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Re: New still, first run

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  • Mark
    Hi Guys, Thanks for the replies. Ive removed the lower condenser pipe from the column and arranged the cooling so it goes throught the top of the column to the
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 30, 2005
      Hi Guys,

      Thanks for the replies.

      Ive removed the lower condenser pipe from the column and arranged
      the cooling so it goes throught the top of the column to the base of
      the condenser, up the condenser and out, the packing is up to the
      level of the top condenser tube.

      I now have about 110mm between the condenser pipe going through the
      column and the vapor outlet going through the condenser, is this
      enough space for a reflux condenser and is it ok to be below the
      vapor outlet? I have the room to extend the column 300mm or more
      above the vapor tube if this would be better, what do you think?

      As for controlling the heat, the urn Ive got has a thermostat
      control knob but its a 'switch on, switch off' type arrangement
      rather than a constant heat and Im not sure how good this is.

      Now to the drunkenness :)
      On friday night my good buddy and myself sat down and cracked a
      750ml bottle of my moonshine, 80%. We tried it with coke and
      orange juice using about 30-40ml per glass giving us the equivalent
      of double or triple shots. It was full on, we havent been that pissed
      since college, and supprisingly clear, giggly and energetic. We
      finished the 750ml bottle that night and were still shitfaced at
      2pm saturday. Normally Id show some constraint but I wanted to
      see how devestation this can be, and I wasnt disapointed. I think
      there is 4-6 drunken episodes inside one of those bottles and I
      still have about 10 left, yeah baby YEAH!! :). I did feel quite
      shitty after due to the alchohol poisoning and dehydration but
      none of the nasty gritty sort of feeling that would come from
      that level of drunkenness precured from commecial sources.

      Given the ease of making the still, the obscene quantities of high
      quality alcohol and the short time to make Im wondering why I
      didnt do all this sooner, like 10 or 15 years ago. I dont anticipate
      ever buying booze again, and as much as I love my wild turkey and
      coke, at $16 a four pack at 8% Id be a fool not to spend that money
      on yeast and sugar. But I now also see why its illegal, like I said
      the quantities are obscene.

      Kind Regards
      Mark
    • Dean Thomas
      Hi Mark, Home made is the best isn t it :) Just by removing that bottom tube and adding extra packing you should get an improvement. You ll need the best part
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 30, 2005
        Hi Mark,

        Home made is the best isn't it :) Just by removing that bottom tube and
        adding extra packing you should get an improvement. You'll need the best
        part of 300mm for a coiled reflux condenser.
        An on off thermostat isn't good enough for this application you will get
        surge boiling.
        In my opinion you would be best to replace the thermostat with a variac
        or sutronics controller and then see how you go with the current set up,
        it will come in handy any way and with careful control you should crack
        the nineties.
        A reflux coil gives you the ability to stabilise the column before
        collecting and increases the reflux during a run for that extra few
        percent. It all depends on how high you wish to go and more to the point
        how long your willing to wait for a run to finish squeezing out that
        extra bit of alcohol.

        May the force be with you,
        Dean.



        Mark wrote:

