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I think i messed up!!!

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  • chaserfast
    When i made my runs i did not throw out the first couple of ounces. I then put it in my charred barrel. IT has been there for about 1 1/2 months. Should i run
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 11, 2005
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      When i made my runs i did not throw out the first couple of ounces.
      I then put it in my charred barrel. IT has been there for about 1 1/2
      months. Should i run it through my still again.
      Another question that i have is how long should i let it sit in my
      barrel. Does the size of the barrel effect the time it should be left
      in there.
    • emailbenja
      the methanol you should have thrown away is a lighter compound than the ethanol you want to drink, so should disperse quicker than the ethanol through the
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 11, 2005
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        the methanol you should have thrown away is a lighter compound than
        the ethanol you want to drink, so should disperse quicker than the
        ethanol through the wood. Depending on your climate, it could take a
        while (the "angels share" is typically 2-3% per year), but i doubt you
        will get it all out this way. Bear in mind most forms of alcohol have
        some methanol in them anyway (beer, wine etc), but you will die of
        alcohol poisoning before the methanol gets you. Most people would tell
        you to redistill, but you will loose 1 1/2 months of tasty oak flavour
        if you do.
        On the topic of barrel size, yes size does effect how long it needs to
        be there- the surface area exposed to the alcohol is much higher in
        smaller barrels. What strength are you barreling at? 55% is the best
        for oak extraction. Also, what did you put in the barrel? typically a
        sugar wash has less methanol than say a grain wash.
        My advice would be to drill another hole where the bung is now and put
        a tap in there, then tip the barrel upright and fit another bung on
        top. this way, you can drink the stuff in the barrel, and top it up as
        you do, This was traditional many years ago with scots for their
        whisky- it keeps the oak at a constant(ish) level throughout many
        refills, and immediatly adds oak to the fresh spirit. This will also
        eventually dilute the methanol too.
        If you do drink it, bear in mind that the methanol will only make up
        about 1% of the total product, assuming its a 5L barrel.
        Guess its up to you- it wont kill you.
        as for how long to leave it in the barrel, its up to you too. try it
        and see if you like it- if not leave it longer- there is no hard and
        fast rule here.


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chaserfast" <chaserfast@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > When i made my runs i did not throw out the first couple of ounces.
        > I then put it in my charred barrel. IT has been there for about 1 1/2
        > months. Should i run it through my still again.
        > Another question that i have is how long should i let it sit in my
        > barrel. Does the size of the barrel effect the time it should be left
        > in there.
        >
      • will butler
        um, i personally would start again. you know all those stories about moonshine making you blind? this is where it comes from. the first 100ml or so of your
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 12, 2005
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          um, i personally would start again. you know all those stories about
          moonshine making you blind? this is where it comes from. the first
          100ml or so of your distillate is high in methanol, and methanol is a
          paticularly effective optic nerve poison. there is metanol in all
          booze, but a very tiny amount. it is up to you to decide whether you
          want to risk it being a small enough amount, but personally id start
          over.
          cheers
          will.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "chaserfast" <chaserfast@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > When i made my runs i did not throw out the first couple of ounces.
          > I then put it in my charred barrel. IT has been there for about 1
          1/2
          > months. Should i run it through my still again.
          > Another question that i have is how long should i let it sit in my
          > barrel. Does the size of the barrel effect the time it should be
          left
          > in there.
          >
        • ethanol101@aol.com
          In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:42:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jesta_187@yahoo.co.uk writes: um, i personally would start again. you know all those stories
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 12, 2005
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            In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:42:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            jesta_187@... writes:

            um, i personally would start again. you know all those stories about
            moonshine making you blind? this is where it comes from. the first
            100ml or so of your distillate is high in methanol, and methanol is a
            paticularly effective optic nerve poison. there is metanol in all
            booze, but a very tiny amount. it is up to you to decide whether you
            want to risk it being a small enough amount, but personally id start
            over.
            cheers
            will.



            Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that a pure sugar
            wash shouldn't have any methanol in it at all, But I still discard the first 50
            ml or so.

            Ethanol102


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • will butler
            now that i m not sure about, but i certainly dont see any reason why there wouldnt be! hmmm, curiouser and curiouser..... ... sugar ... the first 50
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 12, 2005
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              now that i'm not sure about, but i certainly dont see any reason why
              there wouldnt be! hmmm, curiouser and curiouser.....


              > Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that a pure
              sugar
              > wash shouldn't have any methanol in it at all, But I still discard
              the first 50
              > ml or so.
              >
              > Ethanol102
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Harry
              ... pure sugar ... the first 50 ... You are quite correct. Methanol comes from washes containing pectins (grapes, some other fruits, to a lesser extent
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 12, 2005
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, ethanol101@a... wrote:

                >
                > Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that a
                pure sugar
                > wash shouldn't have any methanol in it at all, But I still discard
                the first 50
                > ml or so.
                >
                > Ethanol102


                You are quite correct. Methanol comes from washes containing
                pectins (grapes, some other fruits, to a lesser extent grains).
                Sugar washes shouldn't have any methanol. The reason we toss the
                first fraction is to eliminate the ethyl acetate esters. I think
                people are getting confused between the two.


