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Re: [new_distillers] Wheat vodka disaster

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  • Robert Thomas
    My guess: 1. using the silk pillow case without letting the wife know; 2. Having ruined that, moving on to the cotton on, again, without letting the wife know;
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 7, 2005
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      My guess:
      1. using the silk pillow case without letting the wife
      know;
      2. Having ruined that, moving on to the cotton on,
      again, without letting the wife know;
      3. Smelling the house out with burnt stench, this time
      the wife knew all about it!
      4. Not having any vodka to calm the now hostile and
      rather dangerous looking wife.

      I'd keep the porridgy mess you've been working with.
      It might be all the cooked food you'll get for a
      while.

      Cheers,
      Rob.



      --- hypodyne <hypodyne@...> wrote:

      > Gday all
      >
      > Awhile ago I found a pdf All-grain wheat mash vodka.
      > I have tried
      > twice to make wheat vodka and failed both times.
      >
      > First time I used the wrong yeast.
      >
      > Second time I bought some yeast with AG which seem
      > to ferment the
      > mash okay. The mash being a mixture of 1.5 packets
      > Farmland Whole
      > wheat biscuit (1.8kg total) and wheat malt sryrup
      > 1L. Once the yeast
      > was added it seem to bubble away for a few days. By
      > the 3rd day it
      > began to smell a bit off.
      >
      > So I decide to distill it. First problem I had was
      > to try to
      > seperate the liquid from the solids. I used a silk
      > pillowcase and
      > poured the mixture in but the liquid would not pass
      > through it.
      > Deciding that the silk pillowcase must have been too
      > fine I used a
      > cotton one. Same problem, no liquid would pass
      > through it even after
      > suspending it. The bag was suspended over a
      > container and out of the
      > 15L batch maybe one litre was in the bowl. Squeezing
      > didnt work.
      >
      > So I decided to try to distill with the solids still
      > in the mix. The
      > solids just burnt on the bottom of the still and
      > sent a burnt taste
      > through the heads. I abandened the attempt after
      > collecting 100mls.
      >
      > Any thoughts on where I went wrong.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Cheers,
      Rob.



      __________________________________
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    • hypodyne
      The PDF is http://www.brewhaus.com/Wheat-Vodka-Recipe.pdf ... tried ... the ... Whole ... it ... and ... a ... 100mls.
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 7, 2005
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        The PDF is http://www.brewhaus.com/Wheat-Vodka-Recipe.pdf

        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Gday all
        > >
        > > Awhile ago I found a pdf All-grain wheat mash vodka. I have
        tried
        > > twice to make wheat vodka and failed both times.
        > >
        > > First time I used the wrong yeast.
        > >
        > > Second time I bought some yeast with AG which seem to ferment
        the
        > > mash okay. The mash being a mixture of 1.5 packets Farmland
        Whole
        > > wheat biscuit (1.8kg total) and wheat malt sryrup 1L. Once the
        > yeast
        > > was added it seem to bubble away for a few days. By the 3rd day
        it
        > > began to smell a bit off.
        > >
        > > So I decide to distill it. First problem I had was to try to
        > > seperate the liquid from the solids. I used a silk pillowcase
        and
        > > poured the mixture in but the liquid would not pass through it.
        > > Deciding that the silk pillowcase must have been too fine I used
        a
        > > cotton one. Same problem, no liquid would pass through it even
        > after
        > > suspending it. The bag was suspended over a container and out of
        > the
        > > 15L batch maybe one litre was in the bowl. Squeezing didnt work.
        > >
        > > So I decided to try to distill with the solids still in the mix.
        > The
        > > solids just burnt on the bottom of the still and sent a burnt
        > taste
        > > through the heads. I abandened the attempt after collecting
        100mls.
        > >
        > > Any thoughts on where I went wrong.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Plenty of thoughts, but first, point me to the pdf.
        >
        >
        > Slainte!
        > regards Harry
        > Moderator
        >
      • Harry
        ... day ... it. ... used ... of ... work. ... mix. ... Ok, first of all the author of that pdf is a very reputable person in distilling circles, one Ian
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 7, 2005
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > The PDF is http://www.brewhaus.com/Wheat-Vodka-Recipe.pdf

          > > > Gday all
          > > >
          > > > Awhile ago I found a pdf All-grain wheat mash vodka. I have
          > tried
          > > > twice to make wheat vodka and failed both times.
          > > >
          > > > First time I used the wrong yeast.
          > > >
          > > > Second time I bought some yeast with AG which seem to ferment
          > the
          > > > mash okay. The mash being a mixture of 1.5 packets Farmland
          > Whole
          > > > wheat biscuit (1.8kg total) and wheat malt sryrup 1L. Once the
          > > yeast
          > > > was added it seem to bubble away for a few days. By the 3rd
          day
          > it
          > > > began to smell a bit off.
          > > >
          > > > So I decide to distill it. First problem I had was to try to
          > > > seperate the liquid from the solids. I used a silk pillowcase
          > and
          > > > poured the mixture in but the liquid would not pass through
          it.
          > > > Deciding that the silk pillowcase must have been too fine I
          used
          > a
          > > > cotton one. Same problem, no liquid would pass through it even
          > > after
          > > > suspending it. The bag was suspended over a container and out
          of
          > > the
          > > > 15L batch maybe one litre was in the bowl. Squeezing didnt
          work.
          > > >
          > > > So I decided to try to distill with the solids still in the
          mix.
          > > The
          > > > solids just burnt on the bottom of the still and sent a burnt
          > > taste
          > > > through the heads. I abandened the attempt after collecting
          > 100mls.
          > > >
          > > > Any thoughts on where I went wrong.



          Ok, first of all the author of that pdf is a very reputable person
          in distilling circles, one Ian Smiley. After reading the pdf I
          couldn't see anything wrong with it (didn't expect to).

          I do note however that your mash has deviated considerably from the
          stated recipe. Let's look at a few things.