        >Hi Guys,
        >
        >Thanks for the replies.
        >
        >Ive removed the lower condenser pipe from the column and arranged
        >the cooling so it goes throught the top of the column to the base of
        >the condenser, up the condenser and out, the packing is up to the
        >level of the top condenser tube.
        >
        >I now have about 110mm between the condenser pipe going through the
        >column and the vapor outlet going through the condenser, is this
        >enough space for a reflux condenser and is it ok to be below the
        >vapor outlet? I have the room to extend the column 300mm or more
        >above the vapor tube if this would be better, what do you think?
        >
        >As for controlling the heat, the urn Ive got has a thermostat
        >control knob but its a 'switch on, switch off' type arrangement
        >rather than a constant heat and Im not sure how good this is.
        >
        >Now to the drunkenness :)
        >On friday night my good buddy and myself sat down and cracked a
        >750ml bottle of my moonshine, 80%. We tried it with coke and
        >orange juice using about 30-40ml per glass giving us the equivalent
        >of double or triple shots. It was full on, we havent been that pissed
        >since college, and supprisingly clear, giggly and energetic. We
        >finished the 750ml bottle that night and were still shitfaced at
        >2pm saturday. Normally Id show some constraint but I wanted to
        >see how devestation this can be, and I wasnt disapointed. I think
        >there is 4-6 drunken episodes inside one of those bottles and I
        >still have about 10 left, yeah baby YEAH!! :). I did feel quite
        >shitty after due to the alchohol poisoning and dehydration but
        >none of the nasty gritty sort of feeling that would come from
        >that level of drunkenness precured from commecial sources.
        >
        >Given the ease of making the still, the obscene quantities of high
        >quality alcohol and the short time to make Im wondering why I
        >didnt do all this sooner, like 10 or 15 years ago. I dont anticipate
        >ever buying booze again, and as much as I love my wild turkey and
        >coke, at $16 a four pack at 8% Id be a fool not to spend that money
        >on yeast and sugar. But I now also see why its illegal, like I said
        >the quantities are obscene.
        >
        >Kind Regards
        >Mark
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Harry
        Replies interspersed... ... of ... .........You can put a few coils there, either internal OR external, or BOTH (tricky to fabricate, but do-able). This will
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 30, 2005
          Replies interspersed...


          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"
          <alexandrianwitch@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Guys,
          >
          > Thanks for the replies.
          >
          > Ive removed the lower condenser pipe from the column and arranged
          > the cooling so it goes throught the top of the column to the base
          of
          > the condenser, up the condenser and out, the packing is up to the
          > level of the top condenser tube.
          >
          > I now have about 110mm between the condenser pipe going through the
          > column and the vapor outlet going through the condenser, is this
          > enough space for a reflux condenser and is it ok to be below the
          > vapor outlet? I have the room to extend the column 300mm or more
          > above the vapor tube if this would be better, what do you think?



          .........You can put a few coils there, either internal OR external,
          or BOTH (tricky to fabricate, but do-able). This will allow you to
          manage the amount of vapour getting through to the takeoff point,
          and return reflux to the column packing. What you will have is a VM
          (Vapour Management) still. They work fine once you get the hang of
          adjusting the water flow. Putting a condenser ABOVE the takeoff
          point without any other mods will achieve the same thing, i.e. a VM
          type still. In both cases there is always the possibility of the
          reflux condensate 'channelling' (running down the column walls)
          instead of into the packing. Some say this reduces efficiency and
          the purpose of refluxing. Others say it's not that critical as the
          descending liquid meets rising vapours that are hotter and gets
          stripped (revapourization) of the ethanol. Whatever, the only way
          the ethanol can leave the system is UP.

          Now if you want to make a true LM still (Liquid Management), then
          put a larger coil on top of the column. Then put 2 inclined plates
          in the column in your 110mm space. Put a takeoff tube and needle
          valve regulator into the bottom plate. Do away altogether with the
          large liebig product condenser. The reflux condensate will run off
          the top plate into the pocket formed by the bottom plate. This will
          overflow back to the center of the packing (put a spill lip in the
          top edge of the plate to achieve this). Everything is regulated by
          the needle valve. Take more product, you get less reflux, and vise-
          versa. Close the valve you get total reflux, handy for
          equilibrating the column at startup. Look at Bokakob's (Alex) mini-
          still in the files section.




          >
          > As for controlling the heat, the urn Ive got has a thermostat
          > control knob but its a 'switch on, switch off' type arrangement
          > rather than a constant heat and Im not sure how good this is.




          ........NOT good. You'll get surge boiling which destroys the
          reflux/distilling action. Buy or build a zero-switching
          controller. Sutronics, or Benja's Helios SSR (in files), Burst
          Fire Schematic_2.doc (in Distillers Group files).



