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Re: Quick question on VM (was)New still, first run

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  • Lindsay Williams
    It doesn t escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as liquid to the column. Can t let any escape!! Cheers, Lindsay.
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 1, 2005
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      It doesn't escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as
      liquid to the column. Can't let any escape!!

      Cheers,
      Lindsay.

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
      <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Guys,
      > On VM's that have a large valve to control vapor entering the final
      > condensor, is there anoghther way out for excess vapor to escape the
      > column (i.e. out the top, through a reflux cond.), just curious?
      > Morgan
      >
      >
      > >
      > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Errrm, surely, Mark's system will remain a CM (cooling management)
      > > > still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve.
      > Sure,
      > > > varying the water in a CM system controls the vapour flow but only
      > > > indirectly.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > > Lindsay
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Strictly speak, you're probably right Lindsay. I have never
      > > distinguished between VM & CM. To me, there's only ONE thing to
      > > manage in a still, and that is the ethanol. You can do that either
      > in
      > > its vapour form, or its liquid form. How you achieve that
      > management
      > > is up to you, either by valves, coolant control, heat control, or a
      > > combination of some or all of these. Others will no doubt
      > disagree,
      > > but it's just my opinion, and it works for me. :-)
      > >
      > >
      > > Slainte!
      > > regards Harry
      > >
      >
    • morganfield1
      Thanks, Lindsay, I guess I didn t pose my question correctly. I realize none escapes , but you did answere my question. There is a reflux condenser at the
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 2, 2005
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        Thanks, Lindsay, I guess I didn't pose my question correctly. I realize
        none "escapes", but you did answere my question. There is a reflux
        condenser at the top, then, above the take-off, and I would assume that
        condenser is open to air. My original concern was if the top of the
        column were closed of (as in a pot still), and the valve were left
        closed inadvertantly during boil up, well, you know.
        Ok, now I'm wondering why any of the vapor goes through the lyne arm
        (take-off) and not all of it, being hot, doesn't rise up into the
        reflux cond. and consequently return down the column as liquid. I will
        have to consult the files. Thank you, again.
        Tip one, Morgan


        > It doesn't escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as
        > liquid to the column. Can't let any escape!!
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Lindsay.
        >
        >
      • Lindsay Williams
        You re right, the column is open at the top. The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side exit and flow down. This effect is why a VM
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 2, 2005
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          You're right, the column is open at the top.

          The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side exit
          and flow down. This effect is why a VM system's output falls off as
          the percentage weakens. At around 34% (from memory) the vapour is the
          same density as air so doesn't tend to flow down the exit. Auto tails
          cutoff! (in theory). The proportion that flows out the exit is in
          relation to the relative sizes of the vertical and horizontal
          openings. The openings on my still are approx the same size (20mm) so
          reflux can only be controlled between 100-50%. At the 50% state, half
          goes up and half goes to the product condenser. With valve closed,
          100% goes up and gets refluxed.

          Cheers,
          Lindsay.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
          <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks, Lindsay, I guess I didn't pose my question correctly. I realize
          > none "escapes", but you did answere my question. There is a reflux
          > condenser at the top, then, above the take-off, and I would assume that
          > condenser is open to air. My original concern was if the top of the
          > column were closed of (as in a pot still), and the valve were left
          > closed inadvertantly during boil up, well, you know.
          > Ok, now I'm wondering why any of the vapor goes through the lyne arm
          > (take-off) and not all of it, being hot, doesn't rise up into the
          > reflux cond. and consequently return down the column as liquid. I will
          > have to consult the files. Thank you, again.
          > Tip one, Morgan
          >
          >
          > > It doesn't escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as
          > > liquid to the column. Can't let any escape!!
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > Lindsay.
          > >
          > >
          >
        • morganfield1
          Thanks again, Lindsay, Very interesting, right now I have a column pot still. I m thinking of converting it to a CM or RM, If these become to touchy to
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 3, 2005
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            Thanks again, Lindsay,
            Very interesting, right now I have a column pot still. I'm thinking
            of converting it to a CM or RM, If these become to touchy to control,
            I may go VM.
            Tip one, Morgan

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x...>
            wrote:
            >
            > You're right, the column is open at the top.
            >
            > The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side exit
            > and flow down. This effect is why a VM system's output falls off as
            > the percentage weakens. At around 34% (from memory) the vapour is
            the
            > same density as air so doesn't tend to flow down the exit. Auto
            tails
            > cutoff! (in theory). The proportion that flows out the exit is in
            > relation to the relative sizes of the vertical and horizontal
            > openings. The openings on my still are approx the same size (20mm)
            so
            > reflux can only be controlled between 100-50%. At the 50% state,
            half
            > goes up and half goes to the product condenser. With valve closed,
            > 100% goes up and gets refluxed.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Lindsay.
            >
            >
          • abbababbaccc
            RM is best used for neutral alcohol. If that s what you are after I recommend you go to ARC straight away. Similar principle as with RM but you don t need to
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 5, 2005
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              RM is best used for neutral alcohol. If that's what you are after I
              recommend you go to ARC straight away. Similar principle as with RM
              but you don't need to fiddle with valves as it's fully automatic.

              - Riku


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
              <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks again, Lindsay,
              > Very interesting, right now I have a column pot still. I'm thinking
              > of converting it to a CM or RM, If these become to touchy to
              control,
              > I may go VM.
              > Tip one, Morgan
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > You're right, the column is open at the top.
              > >
              > > The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side
              exit
              > > and flow down. This effect is why a VM system's output falls off
              as
              > > the percentage weakens. At around 34% (from memory) the vapour is
              > the
              > > same density as air so doesn't tend to flow down the exit. Auto
              > tails
              > > cutoff! (in theory). The proportion that flows out the exit is in
              > > relation to the relative sizes of the vertical and horizontal
              > > openings. The openings on my still are approx the same size
              (20mm)
              > so
              > > reflux can only be controlled between 100-50%. At the 50% state,
              > half
              > > goes up and half goes to the product condenser. With valve closed,
              > > 100% goes up and gets refluxed.
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > > Lindsay.
              > >
              > >
              >
            • morganfield1
              Actually, I make whiskeys, rum, and other flavored drinks. What I d like to achieve is about a solid 80% on the first run, and save me the time waiting for a
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 5, 2005
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                Actually, I make whiskeys, rum, and other flavored drinks. What I'd
                like to achieve is about a solid 80% on the first run, and save me the
                time waiting for a second boil up. I found myself a nice piece of 1/8th
                inch (about 4mm) copper tubing and wound up a nice little (about 4 in.)
                reflux coil to hang in my column, thru the top cap. I don't plan to
                have the top open, as I don't believe the coil is big enough to totally
                condense the vapors. The column is open to air thru the lyne arm. Any
                recomendations would be aprieciated. Thanks,
                Tip one, Morgan

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
                >
                > RM is best used for neutral alcohol. If that's what you are after I
                > recommend you go to ARC straight away. Similar principle as with RM
                > but you don't need to fiddle with valves as it's fully automatic.
                >
                > - Riku
                >
                >
                >
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