          You're using substitute wheat sources. That's fine except for one
          very important fact. You now have NO ENZYMES!! When Ian Smiley
          says crushed wheat malt, he means wheat that has been sprouted to
          generate enzyme activity. This is necessary to convert the other
          starches. Malt extract, wheat or otherwise, has NO ENZYME
          ACTIVITY. That's why it smells off. It's full of bacteria eating
          up big on the unconverted starch.


          You say that the first time you used the wrong yeast, then the
          second time you used the recipe's recommended yeast with AG. The AG
          is AmyloGlucosidase, which converts the residual starches and some
          unfermentable sugars, AFTER the bulk of the starch has been
          converted by the crushed wheat malt. If you were getting good
          primary conversion, (which you're not, no enzymes) almost any yeast
          would work, AG or not.

          What you're getting is a tiny bit of conversion through the AG and
          that's all. So the obvious thing to do for starters is to use
          SPROUTED WHEAT MALT, not liquid malt extract.

          The next thing to look at is the amount of starches/sugars in your
          altered recipe. 1.8 kg of flake and 1 kg of LME is only equal to
          about 2.5 kg potential sugar, IF it's fully converted. That's a bit
          low for 15 litres of water, and at best will only produce ~2 litres
          of 43% finished drinking spirit.

          If you're going to go to all this trouble for a couple of bottles,
          then is it worth it? I realise you're probably trying to prove to
          yourself that it's feasible, but really, do a full mash BY THE
          RECIPE. Then you'll have some sort of a result and it will give you
          the courage to continue. Most newcomers to grain distilling make
          this mistake and that's why many never go any further.

          Resolve the enzyme issue first, then worry about the separating with
          pillowcases after you have something to work with.

          Hope this points you in the right direction.


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
          Moderator
        • hypodyne
          ... the ... AG ... yeast ... That was the only malt I could find locally, will look for some crushed wheat malt. ... bit ... litres ... Yes I want to see if
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 8, 2005
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            > Ok, first of all the author of that pdf is a very reputable person
            > in distilling circles, one Ian Smiley. After reading the pdf I
            > couldn't see anything wrong with it (didn't expect to).
            >
            > I do note however that your mash has deviated considerably from
            the
            > stated recipe. Let's look at a few things.
            >
            > You're using substitute wheat sources. That's fine except for one
            > very important fact. You now have NO ENZYMES!! When Ian Smiley
            > says crushed wheat malt, he means wheat that has been sprouted to
            > generate enzyme activity. This is necessary to convert the other
            > starches. Malt extract, wheat or otherwise, has NO ENZYME
            > ACTIVITY. That's why it smells off. It's full of bacteria eating
            > up big on the unconverted starch.
            >
            >
            > You say that the first time you used the wrong yeast, then the
            > second time you used the recipe's recommended yeast with AG. The
            AG
            > is AmyloGlucosidase, which converts the residual starches and some
            > unfermentable sugars, AFTER the bulk of the starch has been
            > converted by the crushed wheat malt. If you were getting good
            > primary conversion, (which you're not, no enzymes) almost any
            yeast
            > would work, AG or not.
            >
            > What you're getting is a tiny bit of conversion through the AG and
            > that's all. So the obvious thing to do for starters is to use
            > SPROUTED WHEAT MALT, not liquid malt extract.

            That was the only malt I could find locally, will look for some
            crushed wheat malt.

            > The next thing to look at is the amount of starches/sugars in your
            > altered recipe. 1.8 kg of flake and 1 kg of LME is only equal to
            > about 2.5 kg potential sugar, IF it's fully converted. That's a
            bit
            > low for 15 litres of water, and at best will only produce ~2
            litres
            > of 43% finished drinking spirit.
            >
            > If you're going to go to all this trouble for a couple of bottles,
            > then is it worth it? I realise you're probably trying to prove to
            > yourself that it's feasible, but really, do a full mash BY THE
            > RECIPE.

            Yes I want to see if the extra trouble to wheat vodka is worth all
            the trouble.

            FULL MIX
            23L Water
            4K flaked wheat
            3/4K finely crushed wheat malt

            HALF MIX
            11.5L Water
            2K flaked wheat
            3/8K finely crushed wheat malt

            Well the pdf does state that it scales well and the mix is 1/2 the
            original quantities. The reason I have done this is because my
            fermenter (Stainless Steel Stock Pot) is only 18liters. If I had
            done a full mash quantities I would have had the same quantities
            just in seperate stock pots.

            > Then you'll have some sort of a result and it will give you
            > the courage to continue. Most newcomers to grain distilling make
            > this mistake and that's why many never go any further.
            >
            > Resolve the enzyme issue first, then worry about the separating
            with
            > pillowcases after you have something to work with.

            Well if I make a successful mash and still cannot seperate it I get
            the same result as an unsuccessful mash, it all goes to the compost.

            > Hope this points you in the right direction.
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            > Moderator
            >
          • Harry
            ... ...........I doubt very much if you will find wheat malt commercially. Everybody uses 6-row barley malt, available at good homebrew outlets. This will do
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 8, 2005
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
              wrote:
              > So the obvious thing to do for starters is to use
              > > SPROUTED WHEAT MALT, not liquid malt extract.
              >
              > That was the only malt I could find locally, will look for some
              > crushed wheat malt.



              ...........I doubt very much if you will find wheat malt
              commercially. Everybody uses 6-row barley malt, available at good
              homebrew outlets. This will do the job and much better than wheat
              malt. Remember you have to crush the malt yourself with a coffee
              grinder or pastry roller or similar. Otherwise the enzymes aren't
              exposed to the mash and again you get little to no conversion.

              You can always malt your own wheat, but it's a PITA, and requires
              good seed wheat (not cheap) and some expertise.

              For a test batch, get the barley, or just use enzyme powder.





              >
              >
              > Yes I want to see if the extra trouble to wheat vodka is worth all
              > the trouble.

              >
              > Well if I make a successful mash and still cannot seperate it I
              get
              > the same result as an unsuccessful mash, it all goes to the
              compost.


              ..................If you make a successful mash, it will have thin
              watery sweet liquid, the wort, which will be much easier to
              separate. There's a huge difference between a converted mash and
              one that's basically still all starch (flour & water glue ring any
              bells?).