          >
          > Now to the drunkenness :)
          > On friday night my good buddy and myself sat down and cracked a
          > 750ml bottle of my moonshine, 80%.


          ..........Bloody Hell!! That strength will embalm ya!



          We tried it with coke and
          > orange juice using about 30-40ml per glass giving us the equivalent
          > of double or triple shots. It was full on, we havent been that
          pissed
          > since college, and supprisingly clear, giggly and energetic. We
          > finished the 750ml bottle that night and were still shitfaced at
          > 2pm saturday. Normally Id show some constraint but I wanted to
          > see how devestation this can be, and I wasnt disapointed. I think
          > there is 4-6 drunken episodes inside one of those bottles and I
          > still have about 10 left, yeah baby YEAH!! :). I did feel quite
          > shitty after due to the alchohol poisoning and dehydration but
          > none of the nasty gritty sort of feeling that would come from
          > that level of drunkenness precured from commecial sources.
          >
          > Given the ease of making the still, the obscene quantities of high
          > quality alcohol and the short time to make Im wondering why I
          > didnt do all this sooner, like 10 or 15 years ago.


          ................Well if you HAD done it then and been drinking it at
          80%, I'm betting we wouldn't be reading this post! ;-)
          Consider cutting your bottling strength to a sane level like 40 to
          46% abv. Good enough for the commercial boys & less chance of
          killing yourself (or someone else), who may be used to 4 or 5
          drinks/hr. At 80%, it'd be too easy to OD. Remember, it only take
          ONE person to die and the authorities put on the jackboots. As a
          hobby distiller, you have a moral obligation to do NOTHING that will
          set the hobby scene back to the bad old days. Au contrère, you
          should be doing EVERYTHING to show the legislators that we are a
          responsible bunch who deserve to be LEGIT.



          I dont anticipate
          > ever buying booze again, and as much as I love my wild turkey and
          > coke, at $16 a four pack at 8% Id be a fool not to spend that money
          > on yeast and sugar. But I now also see why its illegal, like I said
          > the quantities are obscene.
          >
          > Kind Regards
          > Mark
          >

          ................With time & practice, you could make your own wild
          turkey. Even if the cost eventually turns out to be similar,
          there's the satisfaction of knowing you DID IT! That's the ultimate
          goal of every hobby distiller, even if they don't yet realise it.
          ;-)


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
        • Lindsay Williams
          Errrm, surely, Mark s system will remain a CM (cooling management) still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve. Sure, varying the water in a
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 30, 2005
            Errrm, surely, Mark's system will remain a CM (cooling management)
            still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve. Sure,
            varying the water in a CM system controls the vapour flow but only
            indirectly.

