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Re: [new_distillers] Re: weird happenings with mash

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  • Robert Thomas
    Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2 fermenters? Currently I guess. How about mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that between them?
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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      Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
      fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
      mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that
      between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
      kill/stun the yeast?
      Rob.

      --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com,
      > jmsmckenna@a... wrote:
      > > i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre
      > batches,they were
      > made
      > > using exactly the same usin same yeast,after
      > slightly more than
      > two weeks one of
      > > them was ready an had stopped bubblin but the
      > other one is still
      > bubblin away
      > > merrily after another week an looks like it could
      > be another
      > week,wots
      > > happenin
      >
      >
      >
      > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one
      > than in the other.
      > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos. Another
      > cause is people
      > who 'split' a pack of pre-pack yeast and pitch two
      > fermenters. It's
      > almost impossible to get equal amounts of yeast
      > spores and nutrient
      > into both.
      >
      > There's also a possibility of a secondary
      > fermentation through
      > bacterial activity in one fermenter but not the
      > other, IOW
      > contamination.
      >
      >
      > Slainte!
      > regards Harry
      >
      >
      >




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    • Harry
      ... If it were dissolved in a volume of wort and pitched 50/50 immediately, it would be far better than trying to get it right as a dry ingredient. However,
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
        <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
        > Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
        > fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
        > mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that
        > between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
        > kill/stun the yeast?
        > Rob.



        If it were dissolved in a volume of wort and pitched 50/50
        immediately, it would be far better than trying to get it right as a
        dry ingredient. However, you've still got the problem of the
        fermenters possibly running out of nutrients before the ferment is
        done. You could of course add extra nutrients, but then you defeat
        the purpose of the split, which is trying to save a few dollars on
        yeast. Too much trouble, and not worth the agro in my book.

        While you're thinking about it, have an Italian coffee on me...
        http://www.cartoline.it/pics/_zoom_flash.htm?
        immagine=scherzi_150404_01


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • Robert Thomas
        So you are drinking Irish coffee? Or no coffee in the mix at all? This link works: http://tinyurl.com/3qd8o Cheers Rob. p.s. it was funny though. ...
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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          So you are drinking Irish coffee? Or no coffee in the
          mix at all? This link works:
          http://tinyurl.com/3qd8o
          Cheers
          Rob.
          p.s. it was funny though.


          --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
          >
          > <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
          > > Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
          > > fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
          > > mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding
          > that
          > > between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
          > > kill/stun the yeast?
          > > Rob.
          >
          >
          >
          > If it were dissolved in a volume of wort and pitched
          > 50/50
          > immediately, it would be far better than trying to
          > get it right as a
          > dry ingredient. However, you've still got the
          > problem of the
          > fermenters possibly running out of nutrients before
          > the ferment is
          > done. You could of course add extra nutrients, but
          > then you defeat
          > the purpose of the split, which is trying to save a
          > few dollars on
          > yeast. Too much trouble, and not worth the agro in
          > my book.
          >
          > While you're thinking about it, have an Italian
          > coffee on me...
          > http://www.cartoline.it/pics/_zoom_flash.htm?
          > immagine=scherzi_150404_01
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          >
          >




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        • Roderick Holmes
          I have the same thing happen some times. Few things could affect this: -The temperature of the sugar solution when you pitched the yeast. If you pitch it when
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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            I have the same thing happen some times. Few things could affect this:

            -The temperature of the sugar solution when you pitched the yeast. If you pitch it when the wash is still warm, it seems to take off much faster and ferment quicker vs. if you pitch into a cold wash. I found this out because one batch I aerated overnight, the other I pitched warm right away without aeration. The initial colony gets a big boost if pitched into a warm wash.

            -The ambient termperature of where you have the fermentation vats. Are they in the same room together?

            -Sugar concentration. Did you take a specific gravity reading of both washes to confirm the sugar level is the same. The one with more sugar will take more time. Can't tell you how many times I lost count of how many scoops of sugar I put in and guessed.

            -yeast: did you dissolve the yeast in water first or pitch it dry? If you dissolved the yeast in too warm water, in one batch, it could have cut the viable yeast down in one batch.

            This is all I can think of off the top of my head.

            Warm regards on ice,
            Roderick

            jmsmckenna@... wrote:
            i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre batches,they were made
            using exactly the same usin same yeast,after slightly more than two weeks one of
            them was ready an had stopped bubblin but the other one is still bubblin away
            merrily after another week an looks like it could be another week,wots
            happenin


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          • jmsmckenna@aol.com
            both washes were made at same time using 8 one kilo bags of sugar then left overnite to cool downthey were then topped up with water to the requires level just
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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              both washes were made at same time using 8 one kilo bags of sugar then left
              overnite to cool downthey were then topped up with water to the requires level
              just to aid the cooling process coz we are havin a sorta heatwave at minthen
              there was one packet of yeast added to each,dry an aerated ,thats all i
              know,when the last one was distilled i got 5 1/2 litres of 93% an it was damned
              good stuff,i know this one will be ok when its done but i was just wonderin
              bout the time discrepancy


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • pguy40
              ... Harry, I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched yeast this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of activity. My
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the other.
                > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos.