              Mashing all grain beers is a skill, just like any other. The wort
              we make as distillers is identical in every respect to beer except
              for the hops. Distillers beer has no hops (too bitter when
              distilled).

              There are many excellent tutorials on the web for making all grain
              beer. May I suggest John Palmer's excellent paper... "A "Cooler"
              Way to Ease into All-Grain Brewing". Link here...
              http://tinyurl.com/aobp3

              John also has a full book "How to Brew", readable online here...
              http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html


              Bottom line is, all grain brewing for distilling purposes produces
              some remarkable whiskies, and to a lesser extent vodkas. However
              there's a lot of work involved and it doesn't produce lots of
              alcohol like you can with sugar worts. That's why I suggested you
              cut corners with powdered enzymes and make a full batch to make it
              worthwhile.



              Slainte!
              regards Harry
              Moderator
            • hypodyne
              ... Could not find enzyme powder. Found malted grain (photo under the hypodyne directory) which I think is barley and bought a coffee grinder. So I have to
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 12, 2005
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > So the obvious thing to do for starters is to use
                > > > SPROUTED WHEAT MALT, not liquid malt extract.
                > >
                > > That was the only malt I could find locally, will look for some
                > > crushed wheat malt.
                >
                >
                >
                > ...........I doubt very much if you will find wheat malt
                > commercially. Everybody uses 6-row barley malt, available at good
                > homebrew outlets. This will do the job and much better than wheat
                > malt. Remember you have to crush the malt yourself with a coffee
                > grinder or pastry roller or similar. Otherwise the enzymes aren't
                > exposed to the mash and again you get little to no conversion.
                >
                > You can always malt your own wheat, but it's a PITA, and requires
                > good seed wheat (not cheap) and some expertise.
                >
                > For a test batch, get the barley, or just use enzyme powder.

                Could not find enzyme powder. Found malted grain (photo under the
                hypodyne directory) which I think is barley and bought a coffee
                grinder.

                So I have to germinate the barley and then crush it. I am guessing
                that the results are going to be a paste instead of a dry powder.

                Any information on malting around? Suppose I should google it.

                > > Yes I want to see if the extra trouble to wheat vodka is worth
                all
                > > the trouble.
                >
                > >
                > > Well if I make a successful mash and still cannot seperate it I
                > get
                > > the same result as an unsuccessful mash, it all goes to the
                > compost.
                >
                >
                > ..................If you make a successful mash, it will have thin
                > watery sweet liquid, the wort, which will be much easier to
                > separate. There's a huge difference between a converted mash and
                > one that's basically still all starch (flour & water glue ring any
                > bells?).
                >
                > Mashing all grain beers is a skill, just like any other. The wort
                > we make as distillers is identical in every respect to beer except
                > for the hops. Distillers beer has no hops (too bitter when
                > distilled).
                >
                > There are many excellent tutorials on the web for making all grain
                > beer. May I suggest John Palmer's excellent paper... "A "Cooler"
                > Way to Ease into All-Grain Brewing". Link here...
                > http://tinyurl.com/aobp3
                >
                > John also has a full book "How to Brew", readable online here...
                > http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html
                >
                >
                > Bottom line is, all grain brewing for distilling purposes produces
                > some remarkable whiskies, and to a lesser extent vodkas. However
                > there's a lot of work involved and it doesn't produce lots of
                > alcohol like you can with sugar worts. That's why I suggested you
                > cut corners with powdered enzymes and make a full batch to make it
                > worthwhile.
                >
                >
                >
                > Slainte!
                > regards Harry
                > Moderator
                >
              • Harry
                ... Aw c mon. Quit yankin my chain! You don t REALLY mean to tell us you bought MALTED grain, export pils from West Brew in WA, and didn t ask em how to
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 13, 2005
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                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Could not find enzyme powder. Found malted grain (photo under the
                  > hypodyne directory) which I think is barley and bought a coffee
                  > grinder.
                  >
                  > So I have to germinate the barley and then crush it. I am guessing
                  > that the results are going to be a paste instead of a dry powder.
                  >
                  > Any information on malting around? Suppose I should google it.



                  Aw c'mon. Quit yankin' my chain! You don't REALLY mean to tell us
                  you bought MALTED grain, export pils from West Brew in WA, and
                  didn't ask 'em how to use it? (see you got the pic from their
                  website).
                  http://www.westbrew.com.au/index.html keyword search malt

                  The word MALTED means it's already been germinated, dried etc. and
                  ready to go to work!



                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                  Moderator
                • hypodyne
                  ... the ... guessing ... powder. ... us ... I did ask and the guy that sold it to me but he did not know. I thought that may have been the case, I asked online
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 13, 2005
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Could not find enzyme powder. Found malted grain (photo under
                    the
                    > > hypodyne directory) which I think is barley and bought a coffee
                    > > grinder.
                    > >
                    > > So I have to germinate the barley and then crush it. I am
                    guessing
                    > > that the results are going to be a paste instead of a dry
                    powder.
                    > >
                    > > Any information on malting around? Suppose I should google it.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Aw c'mon. Quit yankin' my chain! You don't REALLY mean to tell
                    us
                    > you bought MALTED grain, export pils from West Brew in WA, and
                    > didn't ask 'em how to use it? (see you got the pic from their
                    > website).
                    > http://www.westbrew.com.au/index.html keyword search malt
                    >
                    > The word MALTED means it's already been germinated, dried etc. and
                    > ready to go to work!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Slainte!
                    > regards Harry
                    > Moderator
                    >

                    I did ask and the guy that sold it to me but he did not know. I
                    thought that may have been the case, I asked online and they will
                    get back to me.(wont be holding my breath) So I tried some crushed
                    it up and added it to the mix and nothing at all happened.

                    From reading an article that I have to germinate the seed, then
                    crush it.