            Cheers,
            Lindsay

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Replies interspersed...
            >
            >
            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"
            > <alexandrianwitch@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Guys,
            > >
            > > Thanks for the replies.
            > >
            > > Ive removed the lower condenser pipe from the column and arranged
            > > the cooling so it goes throught the top of the column to the base
            > of
            > > the condenser, up the condenser and out, the packing is up to the
            > > level of the top condenser tube.
            > >
            > > I now have about 110mm between the condenser pipe going through the
            > > column and the vapor outlet going through the condenser, is this
            > > enough space for a reflux condenser and is it ok to be below the
            > > vapor outlet? I have the room to extend the column 300mm or more
            > > above the vapor tube if this would be better, what do you think?
            >
            >
            >
            > .........You can put a few coils there, either internal OR external,
            > or BOTH (tricky to fabricate, but do-able). This will allow you to
            > manage the amount of vapour getting through to the takeoff point,
            > and return reflux to the column packing. What you will have is a VM
            > (Vapour Management) still. They work fine once you get the hang of
            > adjusting the water flow. Putting a condenser ABOVE the takeoff
            > point without any other mods will achieve the same thing, i.e. a VM
            > type still. In both cases there is always the possibility of the
            > reflux condensate 'channelling' (running down the column walls)
            > instead of into the packing. Some say this reduces efficiency and
            > the purpose of refluxing. Others say it's not that critical as the
            > descending liquid meets rising vapours that are hotter and gets
            > stripped (revapourization) of the ethanol. Whatever, the only way
            > the ethanol can leave the system is UP.
            >
            > Now if you want to make a true LM still (Liquid Management), then
            > put a larger coil on top of the column. Then put 2 inclined plates
            > in the column in your 110mm space. Put a takeoff tube and needle
            > valve regulator into the bottom plate. Do away altogether with the
            > large liebig product condenser. The reflux condensate will run off
            > the top plate into the pocket formed by the bottom plate. This will
            > overflow back to the center of the packing (put a spill lip in the
            > top edge of the plate to achieve this). Everything is regulated by
            > the needle valve. Take more product, you get less reflux, and vise-
            > versa. Close the valve you get total reflux, handy for
            > equilibrating the column at startup. Look at Bokakob's (Alex) mini-
            > still in the files section.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > > As for controlling the heat, the urn Ive got has a thermostat
            > > control knob but its a 'switch on, switch off' type arrangement
            > > rather than a constant heat and Im not sure how good this is.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ........NOT good. You'll get surge boiling which destroys the
            > reflux/distilling action. Buy or build a zero-switching
            > controller. Sutronics, or Benja's Helios SSR (in files), Burst
            > Fire Schematic_2.doc (in Distillers Group files).
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > > Now to the drunkenness :)
            > > On friday night my good buddy and myself sat down and cracked a
            > > 750ml bottle of my moonshine, 80%.
            >
            >
            > ..........Bloody Hell!! That strength will embalm ya!
            >
            >
            >
            > We tried it with coke and
            > > orange juice using about 30-40ml per glass giving us the equivalent
            > > of double or triple shots. It was full on, we havent been that
            > pissed
            > > since college, and supprisingly clear, giggly and energetic. We
            > > finished the 750ml bottle that night and were still shitfaced at
            > > 2pm saturday. Normally Id show some constraint but I wanted to
            > > see how devestation this can be, and I wasnt disapointed. I think
            > > there is 4-6 drunken episodes inside one of those bottles and I
            > > still have about 10 left, yeah baby YEAH!! :). I did feel quite
            > > shitty after due to the alchohol poisoning and dehydration but
            > > none of the nasty gritty sort of feeling that would come from
            > > that level of drunkenness precured from commecial sources.
            > >
            > > Given the ease of making the still, the obscene quantities of high
            > > quality alcohol and the short time to make Im wondering why I
            > > didnt do all this sooner, like 10 or 15 years ago.
            >
            >
            > ................Well if you HAD done it then and been drinking it at
            > 80%, I'm betting we wouldn't be reading this post! ;-)
            > Consider cutting your bottling strength to a sane level like 40 to
            > 46% abv. Good enough for the commercial boys & less chance of
            > killing yourself (or someone else), who may be used to 4 or 5
            > drinks/hr. At 80%, it'd be too easy to OD. Remember, it only take
            > ONE person to die and the authorities put on the jackboots. As a
            > hobby distiller, you have a moral obligation to do NOTHING that will
            > set the hobby scene back to the bad old days. Au contrère, you
            > should be doing EVERYTHING to show the legislators that we are a
            > responsible bunch who deserve to be LEGIT.
            >
            >
            >
            > I dont anticipate
            > > ever buying booze again, and as much as I love my wild turkey and
            > > coke, at $16 a four pack at 8% Id be a fool not to spend that money
            > > on yeast and sugar. But I now also see why its illegal, like I said
            > > the quantities are obscene.
            > >
            > > Kind Regards
            > > Mark
            > >
            >
            > ................With time & practice, you could make your own wild
            > turkey. Even if the cost eventually turns out to be similar,
            > there's the satisfaction of knowing you DID IT! That's the ultimate
            > goal of every hobby distiller, even if they don't yet realise it.
            > ;-)
            >
            >
            > Slainte!
            > regards Harry
            >
          • Harry
            ... Strictly speak, you re probably right Lindsay. I have never distinguished between VM & CM. To me, there s only ONE thing to manage in a still, and that
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 31, 2005
              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Errrm, surely, Mark's system will remain a CM (cooling management)
              > still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve. Sure,
              > varying the water in a CM system controls the vapour flow but only
              > indirectly.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Lindsay



