing height + space
        > above
        > packing, and the height occupied by overlapping upper and lower
        > plates
        > (all adding up to OAL)would represent an 'optimized' version of the
        > still. Would this improve the collection rate as well as make the
        > still more easily controlled? Assume a 20 liter pot and typical
        > stovetop/hotplate heat source.
        >
        > Are there any other factors that would constitute pros & cons or
        > tradoffs?
        >
        > I have read many, many posts in trying to understand this but can't
        > seem to find a decisive answer, and do not understand the complex
        > physics that Nixon, McCaw and others write about.
        >
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        >
        > _{*L*}_
        > Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
        > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        Cheers,
        Rob.




        __________________________________
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      • ethanall
        ... Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else s statements. ... Thanks Alex for killer reply. So newbies ask dumb questions and get soundly
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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          bokakob wrote:

          > I must upset you... your statements show that you do not operate
          Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else's
          statements.

          > ethanall wrote:
          > I have read many, many posts in >trying to understand this >


          Thanks Alex for killer reply. So newbies ask dumb questions and get
          soundly scolded for trying to learn on this site designed for
          newbies, by reading all of the archives and you call it "mulling"?

          You have asked for help on other forums you belong to. Does this
          look familiar Alex? Read on:
          ------
          "Trust me, I tried to lurk in user groups, visited different
          .... sites, asked questions on forums and so far I am still
          gathering bits and pieces.

          Can anyone or all of you tech-lords somehow come down on earth and
          help compiling this list "WHAT TO DO" for mere mortals? Literally,
          without much explanations ......"

          "I would like to contribute and maintain this "newbie" directions.
          If anyone who knows this stuff can mail to me little bits and pieces
          I would be honored to help the free community."

          Sincerely, Alex...

          Source:
          tech@...
          -----

          (Does that sound like 'someone' begging for help as a newbie? )


          So I ask these questions to learn as a "mere mortal". Sorry to piss
          off impatient "tech-lord". To quote a nice distiller guy, "Trust me,
          I tried to lurk in user groups, visited different sites, asked
          questions on forums and so far I am still gathering bits and
          pieces!" :-):-)

          Maybe I am excited about the Mini-Still! If I get it going nicely
          I'll buy you a drink sometime Alex!
          P.S. where is this nice movie you made and use DIVX (then XVID; LOL
          another forum you raise hell with carefully chosen words on). I'd
          like to see the movie.

          All in fun - verbal jousting. :-)
        • sonum norbu
          Fight you bastards. I hate peace!!! lololol...blanikdog ... From: ethanall To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [new_distillers] Re: EL Column - 1.5
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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            Fight you bastards. I hate peace!!! lololol...blanikdog

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ethanall
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: EL Column - 1.5" vs. 2"
            tradeoffs/improvements?
            Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:54:28 -0000

            bokakob wrote:

            > I must upset you... your statements show that you do not operate
            Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else's
            statements.

            > ethanall wrote:
            > I have read many, many posts in >trying to understand this >


            Thanks Alex for killer reply. So newbies ask dumb questions and get
            soundly scolded for trying to learn on this site designed for
            newbies, by reading all of the archives and you call it "mulling"?

            You have asked for help on other forums you belong to. Does this
            look familiar Alex? Read on:
            ------
            "Trust me, I tried to lurk in user groups, visited different
            .... sites, asked questions on forums and so far I am still
            gathering bits and pieces.

            Can anyone or all of you tech-lords somehow come down on earth and
            help compiling this list "WHAT TO DO" for mere mortals? Literally,
            without much explanations ......"

            "I would like to contribute and maintain this "newbie" directions.
            If anyone who knows this stuff can mail to me little bits and pieces
            I would be honored to help the free community."

            Sincerely, Alex...

            Source:
            tech@...
            -----

            (Does that sound like 'someone' begging for help as a newbie? )


            So I ask these questions to learn as a "mere mortal". Sorry to piss
            off impatient "tech-lord". To quote a nice distiller guy, "Trust me,
            I tried to lurk in user groups, visited different sites, asked
            questions on forums and so far I am still gathering bits and
            pieces!" :-):-)

            Maybe I am excited about the Mini-Still! If I get it going nicely
            I'll buy you a drink sometime Alex!
            P.S. where is this nice movie you made and use DIVX (then XVID; LOL
            another forum you raise hell with carefully chosen words on). I'd
            like to see the movie.

            All in fun - verbal jousting. :-)







            New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
            FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org




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          • _{*L*}_
            the difference is that i am *asking* and not making blunt statements if you ask i will anwer ethanall wrote: ... Mini-Still and you
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 4, 2006
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              the difference is that i am *asking* and not making blunt statements"
              if you ask i will anwer

              ethanall <ethanall@...> wrote:
              bokakob wrote:

              > I must upset you... your statements show that you do not operate
              Mini-Still and you conclude by mulling around somebody else's
              statements.

              > ethanall wrote:
              > I have read many, many posts in >trying to understand this >


              Thanks Alex for killer reply. So newbies ask dumb questions and get
              soundly scolded for trying to learn on this site designed for
              newbies, by reading all of the archives and you call it "mulling"?

              You have asked for help on other forums you belong to. Does this
              look familiar Alex? Read on:
              ------
              "Trust me, I tried to lurk in user groups, visited different
              .... sites, asked questions on forums and so far I am still
              gathering bits and pieces.

              Can anyone or all of you tech-lords somehow come down on earth and
              help compiling this list "WHAT TO DO" for mere mortals? Literally,
              without much explanations ......"

              "I would like to contribute and maintain this "newbie" directions.
              If anyone who knows this stuff can mail to me little bits and pieces
              I would be honored to help the free community."

              Sincerely, Alex...

              Source:
              tech@...
              -----

              (Does that sound like 'someone' begging for help as a newbie? )


              So I ask these questions to learn as a "mere mortal". Sorry to piss
              off impatient "tech-lord". To quote a nice distiller guy, "Trust me,
              I tried to lurk in user groups, visited different sites, asked
              questions on forums and so far I am still gathering bits and
              pieces!" :-):-)

              Maybe I am excited about the Mini-Still! If I get it going nicely
              I'll buy you a drink sometime Alex!
              P.S. where is this nice movie you made and use DIVX (then XVID; LOL
              another forum you raise hell with carefully chosen words on). I'd
              like to see the movie.

              All in fun - verbal jousting. :-)







              New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
              FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





              ---------------------------------
              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


              Visit your group "new_distillers" on the web.

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              ---------------------------------






              _{*L*}_
              Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
              http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob



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            • Jack Gross
              …to cool the wash a little… . While only the author knows exactly what is meant, it may be more of an analogy than a metaphor/slimily. Yack 144 [Non-text
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 4, 2006
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                "�to cool the wash a little�". While only the author knows exactly what is
                meant, it may be more of an analogy than a metaphor/slimily.

                Yack 144


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