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Help!!!! Can't get fermentation to work on corn mash

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  • mnbryant2001
    This is my first post here and I have enjoyed the group. I have recently obtained a permit to make fuel alcohol and have malted my first batch. I am using
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 7, 2005
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      This is my first post here and I have enjoyed the group. I have
      recently obtained a permit to make fuel alcohol and have malted my
      first batch. I am using ground corn malted with 10% malted corn. I
      cooked the corn and added the malt at 15 degrees and held for 90
      minutes. The mash is very sticking like it is suger but the iodine
      test is almost black with a purple tinge. I cooked another batch and
      have the same problem. I ajusted the ph to 6. I have added more than
      enough yeast at this point and all it will do is bubble here and there
      after 3 days. The water temp is 75 degrees. I have made wine before
      and never had this problem. I thought I would try adding sugar tonight
      to see if for some reason convertion isn't working. Any
      suggestions...Thanks Mike
    • Harry
      ... there ... tonight ... I assume the 15 degrees is a typo? 150° would be the norm. The problem is the malted corn. Corn has notoriously low Diastatic
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 7, 2005
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mnbryant2001"
        <mnbryant2001@y...> wrote:
        >
        > This is my first post here and I have enjoyed the group. I have
        > recently obtained a permit to make fuel alcohol and have malted my
        > first batch. I am using ground corn malted with 10% malted corn. I
        > cooked the corn and added the malt at 15 degrees and held for 90
        > minutes. The mash is very sticking like it is suger but the iodine
        > test is almost black with a purple tinge. I cooked another batch and
        > have the same problem. I ajusted the ph to 6. I have added more than
        > enough yeast at this point and all it will do is bubble here and
        there
        > after 3 days. The water temp is 75 degrees. I have made wine before
        > and never had this problem. I thought I would try adding sugar
        tonight
        > to see if for some reason convertion isn't working. Any
        > suggestions...Thanks Mike
        >






        I assume the 15 degrees is a typo? 150° would be the norm.
        The problem is the malted corn. Corn has notoriously low Diastatic
        Power, less than a quarter of the capability of barley, weight for
        weight. Either use 15% malt barley (recommended), powdered enzymes
        (expensive), or boost the amount of malted corn in the grain bill to
        2/3rds malted corn to each 1/3rd cornmeal.

        Unmalted grains or meals can only be used in conjunction with malted
        grains, otherwise the starches in the unmalted grain do not get
        converted to sugar, and so the starches end up in your beer. Starch
        in beer provides for a feeding frenzy for beer spoiling bacteria, thus
        dramatically increasing your chances of infection. This is nasty for
        beverages, but not so for fuel usage, although in both cases it will
        drastically lower the alcohol yield and make it uneconomical.

        Grains with starches absolutely must be mashed - that is they must be
        cracked and soaked in hot water at 149F to 160F for about 45 minutes
        in order to convert the starch to sugar. Only grains with high
        Diastatic Power like 6-row barley have the capability to do this
        conversion.


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
        Moderator
      • mnbryant2001
        Yes it was a typo. Thanks for your help. ... my ... I ... iodine ... and ... than ... before ... Diastatic ... enzymes ... to ... malted ... Starch ... thus
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 7, 2005
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          Yes it was a typo. Thanks for your help.