                    Thats pretty much what I thought Malted means but I take it in this
                    case it means Grain that can be malted.
                  • Robert Thomas
                    No, no, no. Malted grain is malted grain, nothing else. If nothing happenned when you crushed it and added it, then your technique is wrong. Check for correct
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 13, 2005
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                      No, no, no. Malted grain is malted grain, nothing else. If nothing happenned when you crushed it and added it, then your technique is wrong. Check for correct temperature, complete mixing, enough malted barley, enough time, correct pH.

                      The final, though unlikely reason (being as the bag looked hermetically sealed) is that the grain has gone slack (ie absorbed moisture and "gone off") The grain should be firm and quite hard to crush. When crushed it should produce powder/lumps, not playdo/dough type stuff.

                      Cheers,
                      Rob.


                      hypodyne <hypodyne@...> wrote: --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Could not find enzyme powder. Found malted grain (photo under
                      the
                      > > hypodyne directory) which I think is barley and bought a coffee
                      > > grinder.
                      > >
                      > > So I have to germinate the barley and then crush it. I am
                      guessing
                      > > that the results are going to be a paste instead of a dry
                      powder.
                      > >
                      > > Any information on malting around? Suppose I should google it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Aw c'mon. Quit yankin' my chain! You don't REALLY mean to tell
                      us
                      > you bought MALTED grain, export pils from West Brew in WA, and
                      > didn't ask 'em how to use it? (see you got the pic from their
                      > website).
                      > http://www.westbrew.com.au/index.html keyword search malt
                      >
                      > The word MALTED means it's already been germinated, dried etc. and
                      > ready to go to work!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry
                      > Moderator
                      >

                      I did ask and the guy that sold it to me but he did not know. I
                      thought that may have been the case, I asked online and they will
                      get back to me.(wont be holding my breath) So I tried some crushed
                      it up and added it to the mix and nothing at all happened.

                      From reading an article that I have to germinate the seed, then
                      crush it.

                      Thats pretty much what I thought Malted means but I take it in this
                      case it means Grain that can be malted.






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                      Cheers,
                      Rob.

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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • hypodyne
                      Okay here are the instructions that I follow to make a test batch. Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th) to prevent wasting ingrediants until I get
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 14, 2005
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                        Okay here are the instructions that I follow to make a test batch.
                        Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th) to prevent wasting
                        ingrediants until I get the recipe correct.

                        3rd Attempt recipe.

                        2.3L water
                        0.4 kg of flaked wheat
                        0.075 kg of finely crushed Malted Grain Export PILS
                        1/10th Prestige WD Active Dried Yeast with Amyloglucosidase (which
                        is suitable for 25L, 10 times current recipe)

                        Stainless Steel pot.
                        Meat thermometer
                        Electric coffee grinder

                        Grind the grain ready for use. It crushed up well into a powder
                        using the electric coffee grinder. No moisture.
                        Add water to pot.
                        Check the waters PH. Around 5.8 already.
                        Heat the water until it gets to 74 degrees C then turn off the heat.
                        Add the Whole Wheat biscuits. (97% wheat, sugar, salt, barley malt
                        extract, vitamins( niacin, thiamin, riboflavin)).
                        Stir for 5 mins.
                        Let it cool till it reaches 66 degrees C then add the crushed malted
                        barley and stir in.
                        Leave until it reaches under 38 degrees C (overnight which brings it
                        to room tempreture Between 15 and 25 degrees C (night/day)) .
                        Add the yeast at 20 degrees C in the morning and after it has
                        hydrated stir it in and put the lid back on.

                        Nothing happened in the fermentation (it just sat there).

                        Guessing it is something to do with the Malted grain as even the
                        (2nd attempt) malt extract gave some activity for the first couple
                        of days.
                      • Harry
                        ... wasting ... heat. ... malted ... it ... Why do you insist on using whole wheat biscuits? Any baker or housewife who cooks (any left out there?) will tell
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 14, 2005
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                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Okay here are the instructions that I follow to make a test batch.
                          > Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th) to prevent
                          wasting
                          > ingrediants until I get the recipe correct.
                          >
                          > 3rd Attempt recipe.
                          >
                          > 2.3L water
                          > 0.4 kg of flaked wheat
                          > 0.075 kg of finely crushed Malted Grain Export PILS
                          > 1/10th Prestige WD Active Dried Yeast with Amyloglucosidase (which
                          > is suitable for 25L, 10 times current recipe)
                          >
                          > Stainless Steel pot.
                          > Meat thermometer
                          > Electric coffee grinder
                          >
                          > Grind the grain ready for use. It crushed up well into a powder
                          > using the electric coffee grinder. No moisture.
                          > Add water to pot.
                          > Check the waters PH. Around 5.8 already.
                          > Heat the water until it gets to 74 degrees C then turn off the
                          heat.
                          > Add the Whole Wheat biscuits. (97% wheat, sugar, salt, barley malt
                          > extract, vitamins( niacin, thiamin, riboflavin)).
                          > Stir for 5 mins.
                          > Let it cool till it reaches 66 degrees C then add the crushed
                          malted
                          > barley and stir in.
                          > Leave until it reaches under 38 degrees C (overnight which brings
                          it
                          > to room tempreture Between 15 and 25 degrees C (night/day)) .
                          > Add the yeast at 20 degrees C in the morning and after it has
                          > hydrated stir it in and put the lid back on.
                          >
                          > Nothing happened in the fermentation (it just sat there).
                          >
                          > Guessing it is something to do with the Malted grain as even the
                          > (2nd attempt) malt extract gave some activity for the first couple
                          > of days.
                          >



                          Why do you insist on using whole wheat biscuits? Any baker or
                          housewife who cooks (any left out there?) will tell you, SALT
                          RETARDS YEAST.

                          You can't use ALL the water in one go. You will make the mash too
                          thin and the enzymes won't get contact with the starches to convert
                          them. The mash should be thick to start with, then when the
                          conversion reaction is finished, the rest of the water is added.

                          Splitting yeast packs is not a good idea. The ingredients are often
                          not well mixed, therefore you have no way of knowing if your 1/10th
                          is yeast, emzymes, buffer, nutrients, or (ideally) a combination of
                          all.