              Strictly speak, you're probably right Lindsay. I have never
              distinguished between VM & CM. To me, there's only ONE thing to
              manage in a still, and that is the ethanol. You can do that either in
              its vapour form, or its liquid form. How you achieve that management
              is up to you, either by valves, coolant control, heat control, or a
              combination of some or all of these. Others will no doubt disagree,
              but it's just my opinion, and it works for me. :-)


              Slainte!
              regards Harry
            • Lindsay Williams
              You have a point in reducing the management systems to two. I guess your defns are another level of abstraction deeper than the usual three. Cheers, Lindsay.
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 31, 2005
                You have a point in reducing the management systems to two. I guess
                your defns are another level of abstraction deeper than the usual three.

                Cheers,
                Lindsay.


                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Errrm, surely, Mark's system will remain a CM (cooling management)
                > > still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve. Sure,
                > > varying the water in a CM system controls the vapour flow but only
                > > indirectly.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > > Lindsay
                >
                >
                >
                > Strictly speak, you're probably right Lindsay. I have never
                > distinguished between VM & CM. To me, there's only ONE thing to
                > manage in a still, and that is the ethanol. You can do that either in
                > its vapour form, or its liquid form. How you achieve that management
                > is up to you, either by valves, coolant control, heat control, or a
                > combination of some or all of these. Others will no doubt disagree,
                > but it's just my opinion, and it works for me. :-)
                >
                >
                > Slainte!
                > regards Harry
                >
              • Harry
                ... three. ... Heh, comes from years of designing relational databases. You know, 1 many, many many, 1 1 (unique). The less entities you have, the
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 31, 2005
                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > You have a point in reducing the management systems to two. I guess
                  > your defns are another level of abstraction deeper than the usual
                  three.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Lindsay.



                  Heh, comes from years of designing relational databases.
                  You know, 1 <-> many, many <-> many, 1 <-> 1 (unique). The less
                  entities you have, the easier it is to create the tables and joins.


                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • _{*L*}_
                  Congratulations on joining the distillers guild! This is very true. I believe that home distillation process produces far cleaner alcohol compared to most of
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 31, 2005
                    Congratulations on joining the distillers guild! This is very true. I believe that home distillation process produces far cleaner alcohol compared to most of affordable commercial products. The proof is obvious the next morning when you don’t have nagging vomiting feeling and headaches. The only immediate side effect is slight dehydration and the urge to drink some liquids.

                    Not counting liver damage this is the lesser evil…

                    By the way 80% abv is far from a "clean and pure" product. You should strive for 95% refluxed "double distillation" process. Then you will see the difference.

                    Mark <alexandrianwitch@...>




                    _{*L*}_
                    http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob


























                    ---------------------------------
                    Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • morganfield1
                    Hi Guys, On VM s that have a large valve to control vapor entering the final condensor, is there anoghther way out for excess vapor to escape the column (i.e.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 1 5:18 PM
                      Hi Guys,
                      On VM's that have a large valve to control vapor entering the final
                      condensor, is there anoghther way out for excess vapor to escape the
                      column (i.e. out the top, through a reflux cond.), just curious?
                      Morgan


                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Errrm, surely, Mark's system will remain a CM (cooling management)
                      > > still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve.
                      Sure,
                      > > varying the water in a CM system controls the vapour flow but only
                      > > indirectly.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > > Lindsay
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Strictly speak, you're probably right Lindsay. I have never
                      > distinguished between VM & CM. To me, there's only ONE thing to
                      > manage in a still, and that is the ethanol. You can do that either
                      in
                      > its vapour form, or its liquid form. How you achieve that
                      management
                      > is up to you, either by valves, coolant control, heat control, or a
                      > combination of some or all of these. Others will no doubt
                      disagree,
                      > but it's just my opinion, and it works for me. :-)
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry
                      >
                    • Lindsay Williams
                      It doesn t escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as liquid to the column. Can t let any escape!! Cheers, Lindsay.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 1 8:14 PM
                        It doesn't escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as
                        liquid to the column. Can't let any escape!!