          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mnbryant2001"
          > <mnbryant2001@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > This is my first post here and I have enjoyed the group. I have
          > > recently obtained a permit to make fuel alcohol and have malted
          my
          > > first batch. I am using ground corn malted with 10% malted corn.
          I
          > > cooked the corn and added the malt at 15 degrees and held for 90
          > > minutes. The mash is very sticking like it is suger but the
          iodine
          > > test is almost black with a purple tinge. I cooked another batch
          and
          > > have the same problem. I ajusted the ph to 6. I have added more
          than
          > > enough yeast at this point and all it will do is bubble here and
          > there
          > > after 3 days. The water temp is 75 degrees. I have made wine
          before
          > > and never had this problem. I thought I would try adding sugar
          > tonight
          > > to see if for some reason convertion isn't working. Any
          > > suggestions...Thanks Mike
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I assume the 15 degrees is a typo? 150° would be the norm.
          > The problem is the malted corn. Corn has notoriously low
          Diastatic
          > Power, less than a quarter of the capability of barley, weight for
          > weight. Either use 15% malt barley (recommended), powdered
          enzymes
          > (expensive), or boost the amount of malted corn in the grain bill
          to
          > 2/3rds malted corn to each 1/3rd cornmeal.
          >
          > Unmalted grains or meals can only be used in conjunction with
          malted
          > grains, otherwise the starches in the unmalted grain do not get
          > converted to sugar, and so the starches end up in your beer.
          Starch
          > in beer provides for a feeding frenzy for beer spoiling bacteria,
          thus
          > dramatically increasing your chances of infection. This is nasty
          for
          > beverages, but not so for fuel usage, although in both cases it
          will
          > drastically lower the alcohol yield and make it uneconomical.
          >
          > Grains with starches absolutely must be mashed - that is they must
          be
          > cracked and soaked in hot water at 149F to 160F for about 45
          minutes
          > in order to convert the starch to sugar. Only grains with high
          > Diastatic Power like 6-row barley have the capability to do this
          > conversion.
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          > Moderator
          >
        • Cary Rhodes
          Mike I have had variable results with the conversion process. I have never tried with corn malt. I assume you are preparing your own sprouted corn. I have
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 7, 2005
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            Mike

            I have had variable results with the conversion process. I have
            never tried with corn malt. I assume you are preparing your own
            sprouted corn.

            I have had better results using wheat malt. Sources tell me the corn
            malt is harder to achieve.

            You are grinding the malt just prior to stiring it into the mash. I
            use a coffee grinder for this.

            Sometimes it converts and sometimes it doesn't. When I suspect there
            is a problem I add sugar to make sure there is fermentables in there.

            Then save the grain and 'slop back' on the next batch.

            just my experiences.

            cary r



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mnbryant2001"
            <mnbryant2001@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes it was a typo. Thanks for your help.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mnbryant2001"
            > > <mnbryant2001@y...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > This is my first post here and I have enjoyed the group. I have
            > > > recently obtained a permit to make fuel alcohol and have malted
            > my
            > > > first batch. I am using ground corn malted with 10% malted
            corn.
            > I
            > > > cooked the corn and added the malt at 15 degrees and held for
            90
            > > > minutes. The mash is very sticking like it is suger but the
            > iodine
            > > > test is almost black with a purple tinge. I cooked another
            batch
            > and
            > > > have the same problem. I ajusted the ph to 6. I have added more
            > than
            > > > enough yeast at this point and all it will do is bubble here
            and
            > > there
            > > > after 3 days. The water temp is 75 degrees. I have made wine
            > before
            > > > and never had this problem. I thought I would try adding sugar
            > > tonight
            > > > to see if for some reason convertion isn't working. Any
            > > > suggestions...Thanks Mike
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I assume the 15 degrees is a typo? 150° would be the norm.
            > > The problem is the malted corn. Corn has notoriously low
            > Diastatic
            > > Power, less than a quarter of the capability of barley, weight
            for
            > > weight. Either use 15% malt barley (recommended), powdered
            > enzymes
            > > (expensive), or boost the amount of malted corn in the grain bill
            > to
            > > 2/3rds malted corn to each 1/3rd cornmeal.
            > >
            > > Unmalted grains or meals can only be used in conjunction with
            > malted
            > > grains, otherwise the starches in the unmalted grain do not get
            > > converted to sugar, and so the starches end up in your beer.
            > Starch
            > > in beer provides for a feeding frenzy for beer spoiling bacteria,
            > thus
            > > dramatically increasing your chances of infection. This is nasty
            > for
            > > beverages, but not so for fuel usage, although in both cases it
            > will
            > > drastically lower the alcohol yield and make it uneconomical.
            > >
            > > Grains with starches absolutely must be mashed - that is they
            must
            > be
            > > cracked and soaked in hot water at 149F to 160F for about 45
            > minutes
            > > in order to convert the starch to sugar. Only grains with high
            > > Diastatic Power like 6-row barley have the capability to do this
            > > conversion.
            > >
            > >
            > > Slainte!
            > > regards Harry
            > > Moderator
            > >
            >
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