                          You state that "Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th) to
                          prevent wasting ingrediants until I get the recipe correct." Well
                          this is the 3rd attempt and still no result. I can't see that as
                          preventing wasting ingredients.

                          Also the size of the test batch won't produce much alcohol even if
                          all conditions are right, certainly not enough to prove the concept.

                          You're making things more & more difficult for yourself and just
                          confusing the issue. Make a full batch, with wheat or flaked wheat
                          BY THE PDF RECIPE. If it doesn't work, contact Gert Strand (yeast)
                          or Ian Smilie (recipe).


                          Slainte!
                          regards Harry
                          Moderator
                        • hypodyne
                          ... batch. ... (which ... malt ... brings ... couple ... Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as it works and is resonable priced.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 15, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Okay here are the instructions that I follow to make a test
                            batch.
                            > > Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th) to prevent
                            > wasting
                            > > ingrediants until I get the recipe correct.
                            > >
                            > > 3rd Attempt recipe.
                            > >
                            > > 2.3L water
                            > > 0.4 kg of flaked wheat
                            > > 0.075 kg of finely crushed Malted Grain Export PILS
                            > > 1/10th Prestige WD Active Dried Yeast with Amyloglucosidase
                            (which
                            > > is suitable for 25L, 10 times current recipe)
                            > >
                            > > Stainless Steel pot.
                            > > Meat thermometer
                            > > Electric coffee grinder
                            > >
                            > > Grind the grain ready for use. It crushed up well into a powder
                            > > using the electric coffee grinder. No moisture.
                            > > Add water to pot.
                            > > Check the waters PH. Around 5.8 already.
                            > > Heat the water until it gets to 74 degrees C then turn off the
                            > heat.
                            > > Add the Whole Wheat biscuits. (97% wheat, sugar, salt, barley
                            malt
                            > > extract, vitamins( niacin, thiamin, riboflavin)).
                            > > Stir for 5 mins.
                            > > Let it cool till it reaches 66 degrees C then add the crushed
                            > malted
                            > > barley and stir in.
                            > > Leave until it reaches under 38 degrees C (overnight which
                            brings
                            > it
                            > > to room tempreture Between 15 and 25 degrees C (night/day)) .
                            > > Add the yeast at 20 degrees C in the morning and after it has
                            > > hydrated stir it in and put the lid back on.
                            > >
                            > > Nothing happened in the fermentation (it just sat there).
                            > >
                            > > Guessing it is something to do with the Malted grain as even the
                            > > (2nd attempt) malt extract gave some activity for the first
                            couple
                            > > of days.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Why do you insist on using whole wheat biscuits? Any baker or
                            > housewife who cooks (any left out there?) will tell you, SALT
                            > RETARDS YEAST.

                            Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as
                            it works and is resonable priced. Biscuits are cheaper than the
                            loose wheat flakes.

                            I am neither a baker or a housewife and its the first time I have
                            heard that salt retards yeast. Since I used the same brand of wheat
                            biscuits and the yeast worked on the first attempt, I doubt the
                            trace amounts of salt are the problem.

                            But the question is why are you yelling? It's like your emotionally
                            attached to the yeast or something. If your going to get that upset
                            maybe you should just ignore my posts.

                            > You can't use ALL the water in one go. You will make the mash too
                            > thin and the enzymes won't get contact with the starches to
                            convert
                            > them. The mash should be thick to start with, then when the
                            > conversion reaction is finished, the rest of the water is added.

                            I have the other problem. It's too thick, maybe there is something
                            in the biscuits that glues them together, such as corn flour. When I
                            did the first large batch the last of the biscuits would not hydrate.

                            > Splitting yeast packs is not a good idea. The ingredients are
                            often
                            > not well mixed, therefore you have no way of knowing if your
                            1/10th
                            > is yeast, emzymes, buffer, nutrients, or (ideally) a combination
                            of
                            > all.
                            >
                            > You state that "Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th)
                            to
                            > prevent wasting ingrediants until I get the recipe correct." Well
                            > this is the 3rd attempt and still no result. I can't see that as
                            > preventing wasting ingredients.

                            Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                            So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                            of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                            $2 = $6.

                            All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing. The
                            recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.

                            > Also the size of the test batch won't produce much alcohol even if
                            > all conditions are right, certainly not enough to prove the
                            concept.
                            > You're making things more & more difficult for yourself and just
                            > confusing the issue. Make a full batch, with wheat or flaked
                            wheat
                            > BY THE PDF RECIPE. If it doesn't work, contact Gert Strand
                            (yeast)
                            > or Ian Smilie (recipe).

                            I dont care about the alcohol yet, I am interested in getting the
                            first stage right, with a smaller size I can afford to ditch it. The
                            exact ingrediants for the recipe are not advailable here and its the
                            only recipe I have found for wheat vodka. Although a recipe from
                            wheat grain to vodka would be ideal. So I doing trial and error to
                            see what works.

                            The last yeast worked, so I have no reason to suspect the yeast. I
                            have no reason to think there is anything wrong with the recipe
                            either.

                            Have you actually ever made wheat vodka?


                            > Slainte!
                            > regards Harry
                            > Moderator
                            >
                          • Robert Thomas
                            hypodyne wrote: --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Harry ... ... convert ... I have the other
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 15, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              hypodyne <hypodyne@...> wrote: --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "hypodyne" <hypodyne@y...>
                              <snip>

                              > You can't use ALL the water in one go. You will make the mash too
                              > thin and the enzymes won't get contact with the starches to
                              convert
                              > them. The mash should be thick to start with, then when the
                              > conversion reaction is finished, the rest of the water is added.

                              I have the other problem. It's too thick, maybe there is something
                              in the biscuits that glues them together, such as corn flour. When I
                              did the first large batch the last of the biscuits would not hydrate.

                              Harry's right, you do need to start thick. It really doesn't matter how hot the water is to hydrate the biscuits (providing you don't burn them)
                              The stickiness is due to a combination of starch and glutens. The malt will convert the starch to soluble sugars.