                        Cheers,
                        Lindsay.

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
                        <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Guys,
                        > On VM's that have a large valve to control vapor entering the final
                        > condensor, is there anoghther way out for excess vapor to escape the
                        > column (i.e. out the top, through a reflux cond.), just curious?
                        > Morgan
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Errrm, surely, Mark's system will remain a CM (cooling management)
                        > > > still? A VM system has physical control of vapour via a valve.
                        > Sure,
                        > > > varying the water in a CM system controls the vapour flow but only
                        > > > indirectly.
                        > > >
                        > > > Cheers,
                        > > > Lindsay
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Strictly speak, you're probably right Lindsay. I have never
                        > > distinguished between VM & CM. To me, there's only ONE thing to
                        > > manage in a still, and that is the ethanol. You can do that either
                        > in
                        > > its vapour form, or its liquid form. How you achieve that
                        > management
                        > > is up to you, either by valves, coolant control, heat control, or a
                        > > combination of some or all of these. Others will no doubt
                        > disagree,
                        > > but it's just my opinion, and it works for me. :-)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Slainte!
                        > > regards Harry
                        > >
                        >
                      • morganfield1
                        Thanks, Lindsay, I guess I didn t pose my question correctly. I realize none escapes , but you did answere my question. There is a reflux condenser at the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 2 1:16 PM
                          Thanks, Lindsay, I guess I didn't pose my question correctly. I realize
                          none "escapes", but you did answere my question. There is a reflux
                          condenser at the top, then, above the take-off, and I would assume that
                          condenser is open to air. My original concern was if the top of the
                          column were closed of (as in a pot still), and the valve were left
                          closed inadvertantly during boil up, well, you know.
                          Ok, now I'm wondering why any of the vapor goes through the lyne arm
                          (take-off) and not all of it, being hot, doesn't rise up into the
                          reflux cond. and consequently return down the column as liquid. I will
                          have to consult the files. Thank you, again.
                          Tip one, Morgan


                          > It doesn't escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as
                          > liquid to the column. Can't let any escape!!
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Lindsay.
                          >
                          >
                        • Lindsay Williams
                          You re right, the column is open at the top. The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side exit and flow down. This effect is why a VM
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 2 4:55 PM
                            You're right, the column is open at the top.

                            The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side exit
                            and flow down. This effect is why a VM system's output falls off as
                            the percentage weakens. At around 34% (from memory) the vapour is the
                            same density as air so doesn't tend to flow down the exit. Auto tails
                            cutoff! (in theory). The proportion that flows out the exit is in
                            relation to the relative sizes of the vertical and horizontal
                            openings. The openings on my still are approx the same size (20mm) so
                            reflux can only be controlled between 100-50%. At the 50% state, half
                            goes up and half goes to the product condenser. With valve closed,
                            100% goes up and gets refluxed.

                            Cheers,
                            Lindsay.