                The principal components of fruits and grains can be classified
                into three groups: 1. water 2. solids/insolubles 3. soluble
                constituents. The water content of fresh fruit is normally between
                80 and 85% while in grains it is usually less than 20%. The solid,
                insoluble constituents such as stems, shells, cores, stones and
                protopectin are less important for distillation; they remain as
                residue in the still. Hexanol can be obtained from the stem and
                leafs in the mash which can lead to undesirable leafy flavor. In
                practice it is necessary to remove, for example, the leaves and
                stems of cherries before marinating. The "cement substance"
                protopectin will be decomposed during ripening or storage through
                enzymes (softening of fruits); also, the poisonous methyl alcohol
                (methanol) can be produced through further decomposition of pectin.


                Methanol is sometimes drunk mistakenly or intentionally as a
                substitute for grain alcohol (ethanol). Its presence in blood and
                body fluids can cause osmolality and electrolyte disturbance leading
                to toxic effects. Of greatest concern is the fact that methanol is
                metabolized to formaldehyde, a highly toxic chemical that can damage
                the optic nerve causing blindness, the liver and the kidneys
                potentially causing death.


                Oddly enough, the treatment for methanol poisoning is intravenous
                infusion of grain alcohol (ethanol). Since ethanol is metabolized by
                the same enzyme in the liver that converts methanol to formaldehyde,
                the production of formaldehyde is slowed down to a rate at which the
                body can dispose of it in the urine or through other less common
                chemical reactions.



                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • sonum norbu
                Interesting post Harry. thanks blanikdog ... From: Harry To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [new_distillers] Re: I think i messed up!!! Date: Wed, 12
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 12, 2005
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                  Interesting post Harry. thanks blanikdog

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Harry
                  To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: I think i messed up!!!
                  Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:52:27 -0000

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, ethanol101@a... wrote:

                  >
                  > Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was that a
                  pure sugar
                  > wash shouldn't have any methanol in it at all, But I still discard
                  the first 50
                  > ml or so.
                  >
                  > Ethanol102


                  You are quite correct. Methanol comes from washes containing
                  pectins (grapes, some other fruits, to a lesser extent grains).
                  Sugar washes shouldn't have any methanol. The reason we toss the
                  first fraction is to eliminate the ethyl acetate esters. I think
                  people are getting confused between the two.


                  The principal components of fruits and grains can be classified
                  into three groups: 1. water 2. solids/insolubles 3. soluble
                  constituents. The water content of fresh fruit is normally between
                  80 and 85% while in grains it is usually less than 20%. The solid,
                  insoluble constituents such as stems, shells, cores, stones and
                  protopectin are less important for distillation; they remain as
                  residue in the still. Hexanol can be obtained from the stem and
                  leafs in the mash which can lead to undesirable leafy flavor. In
                  practice it is necessary to remove, for example, the leaves and
                  stems of cherries before marinating. The "cement substance"
                  protopectin will be decomposed during ripening or storage through
                  enzymes (softening of fruits); also, the poisonous methyl alcohol
                  (methanol) can be produced through further decomposition of pectin.


                  Methanol is sometimes drunk mistakenly or intentionally as a
                  substitute for grain alcohol (ethanol). Its presence in blood and
                  body fluids can cause osmolality and electrolyte disturbance leading
                  to toxic effects. Of greatest concern is the fact that methanol is
                  metabolized to formaldehyde, a highly toxic chemical that can damage
                  the optic nerve causing blindness, the liver and the kidneys
                  potentially causing death.


                  Oddly enough, the treatment for methanol poisoning is intravenous
                  infusion of grain alcohol (ethanol). Since ethanol is metabolized by
                  the same enzyme in the liver that converts methanol to formaldehyde,
                  the production of formaldehyde is slowed down to a rate at which the
                  body can dispose of it in the urine or through other less common
                  chemical reactions.



                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry





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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Brendan Keith
                  No, the stories came from prohibition days when bootleggers would mix in methanol, cleaning fluids, whatever they could find to stretch a batch. Even if you
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 13, 2005
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                    No, the stories came from prohibition days when bootleggers would mix in
                    methanol, cleaning fluids, whatever they could find to stretch a batch.

                    Even if you left all the methanol in from a distilling run, it would still
                    be miniscule. Depends on your source wash, too.

                    --
                    Brendan Keith
                    bkeith@...



                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of will butler
                    > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:39 PM
                    > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: I think i messed up!!!
                    >
                    >
                    > um, i personally would start again. you know all those stories about
                    > moonshine making you blind? this is where it comes from.
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