                              > Splitting yeast packs is not a good idea. The ingredients are
                              often
                              > not well mixed, therefore you have no way of knowing if your
                              1/10th
                              > is yeast, emzymes, buffer, nutrients, or (ideally) a combination
                              of
                              > all.
                              >
                              > You state that "Test batch is just a scaled down version (1/10th)
                              to
                              > prevent wasting ingrediants until I get the recipe correct." Well
                              > this is the 3rd attempt and still no result. I can't see that as
                              > preventing wasting ingredients.

                              Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                              So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                              of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                              $2 = $6.

                              All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing. The
                              recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.

                              Splitting the yeast is a problem, particularly if using only 1/10th of a pack.
                              Why not use bakers yeast (atleast in the tests, although it will work on the full batch - it just won't ferment > 12ish% or less than ca 1015).


                              <snip>

                              My other worry is the weighing out of 75g of malt. What volume is this? A handful? less? It may not be mixed in homogeneously.

                              And on such a small mash, how long is it at 66degC? You'll be losing heat very quickly I guess. If you put the whole lot in a plastic pop bottle and sink this in a big bucket of water at 66, you maintain temp for longer.

                              To gain confidence (and prove to yourself - and Harry) that the wheat biscuits work, take 50:50 biscuits and malt. The thick gloop should thin out as the starch conversion progresses. It should start as a thick porridge and finish as a barley soup (sweet).
                              Cheers,
                              Rob.




                              New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                              FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





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                              Cheers,
                              Rob.

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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Brendan Keith
                              ... Then use sugar. You obviously do care, since you keep choosing something sounds to you like it should work, but you keep making poor choices. You re
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 15, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                >
                                > Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as
                                > it works and is resonable priced. Biscuits are cheaper than the
                                > loose wheat flakes.

                                Then use sugar. You obviously do care, since you keep choosing something
                                sounds to you like it should work, but you keep making poor choices.
                                You're basing your choices on a few cents difference between a box of
                                biscuits vs a box of cereal?
                                If you want to be authentic, be authentic.

                                >
                                > I am neither a baker or a housewife and its the first time I have
                                > heard that salt retards yeast. Since I used the same brand of wheat
                                > biscuits and the yeast worked on the first attempt, I doubt the
                                > trace amounts of salt are the problem.

                                A very tiny bit of research would have told you that. It wouldn't be
                                a bad idea to investigate all of the ingredients that you are dumping
                                in, if you don't know what their consequences will be.

                                >
                                > But the question is why are you yelling? It's like your emotionally
                                > attached to the yeast or something. If your going to get that upset
                                > maybe you should just ignore my posts.

                                It's hard to ignore because you keep making such huge blunders that
                                could easily be avoided.

                                >
                                > Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                                > So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                                > of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                                > $2 = $6.
                                >
                                > All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing.

                                BINGO! The heart of the matter.
                                At least once or twice a week, newcomers are advised to read
                                http://homedistiller.org front to back. Have you?

                                > The recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.

                                Scaling usually means "up", not down to a fraction.

                                > I dont care about the alcohol yet, I am interested in getting the
                                > first stage right, with a smaller size I can afford to ditch it. The
                                > exact ingrediants for the recipe are not advailable here and its the
                                > only recipe I have found for wheat vodka. Although a recipe from
                                > wheat grain to vodka would be ideal. So I doing trial and error to
                                > see what works.

                                You seem to throwing a bunch of things in a bucket and hoping
                                vodka will pour out. There are a lot of steps in between that you
                                can observe and test for. If you don't understand what is going on,
                                you might get a valid result by pure chance 1 in 20 times.

                                >
                                > Have you actually ever made wheat vodka?

                                I'll bet Harry has made more things than you can dream up.

                                Also, there's reasons why fine vodkas and such are hard to make, it takes
                                good equipment, good ingredients and good technique.

                                --
                                Brendan Keith
                                bkeith@...
                              • sonum norbu
                                Well said!!! ... From: Brendan Keith To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat vodka disaster Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 15, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Well said!!!

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Brendan Keith"
                                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat vodka disaster
                                  Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:26:06 -0500

                                  >
                                  > Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as
                                  > it works and is resonable priced. Biscuits are cheaper than the
                                  > loose wheat flakes.

                                  Then use sugar. You obviously do care, since you keep choosing something
                                  sounds to you like it should work, but you keep making poor choices.
                                  You're basing your choices on a few cents difference between a box of
                                  biscuits vs a box of cereal?
                                  If you want to be authentic, be authentic.

                                  >
                                  > I am neither a baker or a housewife and its the first time I have
                                  > heard that salt retards yeast. Since I used the same brand of wheat
                                  > biscuits and the yeast worked on the first attempt, I doubt the
                                  > trace amounts of salt are the problem.

                                  A very tiny bit of research would have told you that. It wouldn't be
                                  a bad idea to investigate all of the ingredients that you are dumping
                                  in, if you don't know what their consequences will be.

                                  >
                                  > But the question is why are you yelling? It's like your emotionally
                                  > attached to the yeast or something. If your going to get that upset
                                  > maybe you should just ignore my posts.

                                  It's hard to ignore because you keep making such huge blunders that
                                  could easily be avoided.

                                  >
                                  > Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                                  > So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                                  > of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                                  > $2 = $6.
                                  >
                                  > All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing.

                                  BINGO! The heart of the matter.
                                  At least once or twice a week, newcomers are advised to read
                                  http://homedistiller.org front to back. Have you?

                                  > The recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.

                                  Scaling usually means "up", not down to a fraction.

                                  > I dont care about the alcohol yet, I am interested in getting the
                                  > first stage right, with a smaller size I can afford to ditch it. The
                                  > exact ingrediants for the recipe are not advailable here and its the
                                  > only recipe I have found for wheat vodka. Although a recipe from
                                  > wheat grain to vodka would be ideal. So I doing trial and error to
                                  > see what works.

                                  You seem to throwing a bunch of things in a bucket and hoping
                                  vodka will pour out. There are a lot of steps in between that you
                                  can observe and test for. If you don't understand what is going on,
                                  you might get a valid result by pure chance 1 in 20 times.

                                  >
                                  > Have you actually ever made wheat vodka?