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
                            <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks, Lindsay, I guess I didn't pose my question correctly. I realize
                            > none "escapes", but you did answere my question. There is a reflux
                            > condenser at the top, then, above the take-off, and I would assume that
                            > condenser is open to air. My original concern was if the top of the
                            > column were closed of (as in a pot still), and the valve were left
                            > closed inadvertantly during boil up, well, you know.
                            > Ok, now I'm wondering why any of the vapor goes through the lyne arm
                            > (take-off) and not all of it, being hot, doesn't rise up into the
                            > reflux cond. and consequently return down the column as liquid. I will
                            > have to consult the files. Thank you, again.
                            > Tip one, Morgan
                            >
                            >
                            > > It doesn't escape. It goes up to the reflux condenser and returns as
                            > > liquid to the column. Can't let any escape!!
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > > Lindsay.
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • morganfield1
                            Thanks again, Lindsay, Very interesting, right now I have a column pot still. I m thinking of converting it to a CM or RM, If these become to touchy to
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 3 2:52 PM
                              Thanks again, Lindsay,
                              Very interesting, right now I have a column pot still. I'm thinking
                              of converting it to a CM or RM, If these become to touchy to control,
                              I may go VM.
                              Tip one, Morgan

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > You're right, the column is open at the top.
                              >
                              > The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side exit
                              > and flow down. This effect is why a VM system's output falls off as
                              > the percentage weakens. At around 34% (from memory) the vapour is
                              the
                              > same density as air so doesn't tend to flow down the exit. Auto
                              tails
                              > cutoff! (in theory). The proportion that flows out the exit is in
                              > relation to the relative sizes of the vertical and horizontal
                              > openings. The openings on my still are approx the same size (20mm)
                              so
                              > reflux can only be controlled between 100-50%. At the 50% state,
                              half
                              > goes up and half goes to the product condenser. With valve closed,
                              > 100% goes up and gets refluxed.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Lindsay.
                              >
                              >
                            • abbababbaccc
                              RM is best used for neutral alcohol. If that s what you are after I recommend you go to ARC straight away. Similar principle as with RM but you don t need to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 5 12:13 PM
                                RM is best used for neutral alcohol. If that's what you are after I
                                recommend you go to ARC straight away. Similar principle as with RM
                                but you don't need to fiddle with valves as it's fully automatic.

                                - Riku


                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "morganfield1"
                                <morganfield1@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks again, Lindsay,
                                > Very interesting, right now I have a column pot still. I'm thinking
                                > of converting it to a CM or RM, If these become to touchy to
                                control,
                                > I may go VM.
                                > Tip one, Morgan
                                >
                                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > You're right, the column is open at the top.
                                > >
                                > > The vapour is more dense than air so will venture down the side
                                exit
                                > > and flow down. This effect is why a VM system's output falls off
                                as
                                > > the percentage weakens. At around 34% (from memory) the vapour is
                                > the
                                > > same density as air so doesn't tend to flow down the exit. Auto
                                > tails
                                > > cutoff! (in theory). The proportion that flows out the exit is in
                                > > relation to the relative sizes of the vertical and horizontal
                                > > openings. The openings on my still are approx the same size
                                (20mm)
                                > so
                                > > reflux can only be controlled between 100-50%. At the 50% state,
                                > half
                                > > goes up and half goes to the product condenser. With valve closed,
                                > > 100% goes up and gets refluxed.
                                > >
                                > > Cheers,
                                > > Lindsay.
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • morganfield1
                                Actually, I make whiskeys, rum, and other flavored drinks. What I d like to achieve is about a solid 80% on the first run, and save me the time waiting for a
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 5 4:25 PM
                                  Actually, I make whiskeys, rum, and other flavored drinks. What I'd
                                  like to achieve is about a solid 80% on the first run, and save me the
                                  time waiting for a second boil up. I found myself a nice piece of 1/8th
                                  inch (about 4mm) copper tubing and wound up a nice little (about 4 in.)
                                  reflux coil to hang in my column, thru the top cap. I don't plan to
                                  have the top open, as I don't believe the coil is big enough to totally
                                  condense the vapors. The column is open to air thru the lyne arm. Any
                                  recomendations would be aprieciated. Thanks,
                                  Tip one, Morgan

                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                                  <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > RM is best used for neutral alcohol. If that's what you are after I
                                  > recommend you go to ARC straight away. Similar principle as with RM
                                  > but you don't need to fiddle with valves as it's fully automatic.
                                  >
                                  > - Riku
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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