                Harry,

                I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched yeast
                this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of
                activity. My sugar washes always bubbled vigorously, I can barely
                detect any bubbling at all in this. I do think it's fermenting because
                about half the grain has now risen to the surface and the room smells
                like I'm baking bread.

                Could my packet of turbo be bad? Should I add another packet? Maybe
                this minimal activity is normal?

                TIA
                Peter
              • go_stiller
                Hi Rob The best way I found was to add 16 kg sugar to large container and top to 50-litre mark with hot water and mix well. When cool separate 25 litres to
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                  Hi Rob
                  The best way I found was to add 16 kg sugar to large container and top
                  to 50-litre mark with hot water and mix well. When cool separate 25
                  litres to second container and test SG should be 1.130. In original
                  stir very well to aerate and add 48 turbo pack, after 2 days when
                  bubbling well, do next part. In other 25 litres add 1 desert spoon
                  vegemite & 1 cup molasses mixing very well. I add this through the day
                  about 2 litres at a time back to first container, takes about 16 days
                  at 22C degrees and the end SG is 990.


                  JW




                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
                  <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
                  > Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
                  > fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
                  > mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that
                  > between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
                  > kill/stun the yeast?
                  > Rob.
                • Harry
                  ... other. ... yeast ... because ... smells ... Maybe ... Could be many things. Did you use sprouted wheat?, or barley? Wheat sometimes gives poor conversion.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...> wrote:
                    > > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the
                    other.
                    > > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos.
                    >
                    > Harry,
                    >
                    > I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched
                    yeast
                    > this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of
                    > activity. My sugar washes always bubbled vigorously, I can barely
                    > detect any bubbling at all in this. I do think it's fermenting
                    because
                    > about half the grain has now risen to the surface and the room
                    smells
                    > like I'm baking bread.
                    >
                    > Could my packet of turbo be bad? Should I add another packet?
                    Maybe
                    > this minimal activity is normal?
                    >
                    > TIA
                    > Peter


                    Could be many things. Did you use sprouted wheat?, or barley?
                    Wheat sometimes gives poor conversion.
                    I assume you had everything else right such as...
                    Iodine test for conversion.
                    OSG recorded.
                    pH between 4 and 5.
                    Pitching temp ~25°C.

                    If all that was right, then give it up to 24hrs. If the activity
                    doesn't improve, repitch with fresh yeast. That's about all I can
                    offer. Sven is the man to talk to on all-grain mashes. He may know
                    some other angles.


                    Slainte!
                    regards Harry
                  • Mark
                    ... barely ... know ... I ve had a couple of wheat mashes stick on me when I deviate from standard beer making procedures. For me, safest way is to use at
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > > > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the
                      > other.
                      > > > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos.
                      > >
                      > > Harry,
                      > >
                      > > I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched
                      > yeast
                      > > this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of
                      > > activity. My sugar washes always bubbled vigorously, I can
                      barely
                      > > detect any bubbling at all in this. I do think it's fermenting
                      > because
                      > > about half the grain has now risen to the surface and the room
                      > smells
                      > > like I'm baking bread.
                      > >
                      > > Could my packet of turbo be bad? Should I add another packet?
                      > Maybe
                      > > this minimal activity is normal?
                      > >
                      > > TIA
                      > > Peter
                      >
                      >
                      > Could be many things. Did you use sprouted wheat?, or barley?
                      > Wheat sometimes gives poor conversion.
                      > I assume you had everything else right such as...
                      > Iodine test for conversion.
                      > OSG recorded.
                      > pH between 4 and 5.
                      > Pitching temp ~25°C.
                      >
                      > If all that was right, then give it up to 24hrs. If the activity
                      > doesn't improve, repitch with fresh yeast. That's about all I can
                      > offer. Sven is the man to talk to on all-grain mashes. He may
                      know
                      > some other angles.
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry

                      I've had a couple of wheat mashes stick on me when I deviate
                      from "standard" beer making procedures. For me, safest way is to
                      use at least 35% 6 row high enzyme barley, and hold conversion
                      temperature for 3 hours with a mash out. I make a yeast starter, and
                      aquarium pump in air for 12 hours minimum. I batch sparge, if that
                      matters.

                      Wheat sure makes a good whiskey, though. It's worth the hassle.