                                  I'll bet Harry has made more things than you can dream up.

                                  Also, there's reasons why fine vodkas and such are hard to make, it takes
                                  good equipment, good ingredients and good technique.

                                  --
                                  Brendan Keith
                                  bkeith@...




                                  New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                  FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org




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                                • Roderick Holmes
                                  Jeez guys, I make killer vodka from sugar and turbo yeasts. Age on oak and then charcoal filter. It has got to be cheaper than biscuits! I get 50 lbs of sugar
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 15, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jeez guys,

                                    I make killer vodka from sugar and turbo yeasts. Age on oak and then charcoal filter. It has got to be cheaper than biscuits!

                                    I get 50 lbs of sugar for $15 US. Turbo yeast for $4. Ends up costing me about $1 for a liter of vodka.

                                    Someday I hope to try grains but am still mastering sugar and mollasses based worts.

                                    Oh, PS. I am a baker as a hobby and salt is death to yeast if you use too much. Same reason why you gargle with it when you have a sore throat, it kills a lot of bacteria.

                                    Roderick

                                    sonum norbu <blanik@...> wrote:
                                    Well said!!!

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Brendan Keith"
                                    To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat vodka disaster
                                    Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:26:06 -0500

                                    >
                                    > Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as
                                    > it works and is resonable priced. Biscuits are cheaper than the
                                    > loose wheat flakes.

                                    Then use sugar. You obviously do care, since you keep choosing something
                                    sounds to you like it should work, but you keep making poor choices.
                                    You're basing your choices on a few cents difference between a box of
                                    biscuits vs a box of cereal?
                                    If you want to be authentic, be authentic.

                                    >
                                    > I am neither a baker or a housewife and its the first time I have
                                    > heard that salt retards yeast. Since I used the same brand of wheat
                                    > biscuits and the yeast worked on the first attempt, I doubt the
                                    > trace amounts of salt are the problem.

                                    A very tiny bit of research would have told you that. It wouldn't be
                                    a bad idea to investigate all of the ingredients that you are dumping
                                    in, if you don't know what their consequences will be.

                                    >
                                    > But the question is why are you yelling? It's like your emotionally
                                    > attached to the yeast or something. If your going to get that upset
                                    > maybe you should just ignore my posts.

                                    It's hard to ignore because you keep making such huge blunders that
                                    could easily be avoided.

                                    >
                                    > Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                                    > So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                                    > of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                                    > $2 = $6.
                                    >
                                    > All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing.

                                    BINGO! The heart of the matter.
                                    At least once or twice a week, newcomers are advised to read
                                    http://homedistiller.org front to back. Have you?

                                    > The recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.

                                    Scaling usually means "up", not down to a fraction.

                                    > I dont care about the alcohol yet, I am interested in getting the
                                    > first stage right, with a smaller size I can afford to ditch it. The
                                    > exact ingrediants for the recipe are not advailable here and its the
                                    > only recipe I have found for wheat vodka. Although a recipe from
                                    > wheat grain to vodka would be ideal. So I doing trial and error to
                                    > see what works.

                                    You seem to throwing a bunch of things in a bucket and hoping
                                    vodka will pour out. There are a lot of steps in between that you
                                    can observe and test for. If you don't understand what is going on,
                                    you might get a valid result by pure chance 1 in 20 times.

                                    >
                                    > Have you actually ever made wheat vodka?

                                    I'll bet Harry has made more things than you can dream up.

                                    Also, there's reasons why fine vodkas and such are hard to make, it takes
                                    good equipment, good ingredients and good technique.

                                    --
                                    Brendan Keith
                                    bkeith@...




                                    New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                    FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org




                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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                                    * Visit your group "new_distillers" on the web.

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                                    new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------



                                    "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings". (Shakyamuni Buddha)

                                    SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
                                    http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/cloudbase/
                                    IRC server tessnet.cx

                                    --
                                    _______________________________________________
                                    Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
                                    Download Opera 8 at http://www.opera.com

                                    Powered by Outblaze


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                    FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org





                                    SPONSORED LINKS
                                    Corporate culture Distillers Business culture of china Organizational culture Culture change Cell culture

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • sonum norbu
                                    Me Too. I lerv Activated carbon, it s great stuff. Thank you Harry for putting me onto using it. blanikdog ... From: Roderick Holmes To:
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 15, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Me Too. I lerv Activated carbon, it's great stuff. Thank you Harry for
                                      putting me onto using it. blanikdog

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Roderick Holmes"
                                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat vodka disaster
                                      Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:42:42 -0800 (PST)

                                      Jeez guys,

                                      I make killer vodka from sugar and turbo yeasts. Age on oak and then
                                      charcoal filter. It has got to be cheaper than biscuits!

                                      I get 50 lbs of sugar for $15 US. Turbo yeast for $4. Ends up costing me
                                      about $1 for a liter of vodka.

                                      Someday I hope to try grains but am still mastering sugar and mollasses
                                      based worts.

                                      Oh, PS. I am a baker as a hobby and salt is death to yeast if you use too
                                      much. Same reason why you gargle with it when you have a sore throat, it
                                      kills a lot of bacteria.

                                      Roderick

                                      sonum norbu <blanik@...> wrote:
                                      Well said!!!

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Brendan Keith"
                                      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat vodka disaster
                                      Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:26:06 -0500

                                      >
                                      > Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as
                                      > it works and is resonable priced. Biscuits are cheaper than the
                                      > loose wheat flakes.

                                      Then use sugar. You obviously do care, since you keep choosing something
                                      sounds to you like it should work, but you keep making poor choices.
                                      You're basing your choices on a few cents difference between a box of
                                      biscuits vs a box of cereal?
                                      If you want to be authentic, be authentic.

                                      >
                                      > I am neither a baker or a housewife and its the first time I have
                                      > heard that salt retards yeast. Since I used the same brand of wheat
                                      > biscuits and the yeast worked on the first attempt, I doubt the
                                      > trace amounts of salt are the problem.

                                      A very tiny bit of research would have told you that. It wouldn't be
                                      a bad idea to investigate all of the ingredients that you are dumping
                                      in, if you don't know what their consequences will be.

                                      >
                                      > But the question is why are you yelling? It's like your emotionally
                                      > attached to the yeast or something. If your going to get that upset
                                      > maybe you should just ignore my posts.

                                      It's hard to ignore because you keep making such huge blunders that
                                      could easily be avoided.

                                      >
                                      > Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                                      > So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                                      > of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                                      > $2 = $6.
                                      >
                                      > All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing.

                                      BINGO! The heart of the matter.
                                      At least once or twice a week, newcomers are advised to read
                                      http://homedistiller.org front to back. Have you?

                                      > The recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.

                                      Scaling usually means "up", not down to a fraction.

                                      > I dont care about the alcohol yet, I am interested in getting the
                                      > first stage right, with a smaller size I can afford to ditch it. The
                                      > exact ingrediants for the recipe are not advailable here and its the
                                      > only recipe I have found for wheat vodka. Although a recipe from
                                      > wheat grain to vodka would be ideal. So I doing trial and error to
                                      > see what works.

                                      You seem to throwing a bunch of things in a bucket and hoping
                                      vodka will pour out. There are a lot of steps in between that you
                                      can observe and test for. If you don't understand what is going on,
                                      you might get a valid result by pure chance 1 in 20 times.

                                      >
                                      > Have you actually ever made wheat vodka?

                                      I'll bet Harry has made more things than you can dream up.

                                      Also, there's reasons why fine vodkas and such are hard to make, it takes
                                      good equipment, good ingredients and good technique.

                                      --
                                      Brendan Keith
                                      bkeith@...




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                                    • waljaco
                                      Harry recommends glucose as it is closer to grain mashes. 17g/l sucrose produces 1%abv 17.9g/l glucose produces 1%abv wal ... then charcoal filter. It has got
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Nov 16, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Harry recommends glucose as it is closer to grain mashes.

                                        17g/l sucrose produces 1%abv
                                        17.9g/l glucose produces 1%abv
                                        wal

                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Roderick Holmes
                                        <pure95percent@y...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Jeez guys,
                                        >
                                        > I make killer vodka from sugar and turbo yeasts. Age on oak and
                                        then charcoal filter. It has got to be cheaper than biscuits!
                                        >
                                        > I get 50 lbs of sugar for $15 US. Turbo yeast for $4. Ends up
                                        costing me about $1 for a liter of vodka.
                                        >
                                        > Someday I hope to try grains but am still mastering sugar and
                                        mollasses based worts.
                                        >
                                        > Oh, PS. I am a baker as a hobby and salt is death to yeast if you
                                        use too much. Same reason why you gargle with it when you have a sore
                                        throat, it kills a lot of bacteria.
                                        >
                                        > Roderick
                                        >
                                        > sonum norbu <blanik@o...> wrote:
                                        > Well said!!!
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Brendan Keith"
                                        > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Wheat vodka disaster
                                        > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:26:06 -0500
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Insist, who said I insist on them. I dont care what I use as long as
                                        > > it works and is resonable priced. Biscuits are cheaper than the
                                        > > loose wheat flakes.
                                        >
                                        > Then use sugar. You obviously do care, since you keep choosing
                                        something
                                        > sounds to you like it should work, but you keep making poor choices.
                                        > You're basing your choices on a few cents difference between a box of
                                        > biscuits vs a box of cereal?
                                        > If you want to be authentic, be authentic.
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > I am neither a baker or a housewife and its the first time I have
                                        > > heard that salt retards yeast. Since I used the same brand of wheat
                                        > > biscuits and the yeast worked on the first attempt, I doubt the
                                        > > trace amounts of salt are the problem.
                                        >
                                        > A very tiny bit of research would have told you that. It wouldn't be
                                        > a bad idea to investigate all of the ingredients that you are dumping
                                        > in, if you don't know what their consequences will be.
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > But the question is why are you yelling? It's like your emotionally
                                        > > attached to the yeast or something. If your going to get that upset
                                        > > maybe you should just ignore my posts.
                                        >
                                        > It's hard to ignore because you keep making such huge blunders that
                                        > could easily be avoided.
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Well the ingredients for a full test batch cost $20 au
                                        > > So 3 x $20 = $60 The ingredients for a 1/10th batch cost $2 if I had
                                        > > of used smaller batches from the start the cost would have been 3 x
                                        > > $2 = $6.
                                        > >
                                        > > All the batches failed because I don't know what I am doing.
                                        >
                                        > BINGO! The heart of the matter.
                                        > At least once or twice a week, newcomers are advised to read
                                        > http://homedistiller.org front to back. Have you?
                                        >
                                        > > The recipe says it scales well and have no reason to doubt it.
                                        >
                                        > Scaling usually means "up", not down to a fraction.
                                        >
                                        > > I dont care about the alcohol yet, I am interested in getting the
                                        > > first stage right, with a smaller size I can afford to ditch it. The
                                        > > exact ingrediants for the recipe are not advailable here and its the
                                        > > only recipe I have found for wheat vodka. Although a recipe from
                                        > > wheat grain to vodka would be ideal. So I doing trial and error to
                                        > > see what works.
                                        >
                                        > You seem to throwing a bunch of things in a bucket and hoping
                                        > vodka will pour out. There are a lot of steps in between that you
                                        > can observe and test for. If you don't understand what is going on,
                                        > you might get a valid result by pure chance 1 in 20 times.
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Have you actually ever made wheat vodka?
                                        >
                                        > I'll bet Harry has made more things than you can dream up.
                                        >
                                        > Also, there's reasons why fine vodkas and such are hard to make, it
                                        takes
                                        > good equipment, good ingredients and good technique.
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Brendan Keith
                                        > bkeith@s...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
                                        > FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                        >
                                        > * Visit your group "new_distillers" on the web.
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                                        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                        >
                                        > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                        Service.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "Most of the troubles of the world are caused by human beings".
                                        (Shakyamuni Buddha)
                                        >
                                        > SOARING, SAILING AND SKYDIVING web page
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                                        >
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                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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