                      Mark
                    • pguy40
                      ... and ... I used malted wheat, it seems to be working fine now, it just took a while for those yeasties to become aroused :-) Everything went real well, had
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 2, 2005
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                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        >>
                        > I've had a couple of wheat mashes stick on me when I deviate
                        > from "standard" beer making procedures. For me, safest way is to
                        > use at least 35% 6 row high enzyme barley, and hold conversion
                        > temperature for 3 hours with a mash out. I make a yeast starter,
                        and
                        > aquarium pump in air for 12 hours minimum. I batch sparge, if that
                        > matters.
                        >
                        > Wheat sure makes a good whiskey, though. It's worth the hassle.
                        >
                        > Mark

                        I used malted wheat, it seems to be working fine now, it just took a
                        while for those yeasties to become aroused :-)

                        Everything went real well, had a good conversion, pumped air for 30
                        minutes before pitching yeast. First 6 hours showed little activity.
                        Now 24 hours later it's bubbling fairly aggressively.

                        Thanks all,
                        peter
                      • Mark
                        ... Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity? And if you can, I d like to know what the final / terminal specific gravity is. Oh, and
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 5, 2005
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                          > I used malted wheat, it seems to be working fine now, it just took a
                          > while for those yeasties to become aroused :-)
                          >
                          > Everything went real well, had a good conversion, pumped air for 30
                          > minutes before pitching yeast. First 6 hours showed little activity.
                          > Now 24 hours later it's bubbling fairly aggressively.
                          >
                          > Thanks all,
                          > peter

                          Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity? And
                          if you can, I'd like to know what the final / terminal specific
                          gravity is. Oh, and how many pounds/kg's of wheat did you use?

                          Mark
                        • pguy40
                          ... OG 1.048 FG 1.016 It may not have been done fermenting, I ended up with about 5% alc out of the wash (72 hours after pitching yeast). I used about 9 lbs of
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 7, 2005
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                            > Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity? And
                            > if you can, I'd like to know what the final / terminal specific
                            > gravity is. Oh, and how many pounds/kg's of wheat did you use?
                            >
                            > Mark

                            OG 1.048 FG 1.016 It may not have been done fermenting, I ended up with
                            about 5% alc out of the wash (72 hours after pitching yeast). I used
                            about 9 lbs of wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt.

                            Peter
                          • Mark
                            ... And ... with ... Comparing it to a conventional wheat home brew beer: For a 5 GAL BATCH : 2.5LB lager malt 5 LB wheat malt you should get an original
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 7, 2005
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                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...> wrote:
                              > > Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity?
                              And
                              > > if you can, I'd like to know what the final / terminal specific
                              > > gravity is. Oh, and how many pounds/kg's of wheat did you use?
                              > >
                              > > Mark
                              >
                              > OG 1.048 FG 1.016 It may not have been done fermenting, I ended up
                              with
                              > about 5% alc out of the wash (72 hours after pitching yeast). I used
                              > about 9 lbs of wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt.
                              >
                              > Peter

                              Comparing it to a conventional wheat home brew beer:
                              For a "5 GAL BATCH":
                              2.5LB lager malt
                              5 LB wheat malt
                              you should get an original gravity of around 1.048, and after
                              fermentation a final gravity of around 1.013.

                              The lager malt in the above recipe is necessary to provide conversion
                              enzymes. I don't understand how 9 lb wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt
                              converted to fermentable sugars.

                              Malted wheat is something like 38 points/pound/gal assuming good
                              decent mash & sparging techniques. 1 pound of malted wheat should
                              provide a gravity of 1.038 in a 1 gal batch. But wheat malt won't
                              convert itself (starch to sugar).
                            • pguy40
                              ... Not sure how it works myself, but I did it based on an Ian Smiley recipe for an all wheat vodka. I think you can find it somewhere on brewhaus.com Peter
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                                > Comparing it to a conventional wheat home brew beer:
                                > For a "5 GAL BATCH":
                                > 2.5LB lager malt
                                > 5 LB wheat malt
                                > you should get an original gravity of around 1.048, and after
                                > fermentation a final gravity of around 1.013.
                                >
                                > The lager malt in the above recipe is necessary to provide conversion
                                > enzymes. I don't understand how 9 lb wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt
                                > converted to fermentable sugars.
                                >
                                > Malted wheat is something like 38 points/pound/gal assuming good
                                > decent mash & sparging techniques. 1 pound of malted wheat should
                                > provide a gravity of 1.038 in a 1 gal batch. But wheat malt won't
                                > convert itself (starch to sugar).

                                Not sure how it works myself, but I did it based on an Ian Smiley
                                recipe for an all wheat vodka. I think you can find it somewhere on
                                brewhaus.com

                                Peter
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